Too much effort in not getting caught

[Sub]

This is rhe scary thing for me. NOTHING IS DIFFERENT. There is just this big dark elephant of a secret in the room

 

The word "scary" definitely applies. Remembering the day I found out: I caught on in the morning by seeing an email from the OM that was CLEARLY evidence of the A. My WW was able to talk her way out of it, probably aided by my just wanting to not believe it at the time. We spent the day out at various social functions. I would look over at her from time to time, and she looked completely unfazed. Like you said, nothing was different. I feel like I would be sh*tting a brick if such a crack emerged in the facade. But she was completely content. My curiosity got the best of me, we got home later and I snooped around on her iPod to confirm my suspicions. In retrospect, though, her ability to be "normal" in the face of such a potential disaster was at the same time admirable and frightening.

[fellini]

It's not about agreeing to disagree.

I responded to this:

I think that most cheaters

are just people who aren't well grounded and who have issues with accepting reality.

 

And I am perfectly willing to accept what your H did, he did. And the same to GettingSTronger.

 

What I don't accept is that the two experiences define all cheaters, not even remotely close to the majority of cheaters.

 

I know Ive only been in here a year and a half, but I cannot deny the stories of literally hundreds of BS posters whose DDAY took them completely for surprsise: some 6, 8 months, some A's that went on for years, and some DDay's that came huge numbers of years after the A ended.

 

I can only surmise from all these stories that the WS was able to create a home environment in which as far as the BS was concerned, the WS was behaving more or less NORMAL.

 

In my case, my WS was in love with her AP for over a year. They were in an EA for 8 months, and a PA for 6 weeks. I never suspected anything. Things seemed ultra normal at home. I became aware of their A by pure luck.

 

 

 

Okay, well that wasn't my experience as a BS.

 

My H went off the deep end once he got entrenched in his A. His work suffered because he spent so much time communicating with OW (a work colleague) during work hours. Obviously that is not example of handling life properly. He was pretty nasty with me at times and did a lot of things just completely out of character for him.

 

So, there was plenty different in my H's affair. It wasn't all smooth on the surface that is for sure.

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

 

I would find it very disturbing if someone can cheat and hide it so well that no one on the outside could detect it. I know there are cases where the WS is so good at hiding it that no one knows but since that wasn't my situation I can't speak to that. All I can speak to is the cases where there are obvious changes.

Edited June 13, 2014 by fellini

[fellini]

I hear you. I think what allowed my WS to be soooo calm and cool about her meetups behind my back was her AP was a single, divorced man. So at no time was she worried if he had a BS back at home. They both needed the secrecy because of work issues, but she knew she could trust him not to screw up at his end. But when I asked an innocent question about something I had seen on her ipad, the house of cards came down.

 

 

 

The word "scary" definitely applies. Remembering the day I found out: I caught on in the morning by seeing an email from the OM that was CLEARLY evidence of the A. My WW was able to talk her way out of it, probably aided by my just wanting to not believe it at the time. We spent the day out at various social functions. I would look over at her from time to time, and she looked completely unfazed. Like you said, nothing was different. I feel like I would be sh*tting a brick if such a crack emerged in the facade. But she was completely content. My curiosity got the best of me, we got home later and I snooped around on her iPod to confirm my suspicions. In retrospect, though, her ability to be "normal" in the face of such a potential disaster was at the same time admirable and frightening.

[Snowflower]

It's not about agreeing to disagree.

I responded to this:

I think that most cheaters

are just people who aren't well grounded and who have issues with accepting reality.

 

And I am perfectly willing to accept what your H did, he did. And the same to GettingSTronger.

 

What I don't accept is that the two experiences define all cheaters, not even remotely close to the majority of cheaters.

 

I know Ive only been in here a year and a half, but I cannot deny the stories of literally hundreds of BS posters whose DDAY took them completely for surprsise: some 6, 8 months, some A's that went on for years, and some DDay's that came huge numbers of years after the A ended.

 

Nah, we can agree to disagree.

 

Because I've read here for 5 years and I've seen more stories like mine.

 

My H acted like a complete jerk for a few months while he was in his A, like many WS. You know what? I was still in shock when I found out he had an A. Like you say, I was taken completely by surprise!

 

So just because a BS has been taken by surprise doesn't necessarily mean that is because their WS was acting all normal and hiding things well.

 

No, they were taken by surprise because they trusted their WS and that despite the nasty/weird behavior that their WS displayed, the BS (like me) still trusted that their spouse would NEVER do something that despicable.

