Author jjsk Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) When I asked if my wife wanted to know if I ever had an affair she said NO. Unless I can't keep my mouth shut and want to be selfish, then I can tell her. It sounds like living a lie for the rest of my life would be the price for having an A in the first place. But I should not be hurting her by telling her about it. She said she will never ask me if I was with another woman during our marriage, but that does not mean she is giving me a green light to have an A. BTW, one of the suspicious OM contacts turned out to be a non-issue. So it's a good thing I did not confront her. If you're ever in a situation where you strongly feel the need to get your spouse to take a polygraph, if you have that little trust in her and she lies that often, you really just need to get out. Having a spouse on a polygraph has never even crossed my mind and I've been in several sketchy circumstances. May be I don't need a polygraph if I somehow accept that lies are needed sometimes to preserve someone's feelings, or to do no harm. if I accept that a radical 100% honesty is an Utopian concept and not something I need to pursue in RL. Edited June 23, 2014 by jjsk Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 . BTW, one of the suspicious OM contacts turned out to be a non-issue. So it's a good thing I did not confront her. Good to hear, one less distraction. May be I don't need a polygraph if I somehow accept that lies are needed sometimes to preserve someone's feelings, or to do no harm. White lies, yes. Outright soul-killing deception, no... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 So...I'm curious...what's your plan going forward, JJSK? I get that you're tired of snooping. To me, that means that all you can do at this point is accept your wife's word on what happened, and move forward. What's your plan, and what's your next step from here? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Do you plan to stay married no matter what you find out? You've asked if you're paranoid... Maybe? Maybe not... Either way, your W seems to want to bury any truth between you two. Is that good enough for you? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author jjsk Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 The plan is to work on the problem. I understand the internet is cheering for the divorce, for the most part . The forum also concluded that if my wife lied about an "EA" or some other small thing then she is on a slippery slope and will have much bigger affairs, including giving blow jobs to strippers. lol. I'm not so convinced Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 The plan is to work on the problem. I understand the internet is cheering for the divorce, for the most part . The forum also concluded that if my wife lied about an "EA" or some other small thing then she is on a slippery slope and will have much bigger affairs, including giving blow jobs to strippers. lol. I'm not so convinced OK...not sure I understand. What is the 'problem', specifically? That she had an EA? That you're not sure what she did? That you're not sure you trust her at this point? And what, specifically, are you doing to "work on" it? Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 So what, exactly, have you determined to be "the problem?" I can't see where anyone here has determined a conclusion - based on lack of evidence = there is no conclusion YET. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jjsk Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 So what, exactly, have you determined to be "the problem?" I can't see where anyone here has determined a conclusion - based on lack of evidence = there is no conclusion YET. It seems to me that - she had something like an EA or an emotional closeness to a coworker, not realizing that it was an A - she did not tell me about it because she was "protecting" my feelings. - it's unlcear if OM was in love with her, but she was not - she was not physically attracted to the OM ,nor was she going to sleep with him. it's the line neither of them would cross and they've established that early on (according to my WS) - yes it was wrong to not tell me about it and she agreed - we did not have any clearly defined rules of what was not acceptable, other than extramarital sex. I guess the problem is that we need to rebuild trust somehow and establish some basic boundaries that we should stay within if we want to be together. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 It seems to me that - she had something like an EA or an emotional closeness to a coworker, not realizing that it was an A - she did not tell me about it because she was "protecting" my feelings. - it's unlcear if OM was in love with her, but she was not - she was not physically attracted to the OM ,nor was she going to sleep with him. it's the line neither of them would cross and they've established that early on (according to my WS) - yes it was wrong to not tell me about it and she agreed - we did not have any clearly defined rules of what was not acceptable, other than extramarital sex. I guess the problem is that we need to rebuild trust somehow and establish some basic boundaries that we should stay within if we want to be together. So you need a new agreement with her outlining what's expected...? When do you plan to have that conversation? Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I guess the problem is that we need to rebuild trust somehow and establish some basic boundaries that we should stay within if we want to be together. OK...there ya go. That is an actionable goal. So...what's your PLAN on reaching this goal? How do you plan on rebuilding trust, establish boundaries, and ensue that you both stay within them? My recommendation is marriage counseling for a start. There are also several good books you might look for to help you along these lines as well. "The Five Love Languages" by Chapman is a good start, along with "His Needs/Her Needs" and "Surviving an Affair" by Harley. The counseling is the most critical aspect of this, however. Link to post Share on other sites
mikethemechanic Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) <There> is an article entitled "More than just friends? 7 secret tests of attraction" these tests should help determine the emotional fidelity of your wife towards you, or towards om. Edited June 24, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Commercial link redacted Link to post Share on other sites
Author jjsk Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 I'm getting tired of researching and giving feedback to my wife when she is not asking for it. I still love her. But I think I may stop putting any effort into this and let the marriage die a slow death. I'm not going to divorce now because I'm emotionally and physically drained. I don't care if she divorces me... Whatever happens so be it. I'm sick of this.. Link to post Share on other sites
atreides Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 When I asked if my wife wanted to know if I ever had an affair she said NO. Unless I can't keep my mouth shut and want to be selfish, then I can tell her. It sounds like living a lie I will never understand that type of thinking, it has no logic, no reason, no rationale that can be soundly argued. It is just nonsense and yet so many on LS try to argue it. It is the calling card of the guilty mind. In other words, the marriage means nothing when i hear that said, having faith or love in your significant other is meaningless with this type of thinking. It is as you said, "living a lie" but to add to it... similar to novel/movie "the beach" the illusion and lie must be maintained at all costs because that is as your wife would say "unselfish." OP today you are beaten but it is only one battle of many... tomorrow is another day and another battle. Owl has some good advice, but please don't let it die before your eyes, to paraphrase a famous quote... bad things happen because good men do nothing. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I'm getting tired of researching and giving feedback to my wife when she is not asking for it. I still love her. But I think I may stop putting any effort into this and let the marriage die a slow death. I'm not going to divorce now because I'm emotionally and physically drained. I don't care if she divorces me... Whatever happens so be it. I'm sick of this.. Really? All you need to do (according to you) to be satisfied at this point AND moving forward is to make a new agreement with your wife. Yet... Instead you just won't? Your solution is to ignore talking to her about your resentments and ignore simply setting new boundaries? Come on - it's simple - outline a new agreement and see if she is willing to live by that guideline. I don't understand just throwing in the towel when you have the chance to set new guidelines. What's with that? Are you afraid of your wife? Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Apathy isn't a plan. If your goal is divorce...then you need to start making divorce happen. If your goal is to rebuild your marriage...then you need to start making that happen. Sitting there doing nothing hoping your marriage dies a slow, painful death...neither a goal, nor a plan. What are you hoping we can do to support you, OP? Link to post Share on other sites
Author jjsk Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 As far as I'm concerned I'm already dead, the marriage is dead, it means nothing to my wife, she does not love me ( I understand it's hard to love a basket case). Not sure how LS can help. she is reading "The Divorce Remedy". Are there any other recommendations specifically for WS? books about surviving affairs don't exactly make sense to her because she did *not* have an affair from her standpoint. EA is a strange animal as it makes her think she did nothing wrong. "OM was a friend, or a confidant, there was no romance or sex, there was no betrayal" So she does not understand what exactly was wrong with it. I cannot leave and be by myself - it makes things worse, the daemons come. I won't be possible to go NC because of the kids. But I can't be around her either. When I make eye contact with her there is no connection - just a frigid stare. She says she wants to help me... I probably need to start on some medication even though I hate pills. I've tried smoking a couple of times and it helped but I'm concerned that it's not the right thing to do. (is there a possible medical use for weed in this case?). I'm not abusing alcohol and have never done drugs, or had any addiction problems. I know this will pass and will be brighter days, it just doesn't feel like it at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 So basically, you have no hope, and don't intend to do anything to try to change things. You're right...I've got nothing for you. Get some individual counseling to help you cope with what's going on in your life. You need professional level guidance you're not gonna find on the internet. That's my parting advice. Good luck,friend. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
mikethemechanic Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 As far as I'm concerned I'm already dead, the marriage is dead, it means nothing to my wife, she does not love me ( I understand it's hard to love a basket case). Not sure how LS can help. she is reading "The Divorce Remedy". Are there any other recommendations specifically for WS? books about surviving affairs don't exactly make sense to her because she did *not* have an affair from her standpoint. EA is a strange animal as it makes her think she did nothing wrong. "OM was a friend, or a confidant, there was no romance or sex, there was no betrayal" So she does not understand what exactly was wrong with it. I cannot leave and be by myself - it makes things worse, the daemons come. I won't be possible to go NC because of the kids. But I can't be around her either. When I make eye contact with her there is no connection - just a frigid stare. She says she wants to help me... I probably need to start on some medication even though I hate pills. I've tried smoking a couple of times and it helped but I'm concerned that it's not the right thing to do. (is there a possible medical use for weed in this case?). I'm not abusing alcohol and have never done drugs, or had any addiction problems. I know this will pass and will be brighter days, it just doesn't feel like it at the moment. You are 100% right let it run it's due course after all the last thing that you need is a stalking charge. 14 years ago my wife left me for om and I still haven't recovered from it. probably never will for me it's a handicap like chronic pain syndrome. truth be told there is very little that can be done on your end since if you start divorce proceedings it'll end coming from your pocket book. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I think you could benefit from professional guidance. Individual counseling could help you overcome the fears that define you. It could help if you present a list to who's helping you which may look like this: I wish to change these things about myself... Stop yelling at my family Stop yelling at new people Find out why I intend to hurt new people I meet Find out why I tell my wife I love her when I think she's cheated Find out where my boundary is that makes ME healthy Understand better to overcome my childhood experiences Learn new ways to communicate effectively What it looks like when a person earns my trust How to control MY feelings How not to control everyone I love How to live and be happy with myself How to have appropriate boundaries in sharing info with my kids about me and my wife What healthy forgiveness might look like How to build intimacy within my marriage How to help my wife feel safe when she's with me How to make NEW friends by being a friend to others How to learn about my wife, my marriage and whether or not to trust her How to honor myself How to build my self esteem How to live a life of balance Can you seek help for yourself with those concepts in mind? Did you hand the list to the counselor when you went last week? What are you working on to improve your way you participate? What actions are you DOING that are new for you? Link to post Share on other sites
Author jjsk Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 Did you hand the list to the counselor when you went last week? What are you working on to improve your way you participate? What actions are you DOING that are new for you? I did bring the list. We could only address one or two items. I don't think this MC specializes in marriage or infidelity. It feels that he wants to end sessions quickly and get me out of his office. I want to try a different MC. Not sure how to find a good reputable one. I'm willing to pay out of pocket if insurance plan doesn't cover it. Is there something like a MC review site that will help me find the right professional? Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I did bring the list. We could only address one or two items. I don't think this MC specializes in marriage or infidelity. It feels that he wants to end sessions quickly and get me out of his office. I want to try a different MC. Not sure how to find a good reputable one. I'm willing to pay out of pocket if insurance plan doesn't cover it. Is there something like a MC review site that will help me find the right professional? As I said, I don't think that MC is what you need right now. You need some individual counseling to help you work through your apathy, your inability to be by yourself, and whatever issues you're dealing with. Frankly...it sounds like both of you are broken. Your wife has massive issues, engaged in an EA but refuses to even acknowledge it, and all of this adds to your issues as well. You don't want divorce...but don't want to work out how to save your marriage. IC is your next step. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I did bring the list. We could only address one or two items. I don't think this MC specializes in marriage or infidelity. It feels that he wants to end sessions quickly and get me out of his office. I want to try a different MC. Not sure how to find a good reputable one. I'm willing to pay out of pocket if insurance plan doesn't cover it. Is there something like a MC review site that will help me find the right professional? Ask your regular doctor for referrals - you need help first with your own self. Focus on that for a long while - allow your wife to do what she's going to do without trying to control her. See what she brings to the table. See if there's a psychologist that will work with you on cognitive therapy. From what you've posted - I can't tell if your W actually cheated or the way you've imagined it is affecting reality. You really need to sort out reality - and that happens best without being altered by alcohol and/or drugs. See what reality looks like for you and take action to become your best self. Over time - maybe your wife will be doing the same for herself. If not, that tells you something very important. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jjsk Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 From what you've posted - I can't tell if your W actually cheated or the way you've imagined it is affecting reality. She cheated by going out to long tete-a-tete lunches with drinks, or to happy hours, by discussing our marriage problems, by talking about intimate things with the OM. She was hiding this from me knowing I would be against it, then she lied about it more when I confronted her. She does not deny that. She thinks going out with the man was not wrong, but she agrees it was wrong to lie to me. I believe her that there was no sex. Thanks for the advice . I will look for IC. I guess an anti-depressant is still a reality altering drug which is why I'm so against taking it. But it might save me from going completely insane. Link to post Share on other sites
mikethemechanic Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) jjsk when I went through a divorce I just couldn't get over the fact that ww could have had feelings for the om. many a counselor tried to give me strategies on how to rekindle love, passion and romance into our relationship. However one thing that I didn't take into account is that ww may have been in love with om. here's an article I thought that you might find interesting. <Your Brain in Love - Scientific American> Edited June 26, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Redacted commercial link Link to post Share on other sites
mikethemechanic Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 jjsk I hope that your silence hasn't confirmed what I said! Link to post Share on other sites
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