I think this time it really is over.

[Realist3]

Yep, my situation was complicated too. We want to think that our situations are so unique and special and the truth is -- they really aren't. They are all the same in some ways. I thought we could scale it back, just "be friends" (continue the EA), that we'd find a way to always be in each others lives. But none of that worked and none of it was enough, so back to the A it was.

 

You're absolutely right -- the door is still there, even with NC. But the door will be much harder (if not impossible) to open after a D Day. I understand that every situation is unique but there really is only one way to end it and unfortunately, I think you are in denial about that. I don't mean that harshly because I was in denial too.

 

How do you envision this going? You'll meet again, have that same conversation about how you love each other but can't be together and how devastating that is, and then what? You go your separate ways? Do you still talk? Do you still see each other? These situations never work because someone always ends up wanting more.

 

I know you have to do what you think is best for your situation so I'll bow out from giving my perspective now. I hope it all works out for you.

 

 

I really can't say how I envision this going. 5 days ago I had envisioned it going on like it has for the past several years.

 

We will certainly see each other, but not necessarily in private, so I doubt any conversation will be taking place outside of normal pleasantries as anyone would in a public setting. For the next year, because of our kids ages schools, and sports activities will be seeing each other quite frequently. There really is no getting around that. How that manifests itself, I can't say. People know at the very minimum that we are friends. We have many many many mutual friends that are all at the same functions, regularly. For us to suddenly stop talking to each other would seem very odd. All of the sudden I'm not part of the group that is always together just because of her? I can't just remove myself from that situation. Just as we acted like nothing was going on before, it has to be the same going forward.

 

 

I know you have to do what you think is best for your situation

Look, I do appreciate all of the comments. I will be working through this is a manner that might not fit the 'prescription'. While I still am not going through any withdrawal yet, I know at some point I will. Just as our A was a journey, this new page will be a journey as well. I can't dictate how it will go. I made a decision which I think is best for both of us in our goal of keeping our family units together.

 

This has been going on for 1642 days. I am now into day 5 of the end.

[Realist3]

And I think this is what's referred to as the 'A fog' .

 

I wish you the best of luck and peace . You're hurting tremendously because you were so sure this was going to go on for ever the way you wanted it and now you think you blew it . Truth is , it was going to come out one way or the other .

 

If you see her again , you'll see how the emotions will come flooding back and you'll be back at square one .

 

Again, good luck . I'm bowing out too, respectfully .

Best .

 

I recognize some truth in this. Even though the 'fog' of the fantasy of the A had worn off long ago(year two), there was a different fog that I only really appreciated/understood over the last several days. I don't know if I can explain it with any meaning specifically, but you are still living in another world that you as AP's have built. I don't know if that makes any sense.

[LearningToMoveOn]

For us to suddenly stop talking to each other would seem very odd. All of the sudden I'm not part of the group that is always together just because of her? I can't just remove myself from that situation. Just as we acted like nothing was going on before, it has to be the same going forward.

 

I completely understand. We have a lot of mutual friends and coworkers who think we are "best friends" and know how close we were. I get asked about him a lot or get told about what he's doing or a conversation they had and it is very, very difficult, even six months later. I have to say we haven't talked which just gets met with looks of confusion and then I spend the next week feeling like someone punched me in the stomach. My only saving grace is that I don't have to see him. I think that will be incredibly hard for you to keep up appearances and I feel for you.

 

I made a decision which I think is best for both of us in our goal of keeping our family units together. This has been going on for 1642 days. I am now into day 5 of the end.

 

I completely get this too. It's taken me 6 months to get where I am in the healing process and I'm certain that I have many years of this ahead of me. This is the most difficult thing I've ever gone through but I got myself into this mess so now I need to fight my way back out of it. I can't even commend myself for ending it on my own -- I would probably have gone round and round forever if I had a choice, and that would have been a different kind of misery. I really do wish the best for you.

Edited July 15, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Realist3]

This is true, but an A isn't "any other close relationship". There's already some irrational and uncaring stuff going on here, from various angles. Why is the end of it the part that is applied a different standard?

 

Sure it is. A relationship is a relationship. Some relationships are under different constraints. For instance long distance relationships. There is a whole sub forum dedicated to this subject where two people have a relationship where they face obvious constraints. Theirs happens to be distance. An A happens to be against societal norms and expectations along with personal desires and family issues. It doesn't change the nature of a fundamental relationship. It's taboo.

[Sub]

Sure it is. A relationship is a relationship. Some relationships are under different constraints. For instance long distance relationships. There is a whole sub forum dedicated to this subject where two people have a relationship where they face obvious constraints. Theirs happens to be distance. An A happens to be against societal norms and expectations along with personal desires and family issues. It doesn't change the nature of a fundamental relationship. It's taboo.

 

Looking at it in a vacuum, yes. It's a relationship like any other, between two people who care for each other. But in reality, what makes an A unique - the potential consequences for those outside of the A, as well as those involved...the "covert" methods that sustain it - sets up a different set of standards when it comes to "the end" IMO. I would assume it's a very different way of grieving and calls for a different plan for moving on.

[Realist3]

Looking at it in a vacuum, yes. It's a relationship like any other, between two people who care for each other. But in reality, what makes an A unique - the potential consequences for those outside of the A, as well as those involved...the "covert" methods that sustain it - sets up a different set of standards when it comes to "the end" IMO. I would assume it's a very different way of grieving and calls for a different plan for moving on.

 

You certainly hit on something there. Neither of us can lean on a shoulder of a friend and express why we are upset. You have to suffer silently. As I said in the first post on this thread, it was a cathartic action for me. It is a place where I can vent, where I can't anywhere else, or to anyone else.

[Owl]

Too often, as outside observers, to any particular situation that may arise on these boards we place a one size fits all explanation or attempt at a solution. Yes, we can advise someone this one size fits all solution because we read it in a book, or it worked for me, but that is an overly simplistic view.

 

My situation is very complicated, and outside of any strict cliched definition. I'm trying my best to work through and stick to the decision I made, but it is not as easy as "do this, or do that."

 

Realist...no disrespect for you my friend. Just want to point out to you that you have been here long enough to know that the bolded above is the BATTLE CRY for every OW/OM/MW/MM who has ever come to this site.

 

"But my situation is DIFFERENT!".

 

It's not. It's precisely the same as anyone else's who've been involved in an affair. The exact same steps to end it and move on are there too...and even your vehement denial that this is true is part of that normal reaction.

 

The bottom line here...nothing will change until you come to grips with that, realize that your situation is NOT unique/more complicated/special, and take the right actions to change things.

 

I wish you well.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Owl

[Realist3]

Realist...no disrespect for you my friend. Just want to point out to you that you have been here long enough to know that the bolded above is the BATTLE CRY for every OW/OM/MW/MM who has ever come to this site.

 

"But my situation is DIFFERENT!".

 

It's not. It's precisely the same as anyone else's who've been involved in an affair. The exact same steps to end it and move on are there too...and even your vehement denial that this is true is part of that normal reaction.

 

The bottom line here...nothing will change until you come to grips with that, realize that your situation is NOT unique/more complicated/special, and take the right actions to change things.

 

I wish you well.

 

 

I'm not claiming that my situation is inherently different from the numerous situations that are encountered here. There are many different flavors. Sure, the underlying issues can be very similar, but how they manifest themselves is not necessarily so cut and dried as a band aid approach. Many BS's here take an absolutist approach/ black and white. The basics of that mindset probably rings true in a majority of the cases, but not in all. Trust me, as a former trial attorney I am guilty of it myself. It is human nature. Once you hear the same thing repeated over and over again it is very easy to apply that standard to who next walks through your door.

 

On this board we read everything from ONS, to one month, three month, six month, 1 year, to multiple year affairs. Each of those situations is different. They all have differing parameters in terms of the participants motives. While they all may share a common basis, it doesn't make them all the same.

[whichwayisup]

While they all may share a common basis, it doesn't make them all the same.

 

Though the outcome usually is the same, even if the story changes here and there and the characters are different. The script is very similar..

 

Anyway, think I said this before, if you want it over and you're done, then let go and grieve the loss with no hopes/wishes or expectations that once the dust settles and she comes to you with tears and emotions, begs you to come back, you can be strong enough and want to really walk away for good this time. Otherwise things will eventually start up again and the cycle repeats itself.

[Realist3]

This should be good when I get back.

[2sunny]

Though the outcome usually is the same, even if the story changes here and there and the characters are different. The script is very similar..

 

Anyway, think I said this before, if you want it over and you're done, then let go and grieve the loss with no hopes/wishes or expectations that once the dust settles and she comes to you with tears and emotions, begs you to come back, you can be strong enough and want to really walk away for good this time. Otherwise things will eventually start up again and the cycle repeats itself.

 

^^^this, yes.

 

But I think you will more likely resume when the coast is clear. And down the road her overprotective, suspicious and controlling H will find out. It's just a matter of when.

 

Pretty risky for her... Not as much for you.

[Realist3]

I think the poop is about to hit or has hit the proverbial fan. As I said earlier in this thread she can't lie worth a darn. She has been taken off the grid. There are two back channel lines of communication left. We shall see what happens.

 

My guess right now is that she didn't turn off the keylogger in her last message to me.

[Realist3]

I prefer carrier pigeons.

