Does it have to be all or nothing? [update - not a good feeling]

[nightmare01]

Why are you still with your husband if you feel this strongly for your AP?

 

Would it not be best for all if you D your husband and could then devote yourself 100% to your AP? Seems to me everyone would be better off that way.

 

Maybe you still being married is what is keeping your AP from wanting to have a real relationship with you?

[Pushing Forward]

Good question which I really have a hard time answering. I'm not going to leave my H, because (contrary to other's beliefs) I do love him and won't tear the family apart with this. I also don't know if it would even work with the OM. There are too many other factors involved to explain but family is the biggest. I'm not sure anyone would accept this R as the "norm" and it would take years to make it work. I don't think everyone would be better off if I left my M and went with the OM. Thank you for your concern though. I appreciate it.

 

Why are you still with your husband if you feel this strongly for your AP?

 

Would it not be best for all if you D your husband and could then devote yourself 100% to your AP? Seems to me everyone would be better off that way.

 

Maybe you still being married is what is keeping your AP from wanting to have a real relationship with you?

[nightmare01]

Just idle speculation. but what if OM does get back with his wife and she forces NC from his end. what if OM were out of your life forever.

 

can you see yourself being happily faithful to your BH? or is it likely that another OM would come along? Or would you be back with your OM after the storm blew over?

 

Im really trying to be gentle here. Im genuinely curious about how you feel. maybe I can gain some insight about how my WW feels.

[thummper]

Good question which I really have a hard time answering.1. I'm not going to leave my H, because (contrary to other's beliefs) I do love him and 2.won't tear the family apart with this. I also don't know if it would even work with the OM. There are too many other factors involved to explain but family is the biggest. I'm not sure anyone would accept this R as the "norm" and it would take years to make it work. I don't think everyone would be better off if I left my M and went with the OM. Thank you for your concern though. I appreciate it.

 

1. Nonsensical comment. If you actually "loved" your husband, you wouldn't have spread (or soon to be spreading, no doubt) your legs for another guy. You must have an interesting definition for "love."

 

 

2. Affairs have the darndest habit of being discovered: you slip up and leave some kind of evidence that your husband accidentally finds; someone rats you out (it is possible that others know of your, uh, indiscretion); his wife finds out and contacts your husband. If your husband does discover what you've been up to, what about your family then? Oops!

[Pushing Forward]

The OM has been separated for 2 years and his STBX is actually living with someone else. Divorce papers have been filled out and I think if it weren't for the death in the family it would probably be done already. I don't see that happening. What's more likely to happen is that he finds someone else to date and wants to cut off communication with me. He seems to think that we could be friends even if he's dating someone else whereas I don't think that will work because he dated a bit last year and it was an emotional roller coaster for both of us.

 

Yes, I do see myself being faithful to my BH. I am getting better at thinking of him and my family and not the OM. I'm a work in progress. I know what I need to do and I will get there. I'm working on concentrating on the important things. Avoiding triggers and when I think of OM I try to push the thoughts away with thoughts of BH & family and things we want to do in our future. I know it sounds ridiculous to many people that I can be like two different people, one in another world altogether but it happens and I will get back eventually.

 

Just idle speculation. but what if OM does get back with his wife and she forces NC from his end. what if OM were out of your life forever.

 

can you see yourself being happily faithful to your BH? or is it likely that another OM would come along? Or would you be back with your OM after the storm blew over?

 

Im really trying to be gentle here. Im genuinely curious about how you feel. maybe I can gain some insight about how my WW feels.

[Pushing Forward]

I guess you don't really go by the tag line in your signature. I love my husband whether you believe it or not. You can love more than one person at a time. Maybe you don't believe that but it's true for many people, so my comment was not nonsensical.

 

Yes, I understand your comment about discovery. Then I deal with it. They don't know now and I'll do my best to keep it that way. I know it doesn't always work that way.

 

1. Nonsensical comment. If you actually "loved" your husband, you wouldn't have spread (or soon to be spreading, no doubt) your legs for another guy. You must have an interesting definition for "love."

 

 

2. Affairs have the darndest habit of being discovered: you slip up and leave some kind of evidence that your husband accidentally finds; someone rats you out (it is possible that others know of your, uh, indiscretion); his wife finds out and contacts your husband. If your husband does discover what you've been up to, what about your family then? Oops!

[thummper]

The end of my tag line says, quite clearly, "unless you can't avoid it." When I hear the kind of things you've been saying, that part comes into play. The kind of "love" you're describing belongs to your husband and no one else. You're describing lust not love, and I don't care if you don't believe it.

