On Marriage

[firmness]

In reading so many posts here about getting married and the challenges that come with it, I am struck by one particular thought that I just cannot seem to shake – that marriage is often a horrible idea for one of the parties involved. It becomes clearer to me over time as I gain life experience.

 

 

People also seem to struggle with the difference between the terms “Marriage” and “Partnership”.

Marriage is a contract issued by the state in which you live. The terms and conditions of that contract are not stated up front. In addition, these terms and conditions can change at any time without our knowledge or approval. These terms and conditions are almost always against one party’s best interests. In other words, marriage is a contract to protect everyone involved AGAINST one of you. Furthermore, you can only find the most current Terms and Conditions in divorce court – and this too varies by State, locality, the mood of the judge, and the quality/”skill” of the lawyers involved.

 

 

It is so blatantly unfair at times that another contract (a prenup) is required to undo some of the unfairness. It seems that the government must provide significant financial incentives for people to sign the contract because in the absence of this tax/medical benefits incentive, fewer people would sign up for it. That speaks volumes to me.

 

 

“Partnership” on the other hand, at its finest, is a living breathing beautiful thing that is negotiated and nurtured by two people and remains exclusively between the two of them as they grow and develop. It allows them to be human and to stay connected to each other without threats, laws, financial devastation, and the emotional aftermath that comes with divorce. Of course all these bad things can happen with a Partnership as well; it is just not codified in law and enforced at the end of a gun. And let’s make no mistake about it - if you try to evade the law your ass WILL go to jail. And you will not be taken there by friendly guys with ice cream and flowers. ALL laws are ultimately enforced this way.

 

 

You can have a partnership AND a marriage, but they are most definitely separate things. For either arrangement you can also have contracts, ceremonies, white dresses, rings, babies, cars, houses, vacations, families and even a household pet.

 

A best friend can be a partnership, just without the romance. A mentor, a parent, a boss, a sibling and a neighbor can all be quite intimate relationships in a variety of ways, but no contracts are needed for these beautiful relationships. In fact to propose such an arrangement would essentially kill the trust and poison the relationship! If one of my good friends were to present me with a “friendship license” and my family were to pressure me into signing off on it with cute little jokes, I would be so deeply disturbed and sad I cannot even tell you how devastating that would be to me.

 

 

I am surprised that after two decades of the internet and our ability to learn from each other, these simple realities are not well understood.

What do you think?

[Grumpybutfun]

I think people go into partnerships and marriages without being healthy and whole themselves and are still trying to feed their ego or self esteem and miss the entire point of sharing their lives with someone else.

I also know that negotiation and learning how to discuss issues with another person is a foreign concept to most people because most believe in fairytales and happily ever after.

Number one rule of my marriage or partnership is treat the other person like someone you love...always....even when you are discussing the hard topics and always be kind and considerate in making decisions and placing boundaries. We didn't get married because the government wanted us to or because of tax breaks. Like I said, to some of us it is tradition and that is important to us who raise families and make life commitments.

If the paper isn't important to you, then just let the other person know. Many have great relationships without it. I am a traditionalist and love that we are paper certified, but it wouldn't be necessary for me to love and adore her and build a family or home with her. I just prefer it as did she. Divorce isn't an option and so the threat of it or dissolution isn't something we fear. Not because we are afraid of divorce but because out lives are better with each other in it. We have been married for twenty years and it keeps getting easier and easier because we keep getting closer and closer. The paper means nothing really if people don't want to be in a union. However for us who do, it can mean commitment and longevity. I don't see it as a contract but as a promise.

Marriage is easily the best thing I have ever done and I have done a great deal in my forty years here on this earth. My wife I and I are true partners and when we disagree or fight, it is always with humor or tenderness for our opponent. After all, learning to negotiate and fight has been worth it because we both feel safe and secure and are healthy enough to understand that love is not enough to get the big hurdles out of the way when they come at you in life.

There are many successful unions, partnerships, marriages, long term commitments out there that you never hear of because the squeaky wheel gets the oil. We are out here, the happy ones who have great marriages and are very happy with our spouses.

Best,

Grumps

Edited June 16, 2014 by Grumpybutfun

[CherryT]

 

“Partnership” on the other hand, at its finest, is a living breathing beautiful thing that is negotiated and nurtured by two people and remains exclusively between the two of them as they grow and develop. It allows them to be human and to stay connected to each other without threats, laws, financial devastation, and the emotional aftermath that comes with divorce. Of course all these bad things can happen with a Partnership as well; it is just not codified in law and enforced at the end of a gun. And let’s make no mistake about it - if you try to evade the law your ass WILL go to jail. And you will not be taken there by friendly guys with ice cream and flowers. ALL laws are ultimately enforced this way.

 

You can have a partnership AND a marriage, but they are most definitely separate things. For either arrangement you can also have contracts, ceremonies, white dresses, rings, babies, cars, houses, vacations, families and even a household pet.

 

A best friend can be a partnership, just without the romance. A mentor, a parent, a boss, a sibling and a neighbor can all be quite intimate relationships in a variety of ways, but no contracts are needed for these beautiful relationships. In fact to propose such an arrangement would essentially kill the trust and poison the relationship! If one of my good friends were to present me with a “friendship license” and my family were to pressure me into signing off on it with cute little jokes, I would be so deeply disturbed and sad I cannot even tell you how devastating that would be to me.

 

 

I am surprised that after two decades of the internet and our ability to learn from each other, these simple realities are not well understood.

What do you think?