 

Some are better at not getting caught straight out which was the OP of this thread but many just start behaving oddly. However that faith and trust that the BS still has can make a BS not jump to the scenario of cheating.

 

Many BS's here did initially attribute their WS's behavior as job stress or a MLC or general unhappiness.

 

Because we trusted our spouses, we didn't automatically think they were cheating on us.

 

Hence, the surprise when we find out the truth.

[Charlie Harper]

There is nothing worse that to discover an A after the fact and seeing your S having the cold blood and character to hide it from you, when you had 150% trust in your WS.

 

Its frightening, because your begin to wonder how much I DONT KNOW / I DID NOT EVEN REGISTER.

 

Persons who can live 2 lives...

[gettingstronger]

My experience here, in real life and in therapy and group therapy has been mike sunflowers, changes for sure but as trusting spouses were never related to cheating. It's the furthest thing from our minds. I'm not looking to agree to disagree, I'm just not bold enough to say what I think applies to most or endlessly argue. That statement just seems so off to me.

[Sub]

I hear you. I think what allowed my WS to be soooo calm and cool about her meetups behind my back was her AP was a single, divorced man. So at no time was she worried if he had a BS back at home.

 

Yes, the OM in my case was in the middle of divorcing, living by himself in an apt. WW would leave under the guise of getting away to clear her head and spend the night with a female friend who lived close to him. He had a lot of input into how she should proceed with me, as this wasn't his first time at the rodeo. What added to the mindf**k was when she said to me, post-discovery:"When I would leave the house, part of me wanted to hear you tell me not to go."

[fellini]

OKay I stand corrected. The majority, according to the poster, of A's:

 

I think that most cheaters are just people who aren't well grounded and

who have issues with accepting reality

. They look for an escape from the harsh reality of life and the many unpleasant responsibilities it brings.

They want to get lost in a different world, a

phantasy world.

Kind of like strip club addicts or alcoholics

, or people who have other addictions to get a quick fix and lose themselves in a different world that's not real. And because

they are afraid or reality

,

they're also afraid of the unpleasant consequences

if they get caught. Hence, the dishonesty and

endless efforts to hide their tracks

. Because being found out would just add to the responsibilities and more work would have to be done in the real part of their life. Be it a divorce or reading up or being accountable or going to

mc

, the list goes on.......just more unpleasant things to deal with.

And that's what they're running away from in the first place

. That's why when they're found out they'd rather sugarcoat and ignore the hurt they've caused and move on quickly, trying to avoid the subject altogether.

All too unpleasant, too unfunny, too serious. Too much work and effort.

 

I believe that

most affair prone people have signs of an addictive personality

. And the substance they're addicted to can be anything.

Booze, hot chicks, attention, drugs, you name it. It's just an escape

.

 

Alcoholics hide the fact they're alcoholics, and they make a really strong effort to do

so

, in order to avoid the consequences.

So

do cheaters

.

It's the weak people

that can't cope with reality that get caught in those addictions, and the

weak are the hardest to deal with, because they don't properly deal with themselves

, their own issues and therefore are hard to pin down.

They're like playdoh

- what ever it takes to avoid confrontation, they will do it,

they'll change their shape and size, just to weasel themselves out if it

......... That's where the lies come from. Just my 2 cents.

 

Never mind the enormous contradictions in the poster about the WS being capable, but highly capable, rigorous and detailed, but without energy or bother, hiding but cameleons.

 

 

 

Nah, we can agree to disagree.

 

Because I've read here for 5 years and I've seen more stories like mine.

 

My H acted like a complete jerk for a few months while he was in his A, like many WS. You know what? I was still in shock when I found out he had an A. Like you say, I was taken completely by surprise!

 

So just because a BS has been taken by surprise doesn't necessarily mean that is because their WS was acting all normal and hiding things well.

 

No, they were taken by surprise because they trusted their WS and that despite the nasty/weird behavior that their WS displayed, the BS (like me) still trusted that their spouse would NEVER do something that despicable.

 

Some are better at not getting caught straight out which was the OP of this thread but many just start behaving oddly. However that faith and trust that the BS still has can make a BS not jump to the scenario of cheating.

 

Many BS's here did initially attribute their WS's behavior as job stress or a MLC or general unhappiness.

 

Because we trusted our spouses, we didn't automatically think they were cheating on us.

 

Hence, the surprise when we find out the truth.

[fellini]

Yes, the OM in my case was in the middle of divorcing, living by himself in an apt. WW would leave under the guise of getting away to clear her head and spend the night with a female friend who lived close to him. He had a lot of input into how she should proceed with me, as this wasn't his first time at the rodeo. What added to the mindf**k was when she said to me, post-discovery:"When I would leave the house, part of me wanted to hear you tell me not to go."

 

OH that is a cruel thing to say! Well in my case she could not spend, nor had had enough time to start to spend nights. HE was trying to move her out of her marriage for sure though. He too had been through this, but on the receiving end, having lost his own W three years previously to a WW and her AP. THe thing is, he tried a year of reconciliation with his WS, and ultimately lost her, and he talked to my WS about what I was going to go through not if, but when I found out. And about our child, but neither of them felt bad enough to act on this. Similar stories for sure. Ill see if I can trace your back tracks.

[HermioneG]

To both previous posts.

 

Imho the ONLY place that cheaters dont handle life properly is in Hiding their second relationship. I my experience they have NO deficiencies outside of their desire to keep the AFFAIR going as long as it suits them. Nothing else about their coping skills or daily life changes.

 

This is rhe scary thing for me. NOTHING IS DIFFERENT. There is just this big dark elephant of a secret in the room

 

So having an affair is a place where they handle life properly?

 

Whatnow?

 

Lies and deception and never a proper handling of a situation for a healthy individual.

[HermioneG]

Yes, the OM in my case was in the middle of divorcing, living by himself in an apt. WW would leave under the guise of getting away to clear her head and spend the night with a female friend who lived close to him. He had a lot of input into how she should proceed with me, as this wasn't his first time at the rodeo. What added to the mindf**k was when she said to me, post-discovery:"When I would leave the house, part of me wanted to hear you tell me not to go."

 

My spouse said the same.

 

It can all feel like script sometimes, eh?

[HermioneG]

I agree- there were changes I just did not relate the two-why would I? I had no idea how internally weak he was-I would not fathom he would chose that path-thats not the man I knew, its also not the man he wanted to be but he was that person-

 

Just because my husband was able to use my trust and faith against me by being able to deceive me does not mean there were no changes-

 

I think perspective comes from our back story and experiences-some posts/thoughts I can relate to, some I understand but disagree with and some posters I think are just flat out full of it when it comes to their back story so their posts almost never, ever resonate with me-

 

Yes. And there is a psychological bias to trust the people we have intimate relationships with- to put a fine point on it, the more we love someone, the easier it is to accept lies and excuse behavior.

 

https://www.msu.edu/~levinet/deception.htm

[Spark1111]

I think the last 10 posts represent the many aspects of an affair and what a BS feels, suspects, intuits.....and the many reasons a WS perpetrates the deception.

 

My fWS could be loving....but then critical, distant, cold. he could be warm and affectionate in front of family and friends....but then faraway, picking a fight, storming off or suddenly impatient.

 

All of this kept me off balance and on an uneven keel...where, instead of asking WHAT the Hell is wrong with you? I started to ask WHAT is wrong with me? With us? is he falling out of love with me? Why?

 

And his changeling hot cold behavior made me second guess my own intuition.

 

scary, scary stuff.

 

I boarded the crazy train WITH HIM. given a little time and distance --which is IMPOSSIBLE in a daily intimate long-term relationship-- I would have garnered the PERSPECTIVE to believe there is a PROBLEM here and I think, hell, I know, it is HIM and not me!

 

So I forgive myself for not surmising my situation sooner. Because when you love someone who starts to run hot, cold, distant then close.....YOU TOO begin to do the same while walking on eggshells.

 

NO ONE can deceive you like someone you love, especially when they are alternating between highs and lows and you begin to match their emotions because you hope to patient and love them back.

[fellini]

Interesting point. Although my reading in here has told me that more often than less a WS doesn't always display such dramatic swings in the daily life during the hidden phase of their affairs. In some cases even, the A is so happy in his/her affair that things at home feel better, in some respects. (IN my case during a long period there were was very little conflict between us, but definately less physical contact. None of this seemed out of the normal because we were already both living in child-centered marriage mode.

 

I think though, that in addition to what you say, there are some tensions in these last "10" or so posts which have serious implications.

 

• that people who cheat have PRIOR character defects that explains their cheating
  
• that people who cheat show incredible defects during their affairs
  
• that people who cheat can effectively hide and convince their BS's to believe their lies
  

 

The first one I simply do not buy. If this were true, it would mean that during any crises we could watch for how our SO responds, and then deduce they are ripe for an affair. i.e. it is a totally deterministic view of a cheater, and I would still believe it is a character flaw only in, the choice they make in dealing with problems in their lives. There are many other options, none of which require they face their spouse, that still do not destroy trust in the union (like taking up a hobby, join a team or club, go out more with friends, change your attitude about your work, do yoga, investigate your concept of happiness as being externally determined to being responsible for your own happiness, IC ...

 

The kind of defects that one poster expressed and which became the topic of debate afterwards is IMHO wishful thinking on the part of a BS who wants to see the person they chose to love in the worst possible light prior to having an affair only in order to explain the sudden changes in their life. Many of us here simply don't see WS's that way, although admittedly to be able to do so might bring enormous relief. (Adolph Eichmann syndrome aka Kurt Vonnegut)

 

If I accept the second premise, then I also have to accept my role in maintaining the secret. This is very painful, and probably has been very real or many people. I remember my WS did one or two very noticeable but not massive character changing things, that only after I learned about the A, could I use them to understand what was going on. For example, one day, out of the blue, she screamed at me in the car as I was driving somewhere in order to get out and let her get to work. It was not out of character to shout at me at all, but the anger and intensity of this ONE TIME made me wonder what the hell did that. So I put it down as daily STRESS, but not STRESS because she was anxious to get to work to be closer to her BF.

 

In another I was completely blindly fooled over such an innocent thing.

My WS goes swimming 4 times a weak. It is her survival activity for herself. She MUST do it. And during the 17 years of her marriage, every time we negotiated when she would "get" to go, she always told me, no not after lunch, I cant swim until 5 pm, after I have had a couple hours to digest.

 

Well on one particularly incredible day, when we were being like an amazing couple hand holding, taking in the sun, sitting with friends and having a beer, and later having a 4 some lunch, at 3:30 she said to me, Ill see you at home, Im going to go have my swim. WE had just finished eating a huge meal and were standing outside the restaurant. Something bothered me. I felt like our day had been so good for the first time in weeks, that we would be going home together, maybe take a "siesta" and let things happen. (Our daughter was off with another family for the day) So I said nothing. Turns out he had called her during the beer at 1 pm and although she couldn't call him back in front of me, she spent the next 2.5 hours only thinking about being with him in his studio apartment 4 blocks away. Because I blindly trusted everything she said, it didn't occur to me that there was no way in hell she was going to the pool at that moment. Although I now realize that even if I had called her on it, she might have had the quickness in mind to say, "Im going to take a poolside siesta first". She has never done that, so again, a lie upon a lie would probably alert me, but I was not in SH-T detection mode. I was in love.

 

I believe the issue of blind trust is more relevant to this discussion than to label the WS "capable" of making us believe the lies. We do not see the lies because of OUR predisposition to blind trust, it's not something they DO to us.

 

I stand by my thinking that anyone can cheat. You do not need existing conditions to be a cheater. That prior to cheating the majority of people are NORMAL PEOPLE. That once they cheat, yes, things change, not least of which is the moral compass which was guiding them successfully in monogamous relationships has now to be adjusted to be able to contain themselves in two relationships without having to deal with that.

 

People talk about "not dealing with stress", but I think we could also talk about "they do deal with the stress", and in terms of themselves, obviously, at least during the hidden life, more or less quite well. Enough to keep themselves in two relationships until they finally decide what will be the next step, if they even get there.

 

It is also my experience that cheaters are not experts at deception, because if they were, they wouldn't be using cell phones, email, FB, their cars, their visas, etc. to connect with their AP. I believe they believe they won't get caught on any given day, but the fear of getting caught whether it exists or not, does not seem to get them to "cover their tracks" as well as some posters here imply. Of course I expect a serial cheater, or multiple cheater, to be better equipped to cheat.

 

 

 

I think the last 10 posts represent the many aspects of an affair and what a BS feels, suspects, intuits.....and the many reasons a WS perpetrates the deception.

 

My fWS could be loving....but then critical, distant, cold. he could be warm and affectionate in front of family and friends....but then faraway, picking a fight, storming off or suddenly impatient.

 

All of this kept me off balance and on an uneven keel...where, instead of asking WHAT the Hell is wrong with you? I started to ask WHAT is wrong with me? With us? is he falling out of love with me? Why?

 

And his changeling hot cold behavior made me second guess my own intuition.

 

scary, scary stuff.

 

I boarded the crazy train WITH HIM. given a little time and distance --which is IMPOSSIBLE in a daily intimate long-term relationship-- I would have garnered the PERSPECTIVE to believe there is a PROBLEM here and I think, hell, I know, it is HIM and not me!

 

So I forgive myself for not surmising my situation sooner. Because when you love someone who starts to run hot, cold, distant then close.....YOU TOO begin to do the same while walking on eggshells.

 

NO ONE can deceive you like someone you love, especially when they are alternating between highs and lows and you begin to match their emotions because you hope to patient and love them back.

Edited June 14, 2014 by fellini

[HereNorThere]

OP, a harsh reality is than unless you are cheater, you may never fully understand. There's a percentage of people that believe everyone is capable of it and I am not one of them. The thought of myself or the woman I love sharing intimacies with someone else makes me cringe. I've been put in several situations where there's been mutual attraction and ample opportunity and there's just no possible way I could do it. It's not for lack of desire, it's because I know it would destroy someone I love and I couldn't live with that. I couldn't live an inauthentic life. On the flip side, I'm a risk taking, club hopping, come home when the sun goes down, crazy, fun guy with no hang ups about sex. In my opinion, it's the limited capacity for empathy sets the stage for long-term, life altering, family killing, deceptive behavoirs. Some people have it them, some people don't. Is it something that can be learned later in life? Is it a learned trait at all? Can it cured through treatment? There are no clear answers, really.

 

Now, I will leave an exemption for the drunken, ONS thing. There's room to argue that the heat of the moment, diminished mental facilities and lack of impulse control leave little time and resources to process your less primal, higher functioning parts of your brain.

Edited June 14, 2014 by HereNorThere

[Scarlet2]

It's interesting how an affair partner signs up for the "not getting caught" dynamic. Why is that???? What purpose does it really offer to the affair partner.? Perhaps there are many reasons for this, as the affair partner see's this an advantage over an unsuspecting spouse.

 

I would greatly appreciate the opinion of others as the question "why the secrecy and not getting caught" interpretations from all sides of those in the affair triangle.

 

As an OW, the purpose it offers me is so that it doesn't end. I'd rather there be no secrecy at all but the WS wants discretion for his own reasons which I'm not privy to besides the obvious so I have to abide.

 

I always wonder why some AP's talk to each other every day or even with their BS right next to them but still they don't want to get caught or you have an AP like mine where I'm lucky if I get a two word text once a week. Why are some seemingly carefree and others too strict? Maybe it's because I know his wife, boss, kids, and pastor, and therefore easier to get discovered? Which one loves their spouse the most? Which one doesn't want to get caught the most?

 

If the WS doesn't REALLY want to get caught, they shouldn't do it in the first place. I'm single and can't get caught, but it CAN end. Everyone that knows me, with the exception of the aforementioned, knows I'm in a triangle. There's no secrecy on my side.

[Furious]

As an OW, the purpose it offers me is so that it doesn't end. I'd rather there be no secrecy at all but the WS wants discretion for his own reasons which I'm not privy to besides the obvious so I have to abide.

 

 

Scarlet2

 

Gently.....because I feel you're vulnerable, in the sense you say "you have to abide" to MM's reasons which you are not privy to. This a man who is controlling you and controlling his spouse.

 

You sound like a nice person, don't you deserve better than this.

[Hope Shimmers]

Scarlet2

 

Gently.....because I feel you're vulnerable, in the sense you say "you have to abide" to MM's reasons which you are not privy to. This a man who is controlling you and controlling his spouse.

 

You sound like a nice person, don't you deserve better than this.

 

Yes, this.

 

Why do you "have to" abide to what he wants because it works for him? Is it working for you?

 

And you say you barely get a two-word text every week? What are you getting out of this?

[ConfusedMarriedOW]

Sometimes it is the belief that you are getting two totally different things from each partner and you don't want it to end for that reason alone. You love both.

 

For example: one likes to garden, the other has the same sense of humor as you, one has a knowledge of art, the other has knowledge if music, one makes you feel passionate and alive, the other makes you feel comforted and safe.

 

The reason it isn't exposed is:

A. One or more parties could be hurt

B. You likely will lose half of the equation removing one of the partners that fulfilled something your other partner did not or could not.

[Furious]

Sometimes it is the belief that you are getting two totally different things from each partner and you don't want it to end for that reason alone. You love both.

