mr_dave Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Sooo.. a little (actually a lot) about me first ... feel free to skip! I'm a 25 year old guy who has been single for a year after my first love met another guy. So far I have had two girlfriends, I was quite the late starter. I'm not in any rush to have just any girlfriend, I would love to find a woman I can envisage spending the rest of my life with - I would happily stay celibate until then even if it's years from now, I don't believe in casual sex. I never meet women or garner much attention from them, so I guess that puts me firmly in the beta male category. Maybe I'm a 6 or so out of ten, not a particularly good looking guy, but in my favour my physique is pretty good (very much like Christiano Ronaldo's) and people describe me as being intelligent and very nice. I tried and abandoned online dating after five months of little success, having messaged oodles of average to attractive women in the process. So I was feeling dispirited enough as it is, and then I came across the article below... Sex, love, work: inside the world of twentysomething women - Telegraph I don't have any female friends, so I pose the question to LS instead, is this a very common attitude amongst young women? That they have casual sex and sleep around in a soulless way, deadening themselves in the hope that, God forbid, they don't develop feelings for someone? The women in the article I would hope to avoid like the plague. The thing that worries me is that the women in the article, (after working their way down their checklists, sleeping with a ton of better looking guys in the process, happily being just a piece of meat to them) will decide at some point that they need a nicer guy to tick off their "husband/kids" checkbox. So they hook a decent guy, have his kids, then realise they aren't as fulfilled as their lists tell them they should be. ( I have seen this scenario play out twice amongst people known to my family, one poor chap is 42, terminally ill with a brain tumour, with a wife who was always a goer in her youth, cheated on him whilst married (they have two kids) and admitted to my mum that she has never loved him. And he's the only one who doesn't know about it! ) I would rather be eternally alone than one of those guys, but is this the game plan now for women? I would love to meet a sweet, feminine, loving woman who would make a great best friend, wife and mum, not one who wouldn't give me a second glance until her best years were behind her and she decided she wanted to play at being wife/mum and "have it all"... Are women still a bit more old fashioned/romantic abroad? (Spain, Italy, Latin America?) Should I just go for women under twenty five, and if not, just give up? I've noticed that acquaintances of mine are marrying some really lovely girls, the kind I would have liked to be with. They all seem to be getting snapped up early! Link to post Share on other sites
Frank2thepoint Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I never meet women or garner much attention from them, so I guess that puts me firmly in the beta male category. Maybe I'm a 6 or so out of ten, not a particularly good looking guy As soon as you said this, you already made yourself unattractive. You need be confident with yourself, and stop categorizing or rating yourself. Also stop chasing after girls (and wasting mental energy) that sleep with any good looking guy, while hoping they will develop feelings later. Find yourself a woman that doesn't do this (yes, they exist), has boundaries and values. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Kid_Charlemange Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 From my limited, anecdotal experience in the past few years, this isn't just among 20-somethings. I think a lot of women are now approaching casual relationships "like men do," as the article defines it. My ex now runs with a couple other women in this mode. The ex is 51 but very attractive; the other two are early 40s and overweight, but it seems like they really have no problems finding an endless stream of ONSs. All three have pretty good jobs, no kids (my ex was married, briefly, 10 years ago) and seem to find this lifestyle satisfying. I guess it makes sense; the 20-somethings aren't ready to settle down, and the 40-somethings are past settling down, so their behavior is similar. Link to post Share on other sites
GemmaUK Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Define Alpha and Beta..for a start. I like a man who isn't cocky, isn't trying to impress, is a good man rather than a nice guy who gets walked all over, has a job and can look after himself. is aware that things that go wrong are his responsibility to take on and can't all be blamed on someone else (or all other people) he likes animals and chilling in the sun on a patch of grass by a river, has his own hobbies and isn't dependant upon a relationship to make him happy. Cos he is happy already ...but just without a love life right now. Is that Alpha or Beta? ETA: I don't do casual sex, my last relationship ended April 2013, last sex was December 2012. That's a whole other story though! Edited June 23, 2014 by GemmaUK 1 Link to post Share on other sites
iris219 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Most women want to find a good guy to settle down with in their 20s, but this is easier said than done. It's very difficult to find a nice, compatible man who wants to settle down. I don't know any women who consciously hook-up with the intention of settling down later. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Teraskas Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Most women want to find a good guy to settle down with in their 20s, but this is easier said than done. It's very difficult to find a nice, compatible man who wants to settle down. I don't know any women who consciously hook-up with the intention of settling down later. /Wave. Ironically I'm one of those guys. Yet, women are completely uninterested in spending time to find such a guy, as personal experience has shown me... All of those I dated were either too hung up on their ex, preferred the party scene too much or were looking for ZERO commitment. If they were indeed 'seriously' looking for such a guy to settle down with I still wouldn't be single after nearly 2,5 years. I've said this many times before: The door to commitment is MORE than open on my end, yet the other side ? Not so much. :S 1 Link to post Share on other sites
hasaquestion Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Most women want to find a good guy to settle down with in their 20s, but this is easier said than done. It's very difficult to find a nice, compatible man who wants to settle down. I don't know any women who consciously hook-up with the intention of settling down later. Sorry but I have to call B.S. on this. Are you in your 20s? I live in a fairly big city and no one here in their 20s wants to get married anytime soon. Male or female. Lots of hooking up. I don't mind it, but lets call a spade a spade. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Bruce Leigh Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I like a man who isn't cocky, isn't trying to impress, is a good man rather than a nice guy who gets walked all over, has a job and can look after himself. is aware that things that go wrong are his responsibility to take on and can't all be blamed on someone else (or all other people) he likes animals and chilling in the sun on a patch of grass by a river, has his own hobbies and isn't dependant upon a relationship to make him happy. That's almost me !! But not quite Link to post Share on other sites
iris219 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Sorry but I have to call B.S. on this. Are you in your 20s? I live in a fairly big city and no one here in their 20s wants to get married anytime soon. Male or female. Lots of hooking up. I don't mind it, but lets call a spade a spade. I'm in my 30s and spent my entire 20s trying to find a man to settle down with. I didn't meet that man until I was 33. I was never looking to just hook up, though I know some women might settle for this because it is hard to find good men. Almost everyone I know settled down in their 20s, so as I got older, it got even harder to meet a man. It was incredibly frustrating. Link to post Share on other sites
GemmaUK Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 That's almost me !! But not quite Argh! You were perfect until you said 'almost' and 'not quite' ! *sighs and logs back in to OLD...* 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BlueIris Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Sorry but I have to call B.S. on this. Are you in your 20s? I live in a fairly big city and no one here in their 20s wants to get married anytime soon. Male or female. Lots of hooking up. I don't mind it, but lets call a spade a spade. I don't know about this.... My 27 year old daughter and her 27 year old BF are getting married this summer and all of their friends are married or in LTRs planning marriages. One couple has already had their first child. All in their late 20's, professionals, buying condos or houses, living in one of the 5 largest US cities. (Frankly, I can't imagine how anyone could live well in a major city on their own- too expensive!) I don't know which experience is more common, but "no one" isn't accurate at all. For my daughter's group of friends and colleagues, marriage is the norm. On the original question, I would think its fairly common that people who are career oriented and self-sufficient, at any age, could be resistant to relationships in which you will have to put in more than you get out of it. I hope that's not soulless or masculine, just realistic. Edited June 23, 2014 by BlueIris Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 From my limited, anecdotal experience in the past few years, this isn't just among 20-somethings. I think a lot of women are now approaching casual relationships "like men do," as the article defines it. My ex now runs with a couple other women in this mode. The ex is 51 but very attractive; the other two are early 40s and overweight, but it seems like they really have no problems finding an endless stream of ONSs. All three have pretty good jobs, no kids (my ex was married, briefly, 10 years ago) and seem to find this lifestyle satisfying. I guess it makes sense; the 20-somethings aren't ready to settle down, and the 40-somethings are past settling down, so their behavior is similar. They're old.... They are going out with a bang and they dont care anymore if they are labeled as sluts or old whores.(especially the heavy ones).....menopause is knocking on the door and might already have a foot in the crack... Dont read too much into it... TFY Link to post Share on other sites
Imajerk17 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) /Wave. Ironically I'm one of those guys. Yet, women are completely uninterested in spending time to find such a guy, as personal experience has shown me... All of those I dated were either too hung up on their ex, preferred the party scene too much or were looking for ZERO commitment. If they were indeed 'seriously' looking for such a guy to settle down with I still wouldn't be single after nearly 2,5 years. I've said this many times before: The door to commitment is MORE than open on my end, yet the other side ? Not so much. :S Women have to be attracted to you first though, it's the first step for anything. If they aren't feeling chemistry with you in the first place, nothing is going to happen. Attraction isn't going to be sparked just because you're nice, looking for commitment, or you are good-looking (if you do happen to be good-looking). That said, I do get the frustration many nice guys who struggle with attraction get when they hear a woman say "I'm looking for a good compatible man to settle down with", as the woman is leaving out a big part of the story. Goodness, similar interests, wanting a relationship while having a penis, is not enough. Whenever a woman says stuff such as "I'm looking for a good compatible man to settle down with" you can read that as "I'm looking for a good compatible man whom I feel chemistry for, to settle down with". Edited June 24, 2014 by Imajerk17 4 Link to post Share on other sites
