affair ten years ago?

[2sunny]

Please be aware - that your individual sessions are designed to help you change.

 

When you change - others adjust to your changes - if you stay consistent over a long period of time.

 

It really is about you and controlling what you are capable of adjusting - yourself.

 

Most good therapists will give you assignments to accomplish new behaviors between sessions. Most should have tons of ideas to overcome the worst obstacles in human behaviors.

 

I hope you can be open minded about becoming the best you can be - whether you stay married or not. Whether your wife cheated or not.

 

You are always responsible for how you choose to participate. I hope you will grow and learn a new way.

[HereNorThere]

Nothing wrong with your therapist taking notes; don't be paranoid, lol.

[mikethemechanic]

I think she already made it clear that she wont take the polygraph, even if it means divorce.

 

she thinks that by asking for poly, he disrespects her and is trying to humiliate her. she is also fighting for control, and she really doesn't see him or care about him at all in that matter.

 

And of course there's the other thing - She knows she cheated, so she knows that poly means divorce anyway, so why should she cooperate?

 

I think that the past issue is over and the OP should decide whether he can clean the past in his mind and focus on the future, or if he can't do that he should just divorced her. It's his call.

 

I've been thinking over what you wrote over the last couple of days it all make sense. The main problem with these men including myself whom write sad stories of their wives duplicity, is the preoccupation with regret and pleasure. Did my wife enjoy the ea/sa was it conducted with out qualms and if so why or how could she? Secondly is she genuinely remorseful for the distaste and heartache that I experienced.

 

Affairs trigger psychological disorders, ego strength is often used to described one's own ability to maintain their identity and sense of self in the face of pain, distress and conflict. It's then important to acquire new defenses and coping mechanisms to strengthen one's ego. My recommendation is that when you find yourself questioning the motives leading to the affair, tell yourself "oh I am thinking about the affair again" this should be enough to let it go.

 

Hopefully he will divorce his wife and let someone new into his life.

[alwayshere]

Affairs trigger psychological disorders

 

I'd love to see the documented evidence for THIS.

 

If she flatly refuses a polygraph and gets defensive and angry, that to me is a red flag. If she readily agrees, then you have to ask:

 

If she passes, can I let this go, or will I just doubt the polygraph?

 

I think she has probably crossed into EA territory on more than one occasion. Only she knows about PA.

 

If I were her, I'd make the appointment myself. I can't stand it when I know I'm being truthful and someone won't believe me.

[mikethemechanic]

I'd love to see the documented evidence for THIS.

 

If she flatly refuses a polygraph and gets defensive and angry, that to me is a red flag. If she readily agrees, then you have to ask:

 

If she passes, can I let this go, or will I just doubt the polygraph?

 

I think she has probably crossed into EA territory on more than one occasion. Only she knows about PA.

 

If I were her, I'd make the appointment myself. I can't stand it when I know I'm being truthful and someone won't believe me.

 

we're missing information what if jjsk worked hard to get ws? what if ws was his dream girl even before they begun dating?

[mikethemechanic]

I'm tempted to say to her that she did the right thing. She paid back, with interest,

for the way I was treating her

. But I still want to know the truth of just how far she went. The pain is unbearable.

Guilt is the Teacher, Love is the Lesson.

[alwayshere]

we're missing information what if jjsk worked hard to get ws? what if ws was his dream girl even before they begun dating?

 

I am completely confused.

 

My,point was that there is no basis for saying affairs trigger mentally illness

[Mr. Lucky]

can you elaborate a little more on what this evidence is and what has lead you to suspecting that inappropriate things have happened going back for a decade or more?

OP, I never saw an answer to this question as to what made you think their 10-year old interaction was less than innocent. Can you elaborate?

 

Otherwise, hard to tell if you're being paranoid or perceptive...

 

Mr. Lucky

[mikethemechanic]

I'm tempted to say to her that she did the right thing. She paid back, with interest, for the way I was treating her. But I still want to know the truth of just how far she went. The pain is unbearable.

 

Infidelity causes severe trauma, but it's not your fault

 

thought that this may best explain my point of view, how infidelity is traumatic.

[2sunny]

If you were mistreating her - she could have divorced you.

 

You think she justified cheating by your treatment of her?

 

I was abused by my exH - I didn't solve that problem with cheating on him = I divorced him.

 

You are who you are - and your words and actions represent you. You can become a better person whether you stay married to her or not.

