Kid_Charlemange Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 My life had been getting worse and worse. The woman I loved more than anything dumped me, then strung me along for a few months before humiliating me in front of our mutual friends. And then I lost a lot of those friends, too. I was spiraling downwards. I joined a "Men and Relationships" group, which met once a week. Really didn't get much out of it, until the counselor lent me a book, entitled "No More Mister Nice Guy," by Robert Glover. I was shocked. This book was about me. Virtually everything he talked about, was me. From being mistreated by women, to turning off friends, even a hostile work environment. Virtually everything that "Nice Guys" do, I'd done, my whole life. Hell my OKC profile mentioned "Nice Guy." Glover goes into some detail about how the term actually describes someone who isn't all that "nice," someone who's needy, manipulative, secretive, dishonest, compulsive, has low self-esteem, uses "attachments" (nice car, cute GF, fancy clothes) in order to draw attention to himself because he feels, deep down, that on his own he's not that interesting. I thought the book would another of those "how to be an alpha male" pieces of crap. It's not. It makes a compelling case that those who are clear about what they want, actually attract people more than doormats. I'm now going through the book a second time, and working on the exercises. The only real shortcoming of the book is that it doesn't get into all that much about how to fix these things, after it's identified the traits. But that's one of the reasons I teed up this conversation: Anyone else read this, and want to go over some of the items? For those who haven't, check it out... it might possibly have changed my life. Link to post Share on other sites
jphcbpa Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 good book. his online forum is good too. love this regarding finding a RGW Finding a Really Great Woman A man looking for his Really Great Woman wrote: “What do you mean by ‘In order to find a Really Great Woman, you have to go as slowly as possible to find out as quickly as possible what her nature is’? I’m assuming this means moving slowly in the relationship (like not moving into sex too quickly etc), but I was wondering if you could be more specific about moving slowly here?” Most people date unconsciously. They try to get their new crush to like them. They seduce. The fuse. They ignore warning signs. They live in a fantasy world. They rush into sex. They are on their best behavior. They hide anything they think might cause a new crush to judge them negatively. I’ve often said that the way most people date is the worst foundation for building a successful long term relationship. Primarily, going slowly means being conscious. The goal of conscious dating is to find out a woman's nature. For the first few weeks of dating, limit your contact with a woman. See her only once or twice a week. Keep the first few dates casual. You aren’t trying to impress her; you are trying to get to know her. Keep phone chats, texting, and emails to a minimum. As you get to know a woman, introduce her to friends and family. Meet her friends and family. Talk about things that concern you. Don't hide or hold anything back. Stay differentiated. Keep doing the things that are important to you and stay connected to friends. Invite her to be the icing on your great cake of a life. Pay attention to yellow and red flags. Do this by putting a woman into lots of different situations early on in the dating process. As you consciously do this, test to see how she fits your 5/5 (5 things you have to have for a woman to be your Really Great Woman and 5 things you won’t tolerate). Sex often becomes the glue early in a relationship. I suggest you go slowly getting naked with a woman. Create lots of positive emotional tension, but go slowly with the sex. When you jump into sex right away, the blinders come up. If you see things you don't like in a person, you tend to avoid addressing the issues because you don't want to put a stop to regular sex. Also, it is harder to break up with a person you are having sex with because you've become emotionally and sexually fused. Around three months, if a woman looks like she has potential to be your Really Great Woman, dive in. That doesn't mean any kind of long-term relationship commitment, but it does mean getting all in and finding out quickly if she has the potential to be your RGW. I suggest waiting at least three years before engagement or marriage. Living together can be an important part of the process, but I strongly suggest you not make a long-term commitment to someone until you've consciously dated them a couple of years and lived together for at least a year. Going slowly gives a relationship enough time to unfold so you can see the depth of a woman’s nature. I am convinced that it takes a minimum of two to three years of conscious dating to really get to know the depth of a woman. More than once I’ve been surprised at a year or two into dating a woman at the things that would come up that I hadn’t previously seen. Here is one of the most important truth’s I’ve learned about dating: the closer you get to a person, the more you will bump into their defense mechanisms. This often means that things can be cruising along well for a few months, maybe even a year or two. Then all of sudden, something changes. It can be almost anything: she gets depressed, loses interest in sex, becomes preoccupied at work, starts flirting with an ex, just wants to stay at home and watch television, or starts just “mailing it in” in any way. Typically, you get focused on the issue at hand, whatever that may be. But the real issue is she has gone as far as she can in an intimate relationship. You’ve bumped into her unconscious walls of protection (the same thing will happen to you as well). If one or both of you are conscious, you can recognize what is happening and talk about the fear of intimacy (and defense mechanisms) that you each have. Maybe you’ll work through them, maybe you’ll find out that one or both of you are not able to. I guarantee that you will run into this within the first three years of dating. If you have already gotten engaged or married during this time, you are in for a rough ride. Most importantly, be willing to be a good ender. If at any time, you realize that a woman doesn’t seem to have the potential to be a Really Great Match for you, move on. Bottom line, if you go as slowly as possible to find out as quickly as possible what a woman's nature is, you increase the odds of meeting a Really Great Woman who will lighten your load and bless your life. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
