My (not unique) story...

[shermanator]

A lot of people are going to tell you to work on your marriage, "do the right thing", stay even if you're not happy, but you have to do what's best for you. Anyone can give advice but they don't get to live your day to day life after they tell you what to do.

 

I think everyone should be so lucky to find someone they can openly communicate with and not lie to them. You found it with your OW and not your W, so I say that's a plus towards your OW. Evaluate what other pluses and minuses each one has and you're decision might be easier to figure out.

 

I also think the NC with the OW will make you miss her even more because of the whole absence makes the heart fonder but on the other hand, like Charlie said, if your OW likes you as much as you think she does, she WILL wait for you to come back, but not forever obviously...

 

If you don't want to be with your W, let her go so that she may find someone more compatible. Do not stay for the kids sake. It doesn't do them any good to see an unhappy marriage and after the youngest leaves to become an adult, you've got empty nest and still have an unhappy marriage.

 

Live your life the way you want to live it. If it doesn't work out with the OW, at least you tried and you might be able to reunite with your W again. Elizabeth Taylor married Richard Burton twice, so just sayin...

 

Doing whatever I want and living how I want just feels so selfish. We'll see how the NC works out. Still worry about the OW finding someone new and forgetting about me and my drama, but I understand we can't continue to see each other. It's not fair to anyone.

[2sunny]

What have you actively done to participate in staying sober? Step work? Meetings? Sponsoring others?

 

The step work is designed to eliminate selfishness, ya know? You're supposed to be helpful to others (this includes your wife) amends to her too - not setting it right if you've cheated on her since you got sober. You can still set that right, though.

 

The step work is designed to get rid of fears - have you done the work in any program?

 

Do you understand any part of why you drank? What pain you needed to cover up enough to get numb?

 

What do you do each day to insure you stay sober?

 

How can you improve yourself each day and how can you share your improved self with your wife?

Edited June 19, 2014 by 2sunny

[shermanator]

What have you actively done to participate in staying sober? Step work? Meetings? Sponsoring others?

 

The step work is designed to get rid of fears - have you done the work in any program?

 

Do you understand any part of why you drank? What pain you needed to cover up enough to get numb?

 

What do you do each day to insure you stay sober?

 

How can you improve yourself each day and how can you share your improved self with your wife?

 

I've gone to meetings, but I haven't worked the steps. I've been sober almost 3 years... going to therapy helps.

 

My parents were alcoholics and I drank instead of communicating. In order to avoid conflict, I would numb myself.

 

In the last 3 years, it's been pretty easy to stay sober. There's no 'one thing' I do everyday... for me, honesty is a huge part of sobriety, so I realize the A could lead to a relapse or cause added pressure to start drinking again.

 

My IC has suggested that regular meetings or SMART recovery (I think that's what it's called) might be a good idea if I'm feeling like I need help.

[Mr. Lucky]

I agree with the counselors that you should never tell the BS about the A. It definitely causes more pain than if you were to just leave without an OW. Both will cause hurt but one is less severe. Plus you've already been lying so there is no point in being completely honest now, there's no redemption in it. It just causes more doubt and pain and there will always be a cloud hovering in your M that she may never be able to recover from if you tell her.

shermanator, I'll ask you a simple question:

 

Were the roles reversed and your wife, bored and unsatisfied with your marriage but afraid of losing her "life" had started a physical affair with someone else and was thinking about leaving, how would you want to be treated ?

 

Mr. Lucky

[shermanator]

shermanator, I'll ask you a simple question:

 

Were the roles reversed and your wife, bored and unsatisfied with your marriage but afraid of losing her "life" had started a physical affair with someone else and was thinking about leaving, how would you want to be treated ?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

It's not that easy... because of how I'm feeling right now, I'd want to know, so I could leave. If I was happy in the marriage and madly in love with my wife, maybe I wouldn't want to know because it would hurt so much.

[2sunny]

I've gone to meetings, but I haven't worked the steps. I've been sober almost 3 years... going to therapy helps.

 

My parents were alcoholics and I drank instead of communicating. In order to avoid conflict, I would numb myself.

 

In the last 3 years, it's been pretty easy to stay sober. There's no 'one thing' I do everyday... for me, honesty is a huge part of sobriety, so I realize the A could lead to a relapse or cause added pressure to start drinking again.

 

My IC has suggested that regular meetings or SMART recovery (I think that's what it's called) might be a good idea if I'm feeling like I need help.

 

Are you willing to ask a sponsor to help you do the 12 steps?

 

It helped me with my honesty, fears and being happy to be sober and to be my best.

[PachucaSunrise]

Really, I think the OW is the only person I've ever been 100% honest with in my entire life. I was a drunk and lied to my wife about my drinking (and other things) for the first 9 years of our marriage. I've been honest with the OW about everything...

 

The idea of coming clean with my W makes me sick... but the idea of the OW finding another man makes me feel even worse.

 

This statement sounds so much like my XMM, it's ridiculous. You're right - your story isn't all that unique, and the similarities between our stories (yours and mine) only prove that even further.

 

However, there are a few positives you can take from this - one, you are aware of how typical your story actually is. I never realized that until after all the dust had settled. Up until 'reality' hit, I was living in la-la land. I believe you're in somewhat of a la-la land right now, but not nearly to the extent I was. two, you're already in therapy - that's excellent. Three, even though the damage (so to speak: the cheating) has already happened, you still have the chance to come clean with your W before you have a D-day. This isn't a 'Get out of Jail Free' card by any means, and the cheating can't be erased, BUT... You still have the opportunity to at least be honest and up front with your W - to man up and stop avoiding conflict. Whether or not you decide to tell her about the A is still unknown, but she deserves to know the obvious - that you're simply going through the motions at this point. I'm sure she's not completely in the dark regarding this, but if you don't communicate your complacency regarding your M as a whole, this situation is NOT going to get any better. The last positive you can take from this (at this moment) is that you've gone NC with your OW. She simply cannot be in the picture while you decide if you want to work on your marriage or not, and she cannot be the deciding factor. The decisions you make with your W need to be based on your expectations for your M in the long run, not the here and now. Having the OW in the picture is only going to cloud your judgment. Trust me, I know. I was THAT girl.

 

I really feel for you, OP. You're in quite the predicament. As other posters have already mentioned, someone is gonna end up very hurt over this - there's no denying that. It sucks, but that's just the reality of the situation. You do have options, none of which are easy, but still, they're options. The question is... How will you go about deciding what to do? Will you keep everything in the closet, or will you come clean? That's all up to you.

 

I will say this, though - my XMM never decided to tell his W the truth - he was CAUGHT. Yes, there was a D-Day, and it was AWFUL. Even when he had the chance to fully come clean, he didn't take it - he continued to lie, and that only dug himself an even deeper hole. Things got so messy that his W eventually ended up contacting me. I wanted to stay out of it, but she WANTED the truth, and so I told her. If the situation were reversed, I know I'd want the same thing. She was very thankful that she was able to get to the bottom of things. I mean, I can't even imagine what that must have been like for her... She described it to me as pure craziness - trying to sort out all the truths from the lies... And to know that I was partly to blame for that kind of agony was (and still is) brutal to live with - giving her the complete truth was the least I could do for her.

 

But again, not every BS wants to know EVERYTHING; in my case, she did. In the end, knowing the absolute truth gave her the opportunity to decide if she wanted to try to work things out with her WH or not... And in the end, it was all too much and so she decided to file for D. In my case, if she didn't know the truth, she may still be living a lie - a complete sham of a M - and how awful that would have been! I didn't get any satisfaction out of knowing they decided to D. I honestly wish they could have worked on things (but that's part of my selfishness). However, now she finally has the chance to be happy once again. She will find someone who is deserving of all she has to offer - someone who will remain truthful and communicate with her in an open and honest manner. That's something she did not get from her WH for quite some time - totally unfair to her - but at least now she is free to find the happiness she so deserves.

 

I didn't know this then, but I've come to the painful realization now that I was an escape route for my XMM. I do believe he loved his W, but their M had become stale, and they grew very far apart the last few years. There were issues, of course, but they could have been resolved without throwing me into the mix. Not saying I was an innocent party; I take full responsibility for the role I played. What I'm saying is this - instead of running from his issues and AVOIDING CONFLICT, my XMM should have openly communicated his frustrations with his W. That way, even though there still would have been some tears, he would have at least saved all three of us some MAJOR heartbreak. In your situation, you still have the opportunity to avoid this. Any route you take is certainly going to be tough, but if you take the high road, you'll be able to start making amends instead of complicating the situation any further.

 

OP, I can't even count the times XMM told me I was his best friend, the person who knew all his demons, the person he told EVERYTHING to, the person who knew all the bad stuff and yet still loved him, how he would have never been so conflicted had he never met me, how it would ruin him if I met someone else while he was trying to figure everything out, how afraid he was that I would forget him, that I couldn't handle all his drama. I don't exactly doubt the sincerity he felt AT THE TIME, but you mentioned several of these things as well. See the similarities? See what I'm saying?

 

He wasn't happy in his M, but he was COMFORTABLE. I NEVER talked about or persuaded him to leave his W at any time. If he ended up doing that, I wanted him to do it because his M wasn't working out, not because of me (some rather faulty thinking when I think back on it now). His biggest fear was leaving everything he knew and worked for to be faced with the unknown. I totally get that - can't imagine how scary that would feel. And because of his fear of being alone, he wanted to be 100% certain that I would be waiting there for him on the other side of everything. That wasn't fair to his W, and that wasn't fair to me. So, if anything, it's a good sign that your OW is out of the picture, at least for now. I'm not discounting your feelings towards her, but taking her out of the picture for a bit while you focus on your family may actually enlighten you. You may begin to realize that she's been an escape for you just as I was for my XMM. Who knows? Maybe you'll eventually have a long talk with your wife, work things out, and place OW in your past? On the other hand, maybe the time away from her will prove that you are truly in love with her? Time WILL tell. The bottom line is, a future with the OW will be doomed if you don't work through the problems in your M first. You simply cannot jump from one 'up in the air' situation to the next. That will not end on a happy note for anyone.

 

Another thing I'd like to note that's very important... Some questions to ask yourself - how do you think you would feel if the roles were reversed? Would you want honesty from your W, or would you want her to sugar-coat everything? Would you want to know about the A? Would you want to know her feelings regarding your M? If you knew that she had been physical with (or even emotionally attached to) another man, would you want to work things out? Just some food for thought...

 

No well-adjusted person wakes up one day and decides, "Hey, I think I'd like to start an A today!" So, just as I'm sure you would probably never expect to find yourself in such a situation, neither would I... But I was in one. And honestly, all of the ups and downs I experienced with my XMM's wishy-washy confused feelings took me on the most self-destructive ride of my entire life. Please, don't do this to someone else - to your wife or your OW. You need to get YOU right before you can fully offer yourself to someone else - that's crucial. So, DEFINITELY keep up with the therapy, and keep posting here. I've gotten a lot of priceless advice that I would have never gotten otherwise. I'm sure the same will be true for you.

 

One last thing - I know it may be difficult to think in this way, especially now, but... Don't let the fear of being alone override what you know in your heart is the right thing to do. I know that thought is scary, but what's even scarier is living with the guilt and sorrow from the (potential damage and hurt) you can bring to someone else's life. If you truly love someone, then love them... And if there's any doubt about that, the most loving thing you can do for them is let them go so they can find happiness on their own.

 

I wish you the best of luck. Do keep us posted!!

[fellini]

Well since you have demonstrated that you know, having repeated it enough times, that you are a conflict avoider, go with that.

 

Either you focus on your conflict avoidance issues or you do not.

 

If you do, you still have to deal with your marriage. You have to know if your marriage is BAD because you are (either/both) conflict avoiders (Emily Brown has a whole chapter in "Patterns of Infidelity and their treatment" to deal with this) or your marriage is BAD AND because of conflict avoidance you are still in there when you would rather be somewhere else.

 

You are torn, not because you cannot decide, (you seem already to know which one is the better choice) but because you WON'T make the DECISION because you are a conflict avoider. And making a life changing decision is not your style.

 

On decisions, I love Michelle Langley (who writes about women's infidelity but has some points that are equally valid for men) on decision making: ((Comments in parenthesis are mine)

 

So

you see, wo/men often say they’re confused and unable to make a decision about whether they should stay married or get divorced. This is because many women mistakenly believe that they have a single decision to make—whether to stay married or get divorced and they assume that they will make that decision in the future.

 

However, what you and many other wo/men don’t realize is, there isn’t any big future decision to make. You’ve already made decisions—you’ve been making decisions all along. And

so

far, all of those decisions are moving you away from a life with your husband/wife.

 

...

