Failure to Launch

[Thicke2013]

So, my fiance' and I have been engaged for about a month now. We live together on a part time basis. We are very serious and plan on getting married before the end of the year. We are currently looking at buying a house. There is a 14 year age difference between us. She is 48 and I am 34. She has 2 boys, one 27 and the other just turned 25. I have three children. I have two daughters, 16 & 12, and a son who is 6. We all get along good and my kids love her. It's really working out quite well. It's not all peaches and cream or I wouldn't be starting this thread, so here goes the story...

 

Her oldest son is married and has a daughter and a house. Doing pretty well for himself. The youngest has the "failure to launch" syndrome. Like I said, he is 25 and currently has no job and really no motivation. He also has a 6 year old daughter. She bought her condo last year and he moved in with her and she told him he had 6 months to get a job and a place of his own. Obviously that hasn't happened. Hopefully we find a house within the next couple of months in the area we want and our price range. She has told him that once we move, he is on his own. He hasn't much motivation, as he will stay up late and sleep until 2-3 in the afternoon. I have tried to help him find a job with not much luck. He has an assault charge that is 4+ years old that stems from a domestic violence dispute between him and his baby momma. The charge was bogus but it doesn't matter. I mention to him about $9-$10 an hour jobs and he scoffs like he's too good. My fiance and I have had several disagreements about this. She still pays his cell phone, car insurance, etc. The boy has no motivation to get out. She gets very defensive when I suggest getting harder on him.

 

With all of that, what is my role here? I'm not trying to be the boys father for sure. I do help him from time to time. I'd like to be his friend first and foremost. I know he gets depressed when he gets turned down for job or looked over. He is getting extremely discouraged. Honestly, I'd like to help the both of them. I want him to know that I truly want to help him make something out of himself. She feels like a failure because this is so opposite of her. She is a very independent woman and successful too. She does very well for herself and has had very little help along the way. She can't understand why he isn't motivated like she is to do something with herself.

 

Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[WhatYouWantToHear]

Marriage counselling.

 

This could be the downfall of your relationship if you don't set things straight before you get married. I don't know the answer to your problem--maybe its you shutting up and living with it, maybe its you two giving him an ultimatum and time frame. That's up to you to, but you need to work it out, be in agreement and be confident in each other following through with whatever you agree on.

 

Right now this is a small mole that's turned a darker color. Get it checked out as soon as possible so that it doesn't turn into full blown fatal tumor.

[Speakingofwhich]

You've probably explained to him that the $10 an hour job could lead to a better position within the same company?

 

How about going back to school to get better training?

[mrs rubble]

Firstly he's not a "boy" at 25, in fact he's only 9 years younger than you!

Has he ever worked? Does he have qualifications?

If he has no experience he needs to start by volunteering, so he can gain some experience and show potential employers that he's not just the lazy bum on the couch he appears to be!

If he has no qualifications- he needs to get some, depending on what he wants to do.

[todreaminblue]

Difficult situation and I would assume highly frustrating.I see that you have plans in purchasing a house, is there any possibility her son could live in the place he resides in and you as a couple move into the house you intend to buy.If she is a motivated woman she could still handle his financials for him make sure that utilities are paid? i say this because I have an ex who is like a son to me, and we have a mentally impaired son i am however younger than him, he has little education and was illiterate when i met him, he is due restitution of a large sum of money which he would probably end up gifting out money to anyone who asked, he already is saying that he wants me to have some for being there for him, which i dont want , and he would in all likelihood, spend the rest on drugs and alcohol

 

 

 

 

he actually does want independence,he was an orphan so he didnt have opportunities or even an education that would allow him to achieve a full life, but ill get there i dotn give up on people, so I will do my best to make sure that happens, with a small business which i would keep the books for, i would continue to make sure the bills were paid and that he was ok....my son would probably want to live with him and he is 24 too.

 

 

 

I am adaptable, always land on my feet,so I would move and let them have the house..... i have a moral and personal obligation to making sure that they are alright as they are family....which is why i would say your intended gets defensive...the man(my ex) that i speak of, also does volunteer work that he finds satisfying, and he is well liked there, old people love him because he always has time for them.volunteering is a god send honestly and i agree with another poster who suggested it....i wish you well..deb....

