My (not unique) story...

[shermanator]

Don't know if immaturity is the right word but you've definitely painted her as having a stunted inability to confront anything emotionally difficult. I'd guess it's you that arranged MC, makes the appointments and insists on going. Most spouses would have kicked you to the curb over your drinking long ago, she seems more interested in marital style than substance.

 

I will say you've certainly presented her with a long list of challenging things to deal with. Maybe at this point, she's just numb...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Yes, you're right. I arranged MC and, during the blow up the other day, I insisted on going to see our MC when she was throwing me out of the house.

 

She has NO ability to handle things that push her emotionally... style over substance is probably a good way to put it.

[beach]

Yes, you're right. I arranged MC and, during the blow up the other day, I insisted on going to see our MC when she was throwing me out of the house.

 

She has NO ability to handle things that push her emotionally... style over substance is probably a good way to put it.

 

And how does this make you feel about your marriage?

[Brigit]

Yes, you're right. I arranged MC and, during the blow up the other day, I insisted on going to see our MC when she was throwing me out of the house.

 

She has NO ability to handle things that push her emotionally... style over substance is probably a good way to put it.

 

Do you want to stay married?

[Mr. Lucky]

She has NO ability to handle things that push her emotionally... style over substance is probably a good way to put it.

 

Then, setting your A aside, why would you want to be married to her for the rest of your life? With her mindset, seems you're only the next event - illness, finances, kids, etc - away from another crisis - or affair.

 

I don't get any sense from what you post that you love her - or her you. Waste of two lives...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Redheaded Mistress]

TBH, a lot of this looks really familiar to me with regards to how my husband's ex dealt with all of everything. She found out and they mutually agreed to seperate, but then when her religious family and his very religious family beat it into her that wasn't what she wanted, she did a total 180 and wanted to reconcile.

 

After that, it was his going back because he had to, his leaving because he wasn't invested in the marriage and was in love with me, going back because of guilt and fear of divorce, leaving because he couldn't stand her or their marriage and he resented being stuck with her... Blah blah blah.

 

My husband's ex was perfectly frank... She didn't care about the affair, she didn't want to hear about it (though that alternated with wanting to know maybe a bit too much about the affair... Like... To a creepy level), and she just wanted him to stay. She kept insisting he'd stop loving me and fall in love with her and when that didn't work, she didn't care that he didn't love her and only loved me, as long as he stayed. He could spend all day with me, as long as he went to bed with her and woke up with her, things were great. If he left, those were the treats about how she'd "make his life hell."

 

There were two things that really changed things:

 

1. The realization that his life was already hell so the threat of her making his life hell was fairly empty. He wanted life to be hell on his terms, living how he wanted to, not hell because he was living life on her terms.

 

2. Despite the fact that she knew about the affair, she hadn't yet had an actual D-day where she had to confront and deal with the affair and what it all meant. Because knowing about it and dealing with it are two totally different cats.

 

Once he realized he had nothing to lose, the threats meant nothing to him anymore, making his choice became a lot easier. And once she finally had a D-day, she started dealing with it all too.

 

I think both the above have yet to happen in your situation.

 

Oh, her anger is already coming out.

 

After I told her yesterday, one of the first things she said is "I'm going to make sure those kids know what kind of ********* you are and that they understand what you did to them and this family." There is NOTHING my wife could do (or anyone) that would make me think "Oh...I've got to tell the kids what a horrible person she is."

 

This is exactly what my husband's ex threatened. The thing is that you can't have a marriage this way. It sounds very much like the "stay because I want you" philosophy that made my husband so miserable. It's not even staying for the kids, is staying because of emotional blackmail. That's not good for either of you.

 

That's why this woman desperately needs a D-day so she can start piecing this together for herself.

 

Sorry dude, but it's time for you to start making some command decisions here. You can force the issue so that you both are now genuinely dealing with the affair and the fact that you love somebody else (or more importantly don't love her). I feel like you're waiting for some sort of lightning bolt that decides your future cleanly one way or the other without any real particular active choice on your part. FYI... That bolt isn't coming.

