"Friends So Plutonic You're Dying To Blow Them" [Open Debate/Explain Your Stupidity]

[Grinning Maniac]

This is a question I posed in someone else’s thread and it didn’t get any real response, understandably, since the thread wasn’t really about that issue, so much as trying to help someone out. Understandable. But I’m still wondering what is going through people’s heads with this, so I’m making my own thread and I really want some honest opinions. Go nuts.

 

-GM

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Mental Note: "Kevin, if you ever become interested in a woman who happens to have a bestest-best-best "guy friend", who's just the "sweeeeetest guy"...RUN. Don't question me. Don't think it over. Just put on some sneakers...and start running. You run far, far away...and conceal your escape with smoke grenades. Because you have likely entered a gigantic vortex of female delusion and double-speak from which there is NO escape…

 

Am I the only one who thinks male/female friendships don't make any real sense at all, and the only who tends to ignore all of the crap about a guy being "insecure" or "controlling" when he raises an eyebrow over a woman having a ton of close male friends? I sometimes hear little murmurs of objection here and there, but as usual, most of us hear the whip of political correctness cracking away in the background and just shut up. I'm clearly the exception, but that's beside the point. I'm on a tangent...

 

What caused me to post this was that I've realized a huge contradiction on the concept of "guy friends" and the arguments people make for it making sense. I'm making generalizations here, but guys tend to get the "OMG we're just friends" and "OMG stop trying to run my life" speeches from the ladies when we dare to suggest that their "best buddy" seems to have a little more than "friendship" on the brain. But shockingly...in real life, as well as on this very forum, you also have tons of women saying that the BEST relationships come from crossing the line...with...your best guy friends.

 

Is it just me, or does that not make a lick of f*cking sense? Your current boyfriends should not be the least bit suspicious of your best pal who loves giving you backrubs for no reason at all, yet by your own admission, close "guy friends" are the best candidates for great boyfriends (or "soulmates" or whatever you nutty broads are after THIS year)? Are you ladies still with me? Guys shouldn't be at ALL paranoid about someone who is very likely their competition, either currently and directly, or in some creepy "sleeper cell" fashion, just counting down the seconds until he professes his undying love for you or vice versa after things have been coming to a slow boil over time? I can't believe you ladies are really this stupid BY MISTAKE. There's no way. This has to be an act.

 

I know it wasn’t an intentionally humorous thread by any means, but as I kept reading a "FWB" situation, I couldn't stop laughing. I'm serious. It's like looking at the poster children for "guyfriendsaretrouble.org" or something. It's just too good. Don't tell me that none of you snickered at the fact that "Mr. T" was giving BO "relationship advice" and vice versa. I’ve seen that kind of thing a million times and it just keeps getting funnier every time. It's like Ronald McDonald and Mayor McCheese giving me advice on nutrition.

 

"Oh man...I had no idea that vegetables were really so bad for me! But when you put it that way, it all makes sense! I'm so glad you guys were here to stop me from making a bad decision. I knew I could trust you. Yes, I'll take 5 Big Macs, please!"

 

conflictofinteresthuhsaywhat?

 

This is too good. Be honest with me. Do you ladies really not see that huge elephant in the room, or is it just an unwritten rule that you have to just deny, deny, deny it's there, but slip Dumbo a peanut or two on the sly, so he'll continue to happily nap behind the couch? I'm not saying it's just women who are guilty of this. We do it too, sometimes intentionally, among the less honorable of us. I even have a couple of female friends, but I keep them far, far away. Sure, it's possible to be friends with a woman but the circumstances are pretty limited if your intentions are 100% honorable. I think there are only seven conditions under which I could maintain a close, completely healthy and non-sexual friendship with a woman:

 

1. If she was uglier than sin and/or could launch me into orbit on a see-saw.

2. If she was a very butch lesbian...(although on a really horny day, the thought's still briefly crossed my mind...)

3. If she was psychotic and self-abusive...and ugly.

4. If her body was a herpes platter with a side order of AIDS.

5. If she was a quadriplegic...and also had an unattractive mouth.

6. If my genitals were lost in an industrial accident or chemical fire. Both testicles must be gone. BOTH.

7. If I was blinder than Ray Charles in a blackout.

 

Men have "intuitions" too. We can tell when guys want to bone...because we're guys...who want to bone. We know our own moves. Maybe you don't...and maybe you do. But regardless, I just find it real strange that women, generally speaking, will give two different answers to the same question and act like it really makes sense. So, to review what’s making me want to hit you loopy broads with hammers:

 

"Yeah, I have plenty of male friends. Guys just make the BEST pals in the world! They're so much less complicated than girls, and funny, and have pretty eyes... *ahem* But you shouldn't be at all suspicious of their motives. Sure, Bruno likes fondling me a little bit and calls me twenty times a day, but that doesn't mean anything. So what if I use him as a human pillow during our late-night movie marathons, and you've heard me tell my girifriends that best friends can make great boyfriends? That doesn't mean it applies to ME as well. You're just being silly and jealous. Oops, hold on. My cell's ringing. *pause* Teehee...aww he's so sweet. But like I was saying, you have no reason to question the nature of my friendship for even a second. Doing so makes you controlling. Got it? A jeeallllousss pricccckk. You don't want people to think that about you now, dooo you? ...Stare into the watch...that's it. Good [puppet] boyfriend."

[pizzanova]

touche!

[Devildog]

Excellent GM. A work of art.

 

My theory after encountering this very subject with my VSTBXW and how she "always had more guy friends than girl friends" was it is a self-esteem issue. Women know these guys want more than friendship. And it is a huge ego boost for them. "oh, look at all the guys who want to get me into bed, I must be attractive".

[MassiveAtom]

SPOT ON!

 

nuff siad.

[alphamale]

ha! womens luvs attention,

 

women who have many many guy friends or buddies are the easiest ones to get in the sack.

 

you just treat 'em like shyt sometimes and make them run after YOU. make yourself more valuable then her.

 

in addition, most women with many male buddies also look down at these same guys as pathetic lap dogs who will follow her all over the world while she treats 'em like krap and they give her expensive gifts.

 

you don't get and keep good looking women by being nice! period!

[brashgal]

Very insightful and entertaining and hey - it swings both ways - the only gal friend my ex had that he didn't screw around with (to my knowledge) was very unattractive AND married to his best guy friend. And I'm still not totally sure they didn't get it on at some point.

 

You are an artiste GM - can't wait for the book...

[Stone]

I

 

I think oppisit sex can be friends BUT ladies who have SEVERAL male friends are ( like Alpha said) pretty easy to get in the sac.

 

I have about 4 male friends I grew up with, they are more like my brothers, or extended family but our friendships started in grade school and continued to our adult hood, they are my best buds but I would probably classify them as my family.

The thought of sleeping with them makes me sick and I am sure the feeling is mutual.

 

 

However in my adult life NOW I wouldn't be so open to a man just wanting to have a friendship with me unless he was gay.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by Stone

I think oppisit sex can be friends BUT ladies who have SEVERAL male friends are ( like Alpha said) pretty easy to get in the sac.

 

usually it is the good looking, flirty, attention-driven women who have a harem of male "friends" and ex-boyfriends. they know all these guys want them or want to get them back.

 

another excuse good looking women give for this male harem is that women are petty and back-stabbers who are jealous of them, so ergo they have few female friends and many male friends!

 

its all BS if u ask me. if i was dating some broad and i had 20 female "friends" i wonder how she would react?? probably not well at all....

[moimeme]

Depends how friendly the friends are. If the friends are 'going out for dinner in a gang' friends or 'go to events' friends, that's one thing. If the friends are constant companions or 'human pillows' or very emotionally close, that's another story entirely. I've had a bunch of guy friends but they're not like my gal friends. I like them a lot and am glad to see them, but we got together at parties and dinners and in mixed groups.

[Barby]

Aww I remember a thread awhile back where this very discussion got heated and outta control...anyone else remember that?!?!

 

 

 

NOW...................................

 

Personally I don't believe male/female relationships tend to work out because usually one or the other start to have feelings/attraction to the other. When you spend ample time with a person in which you have a lot in common with, enjoy doing similar things, who "gets" you and vice versa (like a friend should) a lot of times natural feelings begin to develop. These qualities are usually something that in fact most of us seek in a mate...and when you find it in a "friend" sometimes it's hard to keep feelings on a "friendship" level.

 

 

 

Anyway it's my personal opinion that I wouldn't want my BF (i'm single now but in the future) to have female friends, nor would I have male friends...I have aquaintances that in passing we say "hello" or have brief conversation but not in anyway are they "friends" in which I associate on a constant basis.

 

IMHO women who have a LOT of mainly male friends are insecure and need the male attention to feel better about themselves, ect. I think they tend to shy away from having female friends because they need to be the center of "male" attention, ect, ect, ect (no flames, just my opinion).

[Stone]

Most of my guy friends are married, I wouldn't mind my b/f having a female friend if she we're married and all did things as a couple.

[Barby]

Originally posted by Stone

Most of my guy friends are married, I wouldn't mind my b/f having a female friend if she we're married and all did things as a couple.

 

 

That's diff cuz well they're not hanging out "alone" or doing things alone a lot. I mean more towards single women or women who's men are never around therefor they fill the void with their male "friends"

[LucreziaBorgia]

My closest friends are male. The reason they are friends is that there is no 'sexual tension' or even question of it. These are guys who know me, my family, and are on the same level of friendship with me as my family. They've watched my kid grow up, and are as comfortable around Mr. B as they are me.

 

When I was younger, my friends were almost exclusively male. I had little or no female influence in my life, as I was raised by my father (and his weak ineffective bitch of a second wife) from the time I was five, and I had brothers. I was a tomboy, and ended up chasing the girls around the playground more than I was the boys so to speak.

 

Guys were my friends because I could relate to them. Women have always (and still do) mystify me. I can't help but to put them into a sexual context - I have a very hard time being friends with women. With men, I can function sexually with them, but I don't automatically see them sexually. I guess I just prefer the platonic company of guys over the platonic company of girls. Most girl conversation either bores me to tears or irritates me. With guys, I can speak my mind and say what I want - as crass or as blunt/brutal as it may be. The comfort level is always greater.

 

Were I closer to the 'strictly hetero' and 'raised with positive female influence' side of the spectrum it probably would be different. Its hard being "just friends" when there is that awkward suggestion of sexuality that comes naturally between people. I understand that.

[GirlDown]

Originally posted by LucreziaBorgia

My closest friends are male. The reason they are friends is that there is no 'sexual tension' or even question of it. These are guys who know me, my family, and are on the same level of friendship with me as my family. They've watched my kid grow up, and are as comfortable around Mr. B as they are me.

 

When I was younger, my friends were almost exclusively male. I had little or no female influence in my life, as I was raised by my father (and his weak ineffective bitch of a second wife) from the time I was five, and I had brothers. I was a tomboy, and ended up chasing the girls around the playground more than I was the boys so to speak.

 

Guys were my friends because I could relate to them. Women have always (and still do) mystify me. I can't help but to put them into a sexual context - I have a very hard time being friends with women. With men, I can function sexually with them, but I don't automatically see them sexually. I guess I just prefer the platonic company of guys over the platonic company of girls. Most girl conversation either bores me to tears or irritates me. With guys, I can speak my mind and say what I want - as crass or as blunt/brutal as it may be. The comfort level is always greater.

 

Were I closer to the 'strictly hetero' and 'raised with positive female influence' side of the spectrum it probably would be different. Its hard being "just friends" when there is that awkward suggestion of sexuality that comes naturally between people. I understand that.

 

i agree with LB...

 

i have always had a lot of guy friends. i do have a few girlfriends still, but for the most part the ones i stayed friends with were guys. no sexual attraction (at least not known anyway) and no problems.

 

i do have a boyfriend, i do not hang out one on one with any male friend. it would make me uncomfortable if he hung out exclusively with another female, no matter how much i trust him or love him or how much i know i can be friends with a guy without feeling the need to bone my guy friend senseless.

 

and there has been no need or want to bone any of my male friends senseless...that's why they are "friends..." i don't want to bone my girlfriends senseless, so why the guys? especially since my boyfriend thinks i am equally attracted to both--which is another whole story!

[alphamale]

Originally posted by GirlDown

i agree with LB...

 

i have always had a lot of guy friends. i do have a few girlfriends still, but for the most part the ones i stayed friends with were guys. no sexual attraction (at least not known anyway) and no problems

 

and there has been no need or want to bone any of my male friends senseless...that's why they are "friends..."

 

I will guarantee you GIRLDOWN that some of these supposed guy "friends" would love to make you bend over the back of a sofa and give it to u from behind. Trust me. Many men are very good at hiding their attraction to a female friend and can keep it secret for decades until one day everything explodes and the woman is like WTF!

 

It is a very rare exception when you have a male-female freindship and neither one of the parties is sexually attracted to the other.

 

Your comment of "at least not known anyway" is a tip off. Read it over again.

[Grinning Maniac]

@alpha:

 

So, so, so true. I cracked up when I read "not that I know of". I think some women just don't want to believe it. I suppose it would make the friendship a little awkward if you had to come to terms with the fact that your "friend" is picturing your tits bouncing around in slow-motion from time to time.

 

 

I haven't had one female friend who I haven't thought about boning at one time or another. Every single one that i can remember. If she was even *midly* attractive, I thought about banging her at least a LITTLE. It's impossible not to, except in those situations I outlined above.

[d'Arthez]

Men have "intuitions" too. We can tell when guys want to bone...because we're guys...who want to bone. We know our own moves.

As long as boning is the only thing on your mind, you can only see with that mindset. Given your still tender age, it is no wonder you are not in control of your hormones, but the hormones are in control of you Grinning Maniac. It is no wonder that you better keep your female friends far away.

 

Hypothetical situation: If you were single and unattached, and an attractive and attached female gave attention to you. Touched you et cetera, would you stop her? Even if it is only stroking your hair? Holding hands? Very few men would completely.

 

It may be true that the best relationships come from close friendships. But that does not mean that all friendships are to be turned into a relationship. Unless you'd advocate a polyamorous society. If I recall correctly, you don't.Some people are great as friends, but terrible relationship material. Both men and women know that. Even when people choose to enter a relationship based on a friendship, the chances are pretty high it does not work out. For most people it takes a lot of learning and suffering before they meet the Mr(s). Right.

 

Some friends meet a particular subset of needs. A relationship partner cannot be 100% perfect for you. Not in this superspecialized and differentiated society. Both men and women need to acknowledge that and allow for their partner to have a life outside their job and their relationship.

 

Also think of gender-biased activities. If a man is a nurse, or a woman plays chess, the chances they will have a lot of cross-gender interactions are 100%. Possibilities of friendships developing are enormous. Nothing wrong with that. Just because a person does not live up to societal gender expectations, does not mean he or she is a loose person, or is fantasizing about sex in that particular enviroment, with whomever is there.

 

If you are married, or in an exclusive relationship there is an element of trust to deal with. But if you are too insecure or need to check continiously if nothing is going on, it might be the case that you are with a person with low integrity in the first place. (S)He can and will cheat if (s)he has the desire to do so, or is too weak to resist an opportunity.

 

Of course there can be unhealthy male-female situations. For both men and women. But to assume on the basis of unhealthy situations that every situation is unhealthy is going a few bridges too far.

 

Most women keep their situations healthy. Most men too. However one needs to know a friend, before one can set boundaries. If a person for example has a history of being the person who people are cheating with, it is not wise to give them 'alone together time.' However if it was someone who has a healthy outlook on life, and lived by that outlook, it is not damaging at all.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by d'Arthez

Most women keep their situations healthy. Most men too.

 

what planet u live on D'ARTHEZ?? I see unhelathy relationships all around me with both sexes.

[Lonestar]

I will guarantee you GIRLDOWN that some of these supposed guy "friends" would love to make you bend over the back of a sofa and give it to u from behind.

 

Agreed. This is very true. I have four male friends who I would never consider sleeping with, but I like them in my life for one reason or another. Maybe I like hearing about their relationships with women and giving advice, or maybe the guy just cracks me up. I have one male friend I've known for 20 years. We did end up in bed 15 years ago, but I couldn't keep doing it. The love for a friend was there, but not the chemistry to sustain an intimate relationship.

 

I know full well that some of my male friends want to sleep with me, or bend me over a couch. I accept that as part of the friendship between a man & woman.

[shamen]

I have male friends with whom I spend time. Work friends, friends I know from being out and about. I go to the movies with some (only unattached men) and go out with some (dinner, bars), meet at parties/dinners with others; I also go camping/skiing/rafting with still others. I do a lot of outdoor activities and therefore it's inevitable that I find male friends, as well as female, that like the same things that I do. I also play a lot of pool and therefore have a lot of male friends from this activity as well as this activity tends to be predominantly male.

 

I spend time with them, and if they have a partner, I spend time with their partners too. I never hide these friendships from anyone and I'm always glad to meet their SO.

 

Spending time with people who are of the opposite sex, IMHO, can be just like spending time with people of my own sex. No, I do not want to have sex with all of my male friends. They do not all want to have sex with me. This is like saying that I want to have sex with all men that exist, which I certainly do not believe. All men do not want to have sex with all women either.

 

Needless to say, I believe in platonic friendships. Nor do I have a problem with my SOs being friends with women.

