My (not unique) story...

[merrmeade]

Her drama and toxic vibe started way before the EA or the DDay in our MC, which occurred months ago. She doesn't know that I had some LC with the OW over the last couple months. Her catastrophizing and projecting and mind reading have been issues for a long time with us.

 

I might be a jerk, but I wouldn't level my wife emotionally then say, 'deal with it. Stop being so dramatic.

whatever.

 

We know little if anything about how she really feels. But we certainly know that her issues are not taken seriously. We know how you deal with " catastrophizing and projecting and mind reading." You minimize and ridicule. Does your dismissive "stop being so dramatic" shut her up as well? How do you THINK she feels when you say or imply she's exaggerating? Is it before or after her reaction that you call it catastrophizing? And why is she mind reading anyway? Seeking intimacy perhaps?

 

I'll bet you've said "stop being dramatic" or the equivalent many times, basically f--k off, leave you alone. Does it work with her? What kinds of women does it work on? It certainly worked on me for a few days, and I was totally willing to leave you alone. But then I reread your post more carefully. Just the three labels you dropped said reams about how you relate. For her sake, I came back.

 

Not that I think you'll listen to me nor do I care enough to put up with another sneaky last-minute disrespect like that. No, you're much better off with most of these guys. As men of compassion and experience with intellectualized bravado, they can help With some of your limitations and vulnerabilities.

Edited April 9, 2015 by merrmeade

[lisbon67]

I'm with mermaid on this 100 per cent ..!!

 

The betrayed spouse. ..is not well..

hurting...struggling to cope...not herself...in agony really. ..ferlang all sorts of horrible emotions and feelings...not thinking straight. ..

and yet....

The person who is doing the betrayal. ..

somehow takes the moral high ground. ...

and thinks only of himself...

"Stop all this drama and give me a break..."

Not a quote from Op obviously. ..but that is what he is saying.....

its shameful really. ..you are the cause of your wife's agony...

does empathy even come into your dictionary. ..?

Shameful....

put yourself on your wife's shoes. ...

Even for one thinking minute...

[cocorico]

 

In MC the other day, my wife said that it seems like I don't like her anymore. She can tell that I still love her, but she feels like I don't like her. I think that's kind of accurate, which makes me really sad.

 

Ouch!

 

Why are you reconciling?

[lisbon67]

"Drama and toxic vibe"

 

Jeez. .is that rich or what....

 

Who caused it ??

[lisbon67]

From psychology today.....

 

A man, especially a philandering man, may feel comfortable having sex with a woman if it is clear that he is not in love with her. Even when a man understands that a rule has been broken and he expects consequences of some sort, he routinely underestimates the extent and range and duration of the reactions to his betrayal. Men may agree that the sex is wrong, but may believe that the lying is a noble effort to protect the family. A man may reason that outside sex is wrong because there is a rule against it, without understanding that his lying establishes an adversarial relationship with his mate and is the greater offense. Men are often surprised at the intensity of their betrayed mate's anger, and then even more surprised when she is willing to take him back. Men rarely appreciate the devastating long-range impact of their infidelities, or even their divorces, on their children.

[lisbon67]

Symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder

 

In order for a person to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) they must meet five or more of the following symptoms:

 

Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

Requires excessive admiration

Has a very strong sense of entitlement, e.g., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

Is exploitative of others, e.g., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

Lacks empathy, e.g., is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

Regularly shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

[shermanator]

Ouch!

 

Why are you reconciling?

 

Because we have a nice house, 3 kids and a seemingly 'decent' enough life together.

[shermanator]

"Drama and toxic vibe"

 

Jeez. .is that rich or what....

 

Who caused it ??

 

I admit to hurting my wife, but I am NOT the sole cause of her personality issues. In her own IC, she's identified several causes.

[shermanator]

Symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder

 

In order for a person to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) they must meet five or more of the following symptoms:

 

Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

Requires excessive admiration

Has a very strong sense of entitlement, e.g., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

Is exploitative of others, e.g., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

Lacks empathy, e.g., is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

Regularly shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

 

I guess you're posting this because, after having read some of my posts on a message board, you're trying to diagnose me? Maybe I'm wrong, but that seems a little pre-mature. In my IC, I've been called things but NPD hasn't been one of them.

[shermanator]

Reading other posts and thinking about my M, I don't even think I'd be upset if I found out my W had an A. I would be surprised, for sure, but I don't get a pit in my stomach or anything when I think about it.

 

That's a big sign for the current state of our relationship, right?

[Bittersweetie]

Reading other posts and thinking about my M, I don't even think I'd be upset if I found out my W had an A. I would be surprised, for sure, but I don't get a pit in my stomach or anything when I think about it.

 

That's a big sign for the current state of our relationship, right?

 

I posted recently in another thread about this kind of statement, something that seems like a common statement from WS. I thought this as well when in my A. I believe it has to do with the fact that a WS doesn't want to be the bad guy. In my thinking, if my H had an A too, and we broke up, then it wouldn't be my fault. I wouldn't be the bad guy.

 

But the fact of the matter is, the WS is the bad guy. I'm not so sure that this train of thought is about the marriage and relationship, but more about you and coming to terms with who you are right now and what you have done.

[Mr. Lucky]

Because we have a nice house, 3 kids and a seemingly 'decent' enough life together.

 

I wonder if you've instinctively listed those in descending order as far as your priorities go.

 

If so, it begs a chicken/egg question:

 

Do you have an unsatisfying marriage because of your wife? Or do you have an unsatisfied wife because of the way you've approached your marriage?

 

Mr. Lucky

[stillcold]

Your general happiness in life, or your marriage in this case specifically, will be determined by how you measure it. Many people would have measured your marriage from their standards and would have been 'very happy' whereas some, like you, would call it 'decent'.

 

So the point is, how you view your marriage and your wife depends on how you measure it. Many people in life tend to measure things by not what they currently have, but what they currently don't have; I feel this applies directly to you as you logically know what you have in terms of your marriage/life is good, but you don't feel what you have is good. This is because of what standards you are trying to measure your marriage with and to that I would say this: change your standards.

 

The OW is now your new standard, and therein lies the problem: you. Why is the problem you? The problem is not because you have OW and an affair, but it's because you felt the need to have one. Look deep into yourself, mentally challenge yourself, ask yourself why you are not happy, and find reasons to be happy. Logically question yourself and convince yourself why you should be happy, and go through that mental struggle and battle with yourself until you are convinced of what you what. Many people go to therapy for things like need this, but the reality is that therapists only tell you what you have to do and they don't do it for you; so start now, and do some soul searching.

[BetrayedH]

Reading other posts and thinking about my M, I don't even think I'd be upset if I found out my W had an A. I would be surprised, for sure, but I don't get a pit in my stomach or anything when I think about it.

 

That's a big sign for the current state of our relationship, right?

 

Of course it wouldn't upset you; it would simply relieve you of your guilt. She would have lost the moral high ground. It's ridiculous to compare your hypothetical to being blindsided.

[shermanator]

I wonder if you've instinctively listed those in descending order as far as your priorities go.

 

If so, it begs a chicken/egg question:

 

Do you have an unsatisfying marriage because of your wife? Or do you have an unsatisfied wife because of the way you've approached your marriage?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Could 'both' be the correct answer? My main issue is that I'm married to someone that I'm scared of. I feel like I can't tell her the truth because of scared of how she will react... I feel like I constantly let her down or that I'm not good enough for her. Because of that fear, I lied. Not a great way to approach a relationship.

[shermanator]

Of course it wouldn't upset you; it would simply relieve you of your guilt. She would have lost the moral high ground. It's ridiculous to compare your hypothetical to being blindsided.

 

I think I know where you're coming from, but I don't think my feelings are that simple. According to another poster, I'm such a narcissist, I probably can't even feel guilt.

[Mr. Lucky]

Could 'both' be the correct answer? My main issue is that I'm married to someone that I'm scared of. I feel like I can't tell her the truth because of scared of how she will react... I feel like I constantly let her down or that I'm not good enough for her. Because of that fear, I lied. Not a great way to approach a relationship.

 

Hopefully you're understanding that you can only own your action, not her reaction to it.

 

You seem to think MC will somehow render an unpalatable situation bearable, perhaps even satisfying. Don't think it works that way. What it will help you define is the price staying in the relationship will extract. You can then decide what you're willing to pay.

 

MC doesn't fix, it clarifies. You still have to do the work...

 

Mr. Lucky

[minimariah]

In my IC, I've been called things but NPD hasn't been one of them.

 

meh, you most definitely do show SOME signs of NPD.

 

Could 'both' be the correct answer? My main issue is that I'm married to someone that I'm scared of. I feel like I can't tell her the truth because of scared of how she will react... I feel like I constantly let her down or that I'm not good enough for her. Because of that fear, I lied. Not a great way to approach a relationship.

 

the problem is, i think - you don't even know WHAT to be honest about. your W doesn't want to hear about your A but you want to talk about it and be "honest" about it. in reality, you don't need to be honest about your A, you need to be honest about what got you to that point that you decided to have an A.

 

if you knew what to fix and how, if you knew how to communicate about your problems - your marriage might have a chance. i don't think you're looking for another W or another marriage, you're looking for another self.

 

your OW doesn't know you as a drunk/in all the dark ways your W does. you might've told her but she never saw it, for years and years. your W did so you're trying to fresh start with another woman because... well, your W already saw the worst parts of you and it's like you don't think you can move away from that.

 

tell me, is an open marriage something you and your W would consider?

[shermanator]

 

your OW doesn't know you as a drunk/in all the dark ways your W does. you might've told her but she never saw it, for years and years. your W did so you're trying to fresh start with another woman because... well, your W already saw the worst parts of you and it's like you don't think you can move away from that.

 

tell me, is an open marriage something you and your W would consider?

 

No, an open marriage isn't an option. My wife views success in life as having a family and maintaining what we have going. In her own words, if our marriage were to fall apart and if we divorced, she would view herself as a failure. Having a family and being a mom are the most important things to her.

[shermanator]

Hopefully you're understanding that you can only own your action, not her reaction to it.

 

You seem to think MC will somehow render an unpalatable situation bearable, perhaps even satisfying. Don't think it works that way. What it will help you define is the price staying in the relationship will extract. You can then decide what you're willing to pay.

 

MC doesn't fix, it clarifies. You still have to do the work...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Right... but what I'm struggling with is this: Am I questioning my marriage/vows bc of the affair or did our personality differences/lifestyle differences make me look for approval/companionship outside of the marriage?

 

I keep describing my wife as 'loyal, good mom' etc and that makes her crazy. After our last MC session, she said "you can get a Golden Retriever if that's what you're looking for."

 

I hate that I've done this and I don't know what to do. My wife is a good woman and we have a good life. But I am pining away for the OW and continue to think about a life with her.

[minimariah]

Right... but what I'm struggling with is this: Am I questioning my marriage/vows bc of the affair or did our personality differences/lifestyle differences make me look for approval/companionship outside of the marriage?

 

it's probably both, it's not mutually exclusive.

something was missing in your marriage & it made space for a 3rd person. it allowed you to develop feelings for someone else, it allowed you to connect with someone else. if your connection with your W was fantastic and satisfying, you would've never even considered the OW.

 

at the same time, this A probably made you question your happiness and life. it was probably your wake up call and it forced you to face your problems, things you aren't happy with.

 

you're probably heading for a separation/divorce, it's clear your heart just isn't in it. as much as you WISHED you wanted to reconcile... you really don't. your heart, mind... you're not fully in your marriage, you should be bending over backwards in order to save your marriage and i don't see you making any kind of real effort.

 

try to bring up separation/divorce to your counselor & W and see what happens.

[Mr. Lucky]

you're probably heading for a separation/divorce, it's clear your heart just isn't in it. as much as you WISHED you wanted to reconcile... you really don't. your heart, mind... you're not fully in your marriage, you should be bending over backwards in order to save your marriage and i don't see you making any kind of real effort.

 

try to bring up separation/divorce to your counselor & W and see what happens.

 

Have to agree with this, your still many steps removed from working on your marriage.

 

I've spent some time in China over the last couple of years where there is a cultural reluctance to say "no". So you might invite someone to go to dinner tomorrow and they'll respond "maybe I will go", knowing full well they won't.

 

Sound familiar ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[BetrayedH]

Right... but what I'm struggling with is this: Am I questioning my marriage/vows bc of the affair or did our personality differences/lifestyle differences make me look for approval/companionship outside of the marriage?

 

I keep describing my wife as 'loyal, good mom' etc and that makes her crazy. After our last MC session, she said "you can get a Golden Retriever if that's what you're looking for."

 

I hate that I've done this and I don't know what to do. My wife is a good woman and we have a good life. But I am pining away for the OW and continue to think about a life with her.

 

What I think you need to accept is that your affair was not about either the OW or your wife. It was about something broken within YOU. A logical, ethical, healthy, and moral decision would have been to either fix your marriage or divorce. You chose neither of those. That has nothing to do with anyone other than you. Whether you've got an excessive need for external validation, are severely conflict-avoidant, or have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement, those issues are about something within you and probably were developed during childhood or as a result of your family of origin.

 

Your chicken and the egg analogy doesn't fit because it isn't about your wife or the OW at all. It's about you. Why did YOU make such an illogical, unethical, destructive, immoral decision - one that probably goes against your own standards?

[CarrieT]

Sherm, I honestly believe you have already emotionally checked out of the marriage and are just too chicken to tell your wife.

 

As you said, you are afraid of her - although if you imagine the absolute worst thing that could happen, isn't it something you could survive?

 

You keep stating that SHE would consider herself a failure if you ended the marriage. Well, that should not be your concern. Her feelings and how she deals with the ending of her marriage will be her problem. Yours will be figuring out what didn't work in your marriage and work towards repairing yourself to not make the mistake again.

[shermanator]

Sherm, I honestly believe you have already emotionally checked out of the marriage and are just too chicken to tell your wife.

 

As you said, you are afraid of her - although if you imagine the absolute worst thing that could happen, isn't it something you could survive?

 

You keep stating that SHE would consider herself a failure if you ended the marriage. Well, that should not be your concern. Her feelings and how she deals with the ending of her marriage will be her problem. Yours will be figuring out what didn't work in your marriage and work towards repairing yourself to not make the mistake again.

 

In MC today, she said that divorce would basically be the most horrific thing she could imagine. She said she never would have wanted kids, if she knew that we would get divorced... I said that sounded drastic to me and that the kids are a blessing, whatever happens with us.

 

In her words, tearing apart a family is the most selfish thing you can do... splitting up, regardless of the situation, isn't okay, according to her.

 

EDIT: on a side note, 4 weeks of NC today.