[Pushing Forward]

Glad we're in agreement then. I don't care that you don't believe what I'm saying either. Thanks for helping.

The end of my tag line says, quite clearly, "unless you can't avoid it." When I hear the kind of things you've been saying, that part comes into play. The kind of "love" you're describing belongs to your husband and no one else. You're describing lust not love, and I don't care if you don't believe it.

[nightmare01]

The OM has been separated for 2 years and his STBX is actually living with someone else. Divorce papers have been filled out and I think if it weren't for the death in the family it would probably be done already. I don't see that happening. What's more likely to happen is that he finds someone else to date and wants to cut off communication with me. He seems to think that we could be friends even if he's dating someone else whereas I don't think that will work because he dated a bit last year and it was an emotional roller coaster for both of us.

 

Yes, I do see myself being faithful to my BH. I am getting better at thinking of him and my family and not the OM. I'm a work in progress. I know what I need to do and I will get there. I'm working on concentrating on the important things. Avoiding triggers and when I think of OM I try to push the thoughts away with thoughts of BH & family and things we want to do in our future. I know it sounds ridiculous to many people that I can be like two different people, one in another world altogether but it happens and I will get back eventually.

 

Thank you for your thoughtful reply, I very much appreciate it.

 

Being a BH myself I dont agree with much of your POV. But slinging zingers at each other will do nothing for either of us.

 

Would it be too much for me to ask you another question? Probably best to PM me your reply as I don't want you to endure too much flak.

 

My question:

Through out all my relationships prior to my WW I was serially monogamous. That is, I would have one girl friend that I was monogamous with until that relationship ended. After that I would hook up with someone else and be monogamous with them.

 

My WW though was never really monogamous. She pretty much kept a stable of men she dated and would have sex with different ones through out each week. She wasnt really emotionally tied to any of them.

 

In your opinion does the relationship pattern before M give any indication about whether or not a person will cheat?

[Pushing Forward]

I understand you don't agree and I appreciate your calmly discussing things without the name calling and all. I definitely think that someone's prior relationship MO would have an influence on future relationships as well. However, I am probably not the best person to ask. I was married ten years before this A and never once considered straying. I was also married before for two years and didn't have an A then either. I haven't done this before and I do worry about making sure I don't do it again, but I don't necessarily agree that "once a cheater always a cheater" either. I believe this A has more to do with the OM and how we made each other feel, and not because I'm predisposed to cheat because I never have before.

 

Thank you for your thoughtful reply, I very much appreciate it.

 

Being a BH myself I dont agree with much of your POV. But slinging zingers at each other will do nothing for either of us.

 

Would it be too much for me to ask you another question? Probably best to PM me your reply as I don't want you to endure too much flak.

 

My question:

Through out all my relationships prior to my WW I was serially monogamous. That is, I would have one girl friend that I was monogamous with until that relationship ended. After that I would hook up with someone else and be monogamous with them.

 

My WW though was never really monogamous. She pretty much kept a stable of men she dated and would have sex with different ones through out each week. She wasnt really emotionally tied to any of them.

 

In your opinion does the relationship pattern before M give any indication about whether or not a person will cheat?

[nightmare01]

Again thanks.

 

Maybe under the right (or wrong) circumstances anyone can cheat.

[Pushing Forward]

I never would have agreed with you before, but I'm not sure. You may be right. I don't think everyone would think that and I always thought I couldn't. Until I did. And even now it's hard to believe sometimes. I wish you all the best.

 

Again thanks.

 

Maybe under the right (or wrong) circumstances anyone can cheat.

[Spectre]

I love my husband whether you believe it or not.

 

People will believe it if you ever decide to start acting like it. Your poor husband, he probably actually believes you care for him. You realize every single second that passes by where you have not been honest with him..you are making a huge fool of him, right?

 

You can love more than one person at a time.

 

Tell me you did not say this because you feel you love the OM.

 

Maybe you don't believe that but it's true for many people, so my comment was not nonsensical.

 

Right now you are experiencing a massive dose of denial. You seem to legitimately believe you love and care for this man..all the while sitting here asking us if it has to be "all or nothing" with this other guy and talking about how you are still contacting him and then to say things like "oh hey I haven't been down the road to see the guy!" as if you were making a huge sacrifice staying away from the slimeball you cheated with.

 

Let me just be clear, you DO think the guy you cheated with is a piece of sh*t right? If you respect your husband even a little bit then your answer will be "oh hell yes".