 

Yeah, divorce is scary as hell. Not going to lie about that. A contentious divorce is awful as hell. My husband was terrified of divorce and he got the "you're going to be broke paying child support and you'll get bored of OW" or "you won't have the comfy life you have now" etc etc. What they didn't realize was that once he figured out that divorce was going to suck but it was the road to finally being happy, he'd have gladly paid twice what he pays in child support to just get out. Ultimately, he pays more than he should in support and walked away from the divorce with none of their savings, none of the marital joint property, nothing but his personal stuff (and not even all of that... She kept really personal things like his yearbooks and journals), and he took on all the credit card debt (that she ran up) just so he could get out.

 

You just got to figure out... How much are you willing to put up with?

 

Oh, and PS, as long as your new wife (even if it's the OW) isn't a criminal, your wife can't forbid the kids from being around them. That was one his ex tried on me... Didn't work. Now several years down the road we have the kids more than she does and she gets ripped when we don't take them so she can go out and live her life.

[turnera]

Fair point and I totally understand what you're saying. I also know how I react to things and I know I wouldn't use the kids as pawns.

 

Who says she's using them as pawns?

 

Sounds to me like she might be saying she'd be trying to open their eyes so as to protect them from you. She certainly sees you as dangerous.

Edited June 14, 2015 by turnera

[Redheaded Mistress]

Who says she's using them as pawns?

 

Sounds to me like she might be saying she'd be trying to open their eyes so as to protect them from you. She certainly sees you as dangerous.

 

Threatening to tell the kids as punishment for towing the line is using the kids as pawns and as a means of emotional blackmail. The only point in telling the kids is to undermine their relationship with their father and get what she wants out of him. It's petty and selfish.

[turnera]

Maybe.

 

IF that's exactly how it went down. I've found over the years that posters tend to omit things that paint them negatively. Not saying he is, just saying it's safer all around to not assume without hearing both sides.

[shermanator]

Maybe.

 

IF that's exactly how it went down. I've found over the years that posters tend to omit things that paint them negatively. Not saying he is, just saying it's safer all around to not assume without hearing both sides.

 

That's how it went down. I've posted plenty of negative things about myself - I wouldn't start omitting now.

 

She apologized for doing it in MC and said that she was just upset... that those comments don't really show the content of her character.

[shermanator]

Do you want to stay married?

 

I think so. Honestly, we have a lot going for us... my wife is not a nasty, hurtful person (unless backed into a corner or fighting with me).

 

The affair fog coupled with the total adoration and laughter that I felt with the OW (two things that were missing for a LONG time in M) are making it hard to reconcile, though.

 

My W has a hard time enjoying the lightness of being, I think it's said... Laughing out loud... Not worrying about everyone else in the room and what they're thinking. And I have a hard time letting go of those things. I let her insecurities bother me and I take them personally.

 

I haven't seen the other woman for months and, apart from her email, haven't had any contact in months and I still think about her CONSTANTLY during the day. That's the hard part. Driving around, doing dishes, playing with the kids... she's still on my mind, in some part. Not necessarily pining away for her, but thinking about her.

Edited June 14, 2015 by shermanator

[Babs22]

I think so. Honestly, we have a lot going for us... my wife is not a nasty, hurtful person (unless backed into a corner or fighting with me).

 

The affair fog coupled with the total adoration and laughter that I felt with the OW (two things that were missing for a LONG time in M) are making it hard to reconcile, though.

 

My W has a hard time enjoying the lightness of being, I think it's said... Laughing out loud... Not worrying about everyone else in the room and what they're thinking. And I have a hard time letting go of those things. I let her insecurities bother me and I take them personally.

 

I haven't seen the other woman for months and, apart from her email, haven't had any contact in months and I still think about her CONSTANTLY during the day. That's the hard part. Driving around, doing dishes, playing with the kids... she's still on my mind, in some part. Not necessarily pining away for her, but thinking about her.

 

The affair fog coupled with the total adoration and laughter that I felt with the OW (two things that were missing for a LONG time in M) are making it hard to reconcile, though.

I totally get this. I am been in an A with a MM for the past 2.5 years. I am also married. Laughter was missing from my M as well. My H does not have much of a sense of humor and would also worry about what others were thinking. I have received many of a condescending look from him for my comments or jokes. I miss having someone who will joke around, be fun, laugh. I was big into laughing when I met H. Somehow over time, I lost even my own laughter. It was good to be reunited with it again.

 

Did you and your wife ever have that? I am not sure my H and I ever did.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Babs22
grammar

[shermanator]

I totally get this. I am been in an A with a MM for the past 2.5 years. I am also married. Laughter was missing from my M as well. My H does not have much of a sense of humor and would also worry about what others were thinking. I have received many of a condescending look from him for my comments or jokes. I miss having someone who will joke around, be fun, laugh. I was big into laughing when I met H. Somehow over time, I lost even my own laughter. It was good to be reunited with it again.

 

Did you and your wife ever have that? I am not sure my H and I ever did.

 

Sure... we've laughed and we still enjoy each other's company sometimes. The relationship isn't as toxic as many marriages, I'm sure.

 

Looking back, I proposed because I thought it was 'time.' There was almost like an obligation on my part, a sense of duty. It's hard to weed out fact from fiction during the early years of our relationship because I was drinking and not communicating with her. I don't remember feeling excited right before I asked her, though. I remember nerves, hoping that the engagement would get us back on track, etc.

 

I do love my wife. I want the best for her. What kills me is that I'm pretty sure I'm not the best for her, but I'm too big a coward to leave and she won't throw me out.

[Babs22]

Sure... we've laughed and we still enjoy each other's company sometimes. The relationship isn't as toxic as many marriages, I'm sure.

 

Looking back, I proposed because I thought it was 'time.' There was almost like an obligation on my part, a sense of duty. It's hard to weed out fact from fiction during the early years of our relationship because I was drinking and not communicating with her. I don't remember feeling excited right before I asked her, though. I remember nerves, hoping that the engagement would get us back on track, etc.

 

I do love my wife. I want the best for her. What kills me is that I'm pretty sure I'm not the best for her, but I'm too big a coward to leave and she won't throw me out.

 

Wow, your last statement there says a lot. She has stood by you through a lot of things. That says a lot too. She either really loves you are she is also afraid of being alone. You mentioned your drinking. Are you in recovery now? How long have you been sober? Sorry if you explained this and I missed it. If you really love her, and you want to save your marriage, you do need to let go of the thought of OW. Can you replace those thoughts of OW with thoughts of your wife? To me you were still thinking of OW because you are not certain that you want to stay with your wife. Or are you just waiting for your wife to throw you out?

 

I'm glad you are in MC trying to sort this all out. Are you in IC too? I think that would be important for you to try to figure out what it is you want. You may love your wife and want what is best for her, but maybe you don't love your wife the way a man should love his wife. What makes you think you are not the best for her? Is that why you are sabotaging your M? You cannot forgive yourself and so think she deserves better. If you really love your W and truly want to stay married to her (and not because of the kids or the financial hit you will take), then you need to stop thinking that you are not the best for her. Be the best for her if you she is the one you want.

[shermanator]

Wow, your last statement there says a lot. She has stood by you through a lot of things. That says a lot too. She either really loves you are she is also afraid of being alone. You mentioned your drinking. Are you in recovery now? How long have you been sober? Sorry if you explained this and I missed it. If you really love her, and you want to save your marriage, you do need to let go of the thought of OW. Can you replace those thoughts of OW with thoughts of your wife? To me you were still thinking of OW because you are not certain that you want to stay with your wife. Or are you just waiting for your wife to throw you out?

 

I'm glad you are in MC trying to sort this all out. Are you in IC too? I think that would be important for you to try to figure out what it is you want. You may love your wife and want what is best for her, but maybe you don't love your wife the way a man should love his wife. What makes you think you are not the best for her? Is that why you are sabotaging your M? You cannot forgive yourself and so think she deserves better. If you really love your W and truly want to stay married to her (and not because of the kids or the financial hit you will take), then you need to stop thinking that you are not the best for her. Be the best for her if you she is the one you want.

 

Yes, I'm in IC, too. That's been my help to stop drinking and get sober.

 

My wife has stood by me... Very true. She used my DUI and her staying with me as 'proof' of her love during MC.

 

I'm trying to replace OW thoughts with my W. The hardest thing, for me, has been that I never felt judged by the OW. She showed joy and laughter and a lightheartedness that I was instantly attracted to. Those qualities are very different than those of my wife.

