Wife in EA, wants to leave me for commitmentphobe

[Striver]

bigman,

 

I'll take your words into consideration. WW has various tactics that she is employing for whatever reason. To date I don't think it's much about money or the kids, mainly OM. I will admit that could change. With the kids, honestly, it could develop where I have primary custody.

 

WW continues to neglect more areas of her life. We have three kids. One is in summer school and away all day. The two others are in an activity for three hours a day. So WW has three hours a day to herself. But on two days this week, I still had to go home on my one hour break, take the babysitter (!) home, then take the kids to their activity. So on those two days she had a three hour break plus babysitter time, where I had no break at all. Moreover, one of those nights she still went out after I got home, which was less than an hour after all of the kids came home. So I had the kids for the rest of that day. I like having the kids, especially now, but her head is off in Affairyland.

 

As someone told me tonight, no one wants to have to be a grownup all of the time, I guess.

[2sunny]

Since she's not helping you by being a partner... Why not pack her one bag and have her leave?

 

Change the locks first and move most of your money.

 

She's gone - she may as well move too.

 

Then you can really hire help for the kids - help you can rely on.

[bigman1]

Striver, you are illustrating my point and missing a huge issue. You are focused on the unfairness of the daily realities of infidelity on your life yet ignoring the part that you must address. Don't complain that the furniture is out of place in the midst of the earthquake, get out of the crumbling house!

 

Next, if its about om, then take advantage of that. Get her to agree to custody, etc in your favor while she's still wrapped up with him. Failure to do so will result in you losing your wife, home, and having to schedule time to see your kids. That is the thing that will drive you crazy.

 

On the other hand, you filing may wake her up to realities and then she will see what a stupid mess she is making. good luck.

[turnera]

Who else have you exposed to?

[Striver]

Who else have you exposed to?

 

No one else on her side. More people on my side.

 

Don't see the point of more exposure. WW is not much of a team player anyway and doesn't fear it. Said that I was trying to ruin her relationship with her parents by sending them that email. WW feels shes deserves a good relationship with her parents no matter what she is doing.

 

Same with when I discovered she'd been working with OM. Confronted her, she didn't care. She knows what she is doing is wrong, she just doesn't care.

 

I don't have any more marriage saving tactics. I will try to stall things for the sake of the kids. They deserve better. My feelings will not go away for a while, so she has some time to reconcile. Otherwise, I take care of the kids and myself.

[aliveagain]

No one else on her side. More people on my side.

 

Don't see the point of more exposure. WW is not much of a team player anyway and doesn't fear it. Said that I was trying to ruin her relationship with her parents by sending them that email. WW feels shes deserves a good relationship with her parents no matter what she is doing.

 

Same with when I discovered she'd been working with OM. Confronted her, she didn't care. She knows what she is doing is wrong, she just doesn't care.

 

I don't have any more marriage saving tactics. I will try to stall things for the sake of the kids. They deserve better. My feelings will not go away for a while, so she has some time to reconcile. Otherwise, I take care of the kids and myself.

 

Why stall, the quicker you get through this the sooner you can start healing. Dragging it out doesn't benefit you or your children. It takes time to divorce, she can pull her head out of her a$$ anytime up to the final decree and stop the process. She needs to know you are serious, if being served isn't enough to wake her up than she is gone and delaying the process benefits no one.

[Striver]

Why stall, the quicker you get through this the sooner you can start healing. Dragging it out doesn't benefit you or your children. It takes time to divorce, she can pull her head out of her a$$ anytime up to the final decree and stop the process. She needs to know you are serious, if being served isn't enough to wake her up than she is gone and delaying the process benefits no one.

 

One thing is that WW is not really in a sane spot right now. I find it hard to believe she'll feel the same once the fog lifts.

 

Today was a weird day. WW emailed me Thursday, wanted to talk about some legal matters. I put her off until today, because I had the kids out of town all weekend. Had a great time with the kids, everything went fine, except a little sadness that I couldn't share it with a partner.

 

So we talked this morning. WW has chosen a lawyer. Finances don't appear to be an issue. Now in a rush to get the house on the market by spring, because it's a good time to sell. Said we could either have a jointly signed D and work on it together, or I could fight it. I said I would think about it.

 

That was just a little of the conversation. Lots of crying by WW, none by me. Basically a lite version of what she always says; nicer and she backed off on some stuff, and took responsibility for some stuff. Says she's in IC because of the guilt of the D.

 

WW's chief theme today was bantering; she wants a relationship where there is lots of bantering and says we don't have it. There might be some truth to that, but I think it's something that could be worked on. Surely she found things of value in me for years, why is this suddenly a dealbreaker? Well, her answer for that is the kids were harder than she expected, which is a blanket excuse for quitting the marriage. "I didn't know the kids would be hard, so I can bail." Problem is all of the people she is bantering with are not the father of her children.

 

Otherwise, she is all over the place. When I didn't tell her much about what happened with the kids this weekend, she started to be nice to me and was sad she didn't know. Of course, she made it clear that she only wanted to talk in the context of there being no hope for us. Put out MC again, refused again. Probably will put that out there again every chance I get.

 

WW specifically mentioned she didn't want to do every other week at a different parent's house. Which means she is going for physical custody, I guess. I guess I know what's coming now. Of course, then she said that the three day weekend off was good for her, gave her time away from the kids. Then she also worries she won't be able to see her friends anymore because she'll be home with the kids all of the time. Perhaps she could have thought that through?

 

Then tonight, when I get home, she is giddily laughing on the phone with some friend. Bawling in the morning, giddy at night. She's off her rocker.

[turnera]

I suggest you find one of those organizations in your area that helps men in custody disputes. You're about to lose your kids. She needs to see AS SOON AS POSSIBLE how devastating this divorce will be on her life. Have you cut off all funds to her?

 

Unless you still want to save the marriage. In which case you REALLY REALLY need to tell the rest of her family/friends that she's cheating, so that she will feel the shame of THAT and reconsider what she's doing. The only way to save the marriage is to stop the affair. The best way to stop the affair is to shine a spotlight on it and make it too embarrassing to continue. Your marriage can survive her being mad at you; it can't survive another man. Once he is gone, her 'affair fog' will dissipate and she has a 50/50 chance of coming to her senses and realizing what she's throwing away and working to make it up to you.

 

Better than the chances you have now, by being a nice guy to her. Women don't WANT nice guys - they want strong men. Deep down, she's waiting for you to fight for her.

Edited July 22, 2014 by turnera

[No Limit]

Deep down, she's waiting for you to fight for her.

 

That doesn't mean that fighting for her is a good thing to do. Depending on how deep she's in the affair fog - and judging from Striver's last post, VERY deep already - she'll just boost her ego with it.

 

But yeah, OP, do expose her. Don't let her picture herself as the "housewife that finally got rid of the bonds of her old, boring life".

[Striver]

That doesn't mean that fighting for her is a good thing to do. Depending on how deep she's in the affair fog - and judging from Striver's last post, VERY deep already - she'll just boost her ego with it.

 

But yeah, OP, do expose her. Don't let her picture herself as the "housewife that finally got rid of the bonds of her old, boring life".

 

I am probably done with exposure. WW is bossy and dominant and doesn't intimidate. She has convinced herself she needs to do this, she deserves to be selfish, life is too short, neither of us can change, etc.

 

With her constant justifications, she really needs to see it herself. She will or she won't. She's seeing her psych to help with the guilt. My guess is the guilt will be there for a while. My guess is that this will not make her any happier, D usually doesn't.

 

Whatever my issues, guilt about this relationship will not be one of them. I did my best in the one chance given me.

[No Limit]

With her constant justifications, she really needs to see it herself. She will or she won't. She's seeing her psych to help with the guilt. My guess is the guilt will be there for a while. My guess is that this will not make her any happier, D usually doesn't.

 

She won't see it, not in this life. And if she's visiting a good psych he'll sooner or later address other issues and will also regard her behavior, and at that point she'll run away from that too.