 

If you're in a domestic partnership (meaning, not married but living together, building a life together) you are still subject to certain "common-law" laws. Depending on certain countries, states, etc. When a common-law relationship ends and there are a lot of joint assets (a home, cars, etc.) one or both partners can choose to fight for what is "theirs". So, even if you're not married but in a partnership, you can still have these 'legal' issues. I've actually seen this happen... a friend of mine was getting a divorce and a co-worker of mine at the time was breaking up with their common-law partner. The divorce was actually quite smooth while the common-law relationship was very bitter and they fought about every last thing.

 

Yes, there are no 'license' to other relationships like friends or colleagues/bosses etc. But how many of those people are you sharing assets with? If you were sharing finances, assets, etc with friends or colleagues and your relationship ended, I'm sure there would be similar issues. Just like how you see many friendships end when two friends go into business together.

 

It makes it more evident to me that marriage or partnerships may not be the issue but the people in the relationships. If you're in a relationship and you see marriage as this terrible contract, then please don't do it. There are a lot of people out there who just don't want to get married. I didn't think I wanted to get married. I wanted to have a life-partner and if we built a life together without getting married, then I was happy as well. But my husband wanted to get married and I didn't see marriage as this big negative contract like you. It was easily the best thing I've ever done. It's worked out great for us and we haven't had it easy... We've endured a lot more than most married couples and we got through it without really any disagreements. When we do fight, just like Grumpybutfun, we do it from a place of love. There is no pointing the finger or name calling. We are both human and understand we have our moments. At the end, we both know that we both do things for the better of each other, so when we do argue or disagree, it comes from a place of love and consideration. And not a place of blame or resentment.

 

Sometimes, it's knowing who you're marrying and putting in the work. It's also knowing what each of you want out of this relationship and life. What you're both wanting to work towards. If marriage is not something for you, don't do it. I find most people do it without being wholeheartedly in it and then blame 'marriage' as the issue for the crumble of a relationship.

Edited June 17, 2014 by CherryT

[Kelemvor]

In reading so many posts here about getting married and the challenges that come with it, I am struck by one particular thought that I just cannot seem to shake – that marriage is often a horrible idea for one of the parties involved. It becomes clearer to me over time as I gain life experience.

 

 

People also seem to struggle with the difference between the terms “Marriage” and “Partnership”.

Marriage is a contract issued by the state in which you live. The terms and conditions of that contract are not stated up front. In addition, these terms and conditions can change at any time without our knowledge or approval. These terms and conditions are almost always against one party’s best interests. In other words, marriage is a contract to protect everyone involved AGAINST one of you. Furthermore, you can only find the most current Terms and Conditions in divorce court – and this too varies by State, locality, the mood of the judge, and the quality/”skill” of the lawyers involved.

 

 

It is so blatantly unfair at times that another contract (a prenup) is required to undo some of the unfairness. It seems that the government must provide significant financial incentives for people to sign the contract because in the absence of this tax/medical benefits incentive, fewer people would sign up for it. That speaks volumes to me.

 

 

“Partnership” on the other hand, at its finest, is a living breathing beautiful thing that is negotiated and nurtured by two people and remains exclusively between the two of them as they grow and develop. It allows them to be human and to stay connected to each other without threats, laws, financial devastation, and the emotional aftermath that comes with divorce. Of course all these bad things can happen with a Partnership as well; it is just not codified in law and enforced at the end of a gun. And let’s make no mistake about it - if you try to evade the law your ass WILL go to jail. And you will not be taken there by friendly guys with ice cream and flowers. ALL laws are ultimately enforced this way.

 

 

You can have a partnership AND a marriage, but they are most definitely separate things. For either arrangement you can also have contracts, ceremonies, white dresses, rings, babies, cars, houses, vacations, families and even a household pet.

 

A best friend can be a partnership, just without the romance. A mentor, a parent, a boss, a sibling and a neighbor can all be quite intimate relationships in a variety of ways, but no contracts are needed for these beautiful relationships. In fact to propose such an arrangement would essentially kill the trust and poison the relationship! If one of my good friends were to present me with a “friendship license” and my family were to pressure me into signing off on it with cute little jokes, I would be so deeply disturbed and sad I cannot even tell you how devastating that would be to me.

 

 

I am surprised that after two decades of the internet and our ability to learn from each other, these simple realities are not well understood.

What do you think?

 

No, you're right on the money. Marriage is a contract that virtually always shifts leveraging power in one party's favor. It's an archaic and ingrained societal construct that many people pursue simply because it's what they think they are supposed to do in life. I agree with all that's said.. if it isn't for you...then it isn't for you. No one can tell you differently. I will say that although I'm romantic and enjoy dating women, etc.. After one expensive divorce, I am horribly reticent to marry again. Why? I simply can't afford it. 9/10 I would be the primary breadwinner with a significant differential in income potential and divorce would simply devastate me. It would delay retirement for me by at least 10 years. Although we've come a long way in gender equality, I find divorce court to still be incredibly gender biased with husbands standing to lose and wives standing to gain in the majority of split ups (though not all). Pre-nup? That's the only way that I would do it, but then again... no pre-nup is foolproof.

 

I'm not sure what gender you are, but as a man... the longer I've remained single with an active dating life, the longer I've realized just how easy it is to find someone to date or find someone for companionship, etc.. Each love is different, unique, intoxicating, etc. All start out with that maddening infatuation that brings two people together and blinds you to the reality which is that it is a transient stage of the relationship and although you can really enjoy being with someone, eventually the passion and lust cools, the affection remains, the eyes wonder, and you settle into a mundane pattern and routine that pulls on your memory and reminds you that you've been there before many times over. At this stage in life, I would only marry if I truly desired to start a family.

 

I have many friends who are married but few that are married and truly happy. I have none with a marriage that I envy.