 

Her cheating is only on her. IF she did it - it tells you what she's capable of - and HER lack of integrity.

[alwayshere]

Infidelity causes severe trauma, but it's not your fault

 

thought that this may best explain my point of view, how infidelity is traumatic.

 

Well I missed that completely. I thought you meant the WS became mentally ill.

 

2sunny is right. No matter how unhappy she was or how much of it you caused, she had options besides cheating.

[jjsk]

OP, I never saw an answer to this question as to what made you think their 10-year old interaction was less than innocent. Can you elaborate?

 

Otherwise, hard to tell if you're being paranoid or perceptive...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I found that she keeps a personal contact info of a former coworker. I've heard about and even met, most of her work teammates, including the one she had a recent EA with. But not this person. It's a completely new name. I found out by digging up linkedin connections that they've worked at the same company 10 years ago. Why would she have his contact in her notebook? This is a very thin ice to walk on if I try to confront her.

 

 

My recommendation is that when you find yourself questioning the motives leading to the affair, tell yourself "oh I am thinking about the affair again" this should be enough to let it go.

 

Hopefully he will divorce his wife and let someone new into his life.

 

I don't understand this. how is D going to make me stop thinking about the affair or get rid of questioning my own behavior? What if "someone new" will find it objectionable enough to justify an affair at some point in the future? Then I'm back at square one. Why would you wish a divorce to someone who wants to R?

Edited June 18, 2014 by jjsk

[mikethemechanic]

I found that she keeps a personal contact info of a former coworker. I've heard about and even met, most of her work teammates, including the one she had a recent EA with. But not this person. It's a completely new name. I found out by digging up linkedin connections that they've worked at the same company 10 years ago. Why would she have his contact in her notebook? This is a very thin ice to walk on if I try to confront her.

 

 

 

 

I don't understand this. how is D going to make me stop thinking about the affair or get rid of questioning my own behavior? What if "someone new" will find it objectionable enough to justify an affair at some point in the future? Then I'm back at square one.

Why

would you wish a divorce to someone who wants to R?

 

 

In my profession love+ money+ revenge equals murder. Homicide is an extreme emotional disturbance so in your regards to your wife who is presumably "NORMAL"this would not be her reaction! OM whose to say? my prognosis is that she'll continue the affair in spite of your emotional gains. EITHER OR EITHER IT WILL ALL END BADLY FOR YOU.

[Mr. Lucky]

I found that she keeps a personal contact info of a former coworker. I've heard about and even met, most of her work teammates, including the one she had a recent EA with. But not this person. It's a completely new name. I found out by digging up linkedin connections that they've worked at the same company 10 years ago. Why would she have his contact in her notebook? This is a very thin ice to walk on if I try to confront her.

Huh ? I have used and unused contacts in email, linked in, phone and other databases. Seems like very little on which to base these kinds of assumptions.

 

Are you sure you're not projecting your other issues with her onto this?

 

Mr. Lucky

[jjsk]

Huh ? I have used and unused contacts in email, linked in, phone and other databases. Seems like very little on which to base these kinds of assumptions.

 

Are you sure you're not projecting your other issues with her onto this?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

yes I know, there are contacts in email/linked etc, stale old records etc.

 

But she also keeps a small list of personal contacts separately. may be 10 or 12 contacts. There was the EA-man's personal email and cell phone in there (although she told me she didn't know how to contact him other than through work email - ridiculous).

 

I know everyone on that short list except this one one person. Hmm. May be I'm paranoid

 

If she finds out I'm looking through her personal stuff she will be mad and offended again. Withdrawing "love units" ...

[jjsk]

In my profession love+ money+ revenge equals murder. Homicide is an extreme emotional disturbance so in your regards to your wife who is presumably "NORMAL"this would not be her reaction! OM whose to say? my prognosis is that she'll continue the affair in spite of your emotional gains. EITHER OR EITHER IT WILL ALL END BADLY FOR YOU.

 

so what you are saying the OM will murder me? I better file for the divorce then. Gez...

[alwayshere]

Actually homicide is a crime, not an emotional problem. it is a crime if he kills you. AND it IS a crime if you kill him.

 

Look, what your wife has chosen to do is 100% on her. She cannot blame your marriage. That also means that anything you CHOOSE to do in response to what she has done is on you.

 

There is either personal responsibility or there isn't.

 

Do you have any spyware or any type of way to get her texts, etc? That will give you more info than just an address book.

[mikethemechanic]

so what you are saying the OM will murder me? I better file for the divorce then. Gez...