 

I'm not saying that feelings never develop from friendships, which they sometimes do. In that case, you either walk away from this person as a friend (which sucks, but is sometimes necessary), or if you are both uninvolved, see if something works out. D'Arthez mentioned that there is a certain level of trust that has to happen when involved with someone when it comes to platonic friendships. I completely agree. He also mentioned that if there was a cheating situation in the past with a SO, then it might be harder to understand/deal with that person having a platonic friend, again, I agree.

 

But in general, platonic opposite sex friendships can and do definitely exist. I have many, as well as same sex friendships.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by Lonestar

I know full well that some of my male friends want to sleep with me, or bend me over a couch. I accept that as part of the friendship between a man & woman.

 

Well lets reverse the situation LONESTAR. I don't really have any female "friends" anymore but when I was younger (25 or so) i did, esp at work.

 

Almost without exclusion I found out later on that those women that became friends with me at work wanted to date me. They were attractive professionals and very good at hiding their true feelings to me. I just thought we were buds, ya know. I would take these women out as friends and they apparently thought they were dates. Creepy i say.

 

WOmen do it also.

[shamen]

Originally posted by alphamale

Well lets reverse the situation LONESTAR. I don't really have any female "friends" anymore but when I was younger (25 or so) i did, esp at work.

 

Almost without exclusion I found out later on that those women that became friends with me at work wanted to date me. They were attractive professionals and very good at hiding their true feelings to me. I just thought we were buds, ya know. I would take these women out as friends and they apparently thought they were dates. Creepy i say.

 

WOmen do it also.

 

I completely disagree with you. I have lots of male friends at work and we do a lot of things together. I have no feelings for any of them, and they don't have any feelings for me. All of them are involved with a woman. I've met all of their SOs.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by shamen

and they don't have any feelings for me. All of them are involved with a woman. I've met all of their SOs.

 

how can u confirm that 100% SHAMEN? Can u get inside their head and look at their feelings?

 

And fact they are involved with some one else and you have met their SOs means nothing.

[Lonestar]

Almost without exclusion I found out later on that those women that became friends with me at work wanted to date me. They were attractive professionals and very good at hiding their true feelings to me. I just thought we were buds, ya know. I would take these women out as friends and they apparently thought they were dates. Creepy i say.

 

WOmen do it also.

 

Of course women do it too. It's human nature. I've had "feelings" for my male friends many times, and after a night of drinking, one starts to think "maybe I could be with this person." If you hang out with someone long enough and get to know them, there are inevitable feelings that start to develop and can be confused with sexual attraction. You have to be smart enough to realize that there is no future with that person intimately, whether it be because of other relationships people are involved in or lifestyles that just don't mesh.

 

I've learned not to doom a great friendship by crossing that line. I tried it in the past and almost lost a good friend. Friends can last forever, relationships come and go, and there are certain people you meet of the opposite sex that you want to keep around in your life for one reason or another. You risk losing that by crossing the line, but to ignore the fact that there are feelings and sexual thoughts like that on both sides is to ignore a huge part of what makes you such good friends. Attraction is always involved whether the relationship is platonic or not.

[shamen]

Alphamale, of course I can not confirm the fact that they don't have any feelings for me 100%, but can one know anything truly in this world 100% when it comes to feelings, philosophy? Of course not. Can you know that someone else will be will be with you for the rest of your life? No.

 

You really can't know anything like that 100%. Why worry about it? I've never hit on them, they've never hit on me. I'm friends with their SOs; we get along great. They don't make sexual comments to me and they talk talk talk about their SOs and their present lives and futures with their SOs with me, as I do with them (when I have a SO, which was the case up until recently).

 

The men that I'm friends with are like brothers to me. That's all that it is. My brother is a weird-o, so I'm glad to have a set of new brothers that I know that I can count on in my life. They think of me like a sister. Many of these men I've been friends with for years, so what, I'm supposed to stop being friends with them just because they gain a gf/fiance/wife in the time that I've known them?

 

Some people will think, yes, you should. If someone's SO thinks that it's important that my friend stops hanging out with women, then if my friend truly believes that too, we will have to do so, I will respect that person's wishes. Regrettably so, but I will do so. This has not yet ever been the case in my life (maybe it was in my teens/early 20s). I'm 35 years old and many of my friends are also in their 30s, some in their late 20s. I would hope that no one ever distrusts their SO, or me for that matter, to believe that their SO/I could do that to them.