Abusive? or did it just not work out.

[planning4later]

It does not sound like abuse to me. But it could develop into abuse if you guys don't set firm boundaries or if one of you just don't respect boundaries.

 

By the way, I don't think she stormed off the restaurant for no reason. It's just that you don't know the reason.

 

Says a female. You probably have been brainwashed by television to think its acceptable for women to act this way and it's only abuse when men do it. Sorry, we are living in 21st century. You've gotten equality. The chicken has come home to roost.

[benpom]

Says a female. You probably have been brainwashed by television to think its acceptable for women to act this way and it's only abuse when men do it. Sorry, we are living in 21st century. You've gotten equality. The chicken has come home to roost.

 

I am all for equality. I don't think it makes a difference whether it's done by male or female.

 

I just think these two people sound really angry, but I am not sure being angry equals to abuse.

[planning4later]

Slapped me hard across the face on two separate occasions.

 

Benpom, did you not read this?

 

If a man did this to a woman, he'd be locked up. So you either didn't read this or you aren't truly in favor of equality as you claim.

[benpom]

Benpom, did you not read this?

 

If a man did this to a woman, he'd be locked up. So you either didn't read this or you aren't truly in favor of equality as you claim.

 

I am not saying it's right. I don't think this is what a relationship should be like.

 

I guess we just have different opinions on how to define abuse. To me, just because it's wrong does not escalate it to the level of abuse. To me, abuse involves bad intention as well as bad behavior.

 

If a guy/girl repeatedly verbally abuse a girl/guy, and one day got a slap for it. It will be called violence, but I don't think it could be called abuse.

[planning4later]

I am not saying it's right. I don't think this is what a relationship should be like.

 

I guess we just have different opinions on how to define abuse. To me, just because it's wrong does not escalate it to the level of abuse. To me, abuse involves bad intention as well as bad behavior.

 

If a guy/girl repeatedly verbally abuse a girl/guy, and one day got a slap for it. It will be called violence, but I don't think it could be called abuse.

 

So just to clarify what you're saying...

 

A MAN can slap a WOMAN in the face (in certain circumstances) and it's NOT considered abuse?

[benpom]

So just to clarify what you're saying...

 

A MAN can slap a WOMAN in the face (in certain circumstances) and it's NOT considered abuse?

 

Here is a story I read somewhere - original text quoted:

"One night they were wallpapering. They had been wallpapering the living room after work for a week. My mom got mad at my dad and threw red paint all over the wallpaper. Ruined all their work. He didn’t respond. He was stunned. Then she knocked over the table with the wallpaper and the glue. It ruined the newly varnished floors. He held her arms so she couldn’t do anything else. He held tighter and tighter. She kicked him to get loose. She left no mark. He hit her in the face."

 

Would you call this abuse?

[planning4later]

Here is a story I read somewhere - original text quoted:

"One night they were wallpapering. They had been wallpapering the living room after work for a week. My mom got mad at my dad and threw red paint all over the wallpaper. Ruined all their work. He didn’t respond. He was stunned. Then she knocked over the table with the wallpaper and the glue. It ruined the newly varnished floors. He held her arms so she couldn’t do anything else. He held tighter and tighter. She kicked him to get loose. She left no mark. He hit her in the face."

 

Would you call this abuse?

 

Reasonable self defense is not abuse. But I know in America this only applies to women. I've known men who were arrested merely from restraining a woman who was assaulting them.

 

In my own experience with my ex wife who assaulted me multiple times, I knew I was in trouble when, after me merely warning her that I would defend myself next time she attacked me, she called her daddy and her dad proceeded to warn ME not to threaten her daughter. What a joke. There I was, actually getting assaulted, and her dad makes no judgment about HER and instead focuses his judgement on ME for merely making a warning. This mindset is not the exception in America, it's the norm.

[benpom]

Reasonable self defense is not abuse. But I know in America this only applies to women. I've known men who were arrested merely from restraining a woman who was assaulting them.

