A theory about lonely nice guys

[Charlie Harper]

I have a lot of female friends, and most of them have this entitlement that makes them look for controlling type of relationships, destructive partners, and outright liars and jerks. I have this group of 12 women and we go out and have a great time, I am the only guy in that group, the watssapp group is a blast. When we go out we chit chat but I have lunch or breakfast with almost all of them separately, and I know a lot of stuff of each one, it amazes me how many info they whit hold on their real relationships and their lovers !!!

("They" meaning 3 of them) for example are dating this huge player and jerk and they don't know he whole picture, this guy sometimes excuses himself with one, because he made plans with another… so since they don't say anything about it when we all get together, nobody "officially" knows !!!

They love this creep because he tell them the most farfetched lies and caters to their insecurities and sells himself as a millionaire..and they (my women friends) pay the trips and food!!!

 

They all consider me a catch and a nice guy, but for them I have 2 big defects, I am not the controlling type NOR I accept a controlling person, and I am very direct, no BS, you want me in your life? I am part of a team, if you want freedom and doing whatever you like, don't call me…don't use me.

 

My take is that a lot of people want SOMEBODY to make their life complete, to adjust to whims and desires, but they are not willing to make any sacrifice or work towards balancing the relationship….hence I don't have a girlfriend (lover) NOBODY can complete your life, you want somebody to share how great your life is and make it better sharing that with another person, but that is it…

 

Nice guys have it all wrong because they are trying to CONFORM to other desires, not their own.

 

Nice guys have it wrong because you can't erase yourself to make others happy

[TalesoftheWireMonkey]

I'm getting tired of this shaming of nice guys, incels, forever alone men etc. This attempt to try and paint them as sneaking seducers with entitlement issues is short-sighted and an attack on the kinder aspects of the fabric of our society.

 

What is really going on here is that all those sorts of men(and women) lack the knowledge of a set of social skills that are, now it seems necessary to secure a mate in our increasingly brutish and crude world.

 

Of course they want sex, or at least a girlfriend. Most people do or this site would be pretty quiet. They want it with the most attractive girl they can get too, like any man would. Throwing up boundaries like let's just be friends" or "I don't want to ruin our friendship" doesn't suddenly turn them into a passive eunuch! Their desires and passions don't suddenly dissolve.

 

Where is the blame on the women in this? Women are routinely reported to be more adept at picking-up non-verbal signals. If you can tell a guy that you have no attraction for has feelings for you why do you think it's alright to lure him along as a friend?

 

For the record in my youth I always made it clear I wanted something more than friends early on it was then that I got the friends speech from the girl. Most of my "nice guy" friends tell the same story.

 

Our only recourse was to go along as the platonic friend and hope foolishly that the young woman might finally see our worth or simply that we might grow on them.

 

There really wasn't much alternative. If you rejected the offer of friend and walked away you were considered more of a lout than a love-em and leave-em he-man. Plus that sort of strong tactic went against our gentler nature and our old-fashioned upbringing.

 

Now it seems if a man lacks an athletic physique and doesn't display a level of interpersonal aggression and also clings to a now(unfortunately) outdated outlook that kindness, gentleness, courtesy and respect are seductive and attractive not only is he not going to find love but he'll increasingly be seen as a potential pariah or even possibly dangerous!

[Targetlock]

I'm getting tired of this shaming of nice guys, incels, forever alone men etc. This attempt to try and paint them as sneaking seducers with entitlement issues is short-sighted and an attack on the kinder aspects of the fabric of our society.

 

What is really going on here is that all those sorts of men(and women) lack the knowledge of a set of social skills that are, now it seems necessary to secure a mate in our increasingly brutish and crude world.

 

Of course they want sex, or at least a girlfriend. Most people do or this site would be pretty quiet. They want it with the most attractive girl they can get too, like any man would. Throwing up boundaries like let's just be friends" or "I don't want to ruin our friendship" doesn't suddenly turn them into a passive eunuch! Their desires and passions don't suddenly dissolve.

 

Where is the blame on the women in this? Women are routinely reported to be more adept at picking-up non-verbal signals. If you can tell a guy that you have no attraction for has feelings for you why do you think it's alright to lure him along as a friend?