 

I also have to ask why you feel your husband doesn't deserve to be with someone who will never cheat? If you truly love your husband wouldn't you want the best for him? I was going to ask you if you would want to know you had been cheated on if the roles were reversed, but I'm pretty sure you will just say "no" whether that is actually the case or not.

[Spectre]

Again thanks.

 

Maybe under the right (or wrong) circumstances anyone can cheat.

 

No, not at all. Don't say this, it just gives the cheaters more excuses.

 

Fact is people in love don't cheat and they sure as hell don't have the gall to cheat and then act like them not confessing is somehow for the greater good. If you love your spouse, but are having problems then you address those, you don't go bang a dude or have an emotional affair with a dude. You surely do not refer to yourself as a "real wife" after that. If that is a real wife, I want a fake one.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Spectre

[HereNorThere]

OP, if your husband was cheating on you under the exact same circumstances, how would you like him to handle it? I think we are all trying to see things from your perspective, so what would you think was appropriate? Would you prefer that he hid it from you? Would you prefer to know the truth? Would you prefer that he practice safe sex? I think we are all genuinely interested in how you would handle being on the other side of the fence.

[Spectre]

OP, if your husband was cheating on you under the exact same circumstances, how would you like him to handle it? I think we are all trying to see things from your perspective, so what would you think was appropriate? Would you prefer that he hid it from you? Would you prefer to know the truth? Would you prefer that he practice safe sex? I think we are all genuinely interested in how you would handle being on the other side of the fence.

 

See I think this is a pointless question. You have seen the attitude of the OP. The little remorse she shows, the strange notions of what people in love act like, etc. Do you think that, even if she would indeed prefer to be told the truth..she would admit it here? It would just make her not telling look even worse. Of course a person advocating not telling will say they would rather not be told.

[nightmare01]

I never would have agreed with you before, but I'm not sure. You may be right. I don't think everyone would think that and I always thought I couldn't. Until I did. And even now it's hard to believe sometimes. I wish you all the best.

 

Maybe we all love differently. I dont understand it.

 

Like everyone I've been upset at my WW. Even before her LTA she was horrible and disrespectful to me many times. But on the table as far as ways to reply to or respond to her anger and disrespect I considered reasoning with her / working it out, marriage counseling, or divorce. Having a affair was never on the table. I never even thought about it.

 

Now I dont want to sound like some high moral holier than thou guy, because Im not. I was not a very good husband. I did the best I could but my career and hobbies distracted me and took me away from her. But when I thought we were having problems I turned toward her, not away and to someone else.

 

Maybe I was just not in a risky environment. Or maybe I was just unaware of opportunities women offered me. I can be pretty dumb and unaware at times.

 

I tried having date nights and we did have them most weeks. We took vacations together just her and I. We went to Europe. I bought her gifts for no reason. Birthday, V-day, anniversaries, and other holidays I always remembered. But again I was no saint and I made sure I did these things because I could tell she was unhappy.

 

So I really have no idea what to make of it.

 

We are reconciling now, but its been a very long and hard road - not so much because of her LTA, but mostly because of all the lies she told.

[Pushing Forward]

It's clear some have no desire to see things from my POV and that's ok. I understand your question and appreciate the calm tone though. I honestly don't know what I'd prefer. Yes, I'd want him to practice safe sex if he was cheating. I'm not going to say that I wouldn't want to know because I'm not really sure. I know I would be upset and I would want to know why. Sorry. I know that's not much of an answer.

OP, if your husband was cheating on you under the exact same circumstances, how would you like him to handle it? I think we are all trying to see things from your perspective, so what would you think was appropriate? Would you prefer that he hid it from you? Would you prefer to know the truth? Would you prefer that he practice safe sex? I think we are all genuinely interested in how you would handle being on the other side of the fence.

[A.Moscote]

...I'm not going to say that I wouldn't want to know because I'm not really sure. I know I would be upset and I would want to know why...

 

Hopefully that is an honest reply, not because that is what we've been (a bit zealously) pushing you to admit. Kudos if it is so, not easy to say something that might contradict ourselves or our own actions. Build on that honesty and courage.

Don't bury off confession, don't bring it to the grave. Just pray for a chance, a suitable time and situation someday, for you to tell the truth and seek real forgiveness. Surely there will be that chance.

 

Right now though, it's all about ending the affair definitely, and keeping yourself strong to struggle through the emotions and desire. Be more active for a real strong closure, don't just passively flow with this unplanned NC/cold period. Be quick before your AP start waving his charms again. Seize this period of clear awareness and good conscience to act.