[Thicke2013]

Marriage counselling.

 

This could be the downfall of your relationship if you don't set things straight before you get married. I don't know the answer to your problem--maybe its you shutting up and living with it, maybe its you two giving him an ultimatum and time frame. That's up to you to, but you need to work it out, be in agreement and be confident in each other following through with whatever you agree on.

 

Right now this is a small mole that's turned a darker color. Get it checked out as soon as possible so that it doesn't turn into full blown fatal tumor.

 

We are in counseling now. I started counseling last year after leaving my wife of 12+ years. I didn't want to bring baggage from my past into my relationship now. We have only scratched the surface and we only go once a week. I need help on the daily! LOL

 

You've probably explained to him that the $10 an hour job could lead to a better position within the same company?

 

How about going back to school to get better training?

 

Yes I have explained to him that he has to work his way up. Even his mom asked him why he thought he was above starting at the bottom working his way up. Nothing seems to get through.

 

Firstly he's not a "boy" at 25, in fact he's only 9 years younger than you!

Has he ever worked? Does he have qualifications?

If he has no experience he needs to start by volunteering, so he can gain some experience and show potential employers that he's not just the lazy bum on the couch he appears to be!

If he has no qualifications- he needs to get some, depending on what he wants to do.

 

He has worked off and on. He was in the National Guard until this past January. He had a job from February until about a month ago. He just can't hold one and there is always an excuse. Me, I was always taught not to leave one job until you had another, no matter how much you hated it!

 

Difficult situation and I would assume highly frustrating.I see that you have plans in purchasing a house, is there any possibility her son could live in the place he resides in and you as a couple move into the house you intend to buy.If she is a motivated woman she could still handle his financials for him make sure that utilities are paid? i say this because I have an ex who is like a son to me, and we have a mentally impaired son i am however younger than him, he has little education and was illiterate when i met him, he is due restitution of a large sum of money which he would probably end up gifting out money to anyone who asked, he already is saying that he wants me to have some for being there for him, which i dont want , and he would in all likelihood, spend the rest on drugs and alcohol

 

Deb, this was actually the plan. His mom was going to lease him the condo when we purchased a home and let him live there and simply pay the mortgage and put the utilities in his name. That was when he had a job and he and his GF were still together. I still had my reservations about that because I'm sure that she would end up paying all of the bills anyway. Now he is once again unemployed and he and his GF broke up. He makes no effort it seems to better himself and it drives me bananas. I have always been a self-motivated individual for the most part. I got a good job right out of high school and actually bought my first home at age 19. I have at times worked 2-3 jobs to make ends meet so it really rubs me that when we come home after work, the kitchen is piled high with dishes that he didn't bother to clean up and the garbage is overflowing because he didn't feel the need to take it out. Maybe I'm just doing a lot of venting but this is a tough, tough situation I am in. I truly do see the potential he has and he is smarter than he gives himself credit for. I just don't understand the mindset.

[MidwestUSA]

All I can say is I feel for you, and would not recommend marrying into this. My stepdaughter is on her own, but not before bouncing in and out of dad's house for a while. She was 16 when he divorced, and he waited eight years to date due to her lack of direction in life. There is no way I'd have gotten involved if she were still at home.

 

The way things are going, I see your girlfriend supporting this kid for life, unless she learns about tough love. You and I have the same work ethic; it's impossible for me to understand the other mindset. Best of luck to you.

[Thicke2013]

All I can say is I feel for you, and would not recommend marrying into this. My stepdaughter is on her own, but not before bouncing in and out of dad's house for a while. She was 16 when he divorced, and he waited eight years to date due to her lack of direction in life. There is no way I'd have gotten involved if she were still at home.

 

The way things are going, I see your girlfriend supporting this kid for life, unless she learns about tough love. You and I have the same work ethic; it's impossible for me to understand the other mindset. Best of luck to you.

