I just heard my father justifying an abuser

[dragon_fly_7]

I'm currently in my homecountry and coming from latino background, there seems to be an increasing number of DV in the newspaper almost every single day. IMO, there is no excuse whatsoever to be dragged by the hair, hit and punched on the ground; not even if the woman was a toal sloot that cheated with his best friend. Unless it's in true self-defense only, I don't care about the reason.

 

In the newspaper, some spanish male celebrity was getting reported for not only hitting his wife, but dragging her by the hair, slapping and punching her body and taking off her pants as she was walking away and getting into the taxi. Then I read about an interview kept asking her ''But why did he hit you'' and she was like ''Because I don't want to be with him'' and clearly told them to stop asking her and that she wants the charges to proceed, that she'll never forgive him for that.

 

And just now what got me pissed off is I heard my father saying ''He hit her but for a damn good reason (translating what he said in spanish: Le ha pegado pero con justa razon). As a daughter I would feel extremely disappointed if I were married, a future husband hit me and my father was trying to justify this or was asking me what really happened. I would then not speak to my father, file charges on that so called ''husband'' and divorce him immediately. To me this is an absolute black-and-white area, a total deal-breaker with no ifs nor buts. That's how strongly I feel about this.

Edited June 13, 2014 by dragon_fly_7

[ja123]

Sorry to hear about your father's attitude.

 

 

Be thankful that you are more educated and no longer live under his roof.

 

 

Did you ask him how he would react if a man did that you in those circumstances? What did he say?

[dragon_fly_7]

Sorry to hear about your father's attitude.

 

Did you ask him how he would react if a man did that you in those circumstances? What did he say?

I haven't ask him because I now pretty much know what he'll likely say. He will start trying to BS me about causes and effect, how I have to analyze the causes for why it happened and not the effect.

Be thankful that you are more educated and no longer live under his roof.

Well I still live with my parents but I actually help out at home with the bill too and pay for my classes. I only have 1 year left to finish college though. I'm thinking about applying to practice jobs related to my major.

Yes, I'm educated in this topic because for me it's not normal to even feel one bit of fear towards a bf/husband and it's not normal to feel you deserve getting hit, no one does.

 

I believe this attitude is a result of this machismo culture in the latin countries, spanish society.

 

If given the causes-effect speech on the situation of ''If a husband were to abuse me like that'', this is what would be my answer:

Causes: Because he wanted to, because he's a bully, because chose not to have self-control, because he chose not to solve things in a non-aggressive manner

Effect: Filing charges against him and divorcing that loser

Edited June 13, 2014 by dragon_fly_7

[Candy_Pants]

Ugggh , that's unfortunate about your father. I'm sorry. Luckily you are not as ignorant. Nor do you have to date/marry someone with a similar attitude.

[todreaminblue]

if you know soemone marying an abusive man woudl be unlikely to happen, i tend to jsutify an abuser as i hav ebeen abused and forgiven them and having been abused i think that i am justified in thinking an dknowing that external issues of addictions and or abuse permeated into their vey own lives soemhow has caused th emajoity of the abused and misunderstood to reoffend soemone as they know no other way to be....luckily for me after ereceiving multiple traimas as a child and as a young adult i now advocate in rehabilitation of abusers to see they nee to hav eremorse for what they hav edobne...and even really heinous crimes....shoudl eb forgiven if true remorse is shown......what is on esin to another to another....had a conversation with my6 mother today abotu such an issue o fsin vs other sin....adn that in gods eyes sin i ssin adn we donnot know enough fo gods ehart to be as graceful inmercy and forgiveness as he, but we can attempt to live christian principles given and choose not to judge another but leave that in his hands ...as i received no apologies for newsworthy abuse i have surivived, with trauma and abuse i find comfort in gods ways and not the court system or a newspaper article that points out a victim to eb targeted at a latr date by soemoen else who goes hey arent you th eone on tv yesterday crap what happened how did it feel...i choose when to speak o fit o rsimply when to forget abotu it for a while...which si th ejoy of beign now a mumlitple personality...who can see that sin is son no wmatter the boas on how affrontign that sin is to you personally...you dotn know what it feels like to be abused so i dotn feel it is a judgement you can make...and i say so with no disrespect intended to you it is my wn thoughts i am sharing not demands fro agreement or denial....or argument for that matter.,..........but i have thought deeply about this, searching all my heart for justice adn completion and resoltuion...there is none to be had in this life fro me.... when people who have not been abused make judgements on abusers and or abused for putting up with it i fidn it hard to see an affinity of thought.........why i can digress with my mother abotu this and why i find an affinity with her in discussing sin against another sin is because she too has siuffered abuse and or sexual molestation from an adult who had no such life of abuse where as with me i am polar opposite....most f my abuse is from people who have siuffered abuse adn or substance abuse is rife.......it gives balance and understanding to our conversations.....adn we do alwasy coem back to ...its up to god to judge not us....who sins more than another.....she was a sunday school teacher who has firm love of god but not of hypocrisy in faith alone..it is the most affrotnign of sins to claim to love god yet abuse others......i think they will in turn be held more accountable in the day of the mercy seat than abusers who have in turn been placed in a world o fabuse substance or otherwise.....that i our debate my mother and i can have.....deb

