"Friends So Plutonic You're Dying To Blow Them" [Open Debate/Explain Your Stupidity]

February 20, 2005

The men that I'm friends with are like brothers to me. That's all that it is. My brother is a weird-o, so I'm glad to have a set of new brothers that I know that I can count on in my life. They think of me like a sister. Many of these men I've been friends with for years, so what, I'm supposed to stop being friends with them just because they gain a gf/fiance/wife in the time that I've known them?

No, of course you're not supposed to stop being friends. I think the point or subject here is that these thoughts do cross everyone's mind, especially men. It's part of their physical makeup. Women can tend to ignore the attraction side of a platonic relationship and truly believe that their "brothers" never ever think about banging them. It's just not true.

All the male friends I have are very up front with me about their thoughts and fantasies when it comes to women, and I love that they can share those things. They just don't admit to me (usually) that they have thought about sex with me. I know and accept that they have.

February 20, 2005

Originally posted by Lonestar
No, of course you're not supposed to stop being friends. I think the point or subject here is that these thoughts do cross everyone's mind, especially men. It's part of their physical makeup. Women can tend to ignore the attraction side of a platonic relationship and truly believe that their "brothers" never ever think about banging them. It's just not true.

All the male friends I have are very up front with me about their thoughts and fantasies when it comes to women, and I love that they can share those things. They just don't admit to me (usually) that they have thought about sex with me. I know and accept that they have.

To be honest, I don't care if they have ever thought about sex with me. As long as it's never discussed, everything's cool. For the ones that have mentioned it, I keep a distance with them. I personally do not know that every man that I've ever been friends with has thought of me sexually. I am not willing to believe that men are so base that they think about banging every woman they know. Whether or not they have thought about me that way is irrelevant, IMHO.

Can you say that you're attracted to every man you know? I am most definitely not. Why would men be any different?

February 20, 2005

Originally posted by Lonestar
No, of course you're not supposed to stop being friends. I think the point or subject here is that these thoughts do cross everyone's mind, especially men. It's part of their physical makeup. Women can tend to ignore the attraction side of a platonic relationship and truly believe that their "brothers" never ever think about banging them. It's just not true.

bingo!

February 20, 2005

Originally posted by shamen
I personally do not know that every man that I've ever been friends with has thought of me sexually. I am not willing to believe that men are so base that they think about banging every woman they know.

Can you say that you're attracted to every man you know? I am most definitely not. Why would men be any different?

even seen "When Harry met Sally"? It is quite accurate on this subject about male-female friendships.

February 20, 2005

To be honest, I don't care if they have ever thought about sex with me. As long as it's never discussed, everything's cool. For the ones that have mentioned it, I keep a distance with them.

That's perfectly acceptable and most men I know would never tell a woman what goes through their head if they want to keep them as a friend. The ones that have mentioned it to you were being honest, but they also lost you as a close friend in the process. There are so many things that are never discussed in platonic male/female relationships, and sometimes that's the way it should be.

Can you say that you're attracted to every man you know? I am most definitely not. Why would men be any different?

I'm not attracted to every man I know, but every man I consider a close friend, yes. Maybe not physically attracted to them, but there's always some emotional aspect to it. You choose to have a friend in your life b/c they meet a certain need. You are attracted to them b/c that need is being met. Depending on how close the two of you become, other feelings can also surface. Thing is they're just passing feelings that no one has to act on. When men feel this closeness, they fantasize about sex. They really do.

February 20, 2005

what planet u live on D'ARTHEZ?? I see unhelathy relationships all around me with both sexes.

The same planet. Although I don't live near the Detroit area

Be careful we don't make overgeneralizations. Because some people exhibit unhealthy habits, not everyone does.

If one 'friend' is trying to get into your pants, not every 'friend' will have that intention. If you have a friend who smokes and does coke, it does not make the generalization "everyone who smokes, does coke" correct.

If someone is royally screwed over in a relationship they will have the mindset: "All (wo)men are f*ckers." Does that mean the statement is true, because the person has been involved with 1 f*cker? Of course not.

Men and women can be perfectly platonic friends. However, if either of them is ruled by their hormones, as Grinning Maniac is, based on his own admission, they see everything in the light of the desire that rules their lifes. Nothing too much wrong with that, especially when a person is concious about his thoughts and motivations, but it is faulty to assume that every man has the same desire.

To say a friendship is impure or not there are all sorts of things that have to be taken into account.