 

For the record in my youth I always made it clear I wanted something more than friends early on it was then that I got the friends speech from the girl. Most of my "nice guy" friends tell the same story.

 

Our only recourse was to go along as the platonic friend and hope foolishly that the young woman might finally see our worth or simply that we might grow on them.

 

There really wasn't much alternative. If you rejected the offer of friend and walked away you were considered more of a lout than a love-em and leave-em he-man. Plus that sort of strong tactic went against our gentler nature and our old-fashioned upbringing.

 

Now it seems if a man lacks an athletic physique and doesn't display a level of interpersonal aggression and also clings to a now(unfortunately) outdated outlook that kindness, gentleness, courtesy and respect are seductive and attractive not only is he not going to find love but he'll increasingly be seen as a potential pariah or even possibly dangerous!

 

I have to agree with this, better than a bad boy in my opinion! why is being nice such a bad thing. I will be me and only me,not try to be something I'm not and if that is using old fashioned values, good manners and being a gentleman in all my dealings then so be it, people like me for it! its who i am!

[John316C]

kindness is often perceived as weakness. indeed it is associated with it. ppl who had ****ty experiences are kinder.

 

however it takes strength to be kind. and a real man IS kind. a king is kind by nature.

[FrostBlaze]

If anybody other than some Clinical or research psychologist has done a better analysis and breakdown of the "nice guy" phenomenon than Dr. NerdLove, I have yet to see it.

 

Candypants hit the nail on the head.

 

Nice guys aren't actually nice. They're using niceness to get sexual favors and attention, and when it fails, then they blame the woman. The woman, who nine times out of ten has been completely upfront that she only sees the guy as a friend.

 

Now, there are definitely very nice guys in the friend zone, as opposed to "Nice Guys.' I have a guy friend who is absolutely awesome. If it weren't for one very changeable factor (which he is working on changing) I would go for him a millisecond. But that factor is right now a factor, and we're both clear on that.

 

But back at the start of our friendship he made it clear that he will be fine, even if for the rest of our lives, we're just friends and nothing more. That friendship is something good and desirable and that if the truth be told, he'd like more with me, but friendship to him isn't the "consolation prize" or the thing he uses to get me later down the road. It is a genuine joy in and of itself.

 

That is a genuine nice guy in the friend zone.

 

Nice Guys on the other hand, are the liars. They go into the friendship under completely false pretenses expecting that eventually his niceness will cause her to fall into his arms.

 

It doesn't work like that.

 

And when it doesn't, then he gets upset at the cold bitch who won't fall into his arms, (in most cases) rather than admit that she was upfront with him from the get go and that he was the one acting in bad faith, she loses the friend and confidante she thought she could trust in, and a strange angry dude takes his place, and yet, in his perspective, she is somehow at fault for this.

 

You are delusional if you believe he doesn't want more.

Then comes in the second part i bolded.

 

I'd ask you this, what recent girlfriends has he had?

 

Also it's good to question everything, but it sucks when you always assume the negative traits and think that everyone is a manipulative evil little being.

Stop the hate on "nice guys" wich is a very generalized term anyway, to many types of people are PUT in that category. "Nice guys just want to get in my pants" who doesn't? they are human after all.

[Keenly]

The amount of hyperbole in this thread catches me off guard.

 

Why is it impossible to be a genuinely nice person without some kind of hidden motive, or underlying passive aggressive tendencies?

[Revolver]

Women get lied to, played, cheated on, used, pumped and dumped far too many times to have this magical ability to see through "nice guys" or dudes in general and know their intentions. Here's what it comes down to

 

 

1.)Nice guys tend to be ugly,lame,boring,have no swagger, and socially retarded.

2.)Bad boys tend to be hot,charismatic, socially dominant, and Exiting

 

It's really not much deeper than that.

[irc333]

Believe it or not, I have come across women that DO appreciate the respect they've been treated by the "nice" men that's asked them out, and even have breathed a SIGH of relief after finally LANDED one and even married one....as their history proved to have dated *******s most of their lives and couldn't wrap their mind around "Why can't I meet a nice, normal guy?"

 

WHEN they finally do, it's great.

