A theory about lonely nice guys

[AnyaNova]

If the guy had no desire to be her friend then why is it a bad thing that he gives up pulls away his affection?

 

It sounds like you're trying to dehumanize the guy. Why is he supposed to keep being her friend and have no desires of his own?

 

The only bad thing about is if if the guy blows up, and guys are not the only ones who would do that if they don't get their way.

 

If he begin legitimately only wanting friendship, or being clear that from the begin that he wanted more but either would be fine with only friendship in the end or clarifying from the get go if she's single that if more can't develop he'll need to leave, that is fine.

 

 

But you can't see the problem with going into the friendship manipulatively and passive aggressively, when she has only and ever been upfront that she sees him as a friend, and then blames her as the cold bitch and retracts his friendship and support when she can't give him more than she clearly stated at the beginning?

 

Seeing a problem with this is dehumanizing to the guy? Can you please show me how?

[fortyninethousand322]

If he begin legitimately only wanting friendship, or being clear that from the begin that he wanted more but either would be fine with only friendship in the end or clarifying from the get go if she's single that if more can't develop he'll need to leave, that is fine.

 

 

But you can't see the problem with going into the friendship manipulatively and passive aggressively, when she has only and ever been upfront that she sees him as a friend, and then blames her as the cold bitch and retracts his friendship and support when she can't give him more than she clearly stated at the beginning?

 

Seeing a problem with this is dehumanizing to the guy? Can you please show me how?

 

Query: do people classify each other as "friends" or "potential love interests" all the time? Are people always open about their interests?

 

When I meet a girl, I don't always imagine dating her. Sometimes that happens, but not always. Sometimes you meet a girl and then you get feelings after a couple of times hanging out or something like that.

 

Also, a lot of the guys who complain about this type of thing are not the kind of guys who feel comfortable being open about their feelings because they're afraid the woman in question will freak out and laugh at them or call them creepy, etc. Men who are good at attracting women don't complain about this type of thing. So you have to keep in mind the kind of guy who would befriend a woman but want more.

[hotpotato]

So it was OK for the woman in the story to try and take advantage of him?

 

Do you also believe that her "He's my bitch comment" was appropriate?"

 

Take advantage? It sounds like he chose to be nice to her on his own volition. He shouldnt expect her to do A because he did XYZ. This is especially true since she was already in a relationship. Ok, what she did wasnt nice, but he is not some innocent victim either.

 

Ive down nice gestures for men. Im not going to sit here and cry about it because it didnt work. For example, I baked a guy a cake not long after his first date. It was handcrafted from the flour to the icing. Nothing materialized. Truthfully, he didnt give me many signs that he was interested.

 

Am I upset? Nope.

 

In romantic relationships you have to learn to let go of the outcome.

 

Im not buying this,"Pity the nice guy who tries to break up relationships!" This guy is a walking contradiction. He's so nice he will court someone else's girlfriend.

 

 

 

 

Please everyone at your pc or mobile device wait while I try to find some sympathy for this dude...

 

 

 

 

 

 

No wait never mind its not there!

[hotpotato]

I don't know. It's hard to put a finger on what exactly a "jerk" is. A former friend of mine tried to hook up with my underage sister once despite her repeated rejections. I'd say that's jerky behavior. That guy has never had a problem getting dates though, oddly enough.

 

If you're the kind of person who would make fun of people or run a red light on purpose out of impatience and not feel bad about it, you're most likely a jerk. Also, if you curl on the squat rack.

 

If you're a genuinely nice person who happens to be extra nice to someone you're dating or hope to date, I see nothing wrong with that. Most guys would pay for their date's dinner or pick them up for a date, dress up nice (matching the occasion), stuff like that. Most guys wouldn't do those things for their friends.

 

I also wonder what exactly a jerk is.

 

Of course, when we like someone we go out of our way to make them happy. At the same time, there is a differencd from a man being gallant and a passive aggressive nice guy.

 

How do we know for sure all these bfs are being jerks? How do we know for sure the relationship dynamics?

 

I wonder if passive aggressive nice guys are confusing assertive and straight forward with being a jerk???

[ThaWholigan]

I also wonder what exactly a jerk is.

 

Of course, when we like someone we go out of our way to make them happy. At the same time, there is a differencd from a man being gallant and a passive aggressive nice guy.

 

How do we know for sure all these bfs are being jerks? How do we know for sure the relationship dynamics?

 

I wonder if passive aggressive nice guys are confusing assertive and straight forward with being a jerk???

I think this is a good point - in a lot of cases, "jerks" aren't actually jerks at all .

[AnyaNova]

Query: do people classify each other as "friends" or "potential love interests" all the time? Are people always open about their interests?

 

When I meet a girl, I don't always imagine dating her. Sometimes that happens, but not always. Sometimes you meet a girl and then you get feelings after a couple of times hanging out or something like that.

 

Also, a lot of the guys who complain about this type of thing are not the kind of guys who feel comfortable being open about their feelings because they're afraid the woman in question will freak out and laugh at them or call them creepy, etc. Men who are good at attracting women don't complain about this type of thing. So you have to keep in mind the kind of guy who would befriend a woman but want more.

 

I think the problem isn't necessarily wanting more, per se. Like that situation with my own friend. We were both upfront from the beginning, and so nobody is going to be confused or surprised.

 

Though I think in an ideal world, both men and women can and should be this upfront, I realize it often doesn't happen. Also, yes, men might be afraid of such a result, but then again, if they have been friends with this woman for long enough to not know whether she will freak out, insult, or laugh at them, they really don't know her well enough to be in a relationship.

 

Also, if they know her well enough to know that she would, why would they be friends with her anyway? Why would they want to be friends with any woman who wouldn't be at the least understanding and kind, even if she didn't reciprocate the feelings and tell him so kindly?

 

I think the problem comes when the Nice Guys blame, insult, get angry at, and hurt the woman in question, and when they don't trust her enough to be honest with her.

[Badsingularity]

 

I wonder if passive aggressive nice guys are confusing assertive and straight forward with being a jerk???

 

Yep.

 

I've had guys like this say I was a jerk simply for being myself. They play a role that they think will make women like them and are always afraid to be themselves because they are scared if they make one wrong move women won't like them anymore. While they were thinking I was a jerk the women in the room were laughing and having a good time with me. I'm sure if you asked any woman that knows me she would tell you i'm very nice, but to the " nice guys" i'm a jerk for not being a wuss.

.

[hotpotato]

I think this is a good point - in a lot of cases, "jerks" aren't actually jerks at all .

 

lOL. Apparently, trying to 'steal' someone girlfriend isn't being a jerk. We can scratch that off the list.

[hotpotato]

Yep.

 

I've had guys like this say I was a jerk simply for being myself. They play a role that they think will make women like them and are always afraid to be themselves because they are scared if they make one wrong move women won't like them anymore. While they were thinking I was a jerk the women in the room were laughing and having a good time with me. I'm sure if you asked any woman that knows me she would tell you i'm very nice, but to the " nice guys" i'm a jerk for not being a wuss.

.

 

Exactly.

 

People want to be with people who are themselves. Genuine people have a charm to them even if they aren't perfectly "nice."

[somedude81]

I also wonder what exactly a jerk is.

 

Of course, when we like someone we go out of our way to make them happy. At the same time, there is a differencd from a man being gallant and a passive aggressive nice guy.

 

How do we know for sure all these bfs are being jerks? How do we know for sure the relationship dynamics?

 

I wonder if passive aggressive nice guys are confusing assertive and straight forward with being a jerk???

 

If the girl is constantly complaining about her boyfriend and talks about all the rude things he does and says to her, my guess is that he's a jerk.

 

Why she doesn't just leave him, I don't know.

[hotpotato]

If the girl is constantly complaining about her boyfriend and talks about all the rude things he does and says to her, my guess is that he's a jerk.

 

Why she doesn't just leave him, I don't know.

 

Two sides to every story...

[somedude81]

Two sides to every story...

 

So then you think it's normal for a girl to always complain that her boyfriend disrespects her?

[fortyninethousand322]

If the girl is constantly complaining about her boyfriend and talks about all the rude things he does and says to her, my guess is that he's a jerk.

 

Why she doesn't just leave him, I don't know.

 

I don't know. I think the more likely scenario is that she just likes attention. And so she complains. Squeaky wheel gets the grease after all.

 

Whenever I hear someone complain about something like that (bad relationship, guy/girl is cheating, etc.), I figure if they're not doing something about it, that's how they like things to be. All the justifications are just excuses, often to yourself. Revealed preference...

[Discjockey80]

What it all boils down to here is that 'nice' guys aren't really nice. Rather they are manipulative and are NOT genuine or emotionally brave.

 

Men....real well balanced men...know how to properly express themselves and have the confidence and faith to do so. 'Nice' guys are essentially emotional cowards. They disguise their true intentions, feel ashamed of sexual desires and use feigned 'niceness' as a way to draw closer to a woman in the hopes of igniting her sexuality.

 

Has nothing to do with genuine niceness. It's all about playing games because they are fearful of their own desires and want everyone to like them just a certain way, especially women.

 

They don't step up and step out. Rather they hide behind a persona designed to give them what they think will someone sexually gratify them by winning them a woman.

 

This is misguided and indicates bad character.

 

Again...not at all to be confused with genuine goodness.

[fortyninethousand322]

What it all boils down to here is that 'nice' guys aren't really nice. Rather they are manipulative and are NOT genuine or emotionally brave.

 

Men....real well balanced men...know how to properly express themselves and have the confidence and faith to do so. 'Nice' guys are essentially emotional cowards. They disguise their true intentions, feel ashamed of sexual desires and use feigned 'niceness' as a way to draw closer to a woman in the hopes of igniting her sexuality.

 

Has nothing to do with genuine niceness. It's all about playing games because they are fearful of their own desires and want everyone to like them just a certain way, especially women.

 

They don't step up and step out. Rather they hide behind a persona designed to give them what they think will someone sexually gratify them by winning them a woman.

 

This is misguided and indicates bad character.

 

Again...not at all to be confused with genuine goodness.

 

Is it possible to be a good person and be afraid to express your true feelings to women?

 

I figure if a woman finds out I like her, she'll run away as fast as she can. Why? Because that's what always happens. Doesn't mean I'm nice as a ruse. Maybe I'm nice to everyone.

 

And, I'm never bitter at women for not liking me. Nor am I mad when I'm rejected. Sad? Yes. Depressed? Yes. Self hating? Yes. Makes me not want to put myself at risk for rejection again? Yes.

 

But I don't what that has to do with "being a good person"...

[BlueIris]

ppl who had ****ty experiences are kinder.

 

I have not found that to be true. Some are hard-edged, deceitful and even cruel believing that that is strength or the way of the world, and believing that others made them that way.

[Targetlock]

Is it possible to be a good person and be afraid to express your true feelings to women?

 

I figure if a woman finds out I like her, she'll run away as fast as she can. Why? Because that's what always happens. Doesn't mean I'm nice as a ruse. Maybe I'm nice to everyone.

 

And, I'm never bitter at women for not liking me. Nor am I mad when I'm rejected. Sad? Yes. Depressed? Yes. Self hating? Yes. Makes me not want to put myself at risk for rejection again? Yes.

 

But I don't what that has to do with "being a good person"...

 

Yeah this is the same problem for me, good old confidence again my weak spot it seems but yeah in my dealings and with women i try and be myself and it that is a nice guy so be it, I just don't treat women like crap and act like a bad boy that just isn't me or how I do things i guess, don't see the point of being something I'm not in order to get dates, prefer to be honest though i can be a bit shy and awkward when it comes to dating.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Targetlock

[MissBee]

As for the whole nice guy thing.

 

What is wrong with a guy trying to be extra nice to a girl hoping that she will start to like him?

 

Because there is more to it than that....

 

Just read OP's post.

 

There are usually a lot more issues wrapped up in that obsession with being nice.

 

Nice people are nice with no ulterior motive. "Nice guys" are another story and have issues of insecurity, projection, entitlement and the list goes on.

 

Be nice because you're nice...even though nice is a transient thing and not a real quality. But being nice because you want someone to like you just seems absurd. Girls don't like a man because he is nice. They like him because they like him. A man can be perfectly nice and a woman think him perfectly nice but has zero attraction to him. Be yourself. A man who is confident and well-adjusted gets this...a man who isn't wastes time trying to get pity vaj by being nice then throws a tantrum when it doesn't work.

[BlueIris]

A man who is confident and well-adjusted gets this...a man who isn't wastes time trying to get pity vaj by being nice then throws a tantrum when it doesn't work.

 

And you can sense the tantrum just below the surface. It's palpable.

 

Self-professed Nice Guys are often chronic comparers. Some are obsessed with comparing themselves to other men and to women.

[Eggplant]

If a man wants to get with me, being a good person is absolutely necessary. If he is screwing over other people, I feel the hot shame of his actions and can't handle being associated with him.

 

 

Being a good person is necessary, but not sufficient. If at the end of the day (literally and figuratively) the two of us don't both enjoy talking to each other, absolutely nothing he has does me any good.

[hotpotato]

So then you think it's normal for a girl to always complain that her boyfriend disrespects her?

 

A lot of people complain about their spouses.

 

See, when people complain about others, they usually do it in a way that makes the other person look bad and themselves look good. Human nature.

 

If someone complains that doesn't mean they are intending to leave. I know people with some serious and legit gripes against the other partner, but it took them a long time to leave.

 

 

Why are you trying to gloss over him chasing someone taken? Would you like for someone to chase your gf? Do nice guys not have to follow the golden rule?

[hotpotato]

And you can sense the tantrum just below the surface. It's palpable.

 

Self-professed Nice Guys are often chronic comparers. Some are obsessed with comparing themselves to other men and to women.

 

Exactly. The anger is bubbling just beneath the surface.

[you_can_not_see_me]

Take advantage? It sounds like he chose to be nice to her on his own volition. He shouldnt expect her to do A because he did XYZ. This is especially true since she was already in a relationship. Ok, what she did wasnt nice, but he is not some innocent victim either.

 

Ive down nice gestures for men. Im not going to sit here and cry about it because it didnt work. For example, I baked a guy a cake not long after his first date. It was handcrafted from the flour to the icing. Nothing materialized. Truthfully, he didnt give me many signs that he was interested.

 

Am I upset? Nope.

 

In romantic relationships you have to learn to let go of the outcome.

 

Im not buying this,"Pity the nice guy who tries to break up relationships!" This guy is a walking contradiction. He's so nice he will court someone else's girlfriend.

 

 

 

 

Please everyone at your pc or mobile device wait while I try to find some sympathy for this dude...

 

 

 

 

 

 

No wait never mind its not there!

The bold part is obviously not true! or you would not have even attempted anything with him.

 

Sure you can say you weren't heart broken or anything but saying that you weren't disappointed when a guy you liked didn't have mutual feelings is just a lie.

 

 

I really don't get why people are so afraid of admitting that something upsets them, its almost as if a person's dignity nowadays is measured in how much you don't give a ****. if that's the case psychopaths have already won the race, they are the most dignified individuals alive.

[hotpotato]

The bold part is obviously not true! or you would not have even attempted anything with him.

 

Sure you can say you weren't heart broken or anything but saying that you weren't disappointed when a guy you liked didn't have mutual feelings is just a lie.

 

 

I really don't get why people are so afraid of admitting that something upsets them, its almost as if a person's dignity nowadays is measured in how much you don't give a ****. if that's the case psychopaths have already won the race, they are the most dignified individuals alive.

 

Sure I was disappointed, but he doesn't have to date me because I baked him a cake.

 

It was something nice that I wanted to do.

 

This is what people are complaining about. Nice guys expect women do fall in line because he did X,Y,Z. The point of the story about the cake was to illustrate that I didn't get upset because I baked him a cake and he didn't date me. It was not tit for tat and shouldn't be tit for tat. That's the part of relationships that nice guys miss.

 

I've had guys come and say it,"I have bee nice to you and waiting for so long, why aren't we having sex/dating?"

"I texted you and talked to you, now you're dating him?" It's always I did this, so date me/sex me b****!

Edited June 30, 2014 by hotpotato

[fortyninethousand322]

I have known far more men who were depressed/sad when women they liked only viewed them as friends (or otherwise rejected them) than I've known men who expected women to date them because they were "nice".

 

To me, feeling worthless about rejection is a normal and perfectly fine reaction that shows someone finds more fault with themselves than they do with women.

 

I just don't know where these "nice guys" even are. They seem like an internet myth. Nobody can possibly be that dense. Right?