 

In my own experience with my ex wife who assaulted me multiple times, I knew I was in trouble when, after me merely warning her that I would defend myself next time she attacked me, she called her daddy and her dad proceeded to warn ME not to threaten her daughter. What a joke. There I was, actually getting assaulted, and her dad makes no judgment about HER and instead focuses his judgement on ME for merely making a warning. This mindset is not the exception in America, it's the norm.

 

I think this culture has abused the word 'abuse', and many men have been become victims of this culture.

 

I have read some of your posts on this forum. I am glad you survived the legal battles. I think there might be some organizations available for defending men's rights. Something needs to be done to address this issue.

 

I also think that the society should put more effort into educating people on how to have good relationships. I believe many families could have been saved if they had better knowledge and could foresee the damage they would cause. Prevention is always better than dealing with after mass.

 

Just curious: did your ex wife ever apologize for assaulting you or making false allegations towards you?

 

Also read this story: Scott Bundgaard, Arizona Senate Leader, Slaps Girlfriend, Then Claims Political Immunity - True Crime Report

Edited October 9, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[planning4later]

Nope, 5 years have gone by and she never apologized. I was originally waiting for an apology, and probably would have reconciled at the time if she did apologize. But I never got one. Everything was my fault on her eyes still. She got arrested for her final assault on me. Instead of being regretful, she is convinced that I "wanted" her to go to jail. As if I was setting her up.

 

I didn't make it known that I was waiting for an apology. I mean I was, but I didn't make it known. The reason is because I'm aware that manipulative people can feign remorse if they feel like they have something to gain. At the time I was afraid that she would come back to the house just to counter with a false claim of her own. So I treaded carefully. But no, never an apology.

[benpom]

Nope, 5 years have gone by and she never apologized. I was originally waiting for an apology, and probably would have reconciled at the time if she did apologize. But I never got one. Everything was my fault on her eyes still. She got arrested for her final assault on me. Instead of being regretful, she is convinced that I "wanted" her to go to jail. As if I was setting her up.

 

I didn't make it known that I was waiting for an apology. I mean I was, but I didn't make it known. The reason is because I'm aware that manipulative people can feign remorse if they feel like they have something to gain. At the time I was afraid that she would come back to the house just to counter with a false claim of her own. So I treaded carefully. But no, never an apology.

 

That's too bad. I hope you your life gets better everyday.

[planning4later]

That's too bad. I hope you your life gets better everyday.

 

Thank you for the good wishes. My life is definitely getting better.

[siochana]

So I don’t intend this post to be a whinge. I just had the urge to write down some of my thoughts and am hoping that it will be cathartic. I’m going to admit something. If being over it means that I don’t feel pain about what happened pretty regularly then I am not over it. And, yes, the fact these are events that ended five years ago means that, really, that should not be the case. But it is true that the healing curve, even if it is a jagged line, does trend upwards.

 

Anyway, I was triggered the other day when I learned that she recently married. Same guy she got within a couple of months of leaving me. This kicked up a lot of emotions, none particularly good, again compounding my frustration at not being totally over this by now. But the thing that gets me most about this news is this: Why did this relationship succeed? Why did it not go into an abusive death spiral?

 

Much of the advice you get here revolves around telling people that abusers never change, that the pattern will repeat that it wasn’t you it was them etc. But it appears that they have made it and are happy. I know I shouldn’t care (that’s the trick isn’t it? stop caring one way or another) but there must be an extraordinary relief for people in my position to know that the pattern repeated, that she did it to the next guy too. Instead, it appears at least she went on to have 5 years relationship that recently culminated in a marriage. And that creates feelings that are the opposite of vindication.

 

By way of context, I have had a fortunate life since (and it’s a relative term) in many respects. But I never loved again. Not even close. Are the two linked? Maybe I don’t know. But it just might be that the fact that I haven’t and have been single most of the time is the biggest reason why I am not over it.

 

I’m writing this for me but I hope it resonates with someone and helps them. All thoughts welcome.

[Zahara]

Abusers don’t change. It is carved into their core. Just because they go off and get married it does not mean they’re thriving in a healthy and loving relationship. People like your ex don’t suddenly transform into a well balanced being and ride off into the sunset.