 

“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.” Sherlock Holmes

why did ww have the affair? Was it revenge for your mistreatment of her? Money does the om give her any money? If it's love well... The Mind is Designed to Kill.

 

Human nature, mating motives may lead to murder, book theorizes | News

[mikethemechanic]

jjsk I hope this story that you shared with us gets better.

[Owl]

yes I know, there are contacts in email/linked etc, stale old records etc.

 

But she also keeps a small list of personal contacts separately. may be 10 or 12 contacts. There was the EA-man's personal email and cell phone in there (although she told me she didn't know how to contact him other than through work email - ridiculous).

 

I know everyone on that short list except this one one person. Hmm. May be I'm paranoid

 

If she finds out I'm looking through her personal stuff she will be mad and offended again. Withdrawing "love units" ...

 

OK...so what more have you done here?

 

Have you contacted your cell phone provider for her detailed phone records assuming its a joint acct? Looked at credit card records for odd charges during that time frame? Gone back over the times when she may have been gone in your head to look for any 'opportunities' she'd have had to get together with someone, and you just blew other 'red flags' off?

 

Affairs take time, communication, and usually funding to maintain.

[jjsk]

OK...so what more have you done here?

 

Have you contacted your cell phone provider for her detailed phone records assuming its a joint acct? Looked at credit card records for odd charges during that time frame? Gone back over the times when she may have been gone in your head to look for any 'opportunities' she'd have had to get together with someone, and you just blew other 'red flags' off?

 

Affairs take time, communication, and usually funding to maintain.

 

I'm getting a little tired of snooping... It's getting ridiculous. MC agreed to support me in reiterating the importance of honesty to my wife. My W is very reasonable and understanding as long as she feels safe. May be I'm being naive but I think she might open up. We had been separated for a few weeks (not by choice). When she comes home and ready to talk I will try to approach her in a most gentle and unthreatening way. Nothing else seems to work.. lie detectors, water boarding, alcohol or drug cocktails are not being considered at this time lol

[mikethemechanic]

I

'm getting a little tired of snooping...

It's getting ridiculous. MC agreed to support me in reiterating the importance of honesty to my wife. My W is very reasonable and understanding as long as she feels safe. May be I'm being naive but I think she might open up. We had been separated for a few weeks (not by choice). When she comes home and ready to talk I will try to approach her in a most gentle and unthreatening way. Nothing else seems to work.. lie detectors, water boarding, alcohol or drug cocktails are not being considered at this time lol

certainly rummaging through financial records and reports wouldn't be snooping! Look it at as auditing and tracking all past expenses.

[Owl]

I'm getting a little tired of snooping... It's getting ridiculous. MC agreed to support me in reiterating the importance of honesty to my wife. My W is very reasonable and understanding as long as she feels safe. May be I'm being naive but I think she might open up. We had been separated for a few weeks (not by choice). When she comes home and ready to talk I will try to approach her in a most gentle and unthreatening way. Nothing else seems to work.. lie detectors, water boarding, alcohol or drug cocktails are not being considered at this time lol

 

I can understand that.

 

But by the same token, you really only can take one of two options.

 

1. Snoop and find the truth (hopefully).

2. Accept your wife at her word, and let it go.

 

It's one or the other...the two paths are in opposite directions. You can't do both.

 

What's YOUR plan?

[crederer]

If you're ever in a situation where you strongly feel the need to get your spouse to take a polygraph, if you have that little trust in her and she lies that often, you really just need to get out. Having a spouse on a polygraph has never even crossed my mind and I've been in several sketchy circumstances.

[revelations]

jjsk

 

In your opening post you state that your WW agrees that she had an EA however does not feel it is wrong because no sex happened. Now at this point you wonder if you are being paranoid or snooping too much, your worried if you are going to destroy your marriage. However remember at this point you have discussed and both you and your WW agree that she did have an EA, the only thing you two don't seem to agree on is if it is okay. Now the problem is that defining an EA is not always an easy thing to do. Their is really no clear cut lines that I am aware of. However for me the major indication is discussions of marital problems or the shortcomings of a spouse with the member of the opposite sex that is not a professional IC of some sorts. Others may have better definitions of an EA and I would certainly love to hear them.