hasaquestion Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I don't know about this.... My 27 year old daughter and her 27 year old BF are getting married this summer and all of their friends are married or in LTRs planning marriages. One couple has already had their first child. All in their late 20's, professionals, buying condos or houses, living in one of the 5 largest US cities. (Frankly, I can't imagine how anyone could live well in a major city on their own- too expensive!) I don't know which experience is more common, but "no one" isn't accurate at all. For my daughter's group of friends and colleagues, marriage is the norm. On the original question, I would think its fairly common that people who are career oriented and self-sufficient, at any age, could be resistant to relationships in which you will have to put in more than you get out of it. I hope that's not soulless or masculine, just realistic. Ha! Personally, "living in on my own" is an oversimplification. I live in a dumpy part of town, with a group of male friends that would give the Fire Marshal a stroke, and very little personal space. Its worth it! Anyway, you're right, there surely are younger folks who find that person sooner rather than later. I'm just sharing my anecdotal experience, which is that those people are the exception rather than the rule. And not directed at you, but as a general addition on the subject, I think that categorizing hookup culture as some kind of alternative to what the "good people do", which I see a lot on here, is both 1) grossly oversimplifying and 2) detrimental to the people in this age group who come on here for advice. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bruce Leigh Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Argh! You were perfect until you said 'almost' and 'not quite' ! *sighs and logs back in to OLD...* I am not a good man or a nice guy who gets walked over. Although I may have been called both of those things over the years Link to post Share on other sites
firmness Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 A few thoughts taken from different angles: 1. For decades women have been getting the message "Act like men...in order to succeed you have to be like a man...be equal...if they can do it we can do it...” etc. Unfortunately they have been emulating the weakest and horrific male behaviors. Women should be copying men by studying more math and science, picking up a shovel and mining coal, and fighting for the right to serve in the infantry. Unfortunately, that sort of emulation is not happening as much. Men will never truly respect women until they do these sorts of things and they can never truly be equal until they can take these very real risks. This is the world you live in, deal with it. 2. Women have been marrying men for money and security for ages. You are just finding this out and it will take a while to process it. Society (especially British culture) sees you as a wage slave. You are only as good as the amount of money you earn. You are worthless and disposable. Welcome to the brotherhood. It hurts, but you will adjust because you are a man. We fight, bleed, defend, protect, provide, earn, support, nurture, help, and die for the people around us. And they could not give a ****. How many WWII veterans can you name? Don’t bother, I already know the answer. And that proves my point. You will live and die and no one gives a **** about you, much less a woman. You are only valuable to your woman insofar as you serve a future purpose. Settle into that. Think about it. It is complex and ever-changing. This is reality. Deal with it. 3. Many women are indeed soulless and want just sex only – but not all women are like that. Besides, many men are the same way and we allowed that to be celebrated and joked about in movies and music videos for too long. We let that perception float around and created a generation of kids (boys and girls now) who walk around with the swagger of a diva/rocker/rapper but without the talent, intelligence or substance. Let them have each other. This is reality – you know what to do. 3. Feminism fought very hard for women to have this freedom. Do not judge it - this is actually good news! This gives you the right to sleep with whomever you want and you no longer have to court a woman, convince her to have sex, and all that. Women's bodies are not only free nowadays, they are competing with each other to give it away! The internet is overflowing with images of girls seeking attention in this way. I cannot imagine that thinking wise women are okay with this, but most women think that is “empowering”. Your instincts are right. This will hurt those women. Stay away from them. Find another type. If the good types of men and women were easy to find, we wouldn’t call them “special” would we? All that being said, try to drop all the judgments. We are all just people and we all make mistakes. Also get rid of the "alpha/beta" crap. Real men never say these words. They just dominate. Go back to the gym – although you say you have a great body, without a great attitude you are in trouble. Work on that. It is your only way forward my friend. The men just before my generation had to court a woman. They had to respect her BEFORE they had sex. They had to prove that they were worthy of her. That was a lifetime ago, when women understood respected and valued their sexual and emotional power. Women no longer understand their power in the world. And rather than seeking to share political and economic power, they are pushing too hard to get weakest male-types of power and are devaluing themselves in the process. I mean this in a strategic way, not a moralistic one. Whoever is running **** for feminists has blown it big time. Like most Western societies, we here in the US and UK have chased the almighty dollar and sex and violence too far down the road. Now we find ourselves collectively feeling empty and confused and lost in the wilderness. Now comes the time when we have to do the hard work of surviving and getting to the business of finding our way back. Be a good man. Never forget this. Stick to your beliefs and values and forget what those women are doing. If you feel the need, go use one or more of them for sex – that’s what they are doing to you, so it is mutual. When you are ready to settle you will know what to do. In the meantime, do not ever EVER get married. This note is already way too long. Forgive that. You can look up other posts on the dangers of marriage. Also look up nomoremrniceguy dot com. You might get something from that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
kodakgirl Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) I'm 26, living in a big city, and I don't know any women like that. I'm in a masters program with about 20 intelligent, motivated young women (and 3 guys, haha-- female dominated field!), most of whom are attractive, all of whom are nice and good company. 90 % are in long-term relationships, and at least half have been on the same ones for the two years of the program. I haven't met everyone's partners but the ones I have have been really nice, interesting, decent guys. These are liberal, mostly arty girls, too. I'm sure there are women out there who are indeed into career and hookups now, love later, but it really don't think it's as prevalent as the media makes it out to be. P.s. You sound like exaaaactly my type! Edited June 24, 2014 by kodakgirl 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Eggplant Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 I'm in my 20's. I'm focused on my career right now. I'm working 90+ hours per week. I do not have any interest in sex without love. It has no appeal. If I don't have time for love, so be it. I'm celibate and doing perfectly fine. By the way, once a year, some magazine writes an article about how all young women have become promiscuous just because it's trash they know people will read and become all worked up about. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 As far as sleeping around in a soulless way, I actually liked most of the guys I slept around with, so I don't consider it soulless. But yes, I think any smart person will go out and experience new people, new places and basically get out in the world and expand their universe before deciding to settle down. That said, there are plenty of girls who'd be glad to have a guy who is serious, but very few who'd want someone judgmental if they'd already had sex. Link to post Share on other sites
fortyninethousand322 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 I don't know. If a girl wanted to sleep around while she was young and then "settle" for me when she got older, I'd go with it. If I knew about it, it would probably bother me but I wouldn't ask about her sexual or relationship history so as to avoid that. Sometimes you have to take what you can get. And this whole finding somebody who loves you for you is only true for certain people. Otherwise, you're going to have to make peace with the fact that the person you're with probably wouldn't choose you if they had a better choice available to them. I actually feel sad for the number of women who will end up settling. Much more so than I feel sad for the men they settled for... Link to post Share on other sites
No Limit Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Female and yeah, career is definitely the only thing I'm really planning right now. If I find a boyfriend in any of those stages while I study, it'd be out of pure luck. I won't sleep around though, orgasms aren't that exciting without the right person. Settle down? Won't do that until I finished studying... and since med studies take 6 years I'll be in my early 30s by then. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mr_dave Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 I've been away from the internet for a while, this was almost a hit and run! Thanks for all your input. Sometimes you have to take what you can get. And this whole finding somebody who loves you for you is only true for certain people. Otherwise, you're going to have to make peace with the fact that the person you're with probably wouldn't choose you if they had a better choice available to them. I think I'd rather be alone forever to be honest! I wouldn't want be in a relationship where the other party felt an upgrade over me was even possible. I actually feel sad for the number of women who will end up settling. Much more so than I feel sad for the men they settled for... What makes you say this? I would feel a lot more sorry for the guy, having a woman who doesn't love him as much as he does her. It's the guy who would stand to lose (money, children) when she finds someone she likes more. I don't know, I feel like I was born a good 60 years too late. I would like to meet someone someday who I could get all gooey for, call my sweetheart and give ridiculous pet names to. I would like to fondly remember courting her and falling in love with her before making love, not having to tease her away from a few FWBs or suspecting that she's sleeping with other guys whilst I'm taking her on dates. I don't want to have to assume she's seeing other guys until the "exclusivity talk" which can't come too soon otherwise you'll seem needy. *Sigh Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts