Learning to trust again

[ConfusedMarriedOW]

I think the problem lies in thinking that:

 

A. Someone who feels for someone outside of a union or marriage is "bad" or innately bad. (Although I realize you are doing this to protect your heart from pain of realizing neither you or his wife were the chosen ones)

 

B. Expecting that after many years of a union, temptation doesn't rise up for all of us.

 

It is the taboo of this that makes people keep secrets. I believe "cheating" doesn't happen in good marriages or unions.

 

Good marriages to me means a marriage where two people are

 

A. Able to be extremely honest about their feelings even if for another person. To be open and honest about it. Without reprocution, shaming and punishment.

 

B. When needs are expressed, they are paid attention to. Perhaps some people need sexual variety or some need more emotional support etc.

 

"Cheating" and being "bad" only happens in the confines of a Judgemental, non communicative union.

[HBIC]

Hey there, PachucaSunrise. Yes, all is well in NC land. I have not, even for a split second, regretted my decision to end things with MM with finality. I had been very unhappy in that relationship for a long time, and by the time I pulled the trigger, I was beyond ready.

 

The result is that over the time I've been NC, I've felt lighter, happier, free. Like I've released myself from a terrible ordeal. I have absolutely NO idea whatsoever what is going on with xMM, and it feels good not to care.

 

His thinking and attitude toward others is so messed up. It's really a tremendous positive change to be rid of him.

 

XMM lacked guilt for his actions in our A [and it] always rubbed me the wrong way.

 

Someone capable of this is ultra-disturbing. Unfortunately, I was already in the A before I knew he lacked empathy.

 

What do you think you trusted about him? That [you'd] end up happily ever after? Do [we] really need to figure this out?

 

My own deranged thinking was that love conquers all and that that could excuse willfully horrific behavior to others, e.g. cheating. (sigh) This is why I trusted him. Turns out xMM was capable of being as much a jack@$$ to me as he was/is to his wife. He has a global personality problem. Yuck. I'm spending less and less time raking myself over the coals over this. I have just accepted that love does not excuse bad behavior to anyone. EVER.

 

I'm not that angry anymore, and I'm moving more and more to a state of not caring. I've forgiven myself and I think xMM just has a lot of issues. My mind is taken up with other things and new horizons.

 

Thank you for checking in with me. I am so glad we both have this ridiculousness behind us. I feel bad for all the LS posters who are in horrible pain over being in an A. Makes me so grateful to be free!!!!!

[HBIC]

My response bolded.

 

I think the problem lies in thinking that:

 

A. Someone who feels for someone outside of a union or marriage is "bad" or innately bad. (Although I realize you are doing this to protect your heart from pain of realizing neither you or his wife were the chosen ones)

Not sure where this came from from my posts. Feelings for someone else when married isn't bad. Taking action (to have an EA/PA) based on those feelings is. My take on what he chose? Either both of us or neither, if you consider he chose hurting me and W to meet his needs. Moot now, because I chose to exit stage left.

 

B. Expecting that after many years of a union, temptation doesn't rise up for all of us.

Again, not sure where this came from. Temptation is ALWAYS there.

 

It is the taboo of this that makes people keep secrets.

Nope, being selfish is what makes people keep secrets.

 

I believe "cheating" doesn't happen in good marriages or unions.

Sure it does when you are married to a selfish jerk.

 

Good marriages to me means a marriage where two people are

 

A. Able to be extremely honest about their feelings even if for another person. To be open and honest about it. Without reprocution, shaming and punishment.

 

B. When needs are expressed, they are paid attention to. Perhaps some people need sexual variety or some need more emotional support etc.

 

"Cheating" and being "bad" only happens in the confines of a Judgemental, non communicative union.

 

Mmmmmm... methinks I detect wayward thinking. Cheating is cheating. Cheating is bad. Bad is bad. In any kind of marriage. No quotes needed. There are lots of selfish jerks in the world who will cheat in a good marriage because they are jerks, not because their partner is judgmental or non-communicative. However, even if said partner is judgmental or non-communicative, cheating is still NOT OK. And it is still bad. VERY bad.

 

Accept your marriage as it is.

Work to change to make it better.

Or leave.

 

Do not cheat.

[ConfusedMarriedOW]

Okay fine you said he was "bad" with good outer layers. As if someone is good or bad. The goodies and the baddies. Life isn't so simple.

 

I just find it interesting that you were okay with him cheating as long as he wasn't a variety cake eater. I don't see how that makes you any different. Your pride was hurt and that is why you left and now you are seeing things clearly?

 

Anyway, to each their own. My xMM didn't seem to value me either enough to not be distracted by other women as well, it also hurt my pride, but I am not making exceptions to the rule to fit the scenario.

 

If people were a little more honest with eachother withOUT judgement, cheating would be off topic. And you wouldn't have to worry about being betrayed.

 

And of course not everyone is the same. Some men aren't even highly sexual. Which is the case with MY husband. It isn't hard to detect me being "wayward" when my Screenname says as much.

[HBIC]

Okay fine you said he was "bad" with good outer layers. As if someone is good or bad. The goodies and the baddies. Life isn't so simple.

 

I just find it interesting that you were okay with him cheating as long as he wasn't a variety cake eater. I don't see how that makes you any different. Your pride was hurt and that is why you left and now you are seeing things clearly?

 

Anyway, to each their own. My xMM didn't seem to value me either enough to not be distracted by other women as well, it also hurt my pride, but I am not making exceptions to the rule to fit the scenario.

 

If people were a little more honest with eachother withOUT judgement, cheating would be off topic. And you wouldn't have to worry about being betrayed.

 

And of course not everyone is the same. Some men aren't even highly sexual. Which is the case with MY husband. It isn't hard to detect me being "wayward" when my Screenname says as much.

 

Sorry that my earlier post was so, er, non diplomatic. I'm feeling my inner bee-otch lately

 

No one is good or bad. We are all a combo of the two. XMM's bad includes the capability to cheat and eat cake. His good could fill an entire page of posts.

 

It's true I was (key word) OK with the cheating if he was going to make a quick exit. And it's true that I know better now. I'm grateful for the lesson. As to my pride? Here's the Merriam-Webster definition:

pride (noun)

-a feeling that you respect yourself and deserve to be respected by other people

-a feeling that you are more important or better than other people

-a feeling of happiness that you get when you or someone you know does something good, difficult, etc.

 

I can honestly say that my pride was not hurt by xMM's cake-eating. I respect myself and do deserve to be respected. Hence why I left xMM. I do not think I am more important or better than others. Hence why I told his wife, apologized, and initiated NC. In the really, really big picture, we are all equal in importance. I always accepted that she is the one who is married to him. Not me. As to the last part about happiness? Being with xMM was both happy and sad. Being without xMM has been mostly happy. His choice to eat cake is what got him dumped, which released me to be joyful. Do I seem like I am moping about not being his choice?

 

As to honesty and cheating: you are right. If you were to say to your partner, "Hey, honey, tomorrow night, instead of coming home from work, I'm going to f*&^ the brains out of this young guy I have the crazy hots for, tell him I love him, and snuggle with him for a few hours, then come home and help you around the house" that would not be cheating.

 

I've read your story and knew you are a wayward, but, yes, your screenname is unambiguous.

 

I know I'm being a bit beachy to you. We're all on a journey in life and I'm just in a different head space than you right now. In any case, I know that you went through and are going through a great deal of pain. Hang in there and pay no attention to my posts if they aren't helpful for you.

Edited July 2, 2014 by HBIC

[christine1958]

HBIC, I'm fascinated by your move to tell your xMM's wife about your affair. That took a lot of guts. I read through some of your posts and didn't see answers to some questions I have.

By way of background, I've thought of doing the same, but only if will add some value to this exercise. My MM and wife are beginning counseling tomorrow. He's moved out and has told me he will refuse to comply with a NC recommendation. He's still deciding whether or not to stay. The wife knows he and I have feelings for each other but has no definitive knowledge about our physical relationship.

 

Anyway, if you wouldn't mind, my questions.

1) It sounds like telling the wife was an integral part of your exit plan, to make sure the last nail was in the coffin. Do you have any regrets about telling her?

2) Did you have to convince her or did she seem to realize you were telling the truth straight away?

3) What was the timeline? You told him it was over, then told the wife or vice versa?

 

It sounds like you're on the mend and it's encouraging to read your posts. Thanks so much

[HBIC]

Hi Christine, my ramblings bolded.

HBIC, I'm fascinated by your move to tell your xMM's wife about your affair. That took a lot of guts. Thank you. I read through some of your posts and didn't see answers to some questions I have.

By way of background, I've thought of doing the same, but only if will add some value to this exercise. What do you mean by this?

Why do you want to tell the wife? Really, really ask yourself this question.

If the answer is to push MM and W apart, good luck with that. It very likely will push them together. I told the wife so that the addiction cycle I had with xMM would be over and because his wife has a right to know. I knew xMM would be absolutely steaming mad at me and finally leave me alone.

 

My MM and wife are beginning counseling tomorrow. He's moved out and has told me he will refuse to comply with a NC recommendation. He's still deciding whether or not to stay. The wife knows he and I have feelings for each other but has no definitive knowledge about our physical relationship.

 

Eh. Another cake eater. Please, for your own sanity: tell him to enjoy the MC and get back to you when divorce papers are final. Then go NC.

 

Anyway, if you wouldn't mind, my questions.

Can't give too much detail or answer everything but I'll do my best.

 

1) It sounds like telling the wife was an integral part of your exit plan, to make sure the last nail was in the coffin. Do you have any regrets about telling her?

Yes, it was a necessary part of my exit plan. I have absolutely no regrets whatsoever. With each passing day, I am more and more glad I did it. But my goal was to get MM the hell away from me.

 

2) Did you have to convince her or did she seem to realize you were telling the truth straight away?

I can't answer this question because it would reveal too much detail for my comfort level. Suffice to say, it makes no difference whatsoever to me what her reaction was. I am not in their marriage, and I have no wish to try to control how she processes information or lives her life.

 

3) What was the timeline? You told him it was over, then told the wife or vice versa?

Again, too much detail but I will say telling the wife was tantamount to telling xMM to eff off. XMM was already well aware of my issues with the A. I communicated them to him very clearly and often.

 

It sounds like you're on the mend and it's encouraging to read your posts. Thanks so much

 

Thanks! As I mentioned, it sounds like you want to be with your MM. Telling his wife is NOT going to send him running into your arms. They will circle the wagons.

 

What I recommend instead is telling him that cake eating is unacceptable. Let him go to MC but initiate NC with him and BE 100% CONSISTENT about it. It's hard but otherwise you are choosing to put your heart in a meat grinder.

 

Good luck!

 

[HBIC]

I should add some other details that pushed me toward telling xMM's wife:

 

1. She suspected that he was having an affair with me. She was in great pain over it. He was gaslighting her and felt no guilt about it.

 

2. She has a right to know that xMM has no regard for her health. He may go on to be a serial cheater and he hates condoms.

 

Any wife deserves to know that she is married to that kind of person to be able to make informed choices about how to live her life.