 

The idea of another man sharing those moments with the OW (and making her laugh like I did) are really hard for me to take right now. I realize how messed up that is.

[minimariah]

I think so.

 

as long as you THINK SO instead of KNOWING SO - nothing will really change.

 

did you think about separating for a while...?

 

I do love my wife. I want the best for her. What kills me is that I'm pretty sure I'm not the best for her, but I'm too big a coward to leave and she won't throw me out.

 

you're aware of this problem -- do you actually DO anything to fix that problem? i think leaving NOW would be the best thing for you before everything escalates.

[minimariah]

I'm trying to replace OW thoughts with my W. The hardest thing, for me, has been that I never felt judged by the OW.

 

but you were also never opened and honest with your W as you were with the OW. you never felt judged by your OW because your approach to the OW was different than the approach you had to your W.

 

at the end of the day, you yourself decided what roles you'll take in which relationship. you decided NOT to be honest with your W and build a relationship based on your fear of her in comparison to the OW where you decided to be honest. so the relationship with the W was doomed from the start because you decided to "doom" it.

[turnera]

I never felt judged by the OW. She showed joy and laughter and a lightheartedness that I was instantly attracted to. Those qualities are very different than those of my wife.

That's because your OW didn't have to clean up vomit off the floor when your kids were sick. Your OW didn't have to fight over bills vs your new toy with you so she could make sure the kids got groceries. Your OW didn't have to stand by you when a family member died and give up her me time so you could be cared for. Your OW didn't have to spend countless nights wondering where you were or why you seemed to be lying or asking herself if she was too ugly to keep her man.

 

In other words, your OW got to live the fantasy life while your wife lived the REAL life. So of COURSE your OW never had to judge you for not pulling your weight - there WAS no weight in your fantasy life to pull; it was all unicorns and rainbows and love and sex. No bills, no sick kids, no job losses, no compromises to make over house/vacation/family.

 

What you SHOULD be trying to do is visualize how your wonderful OW would handle the same problems your wife has dealt with after years with you and you therefore taking her for granted like you did your wife (and she you). THAT OW would not be the same fantasy OW you spent time with.

[shermanator]

That's because your OW didn't have to clean up vomit off the floor when your kids were sick. Your OW didn't have to fight over bills vs your new toy with you so she could make sure the kids got groceries. Your OW didn't have to stand by you when a family member died and give up her me time so you could be cared for. Your OW didn't have to spend countless nights wondering where you were or why you seemed to be lying or asking herself if she was too ugly to keep her man.

 

In other words, your OW got to live the fantasy life while your wife lived the REAL life. So of COURSE your OW never had to judge you for not pulling your weight - there WAS no weight in your fantasy life to pull; it was all unicorns and rainbows and love and sex. No bills, no sick kids, no job losses, no compromises to make over house/vacation/family.

 

What you SHOULD be trying to do is visualize how your wonderful OW would handle the same problems your wife has dealt with after years with you and you therefore taking her for granted like you did your wife (and she you). THAT OW would not be the same fantasy OW you spent time with.

 

I've read comments like this throughout this experience and I guess I think, if cleaning puke or picking up underwear off the floor ruins your relationship, there were other, much larger issues at hand.

 

My OW and I had several ugly, back and forth confrontations and we always worked it out. It wasn't always sunshine and rainbows and sex. We actually fought during the A.

[turnera]

Of course you did. Just not real life.

 

You're not going to convince anyone here that your OW is some magical, wonderful creature.

 

She's a cheater. Just like you are.

 

That makes you and her one peg down from the people who choose better.

[Mr. Lucky]

My OW and I had several ugly, back and forth confrontations and we always worked it out. It wasn't always sunshine and rainbows and sex. We actually fought during the A.

 

Arguing with your AP is akin to fighting on vacation about where you're going to have dinner.

 

Very different than budgeting and shopping for groceries, planning and preparing a meal that makes everyone happy, getting them all gathered at the table and managing the kid's behavior while there and then cleaning two sinks full of pots, pans and dirty dishes.

 

Both technically involve dinner...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Popsicle]

You created this thread a year ago, and it seems like you're stuck, so you had better just get used to it.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Popsicle

[Noideanow]

Of course you did. Just not real life.

 

You're not going to convince anyone here that your OW is some magical, wonderful creature.

 

She's a cheater. Just like you are.

 

That makes you and her one peg down from the people who choose better.

 

 

Arguing with your AP is akin to fighting on vacation about where you're going to have dinner.

 

Very different than budgeting and shopping for groceries, planning and preparing a meal that makes everyone happy, getting them all gathered at the table and managing the kid's behavior while there and then cleaning two sinks full of pots, pans and dirty dishes.

 

Both technically involve dinner...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

 

 

Seems like some people here are a bit jealous of a man in love and close to getting a divorce, sounds like you could benefit from one or the other yourself?

Edited June 15, 2015 by Noideanow
two qoutes

[gettingstronger]

I have to agree that the dynamic in an affair and one in a marriage are so different and has everything to do with the life stresses married people face-

 

I remember saying to my husband-how could marriage ever measure up- I mean really- a relationship that has that secret dynamic, where you really are escaping the day to day-where when you meet up (for them) it was always away on business-hotels, expense accounts, rental cars- who doesn't love hotel sex, the freeing feeling of being away from your suburban life, being someone else for a while- I was not jealous of the person, I was jealous of the situation-

 

In therapy, we learned and he discovered-how to draw power and fulfillment from what once dragged him down- family life, doing chores, cooking and cleaning together-he no longer needed that escape-that ego boost- heck, I can hardly get him out of the house on the weekends now-so its not so much romancing your wife like you did your OW (you should do that too) but the sense of fulfillment of what makes a marriage and family-warts and all-

 

If you can not find that in yourself, if you continue to compare the two situations and not reframe what is important and fulfilling to you, then yes- as a poster said above, you will be stuck here another year- I believe in reconciliation but honestly at this point, it does not seem you have changed your mindset, on what gives you power and fulfillment-its not your wife, its you- if you can not do it-move on-its the kindest thing to do-

[shermanator]

Arguing with your AP is akin to fighting on vacation about where you're going to have dinner.

 

Very different than budgeting and shopping for groceries, planning and preparing a meal that makes everyone happy, getting them all gathered at the table and managing the kid's behavior while there and then cleaning two sinks full of pots, pans and dirty dishes.

 

Both technically involve dinner...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Understood. I'm also not naive enough to think 'real life' would carry out just as the A did. We have yet to wash each other's dirty laundry, deal with real stresses... I get it.

[shermanator]

I have to agree that the dynamic in an affair and one in a marriage are so different and has everything to do with the life stresses married people face-

 

I remember saying to my husband-how could marriage ever measure up- I mean really- a relationship that has that secret dynamic, where you really are escaping the day to day-where when you meet up (for them) it was always away on business-hotels, expense accounts, rental cars- who doesn't love hotel sex, the freeing feeling of being away from your suburban life, being someone else for a while- I was not jealous of the person, I was jealous of the situation-

 

In therapy, we learned and he discovered-how to draw power and fulfillment from what once dragged him down- family life, doing chores, cooking and cleaning together-he no longer needed that escape-that ego boost- heck, I can hardly get him out of the house on the weekends now-so its not so much romancing your wife like you did your OW (you should do that too) but the sense of fulfillment of what makes a marriage and family-warts and all-

 

If you can not find that in yourself, if you continue to compare the two situations and not reframe what is important and fulfilling to you, then yes- as a poster said above, you will be stuck here another year- I believe in reconciliation but honestly at this point, it does not seem you have changed your mindset, on what gives you power and fulfillment-its not your wife, its you- if you can not do it-move on-its the kindest thing to do-

 

For me, I stopped enjoying my wife's company after I sobered up. Her mindset and negative vibe bummed me out to the point that I didn't want to spend time with her.

 

I've never felt bogged down by dad/domestic responsibilities. Money isn't a huge stressor for us, I cook/clean/do homework with the kids, etc. I don't harbor resentment about any of those chores/life duties.

 

She resented a new hobby of mine, as well (the gym I joined), which added to my resentment. Probably why I started noticing someone, at the gym, who made me feel good about myself.