 

You know nothing about her husband, or their relationship. My ex was abusive and he went on to marry a woman 2 years after we ended. I sometimes wondered why it didn’t work with me and compared my life and sometimes my worth to the new woman. What about her made him a better man? Well, I bumped into my ex’s father one day and he told me that the wife was a tyrant and was far more dominant than my ex. They fought all the time but appeared to be the perfect couple on social media. A few years after he married, I met someone. I wouldn’t change a thing. Those years being of being alone and focusing on my healing created a healthier pathway for me.

 

Do not idealize what you do not know and use that as your measuring stick. What you do know is that you endured abuse at her hands. So count your blessings that you were able to free yourself from it. You know nothing about what goes on behind those closed doors. These two may be alike. He may be just as abusive as her or he may be submissive. Unless you’re a fly on the wall, you don’t have a clue other than the fact that you seem to believe that just because two people are married, it means they’re happily flourishing. It’s not always the case.

 

Focus on your own journey. Abuse can leave deep scars that can take significant amount of time to get over. Keep healing and moving forward.

[siochana]

Abusers don’t change. It is carved into their core. Just because they go off and get married it does not mean they’re thriving in a healthy and loving relationship. People like your ex don’t suddenly transform into a well balanced being and ride off into the sunset.

 

You know nothing about her husband, or their relationship. My ex was abusive and he went on to marry a woman 2 years after we ended. I sometimes wondered why it didn’t work with me and compared my life and sometimes my worth to the new woman. What about her made him a better man? Well, I bumped into my ex’s father one day and he told me that the wife was a tyrant and was far more dominant than my ex. They fought all the time but appeared to be the perfect couple on social media. A few years after he married, I met someone. I wouldn’t change a thing. Those years being of being alone and focusing on my healing created a healthier pathway for me.

 

Do not idealize what you do not know and use that as your measuring stick. What you do know is that you endured abuse at her hands. So count your blessings that you were able to free yourself from it. You know nothing about what goes on behind those closed doors. These two may be alike. He may be just as abusive as her or he may be submissive. Unless you’re a fly on the wall, you don’t have a clue other than the fact that you seem to believe that just because two people are married, it means they’re happily flourishing. It’s not always the case.

 

Focus on your own journey. Abuse can leave deep scars that can take significant amount of time to get over. Keep healing and moving forward.

 

 

Thank you for your reply and the support.

 

And of course you are right.

 

Learning that she had married kicked up a lot of emotions and brought me back to a line of thinking that plagued me a few years ago and, of course, it was a particular ‘what if?’. I’m going to write about it now for my benefit, in the hope that it might resonate with and help someone else and, of course, to invite comment.

 

About a year into the relationship we were having afternoon drinks in a neighbourhood bar. My ex signalled that she wanted to go (to be fair, we did have somewhere else we needed to be) and I think I agreed. Just then a friend arrived and I signalled that I wanted to stay for one more drink. I am not sure what happened next exactly, but she probably though I was dismissing her concerns, and maybe I was, and attempted to throw a drink over me. The glass dropped from her hand and smashed on the floor. I immediately walked out of the bar.

 

When I returned to our apartment about an hour later, she was arriving home at the same time. She was crying and sobbing. I feared that there was going to be an argument so I asked her to go upstairs and go to bed and I would be back later. When I came home two hours later she had thrown all of my stuff off our second floor balcony in black bags, mainly clothes and toiletries. I assessed the scene and began the process of picking everything up and bringing them back to the apartment where she was asleep in bed. It took me about 20 minutes. It was a hot, summers night. When I was finished, I went straight to the spare room and to bed.

 

The next morning is where the ‘what if?” comes in. When I came out of the room in the morning she met me in the hallway and hugged me. My impulse was to hug her back. We spoke about it but there was a shared, if not altogether explicit, agreement that we both had blame. Casting my mind back, such was my love for her that I accepted this and also did not want to make a thing about the clothes because I assumed she already knew that this was a terrible thing to do. At that point, I did not understand that it was, arguably, text book abuse. Up to that point, I don’t think she had done anything as bad as that that I recall.

 

Anyway, of course, the what if is this: what if I had been very clear at the point that what she had done was extremely wrong and that I would not put up with anything like it ever again? Would it have made a difference. Instead, I never properly addressed it and would instead get angry about small things when it was those big things ( that and other incidents) that were really the issue. She thought she was just dealing with an angry person and perhaps didn’t realise that those other issues were the real problem and remained unresolved.

 

In short, I never told her she was abusing me (or made much of the major incidents) and I am convinced to this day that she had no idea she was abusing me or at the very least thought it was two way traffic. Would it have made a difference if I had been firmer with her? Is that what her now husband succeeded in doing? That is the question that is doing the rounds in my mind. For a long time, I wanted those moments back. A do over. An opportunity to arrest that bad and focus on all that was good about her and us.

 

Finally, perhaps stupidly, but I really envy you the conversation you had with your former father in law. One of the worst things for me was that she disappeared, never to be seen again, and I have never had any contact with her or any of her friends of family ( barring a few texts with her mother which is another story) and they have never contacted me. So I have precisely no knowledge of what happened next. I suspect strongly, however, that in their minds I was firmly the villain. And by the way, she left me and the fact that later I began to understand the abusive dynamic in the relationship did little to mitigate against the deep heartbreak I felt and still feel to some degree.

 

I note too that you also met someone else. I have dated but never replaced the love however warped that my former relationship contained. And there was love; I believe that. Maybe my journey will only be complete when I do. And maybe, the emotions I feel about her being married now are merely a sense of injustice about how quickly she moved on (she has been with this guy five years) and where she is at now relative to the journey, I have had.

 

I will keep healing and I will keep moving forward and I hope for full healing ( or as close as) comes soon.

 

Thanks again.

[Zahara]

You seem to think that you may have had opportunities to correct her behavior and in turn maybe your relationship would have worked out. You need to understand that her behavior is ingrained. People that physically and emotionally abuse another usually do not even believe they’re doing anything wrong. Yes, they might feel some “remorse” but it is very fleeting. There isn’t much self-awareness for them to understand that their behavior is toxic and that it requires change. Correction has to come from therapy and that takes commitment, effort and much time. And even then there’s no guarantee that she would have been able to sustain her self-development or manage her histrionics.

 

I grew up with abusive people on both sides of my parents. Physical, emotional and mental abuse. As an adult I had a pattern of getting into emotionally abusive relationships. It seemed normal because that was all I knew. My only consolation is that I was firm about a man putting their hands on me. I had to turn that mindset around. I would not settle nor bargain myself into believing that an abusive person/relationship, at any level was acceptable. And l had to let go of the belief that I could change someone, or if I did XYZ, they’d be better or we’d work. That kind of mindset was indicative of how unhealthy I was. I was trying to change others when I had to change myself. I was flawed. No, when red flags fly, you walk. While my past exs were going into other relationships, I was grateful for those solo years as I was able to set better boundaries for myself through healing and learning. I had to focus on my own journey.

 

I don’t think this is about this woman anymore. Maybe you’re right in that you feel cheated that she’s moved on and you’re still stuck. I think you need to focus internally and figure out why you’re still struggling with detaching from this toxic situation and your inability to embrace the realization and relief of the bullet you dodged. If anything you should feel blessed and if you haven’t found love, it’s only because it isn’t your time. Rightly so because you’re still attached to your past. If you’re still affected and questioning the potential you could have had with someone who treated you poorly, then it’s evident why you can’t open doors to anyone else. You need to find the silver lining. The question is, why haven’t you? Pondering on what if’s is futile. I suggest you go back and read this thread again and try to reinforce why this was an unhealthy situation for you. Maybe revisit therapy as your ex may just be a symptom to a deeper issue that needs exploring.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Zahara

[siochana]

You seem to think that you may have had opportunities to correct her behavior and in turn maybe your relationship would have worked out. You need to understand that her behavior is ingrained. People that physically and emotionally abuse another usually do not even believe they’re doing anything wrong. Yes, they might feel some “remorse” but it is very fleeting. There isn’t much self-awareness for them to understand that their behavior is toxic and that it requires change. Correction has to come from therapy and that takes commitment, effort and much time. And even then there’s no guarantee that she would have been able to sustain her self-development or manage her histrionics.

 

I grew up with abusive people on both sides of my parents. Physical, emotional and mental abuse. As an adult I had a pattern of getting into emotionally abusive relationships. It seemed normal because that was all I knew. My only consolation is that I was firm about a man putting their hands on me. I had to turn that mindset around. I would not settle nor bargain myself into believing that an abusive person/relationship, at any level was acceptable. And l had to let go of the belief that I could change someone, or if I did XYZ, they’d be better or we’d work. That kind of mindset was indicative of how unhealthy I was. I was trying to change others when I had to change myself. I was flawed. No, when red flags fly, you walk. While my past exs were going into other relationships, I was grateful for those solo years as I was able to set better boundaries for myself through healing and learning. I had to focus on my own journey.

 

I don’t think this is about this woman anymore. Maybe you’re right in that you feel cheated that she’s moved on and you’re still stuck. I think you need to focus internally and figure out why you’re still struggling with detaching from this toxic situation and your inability to embrace the realization and relief of the bullet you dodged. If anything you should feel blessed and if you haven’t found love, it’s only because it isn’t your time. Rightly so because you’re still attached to your past. If you’re still affected and questioning the potential you could have had with someone who treated you poorly, then it’s evident why you can’t open doors to anyone else. You need to find the silver lining. The question is, why haven’t you? Pondering on what if’s is futile. I suggest you go back and read this thread again and try to reinforce why this was an unhealthy situation for you. Maybe revisit therapy as your ex may just be a symptom to a deeper issue that needs exploring.

 

Look, you have written beautifully about the whole bit there and there is likely not much to add.

 

If I am stuck, I am far less stuck than I was 4 years ago. As for finding love, there certainly was a couple of years were my preoccupation with the past was holding me back. I realise that now.

 

These days it’s a bit more straight forward. I am nearly 40 now and still want to have children so have been focussing on finding women that are a bit younger and do not have kids already. Simple truth is that the field is a little thinner in that regard then when I was 30 and, of course, it’s harder because I’ve added a decade.

 

But the sense of being left behind and cheated of a future I wanted has waned considerably over the last couple of years.

 

Sorry if that comes across as a whinge, just trying to arrange some thoughts.

 

And, yes, maybe there is nothing I could have done. Maybe she couldn’t change then and hasn’t changed since. I will just have to accept that I will likely never know for sure.

[BeRespectful]

Just a quick one that I would love feedback on.

• Following an argument, threw my clothes out the window of our first floor apartment.
   
   
  
• Slapped me hard across the face on two separate occasions.
   
   
  
• Ripped up a book I had got as a present and threw all over the garden
   
   
  
• Got drunk and told friends of mine I was beating her up (I wasn’t)
  

 

 

She's incredibly abusive.

 

The worst thing on the list is lying and saying that you beat her. There's nothing more disgusting than people who go on smear campaigns and claim false rape or violence accusations. False accusations are extremely serious and can ruin peoples lives, and when it's your word against theirs it's hard to prove. It's really evil.

 

I'm so sorry you had to endure this. Know that you can rest with a clear conscience of trying to be a good boyfriend. She can't do the same, deep down she knows who she is.

[siochana]

She's incredibly abusive.

 

The worst thing on the list is lying and saying that you beat her. There's nothing more disgusting than people who go on smear campaigns and claim false rape or violence accusations. False accusations are extremely serious and can ruin peoples lives, and when it's your word against theirs it's hard to prove. It's really evil.

 

I'm so sorry you had to endure this. Know that you can rest with a clear conscience of trying to be a good boyfriend. She can't do the same, deep down she knows who she is.

 

Thanks and you’re right. It was a searing betrayal.

 

I don’t think she knows deep down at all though. Rather, in order to feel good about herself, she has settled on a narrative that pits me as her tormentor and her as the victim.

 

Just like when we were together.

 

What can you do.