 

 

A lot of Forever Alone guys grew up thinking that the best way to earn a woman's heart was to be "nice" to her, eg doing favors for her, being emotionally supportive, etc. We grow up bitter about how overlooked we are and are puzzled by the hostile reactions we get when we complain about how women fail to appreciate our niceness. Clearly most people, even most men it seems, don't think as highly of the virtue of "niceness" as we Forever Alone types do.

 

My theory is that FAs put to much emphasis on the ideal of being "nice" because of projection. Most FAs were bullied and ostracized growing up so we learned to really appreciate the rare occasions when others were "nice" to us. We then wrongly imagine that everyone else appreciates niceness the same way and use it as a major tool in our social interactions.

 

However, other people who didn't face rejection and abuse don't emphasize "niceness" the same way because other people being nice to them was a mundane reality rather than a welcome bit of respite from a hostile world. That's why they dismiss nice guys as feeling entitled for meeting the bare minimum standards of decency while Nice Guys think they're really something special just for being nice- in a Forever Alone guy's experience being a nice person really is exceptional.

[AnyaNova]

You are delusional if you believe he doesn't want more.

Then comes in the second part i bolded.

 

I'd ask you this, what recent girlfriends has he had?

 

Also it's good to question everything, but it sucks when you always assume the negative traits and think that everyone is a manipulative evil little being.

Stop the hate on "nice guys" wich is a very generalized term anyway, to many types of people are PUT in that category. "Nice guys just want to get in my pants" who doesn't? they are human after all.

 

Did you actually read what I wrote?

 

First of all, I know that he'd like more, because he clearly stated that near the beginning of our friendship.

 

However, he also makes it clear, day in and day out, and by his own statements, that he is not using his friendship or the nice things he did for me to get a relationship and/or sex with me. He had and clearly has no expectations in that regard. And he is not, and I know him well enough to say that he never will be angry at me if I can't ever be attracted to him in that manner.

 

He truly is a good man.

 

I am not hating on men who are nice. Men who are good. I'm not even hating on the "Nice Guys." I think, though they aren't consciously aware of what they are doing, they mean well. I think many would be fundamentally horrified to realize the thought processes that are actually running their actions.

 

I am sure that there is another good man at my church who if I could get past my own shyness, might like a shot. But again, I can't see him ever in a million years being angry with me or acting aggrieved that he'd taken the trouble to be nice to me if I never could be with him in that way.

 

When we say Nice Guys in this thread, we are not speaking of the many good and nice men out there. We are speaking of the particular few who use niceness as a tool for the sole purpose of winning relationships/sex.

[MissBee]

A lot of Forever Alone guys grew up thinking that the best way to earn a woman's heart was to be "nice" to her, eg doing favors for her, being emotionally supportive, etc. We grow up bitter about how overlooked we are and are puzzled by the hostile reactions we get when we complain about how women fail to appreciate our niceness. Clearly most people, even most men it seems, don't think as highly of the virtue of "niceness" as we Forever Alone types do.

 

My theory is that FAs put to much emphasis on the ideal of being "nice" because of projection. Most FAs were bullied and ostracized growing up so we learned to really appreciate the rare occasions when others were "nice" to us. We then wrongly imagine that everyone else appreciates niceness the same way and use it as a major tool in our social interactions.

 

However, other people who didn't face rejection and abuse don't emphasize "niceness" the same way because other people being nice to them was a mundane reality rather than a welcome bit of respite from a hostile world. That's why they dismiss nice guys as feeling entitled for meeting the bare minimum standards of decency while Nice Guys think they're really something special just for being nice- in a Forever Alone guy's experience being a nice person really is exceptional.

 

This all sounds very dysfunctional.

 

Niceness is generic and is not a virtue.

 

And if "Forever Alone" men are lonely, projecting, were abused and bullied so use niceness as a tool, they are way off base and need to work on self and get some therapy perhaps in order to foster genuine interactions not based on projection and a false virtue called being "nice."

[hotpotato]

In short because many nice guys are fake.

 

Many areclassive aggressive and trying to have a transactional relationship. When things dont go their way, it becomes "Screw that stupid b****!"

 

I can relate. Because of my upbringing, I had to learn to be a certain way to survive. Being honest and saying how I really felt were no-nos.

[MoreCoffee]

I've always treated gals like I wanted my sisters treated.

 

I'm the best first, second and third date around.

[you_can_not_see_me]

It natural and ok to be disappointed when attraction isn't mutual, but of course a girl does not owe it to a guy to have sex with him just cause they the guy has been "nice" to her.

 

I think its totally within a guy's right to be upset in such a situation, just don't blame the girl, unless she went out of her way to lead you on.

 

after the guy finds out that the girl isn't into him in that way, he then has to decide whether he wants to remain friends with the girl or if he wants to stop seeing her. I think in pretty much any situation like this its better to stop seeing the girl for a while until the guy stops having strong feelings for the girl.

[somedude81]

There is an excellent rebuttal to the 'nice guys are actually evil' theory here

 

Skip past the first 2 mins to avoid the intro.

 

Great video.

 

She really knows what she's talking about.

[somedude81]

As for the whole nice guy thing.

 

What is wrong with a guy trying to be extra nice to a girl hoping that she will start to like him?

[hotpotato]

Aside from the fact that it almost never works? Nothing.

 

Not to mention desperate...

[somedude81]

Aside from the fact that it almost never works? Nothing.

Pretty much my thoughts. Nothing wrong with it, other than he's mostly wasting his time.

Not to mention desperate...

 

Why is it being desperate when a guy is being extra nice to a girl?

 

If a girl liked me and was trying to win me over by doing nice things for me, I wouldn't think she was desperate.

[hotpotato]

You are delusional if you believe he doesn't want more.

Then comes in the second part i bolded.

 

I'd ask you this, what recent girlfriends has he had?

 

Also it's good to question everything, but it sucks when you always assume the negative traits and think that everyone is a manipulative evil little being.

Stop the hate on "nice guys" wich is a very generalized term anyway, to many types of people are PUT in that category. "Nice guys just want to get in my pants" who doesn't? they are human after all.

 

Well...I am human but I can sit next to a man and not ever desire to get in his pants. Also, I would never choose a guy I was attracted to for a friend

 

 

Passive aggressive personalities are classic self delusional nice guys. They are not really nice. They expect some reward for 'whatever'. When they don't get their reward then their true colors emerge. So obvious by some posters...' I did this and this and this...but she still didn't...'

 

So they do what? Show their disdain for being 'nice'. Truth is, they never were nice and most women see through their paper exterior.

 

Bingo!

 

 

Believe it or not, some men sincerely enjoy treating women well, and that's why they do it. I know, because that used to be me. After being the nice guy for years as a teenager, and watching every girl I likes date people that treated them like crap, I made some changes. For the most part, a guy will have much better chances with a girl if he's a little bit of a jerk. I treat my girlfriend really well, but I'm not all that nice to other women.

But what is a jerk? Someone who doesn't let constantly do things for people who don't appreciate him? Being really nice can come across as phony (yes, even for women).

 

I was nice to her, but she didn't date me.. That's exactly the nice guy sentiment people dislike.

 

There's more to attraction than being nice.

 

 

Pretty much my thoughts. Nothing wrong with it, other than he's mostly wasting his time.

 

 

Why is it being desperate when a guy is being extra nice to a girl?

 

If a girl liked me and was trying to win me over by doing nice things for me, I wouldn't think she was desperate.

I've been there, and it's not necessarily endearing. I've already learned that being nice to a man doesn't mean he will want to date you.

Being nice is fine if it's not a transaction. Ive experienced guy who were too nice too soon, and they came across as desperate. It's hard for me to describe, but you can smell desperation.

 

In my opinion there's a spectrum between manipulative and insincere sentiments some "nice guys" might hold, like "Alright, I've been decent to you for a few minutes, spread your legs like you're supposed to!" and "I'm Dudley Doright and I constantly do good things for everyone with no expectation of reciprocation and perpetually let others take advantage of me". I find it strange that neither the critics or the "nice guys" themselves ever seem to bring up this version of the jerk-doormat dichotomy especially when the idea of jerks and doormats seem to come up frequently in these discussions.

 

I've had a guy say something to that effect to me! smh.

[hotpotato]

There is an excellent rebuttal to the 'nice guys are actually evil' theory here

 

Skip past the first 2 mins to avoid the intro.

 

If guy is so nice, why is he trying to steal someone's girlfriend? He tried to mate poach, was unsuccessful, and got butthurt. Guy is a wannabe homewrecker, but the video is trying to portray him as a victim.

 

PUHHLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEASSSSSSSSSEEEEE!

[AnyaNova]

As for the whole nice guy thing.

 

What is wrong with a guy trying to be extra nice to a girl hoping that she will start to like him?

 

Well.

 

If he can separate himself from the outcome enough to not hold hostility against her if it doesn't work, than as long as he is upfront about what he wants and not being fundamentally dishonest and manipulative, probably little.

 

However, when in many cases, they get mad at her and withdraw their "friendship" out of anger because she didn't get weak in the knees for him after the last 10 dinners he brought over, or times he let her cry on his shoulder, then it becomes a problem.

 

Because essentially, what he has done is dehumanized her into an object of his control. She is supposed to go with his campaign, and when she doesn't, then all of a sudden she is the terrible bitch for not being controlled by him and his own hopes.

 

If he can separate from outcomes, recognize that friendship is a worthy thing in and of itself (for instance, my friend), and not let any disappointments on his end mess with the friendship, than that is fine. But then he is a genuinely good guy and not the Nice Guy stereotype.

[Imported]

Pretty much my thoughts. Nothing wrong with it, other than he's mostly wasting his time.

 

 

Why is it being desperate when a guy is being extra nice to a girl?

 

If a girl liked me and was trying to win me over by doing nice things for me, I wouldn't think she was desperate.

 

 

What if a girl was trying to be really nice to you so that you'd do her favours like, pay her rent/bills, fix her car, lend her money...stuff like that?

[fortyninethousand322]

I don't know. It's hard to put a finger on what exactly a "jerk" is. A former friend of mine tried to hook up with my underage sister once despite her repeated rejections. I'd say that's jerky behavior. That guy has never had a problem getting dates though, oddly enough.

 

If you're the kind of person who would make fun of people or run a red light on purpose out of impatience and not feel bad about it, you're most likely a jerk. Also, if you curl on the squat rack.

 

If you're a genuinely nice person who happens to be extra nice to someone you're dating or hope to date, I see nothing wrong with that. Most guys would pay for their date's dinner or pick them up for a date, dress up nice (matching the occasion), stuff like that. Most guys wouldn't do those things for their friends.

[somedude81]

Well.

 

If he can separate himself from the outcome enough to not hold hostility against her if it doesn't work, than as long as he is upfront about what he wants and not being fundamentally dishonest and manipulative, probably little.

 

However, when in many cases, they get mad at her and withdraw their "friendship" out of anger because she didn't get weak in the knees for him after the last 10 dinners he brought over, or times he let her cry on his shoulder, then it becomes a problem.

 

Because essentially, what he has done is dehumanized her into an object of his control. She is supposed to go with his campaign, and when she doesn't, then all of a sudden she is the terrible bitch for not being controlled by him and his own hopes.

 

If he can separate from outcomes, recognize that friendship is a worthy thing in and of itself (for instance, my friend), and not let any disappointments on his end mess with the friendship, than that is fine. But then he is a genuinely good guy and not the Nice Guy stereotype.

If the guy had no desire to be her friend then why is it a bad thing that he gives up pulls away his affection?

 

It sounds like you're trying to dehumanize the guy. Why is he supposed to keep being her friend and have no desires of his own?

 

The only bad thing about is if if the guy blows up, and guys are not the only ones who would do that if they don't get their way.

[somedude81]

What if a girl was trying to be really nice to you so that you'd do her favours like, pay her rent/bills, fix her car, lend her money...stuff like that?

 

Is the girl being "nice to me" by having sex with me?

 

If not, then no way in hell would I do those favors for her.

[somedude81]

If guy is so nice, why is he trying to steal someone's girlfriend? He tried to mate poach, was unsuccessful, and got butthurt. Guy is a wannabe homewrecker, but the video is trying to portray him as a victim.

 

PUHHLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEASSSSSSSSSEEEEE!

 

So it was OK for the woman in the story to try and take advantage of him?

 

Do you also believe that her "He's my bitch comment" was appropriate?"