My (not unique) story...

[turnera]

For me, I stopped enjoying my wife's company after I sobered up.

Were you drinking when you met her? I mean, an active drinker, such that you chose someone who 'fit' that lifestyle?

[Popsicle]

I agree with gettingstronger that your only hope is to change your attitude about your wife, your marriage and your OW.

[violet1]

I have to agree that the dynamic in an affair and one in a marriage are so different and has everything to do with the life stresses married people face-

 

I remember saying to my husband-how could marriage ever measure up- I mean really- a relationship that has that secret dynamic, where you really are escaping the day to day-where when you meet up (for them) it was always away on business-hotels, expense accounts, rental cars- who doesn't love hotel sex, the freeing feeling of being away from your suburban life, being someone else for a while- I was not jealous of the person, I was jealous of the situation-

 

In therapy, we learned and he discovered-how to draw power and fulfillment from what once dragged him down- family life, doing chores, cooking and cleaning together-he no longer needed that escape-that ego boost- heck, I can hardly get him out of the house on the weekends now-so its not so much romancing your wife like you did your OW (you should do that too) but the sense of fulfillment of what makes a marriage and family-warts and all-

 

If you can not find that in yourself, if you continue to compare the two situations and not reframe what is important and fulfilling to you, then yes- as a poster said above, you will be stuck here another year- I believe in reconciliation but honestly at this point, it does not seem you have changed your mindset, on what gives you power and fulfillment-its not your wife, its you- if you can not do it-move on-its the kindest thing to do-

I completely agree! You need to stop comparing your wife to the OW. It's not fair to your W. How can she compete with that? My other question is if you want to stay married, why haven't you blocked the OW from contacting you? The whole fight with your W would have been avoiding if you had blocked the OW in the first place. That way you would have never received the email. Plus, you keep obsessing over the email because the OW kept the door open for you to contact her and resume the affair. You are making everything harder than it has to be. You made a choice to start a relationship with another woman while married. Now you need to completely end it by blocking the OW and cutting her completely out of your life so you can either fix your marriage or end it amicably. You don't want a dirty divorce. You have kids to think about.

[gettingstronger]

How long have you been sober and what steps did you take to either end or work on your marriage since sobering up-

 

You don't have to resent married life for it to cause stress for you- its not about stress anyway-its about where you draw your power- does your marriage and family life give you that kick you are looking for-if not, why-where do you draw your personal power and how does your marriage, or even marriage in general fit in to that-until you figure that out you are in a holding pattern-

 

I work out like a freak too- love it, gives me a great release-but at the end of the day, what draws me, what completes me is my marriage and my family- I do not need more than that to be fulfilled-the rest is just icing- you seem focused on the icing-how can your wife compete with that-

 

If you truly, honestly just don't like your wife- leave her-

[shermanator]

Were you drinking when you met her? I mean, an active drinker, such that you chose someone who 'fit' that lifestyle?

 

Yep. I would drink, lie/hide/alibi/go underground, we'd fight about it, I'd stop drinking for a bit (or come up with some 'system' - weekends only, just beer, etc), then the entire pattern would repeat.

 

I was a conflict avoidant drunk who was pursued by an attractive girl who was smitten by me. She provided some stability for my chaos.

 

Our MC has described all of this to us - me, the cowardly drinker. Her, the flaming enabler.

[shermanator]

I completely agree! You need to stop comparing your wife to the OW. It's not fair to your W. How can she compete with that? My other question is if you want to stay married, why haven't you blocked the OW from contacting you? The whole fight with your W would have been avoiding if you had blocked the OW in the first place. That way you would have never received the email. Plus, you keep obsessing over the email because the OW kept the door open for you to contact her and resume the affair. You are making everything harder than it has to be. You made a choice to start a relationship with another woman while married. Now you need to completely end it by blocking the OW and cutting her completely out of your life so you can either fix your marriage or end it amicably. You don't want a dirty divorce. You have kids to think about.

 

My IC has been all over me about this, too. She keeps asking me to think about why I like torturing myself. She's told me to block the OW, work on things at home. I didn't block her because I really thought she wasn't going to contact me again.

[turnera]

Well, then, maybe you shouldn't be married; maybe you two aren't really compatible, at least not when you're trying to be healthy.

[violet1]

My IC has been all over me about this, too. She keeps asking me to think about why I like torturing myself. She's told me to block the OW, work on things at home. I didn't block her because I really thought she wasn't going to contact me again.