 

It's not about divorce itself, it's about expectations vs reality. No, there's no Prince Charming waiting for you to take you to his castle and make your life, which has been ohh so horrible to that point, better. In fact most of the time nobody's waiting, at best a couple of guys wanting to screw you and be done with it.

[Striver]

She won't see it, not in this life. And if she's visiting a good psych he'll sooner or later address other issues and will also regard her behavior, and at that point she'll run away from that too.

 

It's not about divorce itself, it's about expectations vs reality. No, there's no Prince Charming waiting for you to take you to his castle and make your life, which has been ohh so horrible to that point, better. In fact most of the time nobody's waiting, at best a couple of guys wanting to screw you and be done with it.

 

She's still deep in the fog. Eventually that has to lift. Who she will be on the other side, I don't know.

 

Last time we talked there was a big emphasis on bantering/chemistry. Well duh. Standard affair. It is not just OM, but these other friends she goes out with for dinner/drinks. Her female cousin as well. She is not living with these people, trying to raise kids with them. She is seeing them once a week at most. She is the one that stopped doing any sort of dating/fun activity with me.

 

I am told by her that "things work out." I lost my job years ago, found another, so "things work out." Except we have kids. I will not be having more kids with her or anyone, too old. The easiest way for things to "work out" for me would be she gets sold custody, I get every other weekend, I marry someone else with kids, wow I have a woman who likes me again and spend lots of time with her kids, not so much with the ones I fathered, I grow distant from the ones I fathered. That's the easy way to have things "work out."

 

Alternatively, she agrees to share custody 50%. Then she is still going to have to work with me a lot, be less bossy than she likes to be, and we'll both miss the kids from time to time. And live in lesser digs, have nights where we have to stay home, all the crap that goes with being a single parent. Not my choice, but I'll take that if I can get it and there's nothing else.

 

Now, after she's told me that we have absolutely no chance, she is trying to be all friendly with me. Asking about stuff that happened with the kids when she's not there, but could be. Asking me to get excited that she sold some antique furniture, was that some that OM procured for you?

 

I didn't get along the best with my own mom growing up, part of the reason I married late. But I know that she loved my dad and supported him, I saw that. More than I can say for WW. WW still has the gall to try and score points by telling me my mom wasn't a nurturer and WW is.

 

Well, now elderly mom is looking a lot better to me now than WW. WW is a cake eater with an ego the size of Texas.

[Itspointless]

The easiest way for things to "work out" for me would be she gets sold custody, I get every other weekend, I marry someone else with kids, wow I have a woman who likes me again and spend lots of time with her kids, not so much with the ones I fathered, I grow distant from the ones I fathered. That's the easy way to have things "work out."

No,that is no option unless you want that your kids suffer psychological damage. Fight for them. From now on they are much more important than the woman that used to be your wife.

[Striver]

No,that is no option unless you want that your kids suffer psychological damage. Fight for them. From now on they are much more important than the woman that used to be your wife.

 

I'm with ya. I want time with the kids. Quantity, not quality. There for everything. I would not be an effective parent and the kids really suffer with single custody.

 

WW has little to no concern about the kids in the breezy, inane way she is handling this.

[Itspointless]

I'm with ya. I want time with the kids. Quantity, not quality. There for everything. I would not be an effective parent and the kids really suffer with single custody.

 

WW has little to no concern about the kids in the breezy, inane way she is handling this.

Thats sounds like a healthy stand. Your wife sounds like she is having a midlfecrisis or worse. Stay strong.

[Striver]

Thats sounds like a healthy stand. Your wife sounds like she is having a midlfecrisis or worse. Stay strong.

 

Thanks. Got started on IC myself yesterday. It's going to get harder and not easier for a while.

 

Talked to WW's mother a bit yesterday as well. Her parents don't know what to say to her either. I think WW has created a bubble that consists of her, OM, her cousin, and antique furniture. Everything else she tunes out.