 

Wo

men have decided that their affair is too important to let go of, because it provides them with what they believe is missing in their marriage

. Additionally,

the high they experience helps ease the pain of their guilt

so

they try to figure out how to have both

. Many women in Limbo III

kid themselves into thinking that they’re trying to decide between their husbands and their lovers, but in truth they are trying to maintain the high while holding onto their marriages for as long as they can.

(This is very similar to what Emily Brown calls "Split self affairs")

 

What you need to know up front is this: you must be willing to face the fact that

what you really want might be different from what you think you should want

. (You are supposed to want your marriage, society deems that "mature" and an affair "childish", we are supposed to protect our children, do the right thing etc.) Determining your real desires isn’t difficult if you listen to what your body is telling you.

 

You are acting

while pretending you are waiting for an answer

. The truth is, you have received many answers along the way. Like many women,

you have chosen to ignore the answers

because

you didn’t like them

. (Or you are a conflict avoider and acting is not your strong point) For instance, when you initially started feeling attracted to your boyfriend I’

m

sure you received several signals indicating that you needed to stop what you were doing, but ignored them.

 

You didn’t wonder about what cheating would do to your relationship or what cheating means. You knew you had a decision to make and you made it. Your thoughts and behaviors have created very predictable results.

You’ve had numerous opportunities to turn this around, yet you haven’t taken any of them.

There have been many times along the way when you could have either ended your affair with your boyfriend or ended your marriage.

 

You know you don’t want to be with your husband anymore, but you feel guilty about it. The reason you feel

so

guilty is that you haven’t even given him a chance to make you happy. (Now this would be true if you were a conflict avoider and this inhibited your marraige, but

only you know if your wife is actually capable of making you happy

. I suppose at one time you thought

so

.)

 

You are experiencing all of this pain because deep down you already know what I’

m

telling you.

You haven’t been trying to figure out if you want to stay married. You’ve been trying to figure out how you are going to get out of being married.

 

However, the truth of the matter is,

you will never make a decision by conducting what amounts to nothing more than a taste-test

between two men. If you allow yourself an unlimited amount of time to choose, as well as an unlimited amount of tastes, you will cause yourself to become more, not less, confused. To be more specific,

the way you’ve been approaching this is actually making it impossible for you to decide

.

 

The relationships you currently have with your husband and boyfriend are largely artificial, because you’ve primarily been

relating to them in your head

. You probably spend more time imagining your life with these men than you actually spend with either of them. In other words, you’ve been spending the majority of your time engaging in what I call emotional masturbation.

 

So

again,

you are not in limbo because you are unsure

about whether you should stay married or get divorced. You are in limbo because you cheated on your husband and instead of taking responsibility for doing something that you believed to be wrong,

you chose to change your view about cheating

.

You now view cheating as an option

, at least

under certain circumstances

. In order to break out of limbo, you have to stop seeing cheating as an option under any circumstances.

 

 

You can read Langley on the stages of Limbo which pretty much describes your current position today. (womensinfidelity.com).

 

The thing is, in the end, you are going to have to make a decision, before the decision comes to you in the form of a new BF for the OW, or your wife finds a text message on your phone, or whatever. Just choose something that feels right for YOU (not for your kids, not because you will disappoint your parents, and not because you would be jealous if you AP moved on and started having sex. Make your decisions based on your future expectations for yourself.

 

Do not let your wife, your kids, or your AP define you. Define yourself, then you will know what it is you really want to do. Do it. Give it a go. If that means going to this new woman, then do it. You will be happy. No one can tell you if it has a future written in stone. That will be up to you.

 

Or end your A and try to build with your wife what you haven't built or allowed to be built in your past. But do it, and do it honestly.

 

EITHER CHOICE IS GOING TO MAKE YOU HAPPY IF YOU HAVE MADE THE CHOICE FOR YOURSELF, AND NOT BECAUSE YOU FEAR THE CONSEQUENCES OF MAKING THE OTHER CHOICE.

 

END THE STALEMATE.

END THE LIMBO.

Edited June 19, 2014 by fellini

[waterwoman]

Jeez! Your poor wife. Just put yourself in her shoes for moment. She put up with 8 years of secrecy and deceit with the drinking. You got through that and came out the other side. The followed a few years of normality when she probably started to relax, and then BAM! you start acting oddly, being distant, distracted and she has to worry all over again.

 

Stop thinking of yourself. Stop thinking about the OW. START thinking about what is best for your wife. She needs to know the facts because she is going to have to make some decisions. These decisions aren't ones she will want to make but that she has no choice thanks to you.

 

Tell her what has been going on. Let her make the decisions about your marriage since you are incapable of it. And it might well be that seeing her pain and distress might actually shake you out of your daze enough to step up and do the right thing.

 

You may find that the mysterious thing that was wrong with your marriage might well be you.

[jackslife]

Elizabeth Taylor married Richard Burton twice, so just sayin...

 

... and divorced twice if memory serves...

Edited June 21, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fixed quote

[CarrieT]

It's not that easy... because of how I'm feeling right now, I'd want to know, so I could leave. If I was happy in the marriage and madly in love with my wife, maybe I wouldn't want to know because it would hurt so much.

 

Then do unto others...

 

Give your wife the opportunity you would want for yourself.

[katielee]

Shermanator - one of the reasons I confessed (among other reasons) is that I am the mother of four children. Hubby and I have a family. we ARE family. He deserved to know that the mother of his children has a personal problem. A big one.... it affected a lot of things in our house (even though we only had one left at home). The mother of your children deserves to know you have a personal problem.

 

and regarding getting caught - it's virtually impossible to build trust if she would find out from someone else or catch you or find out in some way that is not from your mouth. You may not want to recover but if there is an inkling to stay with her, there is not much to build on if you don't confess.

 

I caught my husband. Twice, including a "live show." Has been nearly impossible to recover from it and I developed PTSD because I thought I was crazy and he was gaslighting me. Dont' do this to her.... again, she knows somethign is going on and keeping it from her is emotional abuse.

[Snowflower]

Shermanator, you are getting a lot of good advice on this thread. I'm sure you feel bombarded but I appreciate that you are trying to answer a lot of the questions.

 

I hope this is all giving you food for thought.

 

I know your counselor/s are telling you not to disclose the A to your wife because it will hurt her. Do what you feel is best for your situation. But can I say something from your wife's POV? Please?

 

If you decide to end your marriage without telling her the true reason, she may very likely twist herself into a pretzel trying to keep you/save her marriage. Even more so because you have fairly young children together. She will likely try and try in vain to please you, be a "better" spouse, work on the marriage very hard all to try to save it.

 

And if you leave her while she is trying to do this-without disclosing the truth-she will feel like she did something wrong and this would likely follow her for a long time-even into her future relationships. She will feel like she was lacking and that there was something wrong with her.

 

I've been in your wife's shoes.

 

Do you really want your wife to be agony and try so hard to save something that cannot be saved? Do you want her wondering for years what she did wrong?

[katielee]

One things I've experienced, read and learned about is that people who idolize their AP think other people can save them. Save them from feeling pain, much like your other addiction. It's a coping mechanism and not a good one.

 

What I've had to exerience as a former WW is that no one, thing, material good, addiction can save me from pain. It's only a distraction. And when you clear all that out what remains is yourself. And if you don't like yourself it's damn scary. It takes a while, especially if there are abandondment issues (Shermanator is this part of your past?) to realize that all you really have is yourself. And that is enough. Learning to love yourself is a big job for those who haven't done it their entire life. Believe me, I was there. It's hard to sit with pain and look deep into the reasons why you are unhappy. and you realize that those reasons have nothing to do with other people but they have everything to do with yourself. Not that you aren't a good person, but you see yourself as unworthy of love.

 

Get healthy for your own sake Shermanator. If you do, you will see your AP for who she truly is, and you will see your wife for what she is as well. You can't run away from yourself so you may as well start loving yourself the right way.

 

Good luck.

[jackslife]

There has been a lot of excellent advice on this thread. Any WH or WW would do well to read this. Obviously some conflicted advice, but it is interesting how much tally's up.

 

The other thing I find interesting is how for the person involved it is all so intense, personal and special (obviously), but how for people watching from the outside the same patterns repeat over and over again. Spouse has affair, gets emotionally attached, distances from husband/wife. Should they stay or should they leave... same stories over and over again. So very sad.

[Owl]

OP...you're still avoiding conflict, and still self-medicating.

 

There's NOTHING different today than there was 3 years ago when you were drinking.

 

The only exception is that today, it's being with OW, instead of being with the bottle.

 

Change the name of whatever your poison was back in the day to the name of your OW...and you're still in that same pattern.

 

You're "using" her, you're hiding it from your wife to avoid fighting over it.

 

This is the same thing you were doing before.

 

 

You KNOW what you should be doing. I don't need to tell you. You've already gone through the 'steps' of addiction recovery.

 

You have started down the right path...you've stopped drinking (contact with OW)...but you also know that there are many other things you need to be doing in order to recover here...and you've stalled out on that path, due to your own admitted conflict avoidance.

 

You KNOW that you need to tell your wife as part of the recovery process. You just don't want to. That's the conflict avoidance...the addict...still talking.

 

You don't want to tell her...not because you're worried about hurting her...but because you'll have to accept responsibility for your actions. You'll have to accept the work ahead of you to make amends for your actions, you'll have to admit to what you've done, and pledge to fix things that you broke as a result.

 

That's not selflessness...that's selfishness.

 

That's continuing with the addict's behavior...that's not working towards changing your life and ending the addiction.

 

Man up, buttercup.

 

It's time to start doing the right thing. You already know what the right thing is. It's just time to quit giving yourself permission to do the wrong thing.

[2sunny]

Has your counselor worked with you on conflict and your avoidance?

 

If you don't learn a new way of communicating effectively - you're just as likely to take your avoiding methods into any/every relationship. Your also role modeling a very unhealthy communication style to your kids, and they may do the same things in their future relationships.

 

 

 

Working my recovery taught me how I could/should do everything differently. It was VERY freeing.

 

I learned to be honest. I learned that what I do and don't do affects others.

 

I learned how to consider the consequences of my decisions and actions. I own what I do! I began to like myself.

 

I began to think and DO FOR OTHERS.

 

I began to be happy with myself and others!

 

My recovery was SO MUCH MORE than not drinking!

 

I hope you will find the strength and courage to find a man of honesty and integrity.

 

You MAY still love your wife - but not realize it because you are clouded by the feelings of the affair.

 

You need clarity to determine YOUR true/real feelings.

 

Maybe a few days away on a trip could help you gain clarity and what to do next?

[Mr. Lucky]

It's time to start doing the right thing. You already know what the right thing is. It's just time to quit giving yourself permission to do the wrong thing.

 

Twelve Steps:

 

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

 

Mr. Lucky

[2sunny]

OP...you're still avoiding conflict, and still self-medicating.

 

There's NOTHING different today than there was 3 years ago when you were drinking.

 

The only exception is that today, it's being with OW, instead of being with the bottle.

 

Change the name of whatever your poison was back in the day to the name of your OW...and you're still in that same pattern.

 

You're "using" her, you're hiding it from your wife to avoid fighting over it.

 

This is the same thing you were doing before.

 

 

You KNOW what you should be doing. I don't need to tell you. You've already gone through the 'steps' of addiction recovery.

 

You have started down the right path...you've stopped drinking (contact with OW)...but you also know that there are many other things you need to be doing in order to recover here...and you've stalled out on that path, due to your own admitted conflict avoidance.

 

You KNOW that you need to tell your wife as part of the recovery process. You just don't want to. That's the conflict avoidance...the addict...still talking.

 

You don't want to tell her...not because you're worried about hurting her...but because you'll have to accept responsibility for your actions. You'll have to accept the work ahead of you to make amends for your actions, you'll have to admit to what you've done, and pledge to fix things that you broke as a result.

 

That's not selflessness...that's selfishness.

 

That's continuing with the addict's behavior...that's not working towards changing your life and ending the addiction.

 

Man up, buttercup.

 

It's time to start doing the right thing. You already know what the right thing is. It's just time to quit giving yourself permission to do the wrong thing.

 

Owl - he hasn't done his steps... He's a dry drunk who hasn't done the work to become "recovered" - he may be sober - but he's not "recovered".

[2sunny]

Twelve Steps:

 

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Step one involves honesty

 

Then step 9 states willingness to actually make amends to those we have harmed - accepting that others may or may not forgive.

 

It's hopeful that CHANGED behavior (better behavior) has been happening by this point and others have an idea that the prior drinker is a changed person due to evidence of better behavior.

 

But in this case we don't have evidence of better behavior since sober, same behavior actually... Lies, sneaky and cheating his wife out of a real relationship with him.

 

Your wife can't possibly know who she's really married to because YOU have never presented to her your BEST SELF.

 

You've stolen years from your wife - and now given the chance to amend that (set things right) you've caused more harm.

 

The common denominator in all the harm is you - if YOU don't plan to change - then just divorce your wife.

 

She deserves to live life without MORE HARM being tossed her way.

 

You have had choices - those choices define who you are... And you still have a chance to chance it all - will you?

[Owl]

Owl - he hasn't done his steps... He's a dry drunk who hasn't done the work to become "recovered" - he may be sober - but he's not "recovered".

 

I think we're in agreement.

 

He went through the MOTIONS of the 12 steps, theoretically. But...he's resumed his addictive behavior, just with a different choice of addiction (OW, instead of alcohol).

 

He needs to go back and do it right. He needs to end his addictive behavior...not just stop drinking.

 

And part of what he needs to do in this process is to tell his wife, face the responsibility for what he's done, and make amends by reconciling his marriage (or ending it if his wife doesn't want to do so).

[2sunny]

I think we're in agreement.

 

He went through the MOTIONS of the 12 steps, theoretically. But...he's resumed his addictive behavior, just with a different choice of addiction (OW, instead of alcohol).

 

He needs to go back and do it right. He needs to end his addictive behavior...not just stop drinking.

 

And part of what he needs to do in this process is to tell his wife, face the responsibility for what he's done, and make amends by reconciling his marriage (or ending it if his wife doesn't want to do so).

 

I agree - except he said he hasn't done the steps at all yet. He's been to meetings but not done the step work...that is obvious by his posts...

 

OP - did you meet your OW at the meetings? Was she also a drinker?

[shermanator]

OP, I can't even count the times XMM told me I was his best friend, the person who knew all his demons, the person he told EVERYTHING to, the person who knew all the bad stuff and yet still loved him, how he would have never been so conflicted had he never met me, how it would ruin him if I met someone else while he was trying to figure everything out, how afraid he was that I would forget him, that I couldn't handle all his drama. I don't exactly doubt the sincerity he felt AT THE TIME, but you mentioned several of these things as well. See the similarities? See what I'm saying?

 

He wasn't happy in his M, but he was COMFORTABLE. I NEVER talked about or persuaded him to leave his W at any time. If he ended up doing that, I wanted him to do it because his M wasn't working out, not because of me (some rather faulty thinking when I think back on it now).

 

Thank you for sharing this... the OW has told me that I became her best friend. For a while, we were talking or texting ALL day, every day. I travel a lot for work and when I was out of town, I spent any spare time on the phone with her...

 

it was a total addiction. Just like my drinking or any other escape.

 

And she's been careful to never tell me that I should leave my M to be with her, just like I've never promised her that I'm leaving. She's said that, if I leave, it has to be because I want to, not because I need to be with her... and she's said that she's scared of dealing with the fallout - being the woman that people will say tore my family apart.

[Owl]

it was a total addiction. Just like my drinking or any other escape.

 

Then you've already received tons of advice on what to do from here.

 

Time to get busy. Just as with drinking...you don't start the change next week...you start it RIGHT NOW.

 

What's your plan?

[shermanator]

Shermanator, you are getting a lot of good advice on this thread. I'm sure you feel bombarded but I appreciate that you are trying to answer a lot of the questions.

 

I hope this is all giving you food for thought.

 

I know your counselor/s are telling you not to disclose the A to your wife because it will hurt her. Do what you feel is best for your situation. But can I say something from your wife's POV? Please?

 

If you decide to end your marriage without telling her the true reason, she may very likely twist herself into a pretzel trying to keep you/save her marriage. Even more so because you have fairly young children together. She will likely try and try in vain to please you, be a "better" spouse, work on the marriage very hard all to try to save it.

 

And if you leave her while she is trying to do this-without disclosing the truth-she will feel like she did something wrong and this would likely follow her for a long time-even into her future relationships. She will feel like she was lacking and that there was something wrong with her.

 

I've been in your wife's shoes.

 

Do you really want your wife to be agony and try so hard to save something that cannot be saved? Do you want her wondering for years what she did wrong?

 

No, I don't... She's not an idiot - she knows that something is off with me and maybe she's in denial. I know that, if I end the M, I will have to tell her what happened.