 

She is learning I think, but maybe not as quickly as I'd hoped. She divorced their dad when he was 10 and I think she still feels guilty in a way. Their dad was so immature that he couldn't be a husband or a decent father and still hasn't much to do with his sons. She uses the excuse that he never had a man show him how to be a man. I know that is true but he is 25. At some point in life you have to make your own way. At least in my opinion. Thanks again for the advice. Any ideas on how to broach the subject without putting her on the defensive immediately? I just want "us" to come up with a plan and a timeline and make him stick to it. When I bring that up she asks why it matters so much to me. No chance of me not marrying her. She is the love of my life and I am confident that we can work through it.

[MidwestUSA]

She is learning I think, but maybe not as quickly as I'd hoped. She divorced their dad when he was 10 and I think she still feels guilty in a way. Their dad was so immature that he couldn't be a husband or a decent father and still hasn't much to do with his sons. She uses the excuse that he never had a man show him how to be a man. I know that is true but he is 25. At some point in life you have to make your own way. At least in my opinion. Thanks again for the advice. Any ideas on how to broach the subject without putting her on the defensive immediately? I just want "us" to come up with a plan and a timeline and make him stick to it. When I bring that up she asks why it matters so much to me. No chance of me not marrying her. She is the love of my life and I am confident that we can work through it.

 

It matters to you, because this kid, and her enabling of him, has the potential to affect the rest of your life. There is no good way to bring it up, he's her kid, and she's defensive/protective. Throw in the guilt too; I understand. Hubbie let mom have stepdaughter, and went after her when she was five to get full custody (and succeeded, I might add) to get her out of an abusive situation. So yea, he feels horrible about that. And apparently, stepmother at the time viewed her as competition.

 

 

Keep giving positive input is all I can say. My biggest worry is that stepdaughter will get pregnant, and want to fall back on dad. As much as he assures me he won't let her, there's no way to assure that won't happen. I'm not ready to be a a grandmother!

 

 

Be supportive, but keep your finances protected. You're in a perfect situation for a prenup.

[Thicke2013]

It matters to you, because this kid, and her enabling of him, has the potential to affect the rest of your life. There is no good way to bring it up, he's her kid, and she's defensive/protective. Throw in the guilt too; I understand. Hubbie let mom have stepdaughter, and went after her when she was five to get full custody (and succeeded, I might add) to get her out of an abusive situation. So yea, he feels horrible about that. And apparently, stepmother at the time viewed her as competition.

 

 

Keep giving positive input is all I can say. My biggest worry is that stepdaughter will get pregnant, and want to fall back on dad. As much as he assures me he won't let her, there's no way to assure that won't happen. I'm not ready to be a a grandmother!

 

 

 

 

Be supportive, but keep your finances protected. You're in a perfect situation for a prenup.

 

I do give positive input. I know that her son has had a shortage of positive male role models in his life and I would really like to be one. My worry is just that. Like I said, we are actively looking for a house and actually may go look at one tonight if it is available for showing. She has told him that once the condo sells and we find a house that he is on his own. He must find his own place. I'm not sure I believe her and I know it will cause problems with he and I if he thinks he is going to be moving in with us. Pre-nup isn't necessary as she makes more money than I do. No worries there. She tells me all the time that I do more for him and show him that I am there for him more than anyone else ever has. I want to continue to do that and give him positive reinforcement and as I said, would really like to help him succeed in life. I took him golfing with me yesterday to try and get to know him as a person a little better. I just have a hard time with the lack of effort. You know? I don't mind helping someone who helps him/herself and have been known to go out of my way to help someone. This is just really stressing me out. I don't want to be all excited to move in with my fiance' and then have her adult son move in with us.

[MidwestUSA]

Well, I think you're doing a great job. It's hard when we don't see the progress at the rate we think it should occur, I know!

 

Can you get something concrete from her (even in writing) that he won't be allowed to move back in? I know she'll think her promise is enough, can you go with that?

 

As for a prenup, as long as you're sure. She may make more, but do you have retirement savings? Just sayin'. (Honestly, not trying to be intrusive, it's just that I have a nest egg, and am now thinking about a postnup).

 

Update us tomorrow on the house hunting! It should be an exciting time, not marred by stress.

[Thicke2013]

Well, I think you're doing a great job. It's hard when we don't see the progress at the rate we think it should occur, I know!

 

Can you get something concrete from her (even in writing) that he won't be allowed to move back in? I know she'll think her promise is enough, can you go with that?

 

As for a prenup, as long as you're sure. She may make more, but do you have retirement savings? Just sayin'. (Honestly, not trying to be intrusive, it's just that I have a nest egg, and am now thinking about a postnup).

 

Update us tomorrow on the house hunting! It should be an exciting time, not marred by stress.

 

Getting something in writing isn't a bad idea, but not even sure how to bring that up without hurting feelings. I have tried to get her to use visuals for him to get him motivated. When she first bought the condo a little over a year ago, she told him he had 6 months to get out on his own. I told her to put a calendar on the refrigerator and start marking the days off. Sometimes a little visual aid is all some people need. Thing is, I have told her, he should be busting his a** to find a job and be willing to take a job making a less than desirable wage until he can find something better. He seems to be content with waiting for the perfect job to come along. I have told her that she needs to make living there as uncomfortable as possible to make him want to leave. She needs to stop paying for his cell phone and make him clean everyday he isn't out looking for a job.

[lucy_in_disguise]

I have a brother who failed to launch, the same age as your fiance's son. Without some VERY tough love, which my parents are incapable of giving, i do not see him ever finding a job and moving out.

 

Some people totally lack internal motivation. As someone who fantasized about independence since high school and was out on my own at 18 without ever looking back, it's hard for me to understand, but I've come to the conclusion that my brother is happy to play video games all night and sleep all day, and without serious consequences, is unlikely to change.

 

I think you need to be ready to accept the possibility that you may be supporting him and his kid for the rest of your lives if you get married. If that's not acceptable, postpone the wedding until your fiancé is able to resolve the issue.

 

What kind of father is this guy? Does he have custody?

[MidwestUSA]

I have a brother who failed to launch, the same age as your fiance's son. Without some VERY tough love, which my parents are incapable of giving, i do not see him ever finding a job and moving out.

 

Some people totally lack internal motivation. As someone who fantasized about independence since high school and was out on my own at 18 without ever looking back, it's hard for me to understand, but I've come to the conclusion that my brother is happy to play video games all night and sleep all day, and without serious consequences, is unlikely to change.

 

I think you need to be ready to accept the possibility that you may be supporting him and his kid for the rest of your lives if you get married. If that's not acceptable, postpone the wedding until your fiancé is able to resolve the issue.

 

What kind of father is this guy? Does he have custody?

 

OP is a man. Girlfriend is mom with failure to launch son, 25 years old.

 

 

Other than that, sorry to hear of your brother. Like OP, I struggle to understand it. I couldn't wait to 'grow up'!

[Thicke2013]

I have a brother who failed to launch, the same age as your fiance's son. Without some VERY tough love, which my parents are incapable of giving, i do not see him ever finding a job and moving out.

 

Some people totally lack internal motivation. As someone who fantasized about independence since high school and was out on my own at 18 without ever looking back, it's hard for me to understand, but I've come to the conclusion that my brother is happy to play video games all night and sleep all day, and without serious consequences, is unlikely to change.

 

I think you need to be ready to accept the possibility that you may be supporting him and his kid for the rest of your lives if you get married. If that's not acceptable, postpone the wedding until your fiancé is able to resolve the issue.

 

What kind of father is this guy? Does he have custody?

 

 

He is a very immature father, which I do believe that I have helped him in that area some since being around. He watches pretty intently at how I handle my kids. He does not have custody and only has her 1-2 days a week. A small example of how I believe I have helped is this, typically when he would get his daughter, he would sit on the couch and watch TV or fall asleep while she was there. When I started coming around, I would play games with her and wrestle with her in the floor, you know things we all loved to do as a kid. He took notice pretty quickly. Within a few weeks of him watching me, he was doing the same thing. Now, tomorrow he is going to get her and she is spending the night so he can take her to the condo pool Thursday morning. All by himself which wouldn't have happened this time last year. I honestly believe that he just needs someone to show by example rather than just bark at him which is what he feels like his mom does even though she has never relied on anyone. I think he was too young to remember her struggles and thinks that she just fell into a good job when in reality she worked extremely hard to get to where she is and did it with 2 small kids while working 2 jobs. I want to have a heart to heart with him but I want to make sure that he doesn't think my motivation is to get him out of the way. Make sense? I have to be tactful in my approach.

[MidwestUSA]

I'm so sorry, OP and Lucy! Somehow I got confused. I understood the older son to have kids, but didn't realize FTL had one too. My bad.

 

I need to reread. Wow, one more person (little person) in the mix.

[Thicke2013]

I'm so sorry, OP and Lucy! Somehow I got confused. I understood the older son to have kids, but didn't realize FTL had one too. My bad.

 

I need to reread. Wow, one more person (little person) in the mix.

 

Both of her sons have a daugher. FTL son has a 6 year old. Her other son has a 2 year old. It is a slippery slope to say the least.

[MidwestUSA]

Both of her sons have a daugher. FTL son has a 6 year old. Her other son has a 2 year old. It is a slippery slope to say the least.

 

Yea, like I said, my biggest fear.

 

 

If a child hasn't motivated him to get off his arse, what will? Oh dear.

[preraph]

She'll probably just continue to support him, and you really have no role over him. Your only role is do you marry her or not knowing she's probably going to just keep it up. You said nothing about whether she herself held a full-time job or not. If she doesn't have her own money to pay half, I'd think twice about marrying her anyway. If she has her own money, I wouldn't mix money with her and let her pay half PLUS all his expenses out of her own money, but I think I'd at least draw the line at him living there. Mothers nearly always love their kids more than they love their men, so I wouldn't make her choose unless you were prepared to lose and call it off. I'm honestly wondering, under the circumstances, why you don't just not get married and keep separate living arrangements until and unless she kicks junior out. See, all his life, people have rewarded him for mediocre achievement, probably, and so he thinks he's entitled to a much better job than he deserves. That isn't anything you can change in him overnight.

[ja123]

He sounds depressed. He should see a doctor/psychiatrist for that, as well as a psychologist for some counseling.

 

 

Who knows what internal issues he's facing, but there is clearly an impediment.

 

 

His biological father, mother, or grandparents should strongly encourage him to get evaluated (not you as it's not your place).

[Thicke2013]

She'll probably just continue to support him, and you really have no role over him. Your only role is do you marry her or not knowing she's probably going to just keep it up. You said nothing about whether she herself held a full-time job or not. If she doesn't have her own money to pay half, I'd think twice about marrying her anyway. If she has her own money, I wouldn't mix money with her and let her pay half PLUS all his expenses out of her own money, but I think I'd at least draw the line at him living there. Mothers nearly always love their kids more than they love their men, so I wouldn't make her choose unless you were prepared to lose and call it off. I'm honestly wondering, under the circumstances, why you don't just not get married and keep separate living arrangements until and unless she kicks junior out. See, all his life, people have rewarded him for mediocre achievement, probably, and so he thinks he's entitled to a much better job than he deserves. That isn't anything you can change in him overnight.

 

I did say in an earlier response that she makes more than I do. She is in sales and does very well for herself (over $100k a year). She has always worked and even worked 2-3 jobs when she left their dad years ago to make ends meet. She is a very hard worker and she doesn't understand it either. This morning for the 3-4th time in as many weeks, he borrowed her car last night and didn't return home this morning. She can and does ride to work with me most mornings as we work in the same office building/different companies. She text him this morning and let me read it. She told him that since he continues to disrespect her by not bringing her car back when she needs it, he will not be using it anymore. He has his own car but the rear brakes went out several weeks ago and he hasn't the money to fix it. She also told him that by the end of next week he needs to have a plan for a job and where he is going to live because she is finished with putting her life on hold for him. I'm glad she did this but I reminded her that this is probably the 3rd time in the past year that she has said something of this nature to him. This time she needs to back it up. We will see what happens.

