The State Of The Union for the Struggling Dudes

[Imajerk17]

Well, we already gave you plenty of advice on "how to make it work". You just choose to keep ignoring it.

 

And yes your comments were belittling to Kali, someone who went way out of her way to help you.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Imajerk17

[somedude81]

Well, we already gave you plenty of advice how to "make it work". You just choose to keep ignoring it.

 

And yes your comments were belittling to Kali, someone who went way out of her way to help you.

 

What I've received is lots and lots of noise.

 

Sure there might be something good in a thread somewhere, but if it's buried beneath a pile of junk I'm not going to remember it.

 

Why are you bringing up Kali? My post didn't reference her nor has she posted in several hours.

[Glinda.Good]

What I've received is lots and lots of noise.

 

Sure there might be something good in a thread somewhere, but if it's buried beneath a pile of junk I'm not going to remember it.

 

Your definition of "junk" and "noise" is everything that does not bolster what you are already determined to believe, right?

 

Here is one thing, and it is an absolute FACT - not an opinion.

 

If a person keeps doing the same thing over and over and expects different results …

 

you know the rest.

 

So everybody is constantly trying to show you different ways. But that's all "junk" and "noise" to you. No matter what you say, it looks a lot like you are hunkering down for another decade or so of the same old thing.

[Badsingularity]

What I've received is lots and lots of noise.

 

a pile of junk

 

Wow .....

[Anela]

What I've received is lots and lots of noise.

 

Sure there might be something good in a thread somewhere, but if it's buried beneath a pile of junk I'm not going to remember it.

 

Why are you bringing up Kali? My post didn't reference her nor has she posted in several hours.

 

She admitted she had a bad boy phase, and you said that all women like that are stupid or unhealthy. She's been more patient with you than most, and didn't deserve that.

 

I've tried to perk you up before, to help you in any way that I might be able to, from my own experience (including commiserating, so that you might not feel so alone, and also realize that women aren't these unbreakable, always lucky in love creatures that you seem to think we are). And then you turn around and insult me. Thanks a lot for that, by the way.

[William]

It appears the last page or so is filled with either a thread-jack or personalized commentary, both of which are off-topic, so let's steer this back to focusing on the 'message' in the starting post, which is a 'state of the union' for 'struggling dudes'. There are other threads to discuss or seek input on individual member's issues, in a respectful way, in more detail. Thanks!

[KathyM]

I think you make a good list about how to improve your chances with dating; specifically, getting involved in more activities that put you into contact with people, and also taking the chance of approaching people, striking up a conversation, and asking for their contact information while subdoing the fear of rejection. Many men have such a fear of rejection that they let that rule their behavior, and so they make minimal contacts with people and avoid putting themselves out there. That is a sure way to a lack of success, just as a fear of being rejected by prospective employers might prevent a person from applying for a job or asking for a promotion. I think it's also important to accept the things that cannot be changed and work on what can be changed. All this complaining about a person's height or a person's race is not going to change anything, and is self defeating. Working on what can be changed is the only thing one can do to improve their chances with women.

[PJKino]

That's all you're going to get. You're not going to find some magic method to getting women online, because there is no such thing. Instead, like you mentioned, you will get noise. Some of that noise will have some good advice, some bad. Sometimes even the good advice won't work for you.

 

I've read a lot of your posts. This is my advice to you.

 

1: You're short. Like you know, this is very bad. I even asked my girlfriend about short guys, and she didn't even want to speak her thoughts aloud, because she's a nice girl. Most women want to date a guy taller than they are, and many more won't date a guy who is shorter. This is a big obstacle for you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

Lol at "she didn't even want to speak her thoughts aloud" as if short men are pedophiles or something

 

The hate is strong for short me

[irc333]

When it comes to online dating, one pretty much is going to struggle by default. Already, esp men, are at a disadvantage. You're missing the element of all 5 sense body language, voice tones , etc.

[hasaquestion]

Average looking face.

 

Average body.

 

Average personality. Not super outgoing but not that quiet either.

 

Average intelligence.

 

Has a place and a car.

 

When I say average, I pretty much mean normal.

 

I'm just a normal guy who wants a normal girl. Someone who is cute and friendly and has a healthy weight. That's it. Everything else will sort itself out.

 

See, this is the problem. "Average" and "normal" do not mean what you think they mean.

 

 

I think in general, "struggling dudes" would be well advised to think about the "her friends" test. That is, say a girl were to be hypothetically interested in you. What do you think she would tell her friends about you?

 

"Oh my god! He has a place and a car!"

"He's so smart! He's got average intelligence!"

"He's got an average body, I can't take my hands off him!"

 

Does that sound like something you'd overhear at Panera? I didn't think so.

 

That's why its important to work on oneself if you are struggling. Not because its some kind of guarantee of romantic success. But working on yourself, if you have a hard time with women, is what gets you a seat at the table.

 

And in this day & age, the Internet makes it possible to work on yourself more effectively than ever. Khan Academy, Wikipedia and Wikibooks, basic programming, Cooking light recipe archives, accounting lessons, current fashion trends, how to dance or play guitar, famous stand-up comedians, proper form for lifts, nutritional theory... there's so much productive material just a click away.

[normal person]

Don't forget that when I interact with girls, I'm not wearing a shirt that states my age. Girls are making the decision if they can relate to me based on what happens between us. Not my age. My ex didn't even know how old I was until after our first date, and she guessed seven years too low

 

Not to be rude, but I think the reason people guess that you're 25 when prompted is (1) because they either don't expect a 32 year old to still be an undergrad, or (2) they don't want to offend you by assuming that you look like you could possibly be a 32 year old undergrad. So they play it safe.

 

See, this is the problem. "Average" and "normal" do not mean what you think they mean.

 

I think in general, "struggling dudes" would be well advised to think about the "her friends" test. That is, say a girl were to be hypothetically interested in you. What do you think she would tell her friends about you?

 

"Oh my god! He has a place and a car!"

"He's so smart! He's got average intelligence!"

"He's got an average body, I can't take my hands off him!"

 

Does that sound like something you'd overhear at Panera? I didn't think so.

 

That's why its important to work on oneself if you are struggling. Not because its some kind of guarantee of romantic success. But working on yourself, if you have a hard time with women, is what gets you a seat at the table.

 

What a great post. Might I add that as competitive as life is these days being "average" is often times a losing ticket too. In America at least, average people are frequently unsatisfied with their lives in general. They want "more" or "better" (I'm not necessarily saying that's the solution) but they blew the opportunity when they had it. They'd rather sit around and watch TV shows about other people living life than actually live life themselves.

 

Seemingly every thread I read on this forum I break down to the most basic components, and there's usually one predominant theme that I always want to shout out: don't be average. Do everything you can in life to escape that trap and get what you want. Your life is a result of the decisions you've made, how you've invested your time, your willpower, and so forth. If you're a "Struggling Dude" maybe it's time to think about breaking some habits and doing whatever it is you need to get what you want. And not just talk about it, implement it.

[serial muse]

Yes - on the topic of average /= attractive: When I did online dating a while back, I figured I should put "average" as my body type. Thought I was just being honest and that average would be what most guys would want anyway.

 

My H (who I met through that venue) later told me that a lot of guys interpret "average" to mean slightly overweight and that I should have put "slender" or "athletic". Go figure.

 

Point being, I don't think anybody really thinks "average" is appealing. It's bland and nondescript at best, and vaguely negative at worst. Nowadays we like to rail on people for thinking of themselves as "special snowflakes" or whatever, but really, people tend to want a love story. They want to feel like there's a reason they're together, like the person they're with is special - maybe not perfect, but special. That's human nature.

[carhill]

IMO, average is like Hugh Grant's character in Notting Hill. Quote:

 

"William: I live in Notting Hill. You live in Beverly Hills. Everyone in the world knows who you are, my mother has trouble remembering my name."

 

I happen to have a couple of young friends who got married last weekend and they have done a wonderful job of helping me define what is average. When I walk into a room, my friends take notice and greet me (most of the time). When they walk into a room, the room takes notice greets them. It's so fun to watch I actually smile, well, because everyone else is smiling too. I'm 'average'; they, decidedly not average. The real clincher is that they're really hard to hate, even if one had the proclivity; as down-to-earth and personable as the day is long.

 

While no person's life is without struggle, the young man in the example will simply never experience the same struggles the guide here seeks to assuage. Women of all ages love him, generally all at the same time. The struggle was deciding which one to choose for a wife. IMO, he chose well.

 

My takeaway from experiences like that throughout life was to focus in on the social interactions and styles which could benefit or improve whatever 'average' in such aspects were. I'd never be a Wilhelmina model but I could certainly learn more about poise and social image to augment my otherwise 'average' presence. Overall, it worked out OK.

[somedude81]

4: I haven't seen you mention anything exceptional about you. Sure, an average guy should be able to get together with an average girl. Those odds are pretty good, despite what many people here think. However, you don't want an average girl, you seem to be after women 10 years younger than you. It's going to take more than an average older guy to attract women 10 years his junior. Women respond to exceptional men. You can be exceptionally charming, exceptionally rich, talented, whatever. Be exceptional.

How does one become exceptional?

 

I'm not rich, charming or talented. So what can I do?

 

What actions are feasible and will have some impact?

[ThaWholigan]

How does one become exceptional?

 

I'm not rich, charming or talented. So what can I do?

What actions are feasible and will have some impact?

 

That's why you're not exceptional. You subconsciously hate yourself and look for validation in young women. A girlfriend is not just a girlfriend, it's validation that your life has meaning, it's the only thing that would make you and your life exceptional - that's as far as you're concerned anyway.

 

But without one, you're not. You're average, and you tell yourself that all the time - and that's why you're average. You don't strive to be more because you tell yourself that you can't be more. Inside yourself, you don't have the desire to become those things - you're main conscious desire is getting a GF. Everything else that you do is centered around that goal. And you seem to go back and forth on this, but it's clear to most people who read your posts - you don't really want anything else. You've been vague about your "dreams" and what you want to do as a career outside of "well, I like computers".

 

You're not rich, charming or talented. But don't you want to be? There is a talent or genius that you must have - everybody has at least one. Once you identify that, then you dedicate yourself towards developing that talent and developing other abilities to accommodate that talent even further. Then you figure out to craft your social persona. You do so by actually socializing with people and finding comfortable ways of expressing that persona. Then you figure out your career plan in a thorough and long term manner, factoring in what you're good at, what you want to be good at and how you can achieve that.

 

To illustrate:

 

I've been playing the piano since I was 3 years old. Since then, I've learned how to rap, play bass guitar, sound design, music production, audio engineering, audio engineering, mastering, video editing, writing etc etc etc. I've now come full circle, and after continuing my piano lessons, I'm now on my way to become a piano tutor soon as I hit grade 5 - it pays well! I learned how to socialize well, and speak to people far beyond what any of the doctors who saw me as a 5 year old "strongly autistic" child predicted. Factor in my other plans and interests on numerous levels and I should have all three (R.C.T) covered - and I'm nowhere near my goals yet! I'm still broke and living at home! But I have a plan, it's being executed and it's going swimmingly and soon it will change!

 

It's all in the dedication. I don't need a GF to give me that impetus, I want it for me. Do you want to be rich? Talented? Charming? You gotta put in some serious hours and smart planning to do so. On a material level, I want all those things. So I'm working to do it. You just have to (Bo-Lieve Joking) dedicate yourself to the things that will help you. I'm sure you can even get better at math if you really wanted to.

 

You remind me of all those people who heard me play a piano and then said "I'm not doing this anymore, I'll never be as good as you". BS, they could all be as good, if not better than me. It's just practice. Did you ever carry on practicing on guitar? Do that. Keep doing whatever it is you want to do, developing your goals and then you'll do it.

 

TL;DR: I didn't start off being rich, charming or talented. I was a disabled child with a mind that was just as malleable as any other child. I just learned to use it. I'm still not rich, but with dedication I became talented, and I like to think I'm a bit charming . The point is, I wasn't born like that. It took work. Work you can also do.

 

 

@MidwestUSA - there I go. Helping motherf*ckers again :lmao:. I am a sucker

Edited July 3, 2014 by ThaWholigan

[MidwestUSA]

How does one become exceptional?

 

I'm not rich, charming or talented. So what can I do?

 

What actions are feasible and will have some impact?

 

Become an awesome cook. (This was/is my personal suggestion for you; you admit you eat junk and can't/don't cook).

 

Become fashion minded (meaning, expand your garment knowledge beyond brassieres ). There is a guy on the forums here who crochets or sews, I believe? Can't think of who it is.

 

Volunteer. Make a difference in the life of one elderly person. Or help out at the local animal shelter.

 

Start picking that guitar up again (what do you have, BTW, I've always meant to ask? I have a collection).

 

How are you going to become a DIY guy when you have your own house? Is there anywhere you can practice? My husband could build a house from the ground up; it's what impressed me most about him. Take a class, anything using your hands (and power tools!)

 

Along the same lines - landscaping, horticulture, house plants.

 

Know your birds! I have little respect for someone who doesn't know the difference between a finch and a jay. Know their calls, colors, difference between sexes, mating and migration habits.

 

What are your interests? Expand them. You ride a bike - get competitive. And then there's the gym. Hit it. Know your anatomy and physiology, along with dietary requirements. When you can instruct others on proper techniques and diet, you're there.

 

Give yourself a half million in fake money, and set up a self directed IRA. Track your investments. Aim for a return greater than 'average'. My fund manager has made me 16% in the last year and a half. Set a goal, meet it, then top it.

 

It's all practice for real life.

[thefooloftheyear]

That's why you're not exceptional. You subconsciously hate yourself and look for validation in young women. A girlfriend is not just a girlfriend, it's validation that your life has meaning, it's the only thing that would make you and your life exceptional - that's as far as you're concerned anyway.

 

But without one, you're not. You're average, and you tell yourself that all the time - and that's why you're average. You don't strive to be more because you tell yourself that you can't be more. Inside yourself, you don't have the desire to become those things - you're main conscious desire is getting a GF. Everything else that you do is centered around that goal. And you seem to go back and forth on this, but it's clear to most people who read your posts - you don't really want anything else. You've been vague about your "dreams" and what you want to do as a career outside of "well, I like computers".

 

You're not rich, charming or talented. But don't you want to be? There is a talent or genius that you must have - everybody has at least one. Once you identify that, then you dedicate yourself towards developing that talent and developing other abilities to accommodate that talent even further. Then you figure out to craft your social persona. You do so by actually socializing with people and finding comfortable ways of expressing that persona. Then you figure out your career plan in a thorough and long term manner, factoring in what you're good at, what you want to be good at and how you can achieve that.

 

To illustrate:

 

I've been playing the piano since I was 3 years old. Since then, I've learned how to rap, play bass guitar, sound design, music production, audio engineering, audio engineering, mastering, video editing, writing etc etc etc. I've now come full circle, and after continuing my piano lessons, I'm now on my way to become a piano tutor soon as I hit grade 5 - it pays well! I learned how to socialize well, and speak to people far beyond what any of the doctors who saw me as a 5 year old "strongly autistic" child predicted. Factor in my other plans and interests on numerous levels and I should have all three (R.C.T) covered - and I'm nowhere near my goals yet! I'm still broke and living at home! But I have a plan, it's being executed and it's going swimmingly and soon it will change!

 

It's all in the dedication. I don't need a GF to give me that impetus, I want it for me. Do you want to be rich? Talented? Charming? You gotta put in some serious hours and smart planning to do so. On a material level, I want all those things. So I'm working to do it. You just have to (Bo-Lieve Joking) dedicate yourself to the things that will help you. I'm sure you can even get better at math if you really wanted to.

 

You remind me of all those people who heard me play a piano and then said "I'm not doing this anymore, I'll never be as good as you". BS, they could all be as good, if not better than me. It's just practice. Did you ever carry on practicing on guitar? Do that. Keep doing whatever it is you want to do, developing your goals and then you'll do it.

 

TL;DR: I didn't start off being rich, charming or talented. I was a disabled child with a mind that was just as malleable as any other child. I just learned to use it. I'm still not rich, but with dedication I became talented, and I like to think I'm a bit charming . The point is, I wasn't born like that. It took work. Work you can also do.

 

 

@MidwestUSA - there I go. Helping motherf*ckers again :lmao:. I am a sucker

 

 

Well said....

 

And Ill add this...

 

There are some VERY talented and rich people that are miserable as hell..

 

And....

 

There are people that arent and are blissfully happy...

 

.02

 

TFY

[serial muse]

Some really fantastic, practical, and truly doable suggestions by Midwest and Who.

[thefooloftheyear]

Become an awesome cook. (This was/is my personal suggestion for you; you admit you eat junk and can't/don't cook).

 

Become fashion minded (meaning, expand your garment knowledge beyond brassieres ). There is a guy on the forums here who crochets or sews, I believe? Can't think of who it is.

 

Volunteer. Make a difference in the life of one elderly person. Or help out at the local animal shelter.

 

Start picking that guitar up again (what do you have, BTW, I've always meant to ask? I have a collection).

 

How are you going to become a DIY guy when you have your own house? Is there anywhere you can practice? My husband could build a house from the ground up; it's what impressed me most about him. Take a class, anything using your hands (and power tools!)

 

Along the same lines - landscaping, horticulture, house plants.

 

Know your birds! I have little respect for someone who doesn't know the difference between a finch and a jay. Know their calls, colors, difference between sexes, mating and migration habits.

 

What are your interests? Expand them. You ride a bike - get competitive. And then there's the gym. Hit it. Know your anatomy and physiology, along with dietary requirements. When you can instruct others on proper techniques and diet, you're there.

 

Give yourself a half million in fake money, and set up a self directed IRA. Track your investments. Aim for a return greater than 'average'. My fund manager has made me 16% in the last year and a half. Set a goal, meet it, then top it.

 

It's all practice for real life.

 

I wouldnt know a White Tailed Ptarmigen from an Eggplant Parmigiana...But that never seemed to hold me back...

 

TFY

[serial muse]

I wouldnt know a White Tailed Ptarmigen from an Eggplant Parmigiana...But that never seemed to hold me back...

 

TFY

 

Haha, I'm not so much up on my birds either. But I took her list to be a bunch of different suggestions, not that anyone has to master ALL of them. I hope.

[somedude81]

Dude you went way overboard. I didn't ask for an analysis.

 

I'm trying to guide this thread in a direction where it can be helpful to other guys.

 

 

You're not rich, charming or talented. But don't you want to be? There is a talent or genius that you must have - everybody has at least one. Once you identify that, then you dedicate yourself towards developing that talent and developing other abilities to accommodate that talent even further. Then you figure out to craft your social persona. You do so by actually socializing with people and finding comfortable ways of expressing that persona. Then you figure out your career plan in a thorough and long term manner, factoring in what you're good at, what you want to be good at and how you can achieve that.

 

To illustrate:

 

I've been playing the piano since I was 3 years old. Since then, I've learned how to rap, play bass guitar, sound design, music production, audio engineering, audio engineering, mastering, video editing, writing etc etc etc. I've now come full circle, and after continuing my piano lessons, I'm now on my way to become a piano tutor soon as I hit grade 5 - it pays well! I learned how to socialize well, and speak to people far beyond what any of the doctors who saw me as a 5 year old "strongly autistic" child predicted. Factor in my other plans and interests on numerous levels and I should have all three (R.C.T) covered - and I'm nowhere near my goals yet! I'm still broke and living at home! But I have a plan, it's being executed and it's going swimmingly and soon it will change!

 

Nothing comes to mind that can be called a talent or genius that I excel at.

 

Then the next logical step is to think of things that I'm at least decent at, and enjoy doing.

 

For me, that's probably salsa dancing. Though my skills have stagnated. My school only offers beginning salsa, which I've taken 4 or 5 times. Essentially I'm a master beginner

 

I'm considering moving on to taking more intermediate and advanced lessons off campus. I've been to the dance clubs a few times but there are simply too many men so it's a lot of waiting around for my turn with a girl. I'm basically kicking myself for not going out dancing with my ex more often. We should have gone dancing every week instead of once a month.

[hasaquestion]

Know your birds! I have little respect for someone who doesn't know the difference between a finch and a jay. Know their calls, colors, difference between sexes, mating and migration habits.

 

Just when you think you've heard it all

 

Personally, for volunteering, I recommend looking into tutoring. I tutored on weekends when high school was in this past year. Its a great way to give back. Low barrier to entry as long as you don't expect to get paid. Satisfying to know you're making a legit difference in someone's life. And you're using skills you already have (match, science, history, writing, etc.) to do it.

[Anela]

 

TL;DR: I didn't start off being rich, charming or talented. I was a disabled child with a mind that was just as malleable as any other child. I just learned to use it. I'm still not rich, but with dedication I became talented, and I like to think I'm a bit charming . The point is, I wasn't born like that. It took work. Work you can also do.

 

 

@MidwestUSA - there I go. Helping motherf*ckers again :lmao:. I am a sucker

 

Well, I feel motivated now.

[MidwestUSA]

I wouldnt know a White Tailed Ptarmigen from an Eggplant Parmigiana...But that never seemed to hold me back...

 

TFY

 

They're all good, properly prepared!

 

 

Serial: no, I wasn't suggesting becoming a true expert at birds. Just the basics - know those that frequent your area, as well as those that pass thru. I love some of the hawks that I occasionally glimpse in the dead of winter, and it's a source of pride to be able to point it out to my husband (and name it). Of course I wasn't born with the knowledge; it took years of looking up the critters as I spotted them. Same with reptiles and insects.

 

 

Eagle watching is big here in the winter; a good date venue.

[ThaWholigan]

Nothing comes to mind that can be called a talent or genius that I excel at.

 

Maybe it's time to find out.