 

Be careful, and always learn from your experience. Remember that based on the past, the odd is against you making through this. Sorry for stating that. Be optimist and good luck anyway.

[Pushing Forward]

Thank you. I appreciate all your responses. Yes, that's an honest answer. I have no reason to lie in here just to say what people want me to say. I know many don't get it and never will and I understand that. I really do. And I do know my history and need to change the future.

 

Hopefully that is an honest reply, not because that is what we've been (a bit zealously) pushing you to admit. Kudos if it is so, not easy to say something that might contradict ourselves or our own actions. Build on that honesty Be careful, and always learn from your experience. Remember that based on the past, the odd is against you making through this. Sorry for stating that. Be optimist and good luck anyway.

[jackslife]

Pushing Forward:

At the end of the day you can only do things as you see fit.

 

I don't remember if you have tried counselling, but if not I'd recommend it. As a WS it's almost impossible to confide in friends or even seek advice on sites like this. IC gives you a chance to just talk about you and discover more about yourself. It may help it may not, but it's a worthwhile exercise.

[Owl]

PF...one question.

 

What are you doing different today than you were doing the day you first posted here for advice?

[Pushing Forward]

I'm M and have been having a LTA with the OM who is separated from his wife. I've posted before so I won't list everything again but had to post because I'm worried DDay might occur. OM had a GF since his STBXW moved out. He lied to me about this woman and I am now finding out their R was longer and more involved than I knew.. I thought he was over with her but just still talking and now I found out he'd still been seeing her off and on the whole time I thought they were over. They've had a falling out and she's bringing up instances where she was suspicious of me (over a year ago). She has since messaged me and my H and is trying to "share information" that she has. I don't think she knows anything really, but just planting the seed of doubt in my H's mind would raise questions.

 

I'm devastated at the extent of the lies the OM has told me even though I know it's ridiculously hypocritical when I have an H and am having an A. Unfortunately that doesn't stop the hurt or sting of betrayal. However, I'm concerned wondering to what extent she will go to get back at him regarding me. She already tried to get my H to call her but I deleted the message and then she messaged me saying that she wondered what my H would think of me texting the OM. She's also texted others in his family with mean words.

 

I've thought about coming clean with my H before she gets to him some how but at the same time I don't really think she has proof of any kind. I've talked to one other person about this (my mom) and her advice was to keep quiet and deny any accusations she may make. I have never had any plans to leave my H and now I have even more reason to just leave the OM alone.

 

I wish I had known about his R with her when it started as it may have been easier to walk away then, but instead he lied and I continued on. He tried to break it off with both of us but the stupid idiots we are, we both kept wanting him. The major difference is that she's crazy and I'm just plain dumb.

 

I know I need to get out completely and go NC with the OM but right now I'm trying to find out if she says anything else so I know how to prepare for it. If it becomes known I will deal with it and do whatever I can to repair my marriage. I'm just not sure if coming out myself is the best way especially if I can get thru this without Dday occurring. I also wish I could start thinking of the OM in the ugly way he really is. Unfortunately I would still see him if given the chance even after all the lies.

 

I don't understand how he could do what he's done to me (the lying about the R with her) but I don't understand how I could have done it either, so there's really no way to fault him alone when I've been in this A with him and creating my own betrayal on my H. I plan to set up counseling for myself because I feel like I've been hit by a truck. I've done nothing but sleep and cry today in between talks with him trying to find out what's up with the GF and if he can tell what's she's gonna do. He has told me to take it for what it is, he's a jerk, he lied and he hopes that I can do what is best for me and move on and he just hopes that I can get out of this okay. He's sorry of course but I'm not sure I believe a word he says anymore. I think when you're in an A you always want to believe that what you have is special, unique, and not like other affairs, but I know that's not true for most. They are the same. Just a lot of lies and half truths to justify the wants and desires of the time. I was dead wrong about him and my H has been betrayed by me and would probably feel ten times worse than I can imagine.

 

This isn't something I ever thought I could do and now I'm feeling the pain of being the betrayer and the betrayed.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Pushing Forward

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Seriously? Most of us know the minute we smack someone what the sting will feel like! It's called empathy! How can you, in the same breath complain about betraying and being betrayed! Both positions involve the same feelings.

 

I can't imagine his lies hurting more than your own.

[Pushing Forward]

I never said that his lies hurt more. I'm only posting what is going on and what I feel now.

 

 

Seriously? Most of us know the minute we smack someone what the sting will feel like! It's called empathy! How can you, in the same breath complain about betraying and being betrayed! Both positions involve the same feelings.

 

I can't imagine his lies hurting more than your own.