DannyMason Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 A lot of Forever Alone guys grew up thinking that the best way to earn a woman's heart was to be "nice" to her, eg doing favors for her, being emotionally supportive, etc. We grow up bitter about how overlooked we are and are puzzled by the hostile reactions we get when we complain about how women fail to appreciate our niceness. Clearly most people, even most men it seems, don't think as highly of the virtue of "niceness" as we Forever Alone types do. My theory is that FAs put to much emphasis on the ideal of being "nice" because of projection. Most FAs were bullied and ostracized growing up so we learned to really appreciate the rare occasions when others were "nice" to us. We then wrongly imagine that everyone else appreciates niceness the same way and use it as a major tool in our social interactions. However, other people who didn't face rejection and abuse don't emphasize "niceness" the same way because other people being nice to them was a mundane reality rather than a welcome bit of respite from a hostile world. That's why they dismiss nice guys as feeling entitled for meeting the bare minimum standards of decency while Nice Guys think they're really something special just for being nice- in a Forever Alone guy's experience being a nice person really is exceptional. Link to post Share on other sites
Candy_Pants Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Interesting!! Is it truly "nice" to expect things (sexual and otherwise) for being nice? 19 Link to post Share on other sites
Grumpybutfun Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I also have a theory about lonely self described nice guys. They are only nice for the reward of getting girls so they aren't really nice, just wanting something from someone else. I'm a fairly nice guy in that I am nice to everyone, the old lady I used to take groceries to in the winter, the guy in school people picked on, the woman who needed help with her husbands stuff after he died, etc. I didn't just reserve it to get a gf. When single, as now, I'm a helpful and conscientious person who is nice because it is the right thing to do, not the payoff of getting what I want. The word nice is being misused like so many other words these days and it is a breakdown in the mental fabric of society that we allow this to happen. The best thing guys can do is become a genuinely good, well rounded person, taking care of their health, get involved in activities that promote wellness and friendships, get a great education in and outside the classroom which means self studying great philosophers, reading biographies and history, a great career they enjoy, and become accomplished in goals they set for themselves. If they are helpful, it is with everyone, not because they want to get laid or attention from girls. Also, buying stuff expecting attention for a girl is a waste of time. Materialism doesn't promote niceness, just the opposite, it promotes the idea that if you buy a girl something she should reward you with something. That is called prostitution. Short version of this post....Nice guys are the ones who are nice to everyone for no other reason than it is the right thing to do. Good luck, Grumps Edited June 25, 2014 by Grumpybutfun 22 Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I find that the guys you classify as FA, think nice is synonomous with doormat. You can be polite and still be confident & self assured. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
FrostBlaze Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Most nice guys are doormats because they don't know any better. I will agree with your theory to some point, they went through to much **** and think niceness is quite something so they share it with all and expect it in return. They expect niceness to be as FULLFILING to others as it is to them. Because if you we're nice to one of these bullied FA guys/girls, that's enough for them to wanna sleep with you and get attached, lol. So they think that being nice with others would share the same result, because it would work on them. Don't get me wrong, it's not like they are trying to manipulate u into screwing them, they just have this warped way of thinking. They either wake up with time or end up bitter. I'm working on it . Link to post Share on other sites
Keenly Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Its entirely possible, I wouldn't rule it out. Perhaps the only thing they bring to the table is their niceness. There has to be, an underlying reason she would want to date you, whether its attraction, excitement, adventure, humor, status. SOMETHING. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
fortyninethousand322 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Yes and no. Being nice is actually supposed to help you attract people who are also nice. Sort of like a "treat people as you want to be treated" kind of thing. If you act nice, you'll get treated in kind. In general, sometimes you meet crappy people. It's very similar to why people respect each other's property rights. You hope that yours will be respect in kind. Won't always happen, but in general it holds true. If you're a pleasant person who doesn't cheat, lie, steal, needlessly make fun of others, and so on, you hope that you will be treated the same by other people. In the world of dating though, this does not hold true. Lots and lots of terrible human beings get dates, girlfriends, wives and all of that every day. The conclusion isn't to become a bad guy. The conclusion is that if you're struggling with women, it's likely because you're unattractive in some way. Could be physical, could be mental, could be anything really. It's also likely to never change. Best to just live with it. Link to post Share on other sites
potsticker Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I think FAs have an inflated sense of their own "niceness" and that itself is often what confuses them into thinking the world "must" reward them. Sort of like how donations to charities make you feel like a better person than you were right before your donated without making you feel like you've ever been a worse person. Link to post Share on other sites
Bruce Leigh Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Short version of this post....Nice guys are the ones who are nice to everyone for no other reason than it is the right thing to do. What if the only thing you got out of doing something nice for somebody else was a good feeling inside yourself? 5 Link to post Share on other sites
spiderowl Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I don't think that's quite it, to be honest. Look at it like this. I am a nice woman, a very nice woman, sweet-natured, caring, loving. However, I know that a guy is not going to be attracted to me for that reason. He would firstly be attracted by looks, then he might enjoy my sense of humour or manner or if I was a playful character. He might enjoy spending time with me if I did interesting things and had hobbies he shared. He might enjoy it if I was a strong character who could stand up for herself but still enjoyed being feminine and sexy with a guy. The last thing he'd be interested in is whether I was nice or not, but he might see it as a bonus. I could tell him how nice I was until the cows came home; if there wasn't that spark there it would fall on deaf ears. Why do nice guys think it's any different for them? Edited June 25, 2014 by spiderowl 12 Link to post Share on other sites
littleplanet Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 So what's the opposite of nice? (a bit of a rhetorical question) and this is supposed to accomplish........what, exactly? Methinks that it's too damned many Hollywood movies where the hero (who's a wee bit of a rogue, shall we say?) gets the girl - and leaves the loser "nice guy" in his wake............... Yah. I figure about 97.3% of all the people who've ever known me would peg me for a nice guy. Bully for me. Brownie points all around. Dinner at my house at 8 sharp. Don't be late. Nice hasn't a damned thing to do with it. Conscience, golden rules, classical training, healthy morals and ethics, sympathy, empathy and good basic instincts.....has everything to do with it. (being housetrained doesn't hurt, either.) I think any man of any age I ever ran into who raged in bitter frustration that his "niceness" was the source of his romantic failures................. is just a dawg barking up the wrong live oak, you know? Which, just offhand.....makes me ponder for a minute: What would be the female equivalent of a nice guy? (Warning! Lateral thinker just moved off-topic like a sideways-swooping UFO.) I just can't help it. Link to post Share on other sites
littleplanet Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I don't think that's quite it, to be honest. Look at it like this. I am a nice woman, a very nice woman, sweet-natured, caring, loving. However, I know that a guy is not going to be attracted to me for that reason. He would firstly be attracted by looks, then he might enjoy my sense of humour or manner or if I was a playful character. He might enjoy spending time with me if I did interesting things and had hobbies he shared. He might enjoy it if I was a strong character who could stand up for herself but still enjoyed being feminine and sexy with a guy. The last thing he'd be interested in is whether I was nice or not, but he might see it as a bonus. I could tell him how nice I was until the cows came home; if there wasn't that spark there it would fall on deaf ears. Why do nice guys think it's any different for them? Words of wisdom, this. Link to post Share on other sites
Imported Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 A lot of Forever Alone guys grew up thinking that the best way to earn a woman's heart was to be "nice" to her, eg doing favors for her, being emotionally supportive, etc. We grow up bitter ..... Why did you do favors for her or be emotionally supportive etc? Link to post Share on other sites
Imported Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 The last thing he'd be interested in is whether I was nice or not, but he might see it as a bonus. ? I like your post, but you're wrong here. You being nice is an absolute requirement. It is not the first thing I look for and..well, there isn't an order of how I do things here. It's just some nice people aren't always appearntly nice. Some of the most loyal people aren't nice to everyone. So I will try to get to know them without being too harsh on some points first. But yeah...looks, agreeable personality and we'll go down that road and see what we see. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Targetlock Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I do nice to things because I want to do them, not because I expect a reward i feel better through good actions and the knowledge that I have done something good. but then again I'm a care worker and enjoy the fact that I'm doing a job that is rewarding and worthwhile. I guess you just have to be careful that you don't become a 'door-mat'. Link to post Share on other sites
iiiii Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 In my experience, self proclaimed "nice guys", generally aren't really all that nice. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
fortyninethousand322 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 In my experience, self proclaimed "nice guys", generally aren't really all that nice. No one is. The world is kind of a bleak place. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Keenly Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 The problem with the FA people and the nice guys is that they refuse to play the game. It takes a special person to get turned down over and over for the same reason yet still doesn't make any changes. I had to laugh and share, because I immediately thought of this 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TigerLilly78 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 FA Forever alone? I don't get this some kind of new label? Link to post Share on other sites
Keenly Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 FA Forever alone? I don't get this some kind of new label? Forever Alone | Know Your Meme Link to post Share on other sites
AnyaNova Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 If anybody other than some Clinical or research psychologist has done a better analysis and breakdown of the "nice guy" phenomenon than Dr. NerdLove, I have yet to see it. Candypants hit the nail on the head. Nice guys aren't actually nice. They're using niceness to get sexual favors and attention, and when it fails, then they blame the woman. The woman, who nine times out of ten has been completely upfront that she only sees the guy as a friend. Now, there are definitely very nice guys in the friend zone, as opposed to "Nice Guys.' I have a guy friend who is absolutely awesome. If it weren't for one very changeable factor (which he is working on changing) I would go for him a millisecond. But that factor is right now a factor, and we're both clear on that. But back at the start of our friendship he made it clear that he will be fine, even if for the rest of our lives, we're just friends and nothing more. That friendship is something good and desirable and that if the truth be told, he'd like more with me, but friendship to him isn't the "consolation prize" or the thing he uses to get me later down the road. It is a genuine joy in and of itself. That is a genuine nice guy in the friend zone. Nice Guys on the other hand, are the liars. They go into the friendship under completely false pretenses expecting that eventually his niceness will cause her to fall into his arms. It doesn't work like that. And when it doesn't, then he gets upset at the cold bitch who won't fall into his arms, (in most cases) rather than admit that she was upfront with him from the get go and that he was the one acting in bad faith, she loses the friend and confidante she thought she could trust in, and a strange angry dude takes his place, and yet, in his perspective, she is somehow at fault for this. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_K Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 There is an excellent rebuttal to the 'nice guys are actually evil' theory here Skip past the first 2 mins to avoid the intro. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author DannyMason Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 Interesting!! Is it truly "nice" to expect things (sexual and otherwise) for being nice? In my opinion there's a spectrum between manipulative and insincere sentiments some "nice guys" might hold, like "Alright, I've been decent to you for a few minutes, spread your legs like you're supposed to!" and "I'm Dudley Doright and I constantly do good things for everyone with no expectation of reciprocation and perpetually let others take advantage of me". I find it strange that neither the critics or the "nice guys" themselves ever seem to bring up this version of the jerk-doormat dichotomy especially when the idea of jerks and doormats seem to come up frequently in these discussions. Link to post Share on other sites
Author DannyMason Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 I also have a theory about lonely self described nice guys. They are only nice for the reward of getting girls so they aren't really nice, just wanting something from someone else. I'm a fairly nice guy in that I am nice to everyone, the old lady I used to take groceries to in the winter, the guy in school people picked on, the woman who needed help with her husbands stuff after he died, etc. I didn't just reserve it to get a gf. When single, as now, I'm a helpful and conscientious person who is nice because it is the right thing to do, not the payoff of getting what I want. The word nice is being misused like so many other words these days and it is a breakdown in the mental fabric of society that we allow this to happen. The best thing guys can do is become a genuinely good, well rounded person, taking care of their health, get involved in activities that promote wellness and friendships, get a great education in and outside the classroom which means self studying great philosophers, reading biographies and history, a great career they enjoy, and become accomplished in goals they set for themselves. If they are helpful, it is with everyone, not because they want to get laid or attention from girls. Also, buying stuff expecting attention for a girl is a waste of time. Materialism doesn't promote niceness, just the opposite, it promotes the idea that if you buy a girl something she should reward you with something. That is called prostitution. Short version of this post....Nice guys are the ones who are nice to everyone for no other reason than it is the right thing to do. Good luck, Grumps I agree that many nice guys might actually be not so great people who feign niceness around women. But why do people assume that all self-identified "nice guys" are like this? I've never seen any evidence for it. Maybe the nice guys who complain about it really are nice to everyone and just give the girl they're after a double helping of it. Link to post Share on other sites
April Moon Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 In my experience, self proclaimed "nice guys", generally aren't really all that nice. I tend to stay away from guys who proclaim themselves to be nice and then throw a temper tantrum when a girl rejects them. I would consider my boyfriend to be a nice guy. He is respectful to everyone, helpful, and refuses to cuss around me because I'm a lady. He doesn't consider himself to be a "nice guy"; he says he is just being a guy. Link to post Share on other sites
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