 

For example: one likes to garden, the other has the same sense of humor as you, one has a knowledge of art, the other has knowledge if music, one makes you feel passionate and alive, the other makes you feel comforted and safe.

 

The reason it isn't exposed is:

A. One or more parties could be hurt

B. You likely will lose half of the equation removing one of the partners that fulfilled something your other partner did not or could not.

 

I ask this with complete sincerity. What if you were to discover there was another Other Woman? Would you be understanding and feel the same way as you stated above. Would it be ok if your MM was getting three totally different things instead of two totally different things. Would it be ok for him to lie to you as he is lying to his spouse and he had three women instead of two.

 

If we all look outside the box, we can really see the big picture and see it from a different light.

[Spark1111]

After DDAY I hacked my fWS email......and discovered he was trawling for his OW's replacement.

 

Imagine that?

 

In the height of his mid-life crisising lunacy, he had decided his OW wasn't the ONE but lacked the courage to tel her so......so strung her along while he emailed a former high school GF he found on Classmates.com and was talking to a few other single and divorced women....

 

I attached all these questionable contact emails and sent then to his address book, especially his family who were begging me to reconcile with him....

 

Silence ensued....just like I expected it would.....

[velvette]

I think you are right on with the entitlement scenario. Most cheaters think they wont get caught because they are "smarter than the average bear" same way they are entitled to have an A to get whatever they are getting out of it. The rules simply don't apply to them.

 

I think some of the elaborate scenarios to avoid getting caught are simply a game(esp for men)to prove this. It adds to the fun. Especially, if they are resentful in some way of their spouse.

 

Its also a way to avoid consequences of their behavior as are most lies and secrets. Why would someone who claims to be unhappy in a M and unable to resolve that through communication or some other means want to deal with an angry spouse that knows they are cheating?

 

As for why the affair partner signs up for it? I was the OW to my now H. He was clear from the start he was leaving his first M. I was clear I wasn't waiting long. He left and filed for D 3 months after our A started. There was no upside to me for people knowing we were in an A(other than living honestly which I obviously did not value as much at that time). Absolutely, it was imo at that time a strategic advantage because if his W did not know about the affair there was nothing she could/would do to stop it or to influence him not to D.

[velvette]

After DDAY I hacked my fWS email......and discovered he was trawling for his OW's replacement.

 

Imagine that?

 

In the height of his mid-life crisising lunacy, he had decided his OW wasn't the ONE but lacked the courage to tel her so......so strung her along while he emailed a former high school GF he found on Classmates.com and was talking to a few other single and divorced women....

 

I attached all these questionable contact emails and sent then to his address book, especially his family who were begging me to reconcile with him....

 

Silence ensued....just like I expected it would.....

 

My H did the same sort of thing; except he was sleeping with them all or getting lunch hour oral or phone sex. I think he had 4 OW going at one time when things started going downhill with primary OW and at the same time he was trying to get me to take him back.

 

I had hacked into his email as well and had a lot of fun with Mr. Smarter than the average bear. I knew all these women and for weeks every time he called I would bring them up casually in conversation while I took notes of all the lies he told me. When I got bored with his BS, I emailed them all each others emails and nude pics.

 

They have to have a back up plan; insecure and pathologically afraid of being alone especially with themselves. As well as in my H case since he was self medicating his unresolved abuse issues with sex cant have that supply cutoff or dwindling below the necessary amount.

[Charlie Harper]

Real smart people, don't get caught... just sayin'

 

hence why I say that if the WS has no big guilt, keeps control, and can lead 2 lives with minimal problems... it wont get caught... sex addicts, compulsive liars, guilt ridden people, and stupid, emotional and high mantenieance person WILL.

[fellini]

Im not sure what you expect to get asking such a hypothetical and not so common issue question. What purpose does it serve to stretch the envelope in what is clearly a standard situation? You want to expose some kind of internal contradiction by imagining a world that doesn't exist?

 

Why stop at 3? Why not ask, what if both AP's were having sex with 5 multiple partners and some of them included same sex? I just don't understand the purpose of imagining a line of argument that is outside the parameters of what is common knowldege. Unless you or you WS did this, then the of course the best person to ask and answer would be you!

 

I ask this with complete sincerity. What if you were to discover there was another Other Woman? Would you be understanding and feel the same way as you stated above. Would it be ok if your MM was getting three totally different things instead of two totally different things. Would it be ok for him to lie to you as he is lying to his spouse and he had three women instead of two.

 

If we all look outside the box, we can really see the big picture and see it from a different light.