 

 

You can start today by blocking her. Tell your wife about it. I can understand why your W is upset. You turned her into plan B. She's no longer the #1 woman in your life. Actually, I'm not sure that your W was ever #1 in your eyes. You used alcohol before the A and replaced the alcohol with your OW. It seems like you have a habit of escaping your problems. Did you have a rough childhood?

 

 

Even if you haven't seen or initiated contact with the OW, your thoughts are still consumed by her. I think you should truly try making your wife #1. Do nice things for her. You can leave her sweet little notes, maybe surprise her with flowers. Do this for a month and see if her behavior starts to change. You state that she's very serious. Your actions could be a symptom of that. Isn't it possible that she feels like she can't count on you? Prove to her that she can. You can start by blocking the OW.

[gettingstronger]

ICK- you have been dishonest with your wife in one form or another from the start-

 

Either change or leave- its pretty simple at this point- you are being cruel to her in the worst way possible- she is a person, not your crutch, not your excuse on why you are not the man you should be-

 

Come on now- be human- admit to yourself you are no good to this woman or change- just stop being so pathetic-

[violet1]

ICK- you have been dishonest with your wife in one form or another from the start-

 

Either change or leave- its pretty simple at this point- you are being cruel to her in the worst way possible- she is a person, not your crutch, not your excuse on why you are not the man you should be-

 

Come on now- be human- admit to yourself you are no good to this woman or change- just stop being so pathetic-

As harsh as it sounds, this is right on the money. GS, you are on a roll! ?

 

 

Sherm, this sh#t has been going on way too long. It's time for you to man up! You are playing with people's lives here. If you want to divorce then do it. Your W deserves the chance to have a committed partner. Either be that person or let her go so she can find someone else. Does the thought of your W being with another man bother you like it does with the OW? Does the thought of your children possibly having a stepfather bother you? Start thinking about your family and the how the choices you're making will change their future. Your OW being with another man should be the last of your worries. You need to make a decision now while it's still in your hands. One day your W might wake up and say to herself, 'I have had enough, I'm done!' Like my grandfather used to say, "sh#t or get off the pot!"

[Mr. Lucky]

Arguing with your AP is akin to fighting on vacation about where you're going to have dinner.

 

Very different than budgeting and shopping for groceries, planning and preparing a meal that makes everyone happy, getting them all gathered at the table and managing the kid's behavior while there and then cleaning two sinks full of pots, pans and dirty dishes.

 

Both technically involve dinner...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

 

 

Seems like some people here are a bit jealous of a man in love and close to getting a divorce, sounds like you could benefit from one or the other yourself?

 

While I'm empathetic to the OP's current situation and his well-documented struggles, I'm certainly not jealous. His is the last position I'd want to be in...

 

Mr. Lucky

[cocorico]

For me, I stopped enjoying my wife's company after I sobered up. Her mindset and negative vibe bummed me out to the point that I didn't want to spend time with her.

 

This suggests that you need to be drinking in order to enjoy your wife's company, but this:

 

Yep. I would drink, lie/hide/alibi/go underground, we'd fight about it, I'd stop drinking for a bit (or come up with some 'system' - weekends only, just beer, etc), then the entire pattern would repeat.

 

...suggests that even when you were drinking, it wasn't much fun, either. From what you're posting, this:

 

Well, then, maybe you shouldn't be married; maybe you two aren't really compatible, at least not when you're trying to be healthy.

 

...seems to be the logical conclusion.

 

In order to be able to stomach being with your wife, you need to drink. She doesn't enjoy your drinking (evidenced by the "fights" you describe), so the two of you are stuck in a toxic dynamic, which you attempted to escape by bringing in others (MC, IC, OW) - all resisted by your wife, who would be happiest just by burying her head in the sand.

 

Is that an accurate summation of the picture you've presented? Is that really how you see things? Because, if so, you really ought to exit the marriage immediately. If it really is as toxic (and not just inauthentic) as you describe, it will kill you. The drinking, the lying, the hiding, the duplicity, the stress - none of that is sustainable. If you cannot tolerate your wife while you are sober, than staying with her will undermine either your sobriety or your marriage. If you meant what you wrote, get out now.

[66Charger]

I really dont understand the missing logic in cheaterthink.

 

Your wife is not the loving affectionate desirable person, because of things YOU did.

Maybe she is tired of smelling the OW on you.

Maybe she is tired of YOUR many unexplained abscences.

Maybe she is tired of being told she has to figure out what SHE did wrong.

Maybe she understands there is no point in MC if YOU are still involved with the OW.

Maybe she is tired of seeing you STILL pining after the OM.

 

Maybe you should start really looking in the mirror and see that it is YOU that is unattractive.

[shermanator]

This suggests that you need to be drinking in order to enjoy your wife's company, but this:

 

 

 

...suggests that even when you were drinking, it wasn't much fun, either. From what you're posting, this:

 

 

 

...seems to be the logical conclusion.

 

In order to be able to stomach being with your wife, you need to drink. She doesn't enjoy your drinking (evidenced by the "fights" you describe), so the two of you are stuck in a toxic dynamic, which you attempted to escape by bringing in others (MC, IC, OW) - all resisted by your wife, who would be happiest just by burying her head in the sand.

 

Is that an accurate summation of the picture you've presented? Is that really how you see things? Because, if so, you really ought to exit the marriage immediately. If it really is as toxic (and not just inauthentic) as you describe, it will kill you. The drinking, the lying, the hiding, the duplicity, the stress - none of that is sustainable. If you cannot tolerate your wife while you are sober, than staying with her will undermine either your sobriety or your marriage. If you meant what you wrote, get out now.

 

The hiding, the stress and the duplicity (especially now that I don't have the outlet of escaping to the OW) are taking a toll, no question. I'm not sleeping well and I'm rarely at peace. It's been that way for months. Probably over a year, really.

 

About the drinking, it is my issue. I don't want to blame my wife for those problems. That's how I chose to handle my insecurities and conflict avoidance. It also helped me numb the indifference I felt toward my wife. At some point along the way, the indifference turned to resentment and we are (or I am) trying to make it back from there.

 

I really am trying to make it work. Yes, I still THINK about the OW. But I've maintained no contact... I wish I hadn't read the email (she mentioned her new love interest... said he's a great guy, but it's nothing compared to what we had. He says he loves her and she can't respond in the same way, etc).

 

Part of me even feels bad for the OW's new guy - I wonder how he would feel if he knew his new GF was emailing her former AP, telling me how much she still loves me and how the new guy doesn't measure up.

 

Even knowing all of that, I'm struggling.

[shermanator]

I really dont understand the missing logic in cheaterthink.

 

Your wife is not the loving affectionate desirable person, because of things YOU did.

Maybe she is tired of smelling the OW on you.

Maybe she is tired of YOUR many unexplained abscences.

Maybe she is tired of being told she has to figure out what SHE did wrong.

Maybe she understands there is no point in MC if YOU are still involved with the OW.

Maybe she is tired of seeing you STILL pining after the OM.

 

Maybe you should start really looking in the mirror and see that it is YOU that is unattractive.

 

1. It's possible she's never been all that loving. What I did hasn't helped.

2. She never 'smelled' the OW on me.

3. I never went missing. No made up weekends or fishy appointments.

4. True. She's tired of that. She's pretty sure she's been perfect.

5. True. But I'm not really 'involved' with the OW. NC on my part for months.

6. Maybe... she has so much denial, though, I don't think she'd acknowledge my pining or thinking about the other woman.

 

I'm aware I'm not super desirable. I've made mistakes.

[66Charger]

1. It's possible she's never been all that loving. What I did hasn't helped.

2. She never 'smelled' the OW on me.

3. I never went missing. No made up weekends or fishy appointments.

4. True. She's tired of that. She's pretty sure she's been perfect.

5. True. But I'm not really 'involved' with the OW. NC on my part for months.

6. Maybe... she has so much denial, though, I don't think she'd acknowledge my pining or thinking about the other woman.

 

I'm aware I'm not super desirable. I've made mistakes.

 

1. Then you should have never married her. Now your complaining?

2. Really? Taking a shower before coming home is "smelling the OW on you"

3. If you spent time with the OW and not with your wife, you went missing

4. Was that sarcasm?

5. Was that denial? Read your own last post. Almost all of it about the OW and her bf

6. You cant read her mind, and it is amazing that you still have a wife.

 

I dont mean to hammer on you, bro, but you talk badly about your wife when it is you who lit the bomb.

 

I will take my leave and wish you well.

Edited June 16, 2015 by 66Charger

[MuddyFootprints]

At this point, I don't think you are capable of committing to your wife, your marriage, this other person, or yourself.

 

Sometimes a crash course in reality is helpful.

 

Consult a lawyer.

 

It's beyond time to get out of your own head.

[shermanator]

At this point, I don't think you are capable of committing to your wife, your marriage, this other person, or yourself.

 

Sometimes a crash course in reality is helpful.

 

Consult a lawyer.

 

It's beyond time to get out of your own head.

 

A lawyer isn't going to help... I just need to continue to go NC and keep going to MC. I think.

[Mr. Lucky]

I just need to continue to go NC and keep going to MC. I think.

 

Since the normal goal of MC is the repair of the relationship, I don't get it. You don't seem to "love" your wife or be "in love" with her.

 

Are you going to spend the rest of your life in this dance of denial and detachment? Sounds awful...

 

Mr. Lucky

[cocorico]

Since the normal goal of MC is the repair of the relationship, I don't get it. You don't seem to "love" your wife or be "in love" with her.

 

Are you going to spend the rest of your life in this dance of denial and detachment? Sounds awful...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Yep.

 

Especially as the "ideal M" his BW wants (head in the sand, no authenticity, no real connection) is not the "ideal M" Sherm seems to want, and vice versa. If two people want such very different things, at least one of them is going to be left unhappy - and, given the history here, I'm guessing it will be both of them.

 

Meantime, the poor kids will have to grow up in that household, doomed to miserable relationships themselves, since that will be what they learned from their parents.

 

I don't see this ending well, since neither the OP nor the BW seem prepared to do what it takes to fix the M, nor to leave it. In ten years time, this thread will still be running, with Sherm wondering why it's not gotten any better.

[Brigit]

A lawyer isn't going to help... I just need to continue to go NC and keep going to MC. I think.

 

You don't even seem to like a wife you're supposed to love. Perhaps the only reason why you stay is due to fear of the unknown.

[violet1]

Sherm, have you blocked the OW yet? MC isn't used to just save marriages. You can also use MC to help you split amicably. This is something our MC told us when we started. As long as you still think fondly of the OW, your M doesn't have a shot. You should be looking at your relationship with the OW as toxic. You've had plenty of time for the "affair fog" lift. I think in your case, there's been too much damage done to your M. You can't revive something that's dead. I strongly agree that fear is what is stopping you from making a move. We talk a lot about fear in MC. Fear is what paralyzes us and prevents us from making healthy choices.

[violet1]

IMO, everything is backwards in the OP's case. He treats the OW like an ex GF, not an Ex AP. The Ex AP should be looked at as a enemy of the marriage for reconciliation to work, not as the one who got away. He treats his wife like a rebound relationship. The poor wife doesn't have a chance. The kids will grow up thinking their parent's dynamic is normal and will likely follow in the same foot steps. Is this what you want Sherm?

[shermanator]

IMO, everything is backwards in the OP's case. He treats the OW like an ex GF, not an Ex AP. The Ex AP should be looked at as a enemy of the marriage for reconciliation to work, not as the one who got away. He treats his wife like a rebound relationship. The poor wife doesn't have a chance. The kids will grow up thinking their parent's dynamic is normal and will likely follow in the same foot steps. Is this what you want Sherm?

 

No, that's not what I want and reading your post struck a chord with me. You're 100% right. I HAVE to change my mindset regarding the xAP. I've been thinking about her like an exGF, like you said... with nostalgia in the mix, I'm not going to make any progress. During the A, I did care deeply (affair fog/whatever) for the OW, so it's hard to adjust the mindset, but you are right... She wanted to wreck my marriage and step in as a mom to my kids.

[shermanator]

Sherm, have you blocked the OW yet? MC isn't used to just save marriages. You can also use MC to help you split amicably. This is something our MC told us when we started. As long as you still think fondly of the OW, your M doesn't have a shot. You should be looking at your relationship with the OW as toxic. You've had plenty of time for the "affair fog" lift. I think in your case, there's been too much damage done to your M. You can't revive something that's dead. I strongly agree that fear is what is stopping you from making a move. We talk a lot about fear in MC. Fear is what paralyzes us and prevents us from making healthy choices.

 

Yes, she's blocked. Our MC has said as much, too, as far as using MC to co-parent and split amicably. My W cannot even entertain the idea of co-parenting without going crazy, though. I don't know that we are in a 'dead' zone yet... our MC has seen our interactions and, in his words, thinks we still have a spark or connection that is worth saving.