[dragon_fly_7]

Ugggh , that's unfortunate about your father. I'm sorry. Luckily you are not as ignorant. Nor do you have to date/marry someone with a similar attitude.

Yeah, I pretty much had to educate myself that there is never a reason to get hit and that I'm worth more than a man's punching bag. In addition, I never felt threatened with my then bf as he also fully agreed with me on this topic. That's the main reason, we're still friends. If he would have talked like my father, he wouldn't even make it pass a 2nd date.

 

todreaminblue, you're more kind than me in regards to reformed abusers. He would already be dead in my eyes. I see them as a waste of oxygen, disgusting beings that give the other good men a bad reputation. I even have hatred towards them.

Edited June 13, 2014 by dragon_fly_7

[Radu]

That machismo also applies to cheating on your wife.

 

 

<----- from latin language country

[M30USA]

I'm currently in my homecountry and coming from latino background, there seems to be an increasing number of DV in the newspaper almost every single day. IMO, there is no excuse whatsoever to be dragged by the hair, hit and punched on the ground; not even if the woman was a toal sloot that cheated with his best friend. Unless it's in true self-defense only, I don't care about the reason.

 

In the newspaper, some spanish male celebrity was getting reported for not only hitting his wife, but dragging her by the hair, slapping and punching her body and taking off her pants as she was walking away and getting into the taxi. Then I read about an interview kept asking her ''But why did he hit you'' and she was like ''Because I don't want to be with him'' and clearly told them to stop asking her and that she wants the charges to proceed, that she'll never forgive him for that.

 

And just now what got me pissed off is I heard my father saying ''He hit her but for a damn good reason (translating what he said in spanish: Le ha pegado pero con justa razon). As a daughter I would feel extremely disappointed if I were married, a future husband hit me and my father was trying to justify this or was asking me what really happened. I would then not speak to my father, file charges on that so called ''husband'' and divorce him immediately. To me this is an absolute black-and-white area, a total deal-breaker with no ifs nor buts. That's how strongly I feel about this.

 

While I agree with your philosophy, unfortunately the same philosophy doesn't get applied when women hit men. Women are even lauded and told, "He had it coming!" (Soubds exactly like what your father said, doesn't it.)

[Tayla]

While I agree with your philosophy, unfortunately the same philosophy doesn't get applied when women hit men. Women are even lauded and told, "He had it coming!" (Soubds exactly like what your father said, doesn't it.)

 

Its a common and sad fact M30USA. I recall the public outcry for exoneration when Lorena Bobbit chose such a heinous act on her spouse. As a female I was, am still am appalled at this demeaning act to another human. I will never accept such barbaric reasoning to justify an incomprehensible act.

 

Be it a "common" societal method in cultures or not, doesnt make it right in the human rights category.

 

Sometimes standing up and speaking up carries a level of responsiblity that few dare to navigate thru.

[ThatMan]

No, M30USA, women who hit men aren't necessarily lauded. They're often seen as trashy and incredibly pathetic - Exactly as how men who strike women are often viewed.

 

Any gender may potentially justify to themselves ongoing abuse, just not as often as you might believe. Their opinion isn't what matters. What matters is whether or not you believe you're deserving of proper respect and treatment. So continue avoiding any woman who applauds any form of violence while being secure in the knowledge that plenty more women out there hold themselves to a higher standard.

[Tayla]

No, M30USA, women who hit men aren't necessarily lauded. They're often seen as trashy and incredibly pathetic - Exactly as how men who strike women are often viewed.

 

Any gender may potentially justify to themselves ongoing abuse, just not as often as you might believe. Their opinion isn't what matters. What matters is whether or not you believe you're deserving of proper respect and treatment. So continue avoiding any woman who applauds any form of violence while being secure in the knowledge that plenty more women out there hold themselves to a higher standard.

 

I will ask kindly that you read the posting I have. Its an example (one of many) that does validate the group mentality of lauding by certain genders. In this case, that of womens group ...Again it comes down to having the grumption to rise above the mentality and live life in a civilized manner. M30USA was correct in perspective and fact.

[lollipopspot]

Its a common and sad fact M30USA. I recall the public outcry for exoneration when Lorena Bobbit chose such a heinous act on her spouse.

 

That's a poor example. I recall that Lorena Bobbitt was a battered woman who snapped in some kind of self defense. That's very different than being the batterer.

 

Both the prosecution and defense sides conceded that he had demonstrated a history of abuse toward her, that this abuse created a context for the assault. Expert witnesses "for both the prosecution and the defense testified that he had mentally and physically battered her, that the abuse was escalating, and that by 1993 she lived in constant fear of him.".[8] One expert witness testified, in accordance with a defense strategy that emphasized her action as being a mix of self-defense and temporary insanity constituting an "irresistible impulse," due to the history and pattern of abuse and rape, that "Lorena believed and was immobilized by John's threat, 'I will find you, whether we're divorced or separated. And wherever I find you, I'll have sex with you whenever I want to.' "[9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_and_Lorena_Bobbitt

Edited June 14, 2014 by lollipopspot

[Radu]

That's a poor example. I recall that Lorena Bobbitt was a battered woman who snapped in some kind of self defense. That's very different than being the batterer.

 

 

John and Lorena Bobbitt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Takes 2 to make a volatile relationship, but it takes 1 to do an attempted murder.

[lollipopspot]

Huh? You kind of missed the point. People may stand up for someone who has been victimized for years who fights back. That's why the Bobbitt case was a poor example.

 

I don't think battery by either gender is lauded.

[dragon_fly_7]

That machismo also applies to cheating on your wife.

 

 

<----- from latin language country

Yes, that too. They want to cheat but still expect their poor wives to be faithful.

While I agree with your philosophy, unfortunately the same philosophy doesn't get applied when women hit men. Women are even lauded and told, "He had it coming!" (Soubds exactly like what your father said, doesn't it.)

Sorry to hear that but I don't think most think like that in the US. You can still file charges of assault if you're being attacked regardless of the aggressor's gender.

 

I think both machismo in latin countries and extreme feminism (treating the Lorena Bobbit case as some type of praising in the US) are equally terrible. They both represent undergoing resentment towards the opposite gender. I don't agree with neither of them. Abusers of either gender suck.

Edited June 14, 2014 by dragon_fly_7

[lollipopspot]

I recall the public outcry for exoneration when Lorena Bobbit chose such a heinous act on her spouse. As a female I was, am still am appalled at this demeaning act to another human. I will never accept such barbaric reasoning to justify an incomprehensible act.

 

(treating the Lorena Bobbit case as some type of praising in the US)

 

Why are you still trying to use Lorena Bobbitt as your poster child for a female batterer? The husband was an acknowledged on-going batterer who came home drunk and raped his wife before the incident. He went on to be charged with assaulting a subsequent wife too.

 

Sure, what she did was appalling. The precedent of beating and raping your wife for years is equally barbaric.

 

If you insist on finding a case that you can hold up to illustrate your point, choose your case with common sense. When the kid in the schoolyard stands up to someone who's been bullying them for years - even in a really over the top and violent way - that kid is looked at differently than the bully. I hope I don't have to spell out that analogy for the example you chose.

[dragon_fly_7]

Why are you still trying to use Lorena Bobbitt as your poster child for a female batterer? The husband was an acknowledged on-going batterer who came home drunk and raped his wife before the incident. He went on to be charged with assaulting a subsequent wife too.

 

Sure, what she did was appalling. The precedent of beating and raping your wife for years is equally barbaric.

Well someone brought up the Lorena Bobbitt case. I didn't.

 

If he was beating the wife for years, I don't get why she didn't report him and file for divorce. Abuse just doesn't start with rape and getting beat up. It must have been verbally at first and then slowly proceeded to maybe a shove and so on. He definitely deserved prison time at that very moment.

 

Thing is, if the husband is asleep or drunk and his wife as retalitory ties him up and cuts his penis; that would be classified as assault with a deadly weapon and there is a time served for that too.

 

If I were the judge, I would understand if she was an abused victim and actually give her a much less time (maybe 2 years) but I would still have to put her in jail for committing assault too; for her to understand that what she did was also a crime since it was premediated.

 

I've noticed that years after that happened, there have been a few Lorena copycats in the US, in which they weren't done in self-defense and one time even saw the ''cutting a man's penis'' used as a joke in a youtube video. That I don't agree at all. What her husband did was absolutely horrible but the Lorena thing shouldn't be something to be treated as a joke either.

Edited June 14, 2014 by dragon_fly_7

[Tayla]

Lollipopspot, Sometimes even the facts cannot bring a person an open mind.

 

We disagree. Mine based on trial records and groups. So be it.

 

I accept that my example is valid and useful to this overall topic.

[dragon_fly_7]

I accept that my example is valid and useful to this overall topic.

It is.

Way back in 2011, I actually read about one particular case in my country of a woman also doing that because her husband cheated. Both a female co-worker in my one of my former workplace and I wanted to literally throw up. I truly felt sick that day and kind of had a hard time concentrating at work.

 

Peruvian woman chops husband's penis off for infidelity

 

I could never bring myself to do such horrible thing to a man. I think the worst would probably be a slap or punch but to cut off his penis?? Yikes... I think I would have to be literally scared for my life and act in quick self-defense.

 

Abusers of both genders justifying their acts deserved to be locked up. Wish it can be a better world where there is mutual respect and appreciation for the opposite gender.

Edited June 15, 2014 by dragon_fly_7

[jonsnuh]

It is.

Way back in 2011, I actually read about one particular case in my country of a woman also doing that because her husband cheated. Both a female co-worker in my one of my former workplace and I wanted to literally throw up. I truly felt sick that day and kind of had a hard time concentrating at work.

 

Peruvian woman chops husband's penis off for infidelity

 

I could never bring myself to do such horrible thing to a man. I think the worst would probably be a slap or punch but to cut off his penis?? Yikes... I think I would have to be literally scared for my life and act in quick self-defense.

 

Abusers of both genders justifying their acts deserved to be locked up. Wish it can be a better world where there is mutual respect and appreciation for the opposite gender.

 

I read somewhere that the fine ladies from The View laughed at the poor man's treatment. Meanwhile, the double standards make female genital mutilation in African tribal villages oh so shocking.

[ThatMan]

What are any of you trying to prove anyways? How often people justify abuse?

 

It shouldn't matter how prevalent these views are. If you find yourself within an abusive relationship it won't be your father, uncle, sister, or neighbor down the street who helps you walk away. Whether or not any of them justify abuse isn't important. The only person who look after your own personal considerations is yourself. Even the best spouses out there with the greatest intentions cannot accomplish what is your own responsibility.

[dragon_fly_7]

What are any of you trying to prove anyways? How often people justify abuse?

Would be cool if no one try to justify abuse.

It shouldn't matter how prevalent these views are. If you find yourself within an abusive relationship it won't be your father, uncle, sister, or neighbor down the street who helps you walk away. Whether or not any of them justify abuse isn't important. The only person who look after your own personal considerations is yourself. Even the best spouses out there with the greatest intentions cannot accomplish what is your own responsibility.

That's the one good thing about me. It's my strong convictions and knowing what a healthy relationship is like. At times, I feel like I might even have an elevated high-esteem that simply would never allow me to accept controlling behaviors nor horrible treatment.

[turnera]

I haven't ask him because I now pretty much know what he'll likely say. He will start trying to BS me about causes and effect, how I have to analyze the causes for why it happened and not the effect.

It doesn't matter what he says. What matters is that you make it clear you are disappointed to know your own father condones men beating women and that you now feel less safe. Say it and walk away.

[Grumpybutfun]

Dragonfly, your fathers behavior is repulsive. My daughters and wife are never going two hear anything from me that denotes their need for safety in this world. Men who condone, make excuses or even joke about rape, domestic abuse and violence are lacking. I know it is hard when it is your father, but regardless of whether or not he will receive what you are saying when you say you resent his misogyny, it is important for you to be able to say it without repercussions.

[lollipopspot]

It is.

Way back in 2011, I actually read about one particular case in my country of a woman also doing that because her husband cheated.

 

Doing something violent because someone cheated on you is much different than doing something violent because you have just been raped and have been beaten for years. To put it in better context.

 

Good luck with your dad though. I'm glad I don't come from someone with those views.