How did the respective friendships develop? Where did you meet, have you lived by your moral standards et cetera? And what do they consist of? These are questions that cannot be left out of the picture.

February 20, 2005

even seen "When Harry met Sally"?

She's only seen that movie if she's pushing 40.

February 20, 2005

Originally posted by Lonestar
There are so many things that are never discussed in platonic male/female relationships, and sometimes that's the way it should be.

I personally do not believe in close male-female friendships anymore. Used to think they were OK when I was younger but not anymore. These relationships are usually a can of worms and one party ususally wants more than friends. When they figure out that they can't have more the "friendship" dissolves.

I do have many female acquaintances, however. But none i would call a close friend.

When men feel this closeness, they fantasize about sex. They really do.

this is true.

February 20, 2005

Originally posted by alphamale
even seen "When Harry met Sally"? It is quite accurate on this subject about male-female friendships.

Again, this is assuming that the people are attracted to one another. Ew. The thought of having sex with most of my male friends completely disgusts me.

So, you're assuming that people become more attractive over time as you get to know them? True, to a point, but I still don't want to f*** them. Nor will I. This is going to sound terrible, please forgive me, but I am not so egotistical to believe that all of my male friends find me so attractive that they want to have sex with me, regardless of how much time I've known them.

In my life, I've only ever had two good friends where feelings got our friendship totally mixed up. We are no longer friends. One in my early 20s and one recently. Both incidents really sadden me.

Alphamale, so do you think about banging every woman you see? This is what it sounds like to me, that men can't help but think about all women this way... And if you're not saying that, are you saying that you only become friends with attractive women? Is that some sort of prerequisite?

February 20, 2005

Originally posted by Lonestar
She's only seen that movie if she's pushing 40.

Yep, a little over 4 years from now... (yes, I've seen the movie)

February 20, 2005

Originally posted by shamen
Alphamale, so do you think about banging every woman you see? This is what it sounds like to me, that men can't help but think about all women this way...

I would say that is fairly accurate SHAMEN, women don't understand that sex rules a man's mind. We think about sex on a hourly basis and for us it is normal. I don't think about banging every woman I see, but the ones i am attracted to, yes.

And if you're not saying that, are you saying that you only become friends with attractive women? Is that some sort of prerequisite?

I become acquaintances with women i am attracted to, yes. But they must also have some other qualities I like also. I don't believe in true friendship between the sexes but I have many female acquaintance and I'd probably bang 90% of them if i had the chance.

February 20, 2005

Originally posted by Lonestar
That's perfectly acceptable and most men I know would never tell a woman what goes through their head if they want to keep them as a friend. The ones that have mentioned it to you were being honest, but they also lost you as a close friend in the process. There are so many things that are never discussed in platonic male/female relationships, and sometimes that's the way it should be.

I'm not attracted to every man I know, but every man I consider a close friend, yes. Maybe not physically attracted to them, but there's always some emotional aspect to it. You choose to have a friend in your life b/c they meet a certain need. You are attracted to them b/c that need is being met. Depending on how close the two of you become, other feelings can also surface. Thing is they're just passing feelings that no one has to act on. When men feel this closeness, they fantasize about sex. They really do.

All good points. OK, OK, I concede, Lonestar. Maybe they do fantasize about sex, but in my friendships, it's not discussed and nothing comes of it. Peace.

Alphamale, thinking of banging every woman you see that is attractive is fairly accurate, you say... Not surprising news. I would venture to say that there are women who think about sex with men that they find attractive on a regular basis too. I do. These again are thoughts and whether or not one acts on it or even discusses it is a matter of choice. It's still irrelevant in the friendship, IMHO.

I still believe in friendship among the different sexes...

February 20, 2005

This is going to sound terrible, please forgive me, but I am not so egotistical to believe that all of my male friends find me so attractive that they want to have sex with me, regardless of how much time I've known them.

In the words of my male friends "there are women who are very attractive and women who are good enough to f*ck." I have heard that many times, so what does that tell ya about men.

I still believe in male/female relationships too, and I always will. I couldn't imagine my life w/o some of my men friends. Alpha just has yet to meet a very cool woman he could become close friends with. Of course, he'd always want to bang her, but that's beside the point.

February 20, 2005

Originally posted by Lonestar:
In the words of my male friends "there are women who are very attractive and women who are good enough to f*ck." I have heard that many times, so what does that tell ya about men.

It only tells something about these men, not all men. Don't overgeneralize Lonestar!

February 20, 2005

Originally posted by Lonestar
Alpha just has yet to meet a very cool woman he could become close friends with. Of course, he'd always want to bang her, but that's beside the point.

February 20, 2005

Originally posted by Lonestar
Alpha just has yet to meet a very cool woman he could become close friends with. Of course, he'd always want to bang her, but that's beside the point.

well LONESTAR, she would have to be very very single cause if she had a b/f or hubby he would most likely be very threatened by me.

i already said I had a # of close female friends when i was in my twenties but i don't believe in it any more.

Now my philosophy is that women are meant for having relationships with and sex with and fun, not for being "freinds" with.

I usually become great friends with the woman i am banging at the time anyways so within the context of a relationship it is OK.

February 20, 2005

What a lovely rational discussion! Problem is, folks tend to abandon rationality when emotions get tangled up.

I think this is the key to having friends of the opposite gender:

The thought of having sex with most of my male friends completely disgusts me.

This doesn't mean they're physically attractive or unattractive, either. It just means that you cannot possibly see yourself ever in the context of other than friendship, generally because your friends are great as friends but there's deal-breakers in their character that make them undesirable as partners.

Most women keep their situations healthy. Most men too. However one needs to know a friend, before one can set boundaries.

Grand theory. Problem is that people think they can set boundaries but many times have fallen for someone before they realized it was happening. So that theory works if the boundary is that you stay far away from someone that you're attracted to or could see as a partner. It's virtually impossible to be 'just friends' with someone like that.

If you hang out with someone long enough and get to know them, there are inevitable feelings that start to develop and can be confused with sexual attraction. You have to be smart enough to realize that there is no future with that person intimately, whether it be because of other relationships people are involved in or lifestyles that just don't mesh.

Key phrase in bold, there. Not everyone is smart enough. They get 'swept away' by the lust and it fries their thinking powers.

She's only seen that movie if she's pushing 40.

It's on TV probably once a year.

February 20, 2005

Originally posted by moimeme
What a lovely rational discussion! Problem is, folks tend to abandon rationality when emotions get tangled up.

welcome to the human race. millions have died due to this.

I think this is the key to having friends of the opposite gender:

This doesn't mean they're physically attractive or unattractive, either. It just means that you cannot possibly see yourself ever in the context of other than friendship, generally because your friends are great as friends but there's deal-breakers in their character that make them undesirable as partners.

the above is much easier for women to do than for men.

Grand theory. Problem is that people think they can set boundaries but many times have fallen for someone before they realized it was happening. So that theory works if the boundary is that you stay far away from someone that you're attracted to or could see as a partner. It's virtually impossible to be 'just friends' with someone like that.

I agree with this.

Key phrase in bold, there. Not everyone is smart enough. They get 'swept away' by the lust and it fries their thinking powers.

I also agree with this.

It's on TV probably once a year.

Try once a week if you have cable or satellite.

February 20, 2005

Most women keep their situations healthy. Most men too. However one needs to know a friend, before one can set boundaries.

Grand theory. Problem is that people think they can set boundaries but many times have fallen for someone before they realized it was happening. So that theory works if the boundary is that you stay far away from someone that you're attracted to or could see as a partner. It's virtually impossible to be 'just friends' with someone like that.

Maybe I have not expressed myself clear enough, but this was more the type of situation that you are committed to someone, and your SO is spending time with a friend of the opposite gender. The integrity of that friend and of your SO are then logically part of the equation. Most people have limited integrity, true.

Small elaboration, wherein the gender roles can be reversed of course: If you find your husband is spending time with someone you consider to be a wh*re, there is definetely a problem. If however he spends the same amount of time with your sister who is the exemplary person living a virtuous life, there is no problem. But if your husband has a past of cheating on almost every girlfriend and wife he has had, there will always be a problem, even if it is time with a nun at the age of 75.

It is always important to talk about friends of the opposite gender in a relationship, and not to hide them. If you do hide them, your perceived integrity might take a serious blow in the eyes of your SO when (s)he finds out. And if you have tried to hide it, by not sharing information, it will lower your integrity ranks.

Even when people are married it does not immunize them for developing feelings for another person, and the desire to act upon them. It is simply not true to believe that every (wo)man will act upon these desire.

Bottomline: for some (most?) people female-male friendships have a sexual component. However that is not necessarily the case for every man and woman.

February 20, 2005

Now that I think about it, I have a number of female friends and I have thought/fantasized about “bending them over the sofa” many times. The handful that I haven’t though/fantasized about fit GM’s criteria almost invariably.

Originally posted by Grinning Maniac

1. If she was uglier than sin and/or could launch me into orbit on a see-saw.
2. If she was a very butch lesbian...(although on a really horny day, the thought's still briefly crossed my mind...)
3. If she was psychotic and self-abusive...and ugly.
4. If her body was a herpes platter with a side order of AIDS.
5. If she was a quadriplegic...and also had an unattractive mouth.
6. If my genitals were lost in an industrial accident or chemical fire. Both testicles must be gone. BOTH.
7. If I was blinder than Ray Charles in a blackout.

So I guess in the interests of solidarity I must join the group that distrusts cross gender friendships. Unless they meet the GM list of course, but even GM’s list is purely subjective so even that is untrustworthy.

February 20, 2005

Most people have limited integrity, true.

Small elaboration, wherein the gender roles can be reversed of course: If you find your husband is spending time with someone you consider to be a wh*re, there is definetely a problem. If however he spends the same amount of time with your sister who is the exemplary person living a virtuous life, there is no problem.

It isn't a question of integrity. That's the myth. People of great integrity may think they can manage to be just friends but find themselves having fallen for each other without intending to. If you read through the infidelity board, you'll find countless threads by people who struck up what they thought would be innocent friendships and ended up getting involved. If you find that you enjoy someone's company tremendously and that you're attracted to that person and one or both of you are already attached, you have to end the friendship because it will, except in rare circumstances, continue to progress. Thinking you're too 'virtuous' to do that is the road to destruction for sure.

February 21, 2005

Originally posted by moimeme
I think this is the key to having friends of the opposite gender:

The thought of having sex with my male friends completely disgust me.

This doesn't mean they're physically attractive or unattractive, either. It just means that you cannot possibly see yourself ever in the context of other than friendship, generally because your friends are great as friends but there's deal-breakers in their character that make them undesirable as partners.

Correct! I can't see it as anything else but friendship, and the deal-breaker is that that they are (or that I am (was)) involved.

February 21, 2005

Grinning Maniac,

I'm with you there! I hear the spirit of your discussion. Replace some of the male references with female references, and there you have it. I agree. Male or female friends -- there has to be lines drawn, AND the significant other has to know about them all, AND be included in plans or outings, whatever, when possible. Any hint or indication of dissatisfaction on the SO side has to be treated seriously and reassuring action taken.

February 21, 2005

People of great integrity may think they can manage to be just friends but find themselves having fallen for each other without intending to. If you read through the infidelity board, you'll find countless threads by people who struck up what they thought would be innocent friendships and ended up getting involved. If you find that you enjoy someone's company tremendously and that you're attracted to that person and one or both of you are already attached, you have to end the friendship because it will, except in rare circumstances, continue to progress. Thinking you're too 'virtuous' to do that is the road to destruction for sure.

It is difficult to give a defintion of integrity. It is not just about the morals of the person but about the whole person.Integrity is not blindly following the (professional) rules. It might even require we break some of the rules (not at random of course, or take the easy way out with a rationalzation). Every state has a few idiotic rules. Or are the residents of Florida willing to comply with all the rules concerning sexual conduct?

Sorry to take a short detour

From the Brothers Karamazov:
Alyosha ... was distressed to see that his friend Rakitin was dishonourable, and quite unconscious of being so himself, considering, on the contrary, that because he would not steal money left on the table he was a man of the highest integrity.

There exist a great difference between 'integrity' and 'perceived integrity.' Most people consider themselves highly integer. People, with rare exceptions, always consider themselves to be the person with the highest integrity. Even if the person is a serial adulterer. That does not imply they are integer. If a person thinks he is completely virtuous, he has already "fallen."

Most people are bad judges of character, true. Of course, everyone can make a mistake. But to pile mistake upon mistake and suddenly find yourself in an uneasy friendship / affair can only be attributed to young youth or a lack of psychological insight.

I can understand the skepticism though.

February 21, 2005

Too many different fonts, sizes, and colors in your original post for me to follow. Why do you try to confuse the llama?

I am of the "ugly as sin" variety, therefore I have a plethora of platonic male friends.

llama

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"Friends So Plutonic You're Dying To Blow Them" [Open Debate/Explain Your Stupidity]

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