 

Even with a good definition of an EA that is still not the major point here. The major point is that you had both seen it as an EA, however only one of you feels that it was wrong. This is the same type of rug sweeping that occurs when a wife attends a hen party with strippers that she comes in contact with. Often times they try and minimize their actions by saying things like "I only tugged on his penis a couple of times" or "Don't be so childish, I only gave it a quick lick". By making statements like these or similar the gold is to try and get you to think that your over reacting to what she did. The wife is now trying to make you feel that it is perfectly normal that she had her tong on another mans penis.

 

In your case your wife is doing the same thing except with an EA. She is trying to make you believe that an EA is perfectly okay and that you are the one who is over reacting. However your WW's actions in the past and even now are still bothering you. Contact notes of an OM that you have no clue about are causing you doubt. However your not even sure if you should be doubting at all, after all an EA is okay as far as the WW is concerned. So you are not only left with doubt, your also confused.

 

Now let's look at this at a little more neutral angle, no EA or SA type of stuff. Let's just say that you did something that caused your WW to be hurt in someway. Maybe you hurt her pride or she felt humiliated, so she tells you about this. Now what would your reaction be learning that you did something that hurt your wife? Even if you never meant to hurt your WW in any way and had no clue that you did, you would probably apologize and never repeat the action again. Hell you may not agree with her, however at the very least you would try and make some sort of amends and change to show her that it will never happen again.

 

From what you describe your WW has not done any of this. Now to make matters even worse your WW is probably in no fear of ever loosing you. This means that she now knows that she can do whatever she wants with out fear of consequences from it. Your WW can have her cake and eat it too and she knows it. Your WW may have had an EA or two, however eventually she will probably have an SA. Don't worry she will tell you to stop being so dramatic since his penis was only in her for a few minutes to a half hour.

 

Now you stated why divorce her when you can end up with the same thing. That is very true my friend, however let's look at it a bit differently. Right now you know you have a wife that feels their is nothing wrong with an EA, therefore will probably not think twice about another EA. From what I have read (correct me if I am wrong) she has shown no concern that her EA has hurt you. Now these are things and probably others that you know as fact when staying with her. These are actions that she takes that hurt you and has not intentions of stopping the actions because she does not feel they are wrong. Now by divorcing her and looking for a new wife you have greatly increased your odds of finding someone who will not do this. Truthfully she may even be sensitive to such things and do her best to avoid hurting you this way. Think of it like this, you have two women standing in front of you. A guy walks up and points to the first woman and says "she is a good wife, however she always cheats at least one time during the marriage". You then ask "What about this other woman", the man replies "I don't know, we do not know a thing about her". So which is the better woman to take a chance with?

 

The major question you should be asking yourself is do you feel okay with the way your WW is treating you? Do you feel that you are still being respected and loved with her having an EA and not seeing anything wrong with it? For me showing a spouse love is a little more than just the words, it is the actions. One major action would be to acknowledge that the other spouse was hurt and not just stop the hurtful action, also reassure the spouse that it will never happen again. So you need to be aware of the fact that your WW may never change and ask yourself if you can live with that.

 

Now about divorce, which is something you seem like you do not want to do. However I will be blunt with you in saying that yes, dating these days really sucks. I will go on a date once in a while just for fun, however I never put in any emotional investment with any of these women. The reason is that I know myself that the major amount of emotional pain I have felt was always at the hands of another woman. I have always said that the gamble is not in trying to find a woman that won't cheat. The gamble is every day that the woman you are with will not cheat. So for me, I just avoid them all together. The first year was rough, however it was not being alone that was rough. It was the fact that I was allowing my xWW to rent way too much space in my head. Once I was able to slow down how much I was thinking about her, things got better for me. My thinking started to shift from how bad I was hurt to other things that I can now do, that I did not have time for before. Instead of allowing my self to be hurt over and over again I finally put a stop to it.

 

Today my life is much better, I have actually started to enjoy life again. I have rejected that "Man up" dogma and know that a woman does not complete me as a man. I relearned something I knew a long time ago, which is that happiness comes from within. No woman, or item can make you happy. The only thing a woman can really do is to disturb your happiness. I have had women on this site use every type of shaming language and misdirection that you can think of simply because I stated that I will never live with nor marry a woman ever again. Most tried to site greed as the reason for me not remarrying. However I pointed out that it is better to be alone and able to live indoors and eat than it is to die alone on the streets. So just know that you do not have to keep allowing yourself to be hurt. It is okay to finally say that you have had enough and start enjoying your life. Being alone is never as bad as waiting for your wife to come home from her weekend away with her lover. So be good to yourself, because I can tell you that no one else will.