 

He sounds depressed. He should see a doctor/psychiatrist for that, as well as a psychologist for some counseling.

 

 

Who knows what internal issues he's facing, but there is clearly an impediment.

 

 

His biological father, mother, or grandparents should strongly encourage him to get evaluated (not you as it's not your place).

 

I agree he sounds depressed and I really think he is. I don't think he would go though. I have shared with him that I went to therapy and his mom has too. She had rough childhood and her dad was abusive with her mother. Still don't think he will go. Like I said earlier, I have a hard time even seeing what his thought process is. I have always worked for everything I have. I told my fiance' this morning that I wouldn't treat anyone the way he does her, much less my mother. Not sure what to do about it. Thanks again for the replies. It does help even to say it to someone other than my fiance'.

[preraph]

She also told him that by the end of next week he needs to have a plan for a job and where he is going to live because she is finished with putting her life on hold for him. I'm glad she did this but I reminded her that this is probably the 3rd time in the past year that she has said something of this nature to him. This time she needs to back it up.

 

I'm afraid that's exactly what keeps going on. She tells him, he ignores it, and she doesn't have the courage to follow through on her threats, and he knows it. I mean, at the end of next week, does she really have it in her to throw his belongings out to the garage or lawn and then change the locks? I'm guessing no, based on past history, but I hope I'm wrong, for all your sakes!

[jay1983]

When I was 20, I was kicked out of the house for being a lot like him. I was forced to take an $8 per hr job, live with people and pay rent. When I was 21 my girl at the time got pregnant and had my son at 22. 2 of the best things that happened to me. I started brain storming and planing, talking to well established people, taking night classes. It took me a until 28 to see results, but now I have a degree, despite being recently laid off I make good money, own place, car and I provide for my son.

[turnera]

I would tell the fiance that, until he's moved out, you're putting the relationship on hold, as you don't trust her to be able to kick him out, and you are NOT signing on to enabling this MAN once you're married.

[Thicke2013]

When I was 20, I was kicked out of the house for being a lot like him. I was forced to take an $8 per hr job, live with people and pay rent. When I was 21 my girl at the time got pregnant and had my son at 22. 2 of the best things that happened to me. I started brain storming and planing, talking to well established people, taking night classes. It took me a until 28 to see results, but now I have a degree, despite being recently laid off I make good money, own place, car and I provide for my son.

 

Glad you are doing so well for yourself these days and you have found out the true meaning of earning your own way. Good luck as the future looks bright as long as you are willing to work hard at it. Hopefully I can help get the same mentality to rub off on him.

 

I would tell the fiance that, until he's moved out, you're putting the relationship on hold, as you don't trust her to be able to kick him out, and you are NOT signing on to enabling this MAN once you're married.

 

I didn't tell her that I was putting the relationship on hold but I did tell her that I wasn't at all interested in allowing him to move in with us when we purchase a home and that could be really soon as we started the pre-approval loan process this morning. She assured me as she has all along that isn't going to happen. Last night I wasn't with her as I am traveling for work and she sat him down and had a conversation with him that was short and to the point. However this is the 3-4 time in the last year. This time she did sound different when she called me afterwards. Maybe I'm just really hoping that she is done with enabling him but she called and said she told him that when we move he is on his own no matter what. That she is done paying his car insurance and his cell phone bill. The contract on that is up at the end of next month and says she will not renew. In her words he gave the typical answers and excuses that he always does and she cut him short this time and told him she was done with the excuses and done with him and that he needed to get out as soon as possible. Now, that is progress. In other areas of her life when she reaches the point of saying she is done with someone, she is really done. It takes a whole lot to get her to that point and usually when she gets to that point she feels like she can't offer anything else and she completely cuts ties. I don't think she will cut ties with him but I am more optimistic that she will stick to her guns this time. Just today I told him of a job at a local full service car wash that is hiring and they pay cash for the first 2 weeks to make sure you stay before wasting time on the paperwork. We will see if he bites on it. Fingers crossed.