Is NC the only way out?

[christine1958]

Wow. I have to admit that reading all these posts about people going through the same thing I am was somehow comforting.

I am involved with a married man. He is a guy I've known for 40+ years. We met in high school, dated, I broke up with him. We communicated for a few years then lost touch for 30 years.

He contacted me 4 years ago and we began an emailing and occasional lunch date friendship. 18 months ago, we began a full fledged affair.

For the majority of the affair, he's talked about leaving his marriage, talked about the special nature of our relationship, how much he loved me, had always loved me and how uniquely special I was to him.

 

After many weeks of deliberation, he's decided to move out of his home and begin counseling with his wife to determine if the marriage is worth saving.

 

I suspect the counselor will strongly suggest that he have no contact with me for the foreseeable future. (he told his wife he has feelings for me but hasn't told her we had a physical relationship.)

He says he won't agree to a "no contact" restriction and that if his wife can't accept that, he will know the marriage can't be saved.

 

He's not a serial cheater and, save this affair, has been a good husband and father.

I get the feeling that he will end up staying with his wife, despite everything he's said thus far.

Has anybody gotten through a break up with a married man without going through a no contact stage?

[Popsicle]

He moved out already. The counseling probably won't work and I bet dollars to donuts they will divorce. If I were you, I'd wait it out.

[Trimmer]

He says he won't agree to a "no contact" restriction and that if his wife can't accept that, he will know the marriage can't be saved.

Lucky for you, I suppose, he's clearly not serious about the counseling. Doesn't it kinda twist logic that he's claiming that his wife's refusal to accept his further contact with his affair partner is an indication that the marriage can't be saved?

 

He won't end it himself. This is his way of making it seem like the final death blow to the marriage was her fault.

 

On the other hand, if she does back down, then he can stay safe in his marriage, still keep you on the side, and know that she is weak and that he can walk all over her.

[christine1958]

Thank you both so much for your comments.

I had thought about his refusal to accept NC as a way for him to get his wife to torpedo the counseling/reconciliation idea. But I think it's more that he really hasn't decided himself.

Tomorrow, he and the wife go for their first session. Then he and I are to spend the rest of the day together. I should have a much better indication of what's to come.

Thanks again for you input.

[ConfusedMarriedOW]

. I cannot for the life of me figure out why he is going to counseling to save this marriage, he is moving out and refusing to go no contact. Unless he is willing to do that, their marriage has no hope. Unless of course he is considering opening the marriage.

[christine1958]

Basically I believe he's taking this route of counseling, no NC and separation because he still can't decide whether to leave his marriage and he's said as much.

Even when we were kids, decisions of any import were tough for him and he was very deliberative. No choice is left to serendipity for him.

He also is very averse to confrontation and is also wants to make others happy, almost to a fault. As I told him last week, for somebody with those traits, he's certainly put himself in a jackpot now.

Since his first counseling session is tomorrow and I'll see him after, I'll see if his resolve to stick with the refusal of NC still exists. As of an email I received moments ago, he plans on sticking to his guns.

Tomorrow's time with him could end several different ways. If his no NC conditions are in place, he and I will have to have a talk about what we do going forward.

If it's not, then he will be in the position of having to end it with me.

With the pressure of whatever happens in their first counseling session fresh in his mind, he may be able to do that.

 

Sadly, the pain of this situation was predictable. I knew there was a good chance I'd end up feeling lousy.

But the worst of this, to echo many of the posts I've read on this site, is losing a dear friend.

[ConfusedMarriedOW]

I understand completely about losing a dear friend. Although I dare say in your case it may be a longer friendship than most. 40 years. How difficult this must be.

 

I commend you on seeing things as they are and reaching out for help rather than wallowing in denial.

 

I am curious what his choice will be. I can't help but think he may be really out is this marriage because most men (particularly men with his need to please, my xMM had that too) do not leave their marriages, never leave the household, and always choose NC when asked. He sounds like someone on the edge of really leaving.

[fellini]

It's amazing how so many guys can only come up with the idea of tracking down some ex GF who they didn't want rather than actually go out and find someone new.... must be they think they got somewhere before, so the work is already done. Or nostalgia... whatever. Pretty lazy to me.

 

My WS's AP was previously married. He found out his W was screwing some guy and so he convinced her to "work" on their marriage. She got to stay in the house and insisted she could continue hooking up with her single AP.

 

Of course one year later she walked, divorced, and married her AP.

(Amazing that after all that this POS would two years later go after a woman married with a kid, but that's another story).

 

If he refuses NC and uses blackmail to get it, he is in an exit affair for sure. He simply wants his BS to be the one to end it, so he can say he .... sort of... tried.

[Owl]

Yeah...if his litmus test for the marriage is whether or not he can still have contact with you...something is smurfed in the village.

 

Here's my thought.

 

He needs to make up his mind...is he going to 'keep you'...or is he going to 'keep his wife'.

 

The two paths are directly opposite each other. He can't have you both in his life. He HAS to chose one, and let the other go.

 

Trying to straddle the fence, keeping both of you....not gonna work. He won't move in any direction as long as he tries that.

 

Tell him this. Tell him point blank that this is how it's going to have to end...with one or the other exiting his life forever. Time to choose one, and to let go of the other.

 

THEN he can focus on building up wichever relationship he wants to invest in...freely and fully.

[christine1958]

Thank you so much Owl, Fellini and ConfusedMarriedOW for all your comments. Each of you have offered ideas that help.

I have wondered if all this came about because I was the one to break off our relationship and cause him considerable emotional pain when we were kids so this is some kind of long term payback. He has assured me frequently that is not the case.

So taking that at face value, I'm going to proceed with getting through tomorrow's encounter and whatever that will bring.

I may lay out the "it's her or me" scenario to him, I may decide to lay low for a little while longer to see what happens, or I may end up crying all afternoon which may do me some good. I never been much of a cryer so maybe that would help.

In any case, you have all been so very, very insightful.

Best to you all and I hope some day I can help you as much as you've helped me.

[Popsicle]

Basically I believe he's taking this route of counseling, no NC and separation because he still can't decide whether to leave his marriage and he's said as much.

Even when we were kids, decisions of any import were tough for him and he was very deliberative. No choice is left to serendipity for him.

He also is very averse to confrontation and is also wants to make others happy, almost to a fault. As I told him last week, for somebody with those traits, he's certainly put himself in a jackpot now.

Since his first counseling session is tomorrow and I'll see him after, I'll see if his resolve to stick with the refusal of NC still exists. As of an email I received moments ago, he plans on sticking to his guns.

Tomorrow's time with him could end several different ways. If his no NC conditions are in place, he and I will have to have a talk about what we do going forward.

If it's not, then he will be in the position of having to end it with me.

With the pressure of whatever happens in their first counseling session fresh in his mind, he may be able to do that.

 

Sadly, the pain of this situation was predictable. I knew there was a good chance I'd end up feeling lousy.

But the worst of this, to echo many of the posts I've read on this site, is losing a dear friend.

 

Since you have identified him as this personality type who avoids confrontation, be prepared for him to do a disappearing act without word, if he decides to go no contact with you and listen to the counselor.

[christine1958]

That was an option I hadn't considered he would take. Thanks Popsicle for mentioning it. And that would definitely be rougher to handle. No final goodbye, no teary embrace, etc., etc., etc.

Not sure how to prep for that, but then all this is foreign.

[MissBee]

I don't see why he is going to counseling with his wife if he still wants to be in contact with you and says you will be together?

 

He is either serious about working on his marriage OR being with you. It has never made any sense to me why someone would go to counseling for the purposes of working on their marriage if they are in love with the OW and are positive they want to be with her. The counseling should just be about having an amicable divorce or something not to see if they can save the marriage....and it's unfair for you to wait for the verdict like "Well...come to realize it can be saved!"

 

In any event, to work on his marriage, he can't still be having an affair with you and contacting you. This is common sense. So if he already says he refuses NC or is really saying if his wife suggests it the marriage can't be saved is a little absurd......if she doesn't agree to have him still talk to his OW the marriage is over??? That makes no sense. That can't be part of fixing a marriage. So might as well he says it's over with his wife, divorce her and move on to you because that other stuff is nonsense.

 

If he has been a good husband and father though counseling should help him figure out if he is just going through a grass is greener phase where people reconnect with old flames from 30 years ago and form this fantasy relationship where they project back into the past, largely as a way to regain their youth and imagine what could have been if they chose a different path etc...versus if it's actually that he has a bad marriage that needs to be dissolved. There are tons of articles on the increasing numbers of people esp with the advent of social media who reconnect with people from childhood then say they are in love and all this but many times it's this kind of fantasy of a time in their youth that this person reminds them of that they find an escape in. They also discuss part of it being that people find it much easier to form a fantasy bond with an old flame from years ago than to spark up something new with someone else, as they already have a foundation to say "We were so perfect back in 1970...you were my lost love" and all of that fuels the whole thing more than having to meet someone new, hence a lot more people nowadays seem to be connecting with old flames from high school for affairs. So hopefully for your sake, his sake and his family's sake he works out what it is for him....as it will be awful for you as well if he runs to divorce his wife and then when you two are alone in an open relationship he realizes it's not the once in a lifetime special love he thought it was...which some OW have experienced, then he goes back to his wife.

 

For me: NC was a saving grace. I know it seems scary but truth is: if it's meant to be it will be and NC won't stop it, all it will do is help you both to move on if it isn't meant to be. My exAP and I didn't have the same situation of him going to counseling and all this, but we had one year of NC and reconnected after some time later and had an open relationship (not right away maybe a year or two after reconnecting just as friends)...still didn't work out in the end...but NC allowed for the A and secret aspects to be dissolved and for us to start afresh with him being single and me having spent time a part dating others and getting my self together. I don't think you fear NC though so much as you actually fear him staying with his wife...and your own gut feelings and fears about that say more than we could ever tell you.

Edited July 2, 2014 by MissBee

[Trimmer]

Thank you both so much for your comments.

I had thought about his refusal to accept NC as a way for him to get his wife to torpedo the counseling/reconciliation idea. But I think it's more that he really hasn't decided himself.

To me, it's his refusal to accept NC during counseling that is the indication that the marriage may not be saved. As others have pointed out, how absurd is that idea? It's sad that he's putting it on his wife, though, as if her insistence on this condition would be the breaking point of the marriage.

 

As others have also pointed out, continued fostering of his relationship with you and working honestly on his marriage are diametrically opposed. There is no "both": either one of these must preclude the other. (Or else, he's not honestly working on it...)

 

So the idea of doing both at the same time is really just a kind of a purgatory - not doing either one cleanly - until something breaks on one side or the other (or both, as it's possible that as this all drags out painfully for all concerned, both of you women may end up deciding that this episode reveals that he's not worth it.)