GoreSP Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I'm glad you decided to change your situation. As a former (female) doormat, taking the steps to no longer being a doormat was hard. You might notice changes in your circle of friends too. It hurts but it is for the best. You'll make new friends. Do you find this book would be easily transferable for women? Link to post Share on other sites
umirano Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Do you find this book would be easily transferable for women? I haven't read the whole book, but yes, most advice is along the line of 'Respect yourself, before you demand respect from anyone else'. Ofc a lot of the examples are from a man's perspective, but with some wit they can be transferred to a woman's perspective. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Z Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I suggest waiting at least three years before engagement or marriage. Living together can be an important part of the process, but I strongly suggest you not make a long-term commitment to someone until you've consciously dated them a couple of years and lived together for at least a year. Going slowly gives a relationship enough time to unfold so you can see the depth of a woman’s nature. I am convinced that it takes a minimum of two to three years of conscious dating to really get to know the depth of a woman. More than once I’ve been surprised at a year or two into dating a woman at the things that would come up that I hadn’t previously seen. While I agree with the principle, two to three years is nothing. It took me over twenty years to begin to understand my ex wife; and I still don't, but I do understand that she was never the person she pretended to be. I don't know how this works out generally, but I now suspect that with some people, you will never really know them, even if you spend your entire life with them. One of the key lessons I have learned: If you discover that a woman has a sense of entitlement, run like the wind. No matter what you do or how hard you try, it will NEVER be good enough or even appreciated. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
lollipopspot Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I thought the book would another of those "how to be an alpha male" pieces of crap. It's not. It makes a compelling case that those who are clear about what they want, actually attract people more than doormats... The only real shortcoming of the book is that it doesn't get into all that much about how to fix these things, after it's identified the traits. Yeah, the title sounds unfortunate, if it's just about being a self evolved person who is clear about what they want. It seems to me that creating attraction is not the biggest benefit either, but being able to be assertive in your life in all areas. I don't know the book and haven't read it. Have you looked into other assertiveness training books? They might offer ways to help fix the doormat personality. I have a bit of that myself, so I understand. I've been thinking about this same topic so I'll post if I find a book with good exercises Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kid_Charlemange Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 You might notice changes in your circle of friends too. It hurts but it is for the best. You'll make new friends. Yeah. That's what brought this one. I was sort of "used to" being dumped by my SO's. But what put me over the edge was the way that my friends, some of them I've known for 10+ years, basically turned on me in a very short period of time. That's when I realized the common denominator in all these equations was me... and that I need to address that. Do you find this book would be easily transferable for women? Parts of it, definitely. Others, not so much. For instance the author gets into why "Nice Guys" are always trying to please women. One of his theories is that after WW2, public schools became more and more dominated by female teachers. That dovetailed with my own experiences; I think I had maybe one male teacher before 9th grade. So that stuff isn't going to transfer. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kid_Charlemange Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 Have you looked into other assertiveness training books? They might offer ways to help fix the doormat personality. I have a bit of that myself, so I understand. I've been thinking about this same topic so I'll post if I find a book with good exercises Not really, but I've heard about them and am curious. I look forward to your future posts about this topic! Link to post Share on other sites
irishsimon Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 The nice guy forum has much to offer if you are serious about fixing your issues. Look for Ruffwarrior's posts.. Specifically 'the plan'. This is a step by step method to help a nice guy overcome his difficulties. The plan references many texts, books and forum threads to help you in your quest. It won't be easy mind. You have to be really serious about it. Robert Glover also posts some brilliant threads which go a step further than the breaking free exercises in the book. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kid_Charlemange Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 The nice guy forum has much to offer if you are serious about fixing your issues. Thanks. Where is that? Link to post Share on other sites
FitnessRN Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 nothing wrong with being a nice guy...we need more nice guys, but we need guys who are nice and have a backbone Link to post Share on other sites
Col1 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Good for the OP working on self development. What the hell is wrong with these people who are taking advantage of nice people? Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I'm now going through the book a second time, and working on the exercises. The only real shortcoming of the book is that it doesn't get into all that much about how to fix these things, after it's identified the traits. But that's one of the reasons I teed up this conversation: Anyone else read this, and want to go over some of the items? For those who haven't, check it out... it might possibly have changed my life. I haven't read the book, but in terms of fixing some of the things you're talking about...I'm not sure it's as simple as "this part of me is broken, let's fix it." I think that self esteem and self sufficiency are derived in large part from having a strong sense of who you are. What you're good at, what you're not so good at, what code of ethics you try to live by, what sort of temperament you have. Whether the lifestyle you live and the code of honour you try to abide with fit well with that temperament. What are your skills and talents? What things make you feel happy or fulfilled while you're doing them? Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts