My (not unique) story...

[April Moon]

WE'll have to disagree on the concept of 'love" here, I think.

 

I'm not convinced he's in love with the OW...I think he's infatuated by her, by the thought of being with her.

 

You end infatuation by not feeding it, not focusing on it. Which is exactly what I'm suggesting.

 

Everything you are saying is true. However, I'm not entirely convinced he loves his wife. If that is the case, it changes everything.

[Owl]

Everything you are saying is true. However, I'm not entirely convinced he loves his wife. If that is the case, it changes everything.

 

Right now, I'm relatively sure that he DOES NOT love his wife.

 

Love is created when you invest in a relationship. When you feed it.

 

The relationship grows when you invest in it...and your feelings of love for someone are often directly in proportion to how much you invest in that relationship.

 

For the last year...he's been investing in the affair, and NOT investing anything in his relationship to his wife.

 

Perhaps what he felt for OW during the affair was love...but as I stated, I suspect it was more infatuation.

 

But...remove OW, and start investing in the marriage, and those feelings of love for his wife can return.

 

I know...I've seen it happen personally.

[Journee]

WE'll have to diby sagree on the concepas t of 'love" here,the sand I think.mentioning

 

I'm not convinced he's in love with the OW...I think he's infatuated by her, by the thought of being with her.

 

You end infatuation by not feeding it, not focusing on it. Which is exactly what I'm suggesting.

 

 

 

One can watch love whither and die by doing (or not doing I suppose ) the same things mentioned to end infatuation. What a ride.

 

OP, I have little advice as I am in the middle of my own crap storm but I just was curious about something. Do you feel that you and your wife were ever really friends? You have mentioned you can be open to OW in ways you have not been with your W. Has that bond ever been there with your W?

[Owl]

Quoted for truth

 

I love this clip and it helped save my marriage after my affair. Use it just the way Owl is telling you now and just the way he told me to six years ago.

 

Google it shermantor and listen to the wise old bird

 

I'd forgotten...I recommended the same clip to you as well, didn't I? :)

[shermanator]

One can watch love whither and die by doing (or not doing I suppose ) the same things mentioned to end infatuation. What a ride.

 

OP, I have little advice as I am in the middle of my own crap storm but I just was curious about something. Do you feel that you and your wife were ever really friends? You have mentioned you can be open to OW in ways you have not been with your W. Has that bond ever been there with your W?

 

No question my wife and I were great friends... Like I said, a Friday night at Target, going out to dinner with her, etc, was all great... there was nobody I wanted to spend more time with.

 

Like I said, I caused a tremendous amount of trauma to our relationship with my dishonesty. I think that, obviously, caused us to drift apart and instead of fighting to keep us together (I'm not sure I was aware of how bad the chism was), I became wrapped up in something new.

 

As for being open with my W, I don't know. Right now, I can't remember feeling the same way about my W at the beginning of our relationship as I do about the OW. I realize my current situation is coloring those memories, but I don't remember such a strong 'in love' or 'infatuation' stage with my W. It's been a while, though.

 

My relationship with my W, before we were married, was always safe. I never felt like she would walk away, no matter what I did, so I wasn't ever really scared of losing her. During the EA, I didn't feel that way about the OW. Not hearing from her, or thinking about her finding someone else made me really upset...

[sunburned]

My relationship with my W, before we were married, was always safe. I never felt like she would walk away, no matter what I did, so I wasn't ever really scared of losing her. During the EA, I didn't feel that way about the OW. Not hearing from her, or thinking about her finding someone else made me really upset...

 

Can you take one more comment on this sitch? I am quoting the last paragraph of your last comment but I see this throughout your thread. This last graph looks to me like the very epitome of love, vs. obsession. Your quiet safety and security with the woman who would be your wife, vs. your highly emotional reaction/obsession over your OW. That's not love. That is lust/obsession/jealousy/sexual attraction. All normal! But not a reason to leave your W. Give yourself the gift of time. If you can't do those mental exercises (Newhart's Stop It) recommended by Owl and others, then wait it out. I had an A when my marriage was stale (but by no means bad) and I was briefly convinced I was in love with the guy.

 

 

But it was really as previously quoted by WasOtherWoman ... I was distracted by something new and shiny (even though he was a lot older than me!). We are all subjected to being sexually attracted to others from time to time. Character and commitment are built on boundaries. Yours failed. Mine failed. You can rebuild.

 

 

I haven't spent much time on LS recently because I finally feel over my A but stumbled across your post on a re-visit and read through most of it (beginning few pages and end few pages, skipped a lot of middle). In my sitch, there was no dday and I did not disclose. Mine was an EA, with a brief "PA Light" component. So, I have no right to encourage someone else to disclose, but maybe it's the jumpstart you need. Otherwise, I say give it a year of NC and MC and see how you feel. It took me nearly that long to get over an A that was less than 6 mos. It will be a year of NC in August.

 

 

It seems you've taken a dozen years from your wife. Give her at least a year now of your undivided time and attention, even it involves some some fake it 'til you make it. Best of luck to you.

[shermanator]

Right now, I'm relatively sure that he DOES NOT love his wife.

 

Love is created when you invest in a relationship. When you feed it.

 

The relationship grows when you invest in it...and your feelings of love for someone are often directly in proportion to how much you invest in that relationship.

 

For the last year...he's been investing in the affair, and NOT investing anything in his relationship to his wife.

 

Perhaps what he felt for OW during the affair was love...but as I stated, I suspect it was more infatuation.

 

But...remove OW, and start investing in the marriage, and those feelings of love for his wife can return.

 

I know...I've seen it happen personally.

 

My IC said the same thing this week... almost word for word.

 

She said that I seemed really sad... mourning both the loss of the OW and the loss of the marriage that I thought I had. She said that I also seem to have lost a sense of who I am because of what I did (everyone around describes me as a great guy, loyal, good dad, etc)...

 

I have so much guilt about what I've done and how I fell for the OW, it's awful. I spent about 20 minutes looking at pictures of my family from the last year today and I started crying.

[shermanator]

Can you take one more comment on this sitch? I am quoting the last paragraph of your last comment but I see this throughout your thread. This last graph looks to me like the very epitome of love, vs. obsession. Your quiet safety and security with the woman who would be your wife, vs. your highly emotional reaction/obsession over your OW. That's not love. That is lust/obsession/jealousy/sexual attraction. All normal! But not a reason to leave your W. Give yourself the gift of time. If you can't do those mental exercises (Newhart's Stop It) recommended by Owl and others, then wait it out. I had an A when my marriage was stale (but by no means bad) and I was briefly convinced I was in love with the guy.

 

I know... the hardest part for me with the love versus obsession thing is that I first started noticing the OW over a year ago. We built up a close friendship, talked so much, etc, and formed such a strong emotional bond before anything physical happened.

 

Once we both expressed our mutual attraction, it became an obsession or addiction... constant texting, talking, flirting, etc... and even then, we waited a while before starting any real physical contact.

 

Thank you for your post... your situation sounds almost identical to mine.

[shermanator]

 

These two things are diametrically opposed. Focusing on her makes your issues and problems in your marriage insurmountable. Focus on your marriage means the first step you have to take is to let her go...completely, utterly, and totally. Not just physically...but emotionally and mentally as well.

 

So...what do we help you with from here, Sherm? Fixing your marriage, or ending it?

 

My wife and I had this talk tonight... she knows I'm lost, drifting out of our relationship and she wants to know what I want. She asked me, point blank, what do you see for us 5 years from now... and I couldn't give her a straight answer.

 

I don't know what I want. I'm so scared of giving up my life (and 'destroying our family' - my wife's words) and facing the emotional, financial, social hardship... but, so far, I've had NO LUCK forgetting about the OW and erasing her from my mind.

[beach]

What did you tell your wife?

 

What reason does your wife have for your unhappiness in your M?

[waterwoman]

My wife and I had this talk tonight... she knows I'm lost, drifting out of our relationship and she wants to know what I want. She asked me, point blank, what do you see for us 5 years from now... and I couldn't give her a straight answer.

 

I don't know what I want. I'm so scared of giving up my life (and 'destroying our family' - my wife's words) and facing the emotional, financial, social hardship... but, so far, I've had NO LUCK forgetting about the OW and erasing her from my mind.

 

Then reconsider telling her the truth. The poor woman must be going crazy trying to work out what the problem is, what's 'wrong' with her, what's wrong with you. From what you wrote above you don't sound committed to your marriage in the slightest. So give your wife the tools to make the decision for you. As an added 'bonus' seeing her pain and shock may well give you the kick up the arse you so decidely need.

 

It's early days with regard to forgetting about OW. But no amount of time will help unless you actually commit to doing something. It took my H about 8m to 'forget' about OW even though he was 100% committed to leaving her behind and reconciling our marriage. Now he regards his own infatuation with disbelief and embarrassment. But he got there because he had to deal with me, my pain, my need for healing, and the realisation of the enormity of what he had done and risked. You aren't dealing with any of that - you are only facing the pale ghost of it. Crying over photos isn't real, holding your wife while she sobs and shakes, and you know that you did this to her, is.

[cocorico]

My wife and I had this talk tonight... she knows I'm lost, drifting out of our relationship and she wants to know what I want. She asked me, point blank, what do you see for us 5 years from now... and I couldn't give her a straight answer.

 

I don't know what I want. I'm so scared of giving up my life (and 'destroying our family' - my wife's words) and facing the emotional, financial, social hardship... but, so far, I've had NO LUCK forgetting about the OW and erasing her from my mind.

 

Take this whence it comes - I'm a fOW now M to my fMM, so pretty much regarded as the Devil Incarnate around these parts - but my reading of the situation is that you are not able to "make a decision" and fully commit to it because you are scared that it will be the wrong decision.

 

Yes, ideally you should decide which R - if any - allows you to live most authentically and sustainably,,which version of "yourself" you can most comfortably face in the mirror each day.... But when you're mired in analysis paralysis and only the hair shirt of self-loathing feels real, it's time to exercise some agency in your life, time to stop being a passenger before the inexorable slide into clinical depression and further inaction, and the waiting for the passage of time to take the decisions for you.

 

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so". Make a decision, and then make it the right decision by your commitment to it.

 

Most people on this thread are pressuring you to tell your W and commit to the M. A couple have said you should leave your M. I have no dog in the race, and don't care either way which you decide to do - as long as you make the decision and commit to it fully, working at making that decision the right decision, so that when you do look back in, say, five years time... with your W, your OW, some other partner, or alone... you look back confidently and say with conviction that it was the right decision.

 

For Owl's W, the right decision was to stay and commit to her M. For my H, the right decision was to leave his M and commit to our R. For others, other outcomes were right - every story is different, and none will hold the blueprint for you. Only you can. Make your decision, act on it, and make it the right one.

[Owl]

In a lot of ways, I agree with Devil Incarnate...err...LOL!

 

She's right. At the end of the day...pick one relationship, end the other one, and drive the hell on already.

 

Everyone in your situation is hurting because you can't make up your mind.

 

Either choose your wife...or choose your OW.

 

But do something different than you've been doing...otherwise...you'll stay right where you're at.

[goodyblue]

Take this whence it comes - I'm a fOW now M to my fMM, so pretty much regarded as the Devil Incarnate around these parts - but my reading of the situation is that you are not able to "make a decision" and fully commit to it because you are scared that it will be the wrong decision.

 

Yes, ideally you should decide which R - if any - allows you to live most authentically and sustainably,,which version of "yourself" you can most comfortably face in the mirror each day.... But when you're mired in analysis paralysis and only the hair shirt of self-loathing feels real, it's time to exercise some agency in your life, time to stop being a passenger before the inexorable slide into clinical depression and further inaction, and the waiting for the passage of time to take the decisions for you.

 

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so". Make a decision, and then make it the right decision by your commitment to it.

 

Most people on this thread are pressuring you to tell your W and commit to the M. A couple have said you should leave your M. I have no dog in the race, and don't care either way which you decide to do - as long as you make the decision and commit to it fully, working at making that decision the right decision, so that when you do look back in, say, five years time... with your W, your OW, some other partner, or alone... you look back confidently and say with conviction that it was the right decision.

 

For Owl's W, the right decision was to stay and commit to her M. For my H, the right decision was to leave his M and commit to our R. For others, other outcomes were right - every story is different, and none will hold the blueprint for you. Only you can. Make your decision, act on it, and make it the right one.

 

I couldn't have said this better.

 

Good luck Sherm. I hope you find peace in whatever you decide.

[shermanator]

Take this whence it comes - I'm a fOW now M to my fMM, so pretty much regarded as the Devil Incarnate around these parts - but my reading of the situation is that you are not able to "make a decision" and fully commit to it because you are scared that it will be the wrong decision.

 

Yes, ideally you should decide which R - if any - allows you to live most authentically and sustainably,,which version of "yourself" you can most comfortably face in the mirror each day.... But when you're mired in analysis paralysis and only the hair shirt of self-loathing feels real, it's time to exercise some agency in your life, time to stop being a passenger before the inexorable slide into clinical depression and further inaction, and the waiting for the passage of time to take the decisions for you.

 

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so". Make a decision, and then make it the right decision by your commitment to it.

 

Most people on this thread are pressuring you to tell your W and commit to the M. A couple have said you should leave your M. I have no dog in the race, and don't care either way which you decide to do - as long as you make the decision and commit to it fully, working at making that decision the right decision, so that when you do look back in, say, five years time... with your W, your OW, some other partner, or alone... you look back confidently and say with conviction that it was the right decision.

 

For Owl's W, the right decision was to stay and commit to her M. For my H, the right decision was to leave his M and commit to our R. For others, other outcomes were right - every story is different, and none will hold the blueprint for you. Only you can. Make your decision, act on it, and make it the right one.

 

Were there kids involved? Did your current H go right from his marriage to a relationship with you, or did he take some time to be alone first?

[spookysonata]

I think telling your wife will make your choice clear, one way or the other.

[Mr. Lucky]

Most people on this thread are pressuring you to tell your W and commit to the M. A couple have said you should leave your M. I have no dog in the race, and don't care either way which you decide to do - as long as you make the decision and commit to it fully, working at making that decision the right decision, so that when you do look back in, say, five years time... with your W, your OW, some other partner, or alone... you look back confidently and say with conviction that it was the right decision.

If one considers only Sherm's needs, this is good advice.

 

But he has a wife that, before friends and family, he stood up and made a commitment to. And he has children he has brought into that relationship. They're owed his utmost effort to make his marriage work.

 

The "right" decision has to be right for everyone...

 

Mr. Lucky

[joanofark]

In what order should the element of "right" be? Does Sherm come first? or his W, his kids?

[shermanator]

So, I broke NC and told the OW I wanted to be with her. I would have a lot of things to figure out (selling the house, custody, finding my own place to live, etc), but I want her to be a part of my life. I wanted to talk about everything a new relationship (a real relationship, not in the shadows) with me would look like instead of just rushing in. I wanted to make sure she got the full picture (an ex wife, 3 kids, child support?, etc) of what a life together could look like. I want to talk about my kids and how to handle introducing them, eventually.

 

She told me that she's not sure how she feels anymore. Because of how our relationship started (me being married and her engaging with a married man), she's not sure she trusts the feelings that we had for each other. She doesn't want to be the reason I leave and says I still don't know what I want... she's also not sure she'll get over the guilt she feels about what we did.

Edited July 12, 2014 by shermanator

[beach]

So your OW isn't committing and you want to leave your W.

 

Keep the plan to leave your W and then be on your own. I should do you some good - give you time to clear your head.

 

Does your W know why you've been unhappy in the M?

[Oberfeldwebel]

She told me that she's not sure how she feels anymore. Because of how our relationship started (me being married and her engaging with a married man), she's not sure she trusts the feelings that we had for each other. She doesn't want to be the reason I leave and says I still don't know what I want... she's also not sure she'll get over the guilt she feels about what we did.

 

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we practice to deceive.

[spookysonata]

I agree that you don't know what you want. I think seeing your wife devastated over your affair would have you rethinking your desire to be with the OW (even if you don't think so now).

 

Responsible separation might be a good idea, but your wife would have to know the whole story. If you really want to leave her, the very least you could do as a decent human being is tell her why. I don't blame OW for being wary of you...who wants a guy who would sneak away from a marriage like a thief in the night.

 

One way or another, get your head on straight.

[waterwoman]

The logic escapes me! The one person who is not in this marriage is the one person who appears to be deciding its future.

[Scarlet2]

Your OW is cautious and holding back due to the fact that you are not divorced yet. So many posts say the MM will say he's getting divorced but it drags on and nothing happens. She'll be the woman you remember when it's finalized. She was drawn to you before, she will be again once you get everything lined up. She's protecting herself right now.

[CarrieT]

Interesting that you decided to talk to the OW before telling your wife. Now that the OW has back-pedaled, is your wife a safety net?

 

Meaning - do you want to continue with the marriage or were you only leaving your wife and family for this OW?

 

Because - having been an OW - I can tell you that you should NEVER leave a marriage for another relationship. One should leave a marriage for one's self and never for another person.

 

If you are sincere that you do not believe your marriage is going to survive, then you should leave your marriage for YOU, build on your own self-worth and reasons for existence.

 

Honestly, I believe you had idealized this OW and a future together with her was all daisies and bunnies and doughnuts, but when/if it happened, you might very well have found yourself in a situation that you did not and could not anticipate and you ultimately would not have been happy: BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT HAPPY WITH YOURSELF.

 

I'm sort of glad the OW back-pedaled and is unsure. You really need to come clean with your wife on your feelings and consider individual counseling to figure out what you really want.