 

There has been MLC talk from WW, certainly. Life is too short, I don't want regrets, etc. When I ask her how I could have known she would do this, when she enthusiasticly embraced my interests in the past (the same ones she is rejecting now), she says she didn't know the kids would be hard. So the kids are her get out of jail free card, I guess.

 

All of this is down to her character flaws and little is about me. She was always going to find some excuse. Of the two of us, she has the history of being discontented anyway, always changing household furnishings so things are better. I guess I'm just the next furnishing that has to go, along with the house itself and 10 years of memories.

 

It's not like I never had doubts or weak moments. I did, we all do. But I knew I was making a commitment and worked long term towards that goal. WW feels she deserves to give up. It's a major value system difference, and it bothers me a lot. I'm starting to get uncomfortable watching her interact with the kids, and whatever happens I'll have to see a lot of that. Not sure what to do about that.

[Itspointless]

I know that some people always have felt a certain emptiness that they expect to dissappear when certain goals are fulfilled, like a good man, kids, a house, etc. They dont realize the emptiness is within themselves and needs therapeutic work. At the same time it can be a mental disorder, something in the dynamic between you two, or something completely else.

 

As easy as it is for me to say - as I have never experienced something like this - now it is more important that you start focussing on you and the best solutions for your children, which means that they will have time in the future with you and with her. Let her family worry about her, I think you have done what was in your power and they know that. Perhaps you can find some distraction and empty your head doing sports, meditation, listening to music or with a regular visit to the sauna.

[Striver]

I know that some people always have felt a certain emptiness that they expect to dissappear when certain goals are fulfilled, like a good man, kids, a house, etc. They dont realize the emptiness is within themselves and needs therapeutic work. At the same time it can be a mental disorder, something in the dynamic between you two, or something completely else.

 

As easy as it is for me to say - as I have never experienced something like this - now it is more important that you start focussing on you and the best solutions for your children, which means that they will have time in the future with you and with her. Let her family worry about her, I think you have done what was in your power and they know that. Perhaps you can find some distraction and empty your head doing sports, meditation, listening to music or with a regular visit to the sauna.

 

As far as the dynamic between us, I thought we used to be pretty good. She knew who I was at the time, supported me. Part of the reason I married her is that her unconditional love and support took away any doubts that I had. We have some different interests, but she showed some interest in a lot of the things that I do, and I was generous in letting her get involved at her own pace.

 

Of course, the kids took away a lot of the dating fun. We weren't too rigorous about setting "date nights", though we remained sexually active. Though I don't think what WW is going through is about sexual attraction so much. WW obviously built up a few resentments against me, or got bored and decided to stop trying. Then she got really into the antique furniture and socializing outside with her friends, to the point that it pulled her away from the M.

 

She's still highly emotional, and I have to think things are going to start becoming more real. D is an enormously destabilizing event, one of many reasons I would never do what she is doing. She's been very stable in the past and seems to have gotten over her head emotionally.

 

She tries to make things seem better for me by saying I'll find someone who laughs at my jokes, or likes crossword puzzles or trivia like I do. I have three children and they are my top priority over any hobbies. If we D, at my age I'll probably just look for someone stable again who shares maybe one interest. Totally not worth it, but I probably won't have a choice.

[aliveagain]

Detach, memorize the 180, discuss things that relate to your children, finances and that is all. You can't make her love you and you can't nice her back so focus on what you need to do to end this situation. She is gone, nothing you can do to stop her from f**king up the rest of her life. Do everything you can from allowing it to affect your children, get your own lawyer. She is someone else's problem now, you just need to get her out of your everyday life to start your healing, your children are going to need a strong father because look at what they have for a mother.

[mikethemechanic]

Why stall, the quicker you get through this the sooner you can start healing. Dragging it out doesn't benefit you or your children. It takes time to divorce, she can pull her head out of her

a$$

anytime up to the final decree and stop the process. She needs to know you are serious, if being served isn't enough to wake her up than she is gone and delaying the process benefits no one.

you are a comedian...

[Striver]

Okay, assuming my WW wants to make a go of it with OM, I saw this article that considered the success rate of affair marriages:

 

According to Dr. Frank Pittman, the "mortality rate" of affair-marriages (AM) is as follows:

 

5 years -- 75%

10 years - 90%

"Lifetime"- 95%

 

I do not know the particulars of your WW's situation or of the other AMs you cited, but know that even these generally daunting odds are OPTIMISTIC in most specific cases. Here's why...

 

These stats take into account ALL AMs -- even those that are 'done right' (in a twisted sense obviously) from the get-go. He cites a number of criteria that seem to be associated with a much higher liklihood of AM "survival". This is not an exhaustive list but covers the biggies that I recall (and please understand that I'm not condoning this but merely illustrating the factors involved):

 

1) The AM-partners (AMP) take lots of TIME between divorce(s) and re-marriage. They do not rush in "as soon as the ink is dry" or even within a few months, but wait AT LEAST a full year before re-tying the knot. They usually maintain separate residences while 'dating'.

 

Jury's out there. No idea what they plan to do. Their family knows, so everyone will know what's up with OM anyway even if they wait.

 

2) The AMP are either both childless or both have adult/grown children. Blended families, and particularly single-sided ones, are highly problematic even in 'normal' marriages much less AMs.

 

Fail. Three small kids for WW, nothing for OM.

 

3) The previous marriage(s) being left were TRULY AWFUL unions. Not just the typical 'drifted apart' or 'needed improvement', but horrifically dysfunctional from the start.

 

Fail. We were completely in the bit of drift, needed improvement camp if that.

 

WW compared our M to a working relationship where the chemistry just wasn't right or something. As I said before to her, we have been together for 10 years. There's really not a comparison between our M and anything else in intensity. Anyway, maybe some of her occasional b*tchiness and intolerance might be her? Might not go away when she's with another guy?

 

4) The AMP truly gave their full and sincere effort to rescuing their marriage(s) prior to the affair and left it rationally rather than purely emotionally. IOW, the relationship between the AMPs was NOT a just flight-of-fantasy romantic "I-just-fell-in-love-with-someone-else" escape.

 

Fail. Complete silence from WW until she was ready to leave.

 

5) The AMP were very upfront and honest about their relationship from early on to their spouse(s) and didn't scapegoat/blameshift/badmouth their stbx(s) too badly.

 

Mostly fail. She did self-reveal OM to me. But she mostly blames everything on me or our relationship, doesn't mention presence of OM too much.

 

6) The AMP made great efforts to genuinely & successfully win the voluntary support of their family and friends. No deceit or coapting was involved.

 

Don't think anyone really supports her on this except for her cousin. She is not talking much to very many people. Immediate family may be afraid to confront her.

 

7) The AMP are generally well-matched individuals: similar ages, tastes, interests, plans, goals, beliefs, personalities, etc.

 

That one I'll give them. He was a friend in the past, they have the antiquing in common, so there's that.

 

8) The AMP MUTUALLY decided to marry later as a logical, eyes-wide-open choice between them. They didn't enter the AM from a childish ga-ga, 'soulmate', BFF, emotionally-addicted infatuation state nor did they do so out of need , insecurity, or dependency.

 

Not sure how much this one matters, since OM is the only real reason the M is ending and I don't want it to end it without at least trying MC, etc.

 

9) There was minimal "disparity of sacrifice" between the AMP. IOW, they both came from fairly similar places in their respective life-situations. One partner did not 'give up much more' in terms of career, education, family/friends, desire-for-children, finances, hobbies/recreational-pursuits, religious practice, or ethical-compromise than the other in order to stay together.

 

Fail. She's giving up a lot, a house and family, doesn't have a job right now either. He's not really giving up anything.

 

10) The AM is the 2nd marriage at most for both partners.

 

That one they have.

 

So there are a lot of potential pitfalls for the happy couple. But then, assuming D goes through, I don't know what I'll be doing with my own dating life. 3 young kids is a little daunting, but I'm at an age where I really can't spend years dithering or in a funk.

[turnera]

meh, it's just the PEA chemicals talking. We all get them when we meet someone new, and it turns on the lust, puts on the blinders, and rewrites any history of the person you WERE with (so you can justify moving on to the new one, if you're already with someone). It only lasts 3 to 5 years and it's what keeps the species procreating (since all we needed in caveman days was a few years, to make kids). She's high on her PEA chemicals and everything coming out of her mouth is a self-justified lie. Ignore her.

 

Not sure how much this one matters, since OM is the only real reason the M is ending and I don't want it to end it without at least trying MC, etc.

Or...you could be FIGHTING the affair by exposing it to everyone so it's too embarrassing to see him, exposing to HIS people so they make it hard on HIS side so he questions whether she's worth the trouble, making it difficult for her to legally/financially/logistically run into OM's arms, and not acting like her friend in all this. Your marriage can survive an angry wife; it can't survive another man. MC NEVER WORKS when the spouse is cheating. Edited July 29, 2014 by turnera

[Striver]

meh, it's just the PEA chemicals talking. We all get them when we meet someone new, and it turns on the lust, puts on the blinders, and rewrites any history of the person you WERE with (so you can justify moving on to the new one, if you're already with someone). It only lasts 3 to 5 years and it's what keeps the species procreating (since all we needed in caveman days was a few years, to make kids). She's high on her PEA chemicals and everything coming out of her mouth is a self-justified lie. Ignore her.

 

Or...you could be FIGHTING the affair by exposing it to everyone so it's too embarrassing to see him, exposing to HIS people so they make it hard on HIS side so he questions whether she's worth the trouble, making it difficult for her to legally/financially/logistically run into OM's arms, and not acting like her friend in all this. Your marriage can survive an angry wife; it can't survive another man. MC NEVER WORKS when the spouse is cheating.

 

Tried exposure with her parents and I'm not sure it helped any. I'm willing to tell people, but I think she's defended herself against that having any impact.

 

I'm also about at the point where I have to start protecting myself. WW has burned many bridges. We are still on in-house separation, so I need to interact with her some. I try to be polite but terse, force her to initiate conversation.

 

WW is in therapy for guilt, she says. Good luck to her in dealing with that. This is why I wrote what I did above. How easy would it be to integrate OM into her life with the guilt, unequal sacrifice, small children? Not at all the same as what we faced, and she is not taking that into account, I'm sure. She is not taking the separation/divorce seriously. The A is more real to her than the family.

 

I need to start to map out survival strategies and visions. If she wants to end the A she's on her own. Emotionally, it's going to take me a while to grieve and heal anyway. I still remember all of the times she treated me nicely in the past. Big reason why I never would have done this to her.

[turnera]

Common reaction, but still wrong. Exposure is the single most effective way to get a cheater to stop. But I get it, you're not willing to take on her anger. So you'll get divorced, move on, and probably marry someone else just like her.

[Striver]

Common reaction, but still wrong. Exposure is the single most effective way to get a cheater to stop. But I get it, you're not willing to take on her anger. So you'll get divorced, move on, and probably marry someone else just like her.

 

Maybe. Maybe it's also time to stop fighting. I don't know yet.

 

WW has her virtues or I wouldn't have married her. She has some glaring faults as well, like being bossy, selfish, and lazy. Which is a big part of why we're in this mess. But she is who she is. Something did seem to change for her. I doubt I can be the kind of guy she says she wants, and I don't like the way I see her now sometimes.

 

WW has very little intellectual curiosity, that is something we didn't share. I'm generous, I didn't care about her lack of curiosity. She might have felt farther away from because of it, though. She could have buckled down, found a way to reconnect to me, but like I said, selfish and lazy. But that's who she is.

 

As a family we attend church fairly regularly. That's my interest; she didn't go before we met, but she did join our church before we got married. Last time we talked she said that church wasn't her. WW has burned many bridges, maybe too many to overcome now.

 

I won't choose the same kind of woman. I'll go in a different direction, if I do at all. I'll probably try, but I've been waiting my whole life for someone to "get" me, and it may not happen. That's life.