[cocorico]

Looking at it in a vacuum, yes. It's a relationship like any other, between two people who care for each other. But in reality, what makes an A unique - the potential consequences for those outside of the A, as well as those involved...the "covert" methods that sustain it - sets up a different set of standards when it comes to "the end" IMO. I would assume it's a very different way of grieving and calls for a different plan for moving on.

 

This is not unique to As. It is "unique" to Rs that are societally "unacceptable" or that break taboos. In highly stratified societies, this could include Rs across different castes or races; Rs across religious divides I societies where that matters; in some traditional / conservative socieities, Rs with same-sex partners; or Rs which break incest taboos, or Rs between a young person and someone much older. Often these are fractured for reasons similar to a DDay, or the imminent threat of one, leaving the lovers unable to mourn the ending openly.

[cocorico]

Realist...no disrespect for you my friend. Just want to point out to you that you have been here long enough to know that the bolded above is the BATTLE CRY for every OW/OM/MW/MM who has ever come to this site.

 

"But my situation is DIFFERENT!".

 

It's not. It's precisely the same as anyone else's who've been involved in an affair.

 

...and this is the LS Battle Cry - "all As are the same!"

 

...until the WS leaves the M, and the fAPs end up together. Then you'll be told, any time you comment on anything, that "you can't compare your A with that. your A was anomalous".

 

So there you have it. All As are the same.... Until they're not.

 

Realist, only you have the finer details of your R (and likely not even all of them). Only you can tell how far the LS groupthink applies to your situation, and where it does not. As I'm sure you know.

 

I hope your MW is safe, and I hope you stay safe. Beyond that, I hope you both use your agency - individually and together - to bring about the outcomes which matter most to you both.

[whichwayisup]

I think the poop is about to hit or has hit the proverbial fan. As I said earlier in this thread she can't lie worth a darn. She has been taken off the grid. There are two back channel lines of communication left. We shall see what happens.

 

My guess right now is that she didn't turn off the keylogger in her last message to me.

 

It is possible that she wanted to get caught?

[Sub]

This is not unique to As. It is "unique" to Rs that are societally "unacceptable" or that break taboos. In highly stratified societies, this could include Rs across different castes or races; Rs across religious divides I societies where that matters; in some traditional / conservative socieities, Rs with same-sex partners; or Rs which break incest taboos, or Rs between a young person and someone much older. Often these are fractured for reasons similar to a DDay, or the imminent threat of one, leaving the lovers unable to mourn the ending openly.

 

Here's where I take exception to this: These unique qualities are pretty much universal in A's. Otherwise, it's not an A. R's across racial or religious divides are not universally taboo, especially in more developed areas. And I would argue that as time goes by, they become less and less taboo. Same-sex marriage is a prime example of this in the states.

[goodyblue]

...and this is the LS Battle Cry - "all As are the same!"

 

...until the WS leaves the M, and the fAPs end up together. Then you'll be told, any time you comment on anything, that "you can't compare your A with that. your A was anomalous".

 

So there you have it. All As are the same.... Until they're not.

 

Realist, only you have the finer details of your R (and likely not even all of them). Only you can tell how far the LS groupthink applies to your situation, and where it does not. As I'm sure you know.

 

I hope your MW is safe, and I hope you stay safe. Beyond that, I hope you both use your agency - individually and together - to bring about the outcomes which matter most to you both.

 

 

Yes, until the FAP's end up together happily. Then nobody will hear a word about it, or ever believe it. I'm so freakin' happy I don't know what to do with myself, but the more I say it, the more I get called a liar.

 

Realist, good luck with what's happening, and I also hope that you get the outcome that you want.

 

Much peace to you.

[cocorico]

Here's where I take exception to this: These unique qualities are pretty much universal in A's. Otherwise, it's not an A. R's across racial or religious divides are not universally taboo, especially in more developed areas. And I would argue that as time goes by, they become less and less taboo. Same-sex marriage is a prime example of this in the states.

 

That's fine if you live in the states. If you live in Uganda, you can be put to death for being gay, let alone having a same sex R. "The states" is not the world, and assumptions based on what happens in "the states" applying everywhere simply don't hold. Context is everything. As are not "universally taboo" anymore than Rs across racial or religious divides, even if they are in the states. The extent to which APs report being unable to share anything about their As with others seems a peculiarity of the states and some other countries. In some other countries, people discuss their As openly with their friends and confidants, and have support systems to fall back on as a result when the A ends.

 

What is being ascribed in the post I responded to as being "unique to As" is in fact not universally unique to As - but it is unique to Rs which are taboo in the particular context that that R is occurring.

[Sub]

That's fine if you live in the states. If you live in Uganda, you can be put to death for being gay, let alone having a same sex R. "The states" is not the world, and assumptions based on what happens in "the states" applying everywhere simply don't hold.

Yeah, I know. But you're using the minority to prove an overall larger point. That's why I referenced more developed areas of the world. A vast majority of the world's population look at gay people being put to death in Uganda as the wrong, making how they treat gay people the taboo, not the other way around.

 

Context is everything. As are not "universally taboo" anymore than Rs across racial or religious divides, even if they are in the states.

I said the qualities unique to an A are more universal. All A's hinge on some level of dishonesty. All A's potentially impact another human being outside of the A without their knowledge. Those are "universal" aspects of an A. Otherwise, it's not an A. If we look on a grand scale, not all interracial or inter-religious relationships hinge on that same dishonesty, or impact others in the same way. The minority do, but those things are definitely not universally present in such relationships. It's not even the majority, IMO.

[Owl]

I'm not claiming that my situation is inherently different from the numerous situations that are encountered here. There are many different flavors. Sure, the underlying issues can be very similar, but how they manifest themselves is not necessarily so cut and dried as a band aid approach. Many BS's here take an absolutist approach/ black and white. The basics of that mindset probably rings true in a majority of the cases, but not in all. Trust me, as a former trial attorney I am guilty of it myself. It is human nature. Once you hear the same thing repeated over and over again it is very easy to apply that standard to who next walks through your door.

 

On this board we read everything from ONS, to one month, three month, six month, 1 year, to multiple year affairs. Each of those situations is different. They all have differing parameters in terms of the participants motives. While they all may share a common basis, it doesn't make them all the same.

 

Perhaps...but none of that changes the basic dynamics...nor does it change the general process through which these are typically resolved.

 

Just as each individual 'case' you saw as a trial attorney may have varied...the means you used to resolve each case followed the same process...and typically the outcomes were rarely surprising to you when you reached them.

 

The 'individual details' in each affair may vary, but rarely to the point where they truly differ to a point where the participants digress much from the "common script", nor do they often vary much in outcomes or endings. Occasionally, a long term relationship between the fAP's comes out. More commonly, the affair ends with all parties pretty hurt by what happened.

 

Your situation does vary slightly because your wife is aware and uncaring about the affair...but beyond that, I've seen little else to show me that it's much different than any other.

[William]

While cultural differences regarding infidelity, as a general subject, is quite interesting and worthy of separate discussion, indeed as might discussion of the prevailing 'climate' of infidelity on internet forums, moderation requests members stay focused on this particular member who started the thread, the specifics of their issues, and confine discussion to their circumstances, as shared. For now, no edits, deletes or sanctions. Thanks!

[Realist3]

He took away the phone, laptop, and iPad to look into them, which is fine because there is nothing on them. What isn't fine is how she let me know this bit of information. She didn't use the last two communication options.

 

If he is as smart as I believe him to be she just effed herself. I am still stunned.

 

She and her husband, my wife and I all use the same personal trainer. She knows the times i go, and so as I'm done with my session, she pulls up right next to me rolls her window down and tells me. I really cannot believe she was this stupid. There is not anything on the devices so that was never a worry. In fact, I wanted him to look at them to put this to bed. BUT, and this a HUGE BUT, the place she told me could not have been a worse place. She might as well have driven to my house, parked in my driveway and knocked on my door.

 

First, we all know he is on high alert. He would not have taken her stuff if not. Duh. Secondly, he has had a GPS on her car since before we first started seeing each other. If he was curious enough to take her devices, I'm pretty sure he is looking at the GPS. Third, and here is the kicker, her husband owns the building where the personal trainer operates his business. Last but not least this building is teaming with exterior security cameras, two right above the door of the personal trainer's space. Because of a past incident I know the system he uses, and it is all DVR'ed for 5 days before the hard drive is full and restarts writing over old data.

 

While I was certainly at fault in the original mistake, she just blew it out of the water.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Realist3

[BrokenPrincess]

Interesting. Do you think she's consciously or even subconsciously trying to get busted so she's forced to get out of her M?

 

Wasn't it last year when she suggested actually leaving your spouses & being together?

 

what's her general attitude about all of this? It doesn't sound like panicked M damage control...?

[Realist3]

We had talked about this many times. I just can't believe she did this.

 

There is a nice hotel roughly two miles from her house that we have frequented. It has an internet cafe in a portion of the lobby with about 15 laptops for free public use, and the hotel is surrounded by a high end shopping center. It also has two large parking garages, which blocks the GPS signal. Also the shopping center has the Starbucks she goes to sometimes twice a day, but at least once a day.

 

Evidently she lived up to the famous Mike Tyson quote:

Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth.

Mike Tyson