2sunny Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Where did you meet your OW? Link to post Share on other sites
Scarlet2 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Your W says she feels something is off with you lately but has she done anything to help with the M to get you back to where you were? Everyone is telling you to work on your M, but she has to as well otherwise it's all for naught, I would think. Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 How long has it been since you had sex with your wife? Link to post Share on other sites
spookysonata Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Your W says she feels something is off with you lately but has she done anything to help with the M to get you back to where you were? Everyone is telling you to work on your M, but she has to as well otherwise it's all for naught, I would think. What is she supposed to do? She's doesn't know about the affair, and that seems to be the major problem. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
tornapart2002 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Holy ****. Tell her everything and fire your counselors. A marriage built on lies is not a marriage. Telling my wife (and breaking her heart) is just a way for me to ask for forgiveness. Maybe I could tell her that I had a flirtation with someone else, or was tempted, but in talking with professionals, telling her everything would just be a way to eradicate some of the guilt I'm feeling. If I didn't care about my wife's feelings, I probably wouldn't feel any guilt, right? None of this is easy. Link to post Share on other sites
Author shermanator Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Where did you meet your OW? At the gym Link to post Share on other sites
Author shermanator Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Your W says she feels something is off with you lately but has she done anything to help with the M to get you back to where you were? Everyone is telling you to work on your M, but she has to as well otherwise it's all for naught, I would think. She just started some IC for her anxiety and constant worrying... That's been an issue throughout our M. She's working on relaxing... I used to plan all the date nights/babysitters/etc, but she would always worry about things the whole time we were out, so I stopped. Got the point where, if I stopped to get flowers on the way home, I'd get a text, asking what was taking me so long to get home... She's working on things like that... Link to post Share on other sites
Author shermanator Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 How long has it been since you had sex with your wife? 5 months or so... the last time we tried, I was unable to perform, which had never happened to me. I couldn't stop thinking about the OW and everything that goes along with that and just couldn't do it... Link to post Share on other sites
sweet_pea Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Wow. Yes, please divorce your wife. She deserves so much better than what you are giving her (or not giving her). She needs someone who loves her, will treat her right and not cheat on her! That way, you can go with the OW. Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 At the gym Do you still go to that gym - do you see her there? 5 months or so... the last time we tried, I was unable to perform, which had never happened to me. I couldn't stop thinking about the OW and everything that goes along with that and just couldn't do it... Did your wife ask you what was wrong when that happened? What was discussed? What was the outcome of the situation? Have you two talked about it since? And doesn't she wonder why you haven't had sex with her within that 5+ month period of time? She must be wondering what the heck is wrong! Link to post Share on other sites
April Moon Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 She just started some IC for her anxiety and constant worrying... That's been an issue throughout our M. She's working on relaxing... I used to plan all the date nights/babysitters/etc, but she would always worry about things the whole time we were out, so I stopped. Got the point where, if I stopped to get flowers on the way home, I'd get a text, asking what was taking me so long to get home... She's working on things like that... So you lying to her is probably not helping the situation... She is probably feeling guilty because she is questioning you and she is trying to seek help to trust you. Wow! And you couldn't perform because you were thinking of the OW? Charming... Tell your wife and get a divorce. Your worst enemy doesn't deserve the treatment you are inflicting on your wife. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author shermanator Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Do you still go to that gym - do you see her there? Did your wife ask you what was wrong when that happened? What was discussed? What was the outcome of the situation? Have you two talked about it since? And doesn't she wonder why you haven't had sex with her within that 5+ month period of time? She must be wondering what the heck is wrong! No, I left the gym... Yes, we talked about it at the time... didn't really get resolved. We haven't had a serious conversation about it since. Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 No, I left the gym... Yes, we talked about it at the time... didn't really get resolved. We haven't had a serious conversation about it since. Do you think it didn't get resolved because you weren't honest? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author shermanator Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Do you think it didn't get resolved because you weren't honest? Of course. We've had dry spells in the past (usually when she wasn't interested), so it's not totally unusual for us... this is a long time, though. I imagine it's going to lead to a conversation at some point. Link to post Share on other sites
Author shermanator Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 So you lying to her is probably not helping the situation... She is probably feeling guilty because she is questioning you and she is trying to seek help to trust you. Wow! And you couldn't perform because you were thinking of the OW? Charming... Tell your wife and get a divorce. Your worst enemy doesn't deserve the treatment you are inflicting on your wife. Of course my lying isn't helping and, yes, I couldn't be with my wife because of my feelings for the OW. Not trying to be charming... just where my head is at. Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Of course my lying isn't helping and, yes, I couldn't be with my wife because of my feelings for the OW. Not trying to be charming... just where my head is at. You're right, it's not charming, it's tragic. Link to post Share on other sites
Furious Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Gently.... You hid your drinking for 9 years out 12 years of your marriage. You and your wife are in marriage counselling and both your wife and marriage counsellor are unaware of the affair. Do you see a pattern here, a pattern of your ability to manipulate by omission and lying. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
fellini Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) You are not alone in the universe in your decision not to tell. It might seem that way here in LS. But there exists even in here, some who agree that in some cases it's better to do what you have to do to end the lying, and get back on track, whether that is leaving or staying and the decision to tell or not is a separate decision. Especially if you know the harm you are going to do is not going to help things. These are the thoughts of Kirshenbaum on this: TIME: Should you confess if you feel guilty about it? No. I've got to tell you that this is very, very important. I'm a person who is just an advocate of truth. I really will do anything to tell the truth, so it took me a long time to get to the point where I say, just don't tell. Because how does it make a person less guilty to inflict terrible pain on someone? Which is exactly what the confession does. It puts the other person in a permanent state of hurt and grief and loss of trust and an inability to feel safe, and it doesn't alleviate your guilt. Your relationship is dealt a potentially devastating blow. Honesty is great, but it's an abstract moral principle.... The higher moral principle, I believe, is not hurting people. And when you confess to having an affair, you are hurting someone more than you can ever imagine. So I tell people, if you care that much about honesty, figure out who you want to be with, commit to that relationship and devote the rest of your life to making it the most honest relationship you can. But confessing your affair is the kind of honesty that is unnecessarily destructive. There are two huge exceptions to not telling: if you're having an affair and you haven't practiced safe sex, even if it's only one time, you have to tell. Again, the moral principle is minimizing the hurt. But this time, the greatest risk of hurt comes from inflicting a sexually transmitted disease, and I've never seen a relationship recover from that. You also have to tell if discovery is imminent or likely. If you're going to be found out, then it's better for you to be the one to make the confession first. Of course this is not an excuse to continue the lies. What she is talking about is someone who has resolved the crises they have put themselves in, and are now asking, having made their decision, should I reveal? Now of course the community can come in here and dish Kirshenbaum, pretty much anyone who gets quoted on in here who has an alternative to the status quo gets lambasted - but the fact is, one size does not fit all, and in the area of infidelity, less so. There are typical patterns to infidelity, yours is pretty cliche. But one must not lose sight of the fact the generalisations END at some point and the particular strategy that anyone is going to take will be based on real experiences and personal decision. Just like the decision to enter into an affair, the decision to tell or not is a personal one and you have to own it. Anyone who tells you that there is ONLY ONE SOLUTION to your problem is delusional. There are dozens. Each with their own consequences. This is your life to decide how you are going to live it, to decide at what level you live 100% honestly and with the level of dignity that you want. Confession is for the church, and frankly, only one church that I know of. Your marriage is not a religion. Edited June 20, 2014 by fellini 3 Link to post Share on other sites
katielee Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 A week before I caught my husband in his 2nd affair I had a personal conversation with Myra Kirschenbaum. Yep, $250 worth. I was so frustrated with him and didn't know what to do. She said, "what are you going to do, you can't hire a PI to spy on him." which is exactly what I did 1 week later and caught him in the park on top of OW2. Her advice was crap. Most IC advice on confession is crap. There are multiple infidelity forums out there - people who have gone through this recently - and we all advocate the same thing: confession. Link to post Share on other sites
beatcuff Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 5 months or so... the last time we tried, I was unable to perform, which had never happened to me. I couldn't stop thinking about the OW and everything that goes along with that and just couldn't do it... not sure what i find more troubling: the comment (especially because we all at some point fantasize about another) or the lack of outrage from this community. usually persons with an AP are looking for 'some fun', have no interest in moving on (fine: cake eating). you are in love with another but in your quest to keep your family together are DESTROYING your W. i have no doubt the MC and IC she is in is useless because she has no idea of the cause: 'what am i doing wrong?'. you are wasting her time. hopefully once you disclose she will have a huge sense of relief (its not entirely me). but i fear the longer you wait the deeper the wound. you are emotionally crippling your W (for life). btw if you ended the A and was serious about R i could be persuaded not to disclose A. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflower Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 not sure what i find more troubling: the comment (especially because we all at some point fantasize about another) or the lack of outrage from this community. usually persons with an AP are looking for 'some fun', have no interest in moving on (fine: cake eating). you are in love with another but in your quest to keep your family together are DESTROYING your W. i have no doubt the MC and IC she is in is useless because she has no idea of the cause: 'what am i doing wrong?'. you are wasting her time. hopefully once you disclose she will have a huge sense of relief (its not entirely me). but i fear the longer you wait the deeper the wound. you are emotionally crippling your W (for life). btw if you ended the A and was serious about R i could be persuaded not to disclose A. Well said and several of us have mentioned this to him. I pleaded with the OP to tell his wife because she will be agony trying to figure out what is wrong/what she is doing wrong. She will likely twist herself into a pretzel trying to fix everything. I know because I did this myself. It was almost a relief when my H told me what had really been going on with him. So, so sad. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I'm taking this list and advice to IC next week... seems pretty solid. I understand that I'm still avoiding conflict but, like I've said, both IC's have said I really shouldn't tell my W everything... maybe the advice to be totally open with my W will come later, but I'll bring this up with the therapist next week. As someone else mentioned before...IC's focus on the INDIVIDUAL in front of them. Frankly, they don't give a damn about your marriage, nor your wife. Their advice will be what they think is best for you...and ONLY you. Very, very often, an IC's advice is actually extremely detrimental to the marriage. They're not paid to care about the marriage, and they won't care about it unless they are. There may be alternative methods to reach the same goal for the person they're counseling that COULD be beneficial to the marriage...but the vast majority of them simply won't bother to explore those...as I said, they're not paid to do so. So...keep that heartily in mind when you're talking with them. They may give great guidance for you...but do so at the EXPENSE of your wife, and of your marriage. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author shermanator Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 not sure what i find more troubling: the comment (especially because we all at some point fantasize about another) or the lack of outrage from this community. usually persons with an AP are looking for 'some fun', have no interest in moving on (fine: cake eating). you are in love with another but in your quest to keep your family together are DESTROYING your W. i have no doubt the MC and IC she is in is useless because she has no idea of the cause: 'what am i doing wrong?'. you are wasting her time. The 'having some fun' or getting some on the side was never my motivation... I've never been like that. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
April Moon Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 But wasn't one of your strikes against your wife was because she was "zero fun"? Which would imply that you are having fun with the other woman and are looking for that. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
cocorico Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 As someone else mentioned before...IC's focus on the INDIVIDUAL in front of them. Frankly, they don't give a damn about your marriage, nor your wife. Their advice will be what they think is best for you...and ONLY you. Very, very often, an IC's advice is actually extremely detrimental to the marriage. They're not paid to care about the marriage, and they won't care about it unless they are. There may be alternative methods to reach the same goal for the person they're counseling that COULD be beneficial to the marriage...but the vast majority of them simply won't bother to explore those...as I said, they're not paid to do so. So...keep that heartily in mind when you're talking with them. They may give great guidance for you...but do so at the EXPENSE of your wife, and of your marriage. Of course the individual matters more than the R! the health of the individual should be paramount. If the M increases the individual's health and well being, then it is a good thing, and then he IC should support the M, but if there is any conflict between the health of the M and the health of the individual, of course the IC should focus on the individual. Not just because "that is what they are paid to do", but because that is the *right* thing to do. A R only has value if it enhances someone's life. If t detracts from it - in that, the health of the individual and the health of the M conflict, then the individual should not be in the M. Link to post Share on other sites
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