"We're trying to save our marriage" [update]

[hippetyhop]

<Update - Can it be kept platonic?>

 

Hi everyone,

 

Its been quite some time since I posted.

 

Basically, for the past 2 years, I've been in an A with a MM. For the past year, its been hell as BS found out.

 

This past weekend, he stayed it at a buddy's house so things "aren't so hostile at home." I get it. I gave him his space as well.

 

Today, he sent me a text that said."I had a good long talk with BS and we are going to try to save this. That being said, we can still talk if you want but we can never meet again. I hope you understand."

 

Honestly--I saw that text coming. I was telling one of my girlfriends about it, and I called that. He made me wait 2 days to contact me, so I can do the same.

 

Now, I don't know how to respond. This is the opportunity to tell him how I really feel.

 

I want to tell him something along the lines of "I love you, I always have and always will. Of course, I respect your decision to try and make it work and I understand your stance completely. Throughout this, you know I always supported you. You know XXXXX, I will always be here for you no matter what life brings. Thus, I do not object if having contact with you if you are able to yourself. However, when we meet again, introduced as friends, please don’t let on that you knew me when I was hungry and it was your world."

 

FYI: We met through my sister and brother in law.

 

Another question: why give me the ultimatum to talk or not? So if I don't want to its less pressure on him? Or, if I say "you can contact me if you want to talk" then its still an open door to the A? Is an A truly over still if they talk?

 

Advice??!

Edited July 23, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[MuddyFootprints]

If he truly wants to save his marriage, interaction between the two of you needs to be severed. Completely.

[hippetyhop]

If he truly wants to save his marriage, interaction between the two of you needs to be severed. Completely.

 

Then why would he put the ball in my court? To soften the blow or to keep the invitation open at my discretion? Or his way of not having any enemies. I would keep it open but i wouldn't have any reason to contact him.

Edited July 8, 2014 by hippetyhop

[GypsyHeart83]

Hippetyhop.. I'm going through something similar with my AP of 1 1/2 years. Recently we had a falling out, and he decided that he needed to break it off for good so that he could "try to make to make it work for his children.. That he owed it to them to try", and so he wouldn't feel like he was "keeping me from moving on".

 

With that said.. He hasn't cut off our form of communication, and the messages I sent in response trying to say "good bye", he's answered in a cryptic way, never really saying anything final or resolute. Just that he was "so torn, and that I knew how he felt about me."

 

I haven't responded of written anything in a couple days, though I'm itching to. I'm not sure if it's really over this time, or if he is just playing hot/cold. I do know that I've decided if he does come back, I WILL tell him I want nothing to do with him until he's available emotionally and physically.

 

If he respects that, he'll do what he has to in order to be with you. If he doesn't.. You haven't lost anything in the long run except waiting for a train that is never coming in.

[hippetyhop]

Hippetyhop.. I'm going through something similar with my AP of 1 1/2 years. Recently we had a falling out, and he decided that he needed to break it off for good so that he could "try to make to make it work for his children.. That he owed it to them to try", and so he wouldn't feel like he was "keeping me from moving on".

 

With that said.. He hasn't cut off our form of communication, and the messages I sent in response trying to say "good bye", he's answered in a cryptic way, never really saying anything final or resolute. Just that he was "so torn, and that I knew how he felt about me."

 

I haven't responded of written anything in a couple days, though I'm itching to. I'm not sure if it's really over this time, or if he is just playing hot/cold. I do know that I've decided if he does come back, I WILL tell him I want nothing to do with him until he's available emotionally and physically.

 

If he respects that, he'll do what he has to in order to be with you. If he doesn't.. You haven't lost anything in the long run except waiting for a train that is never coming in.

 

We didn't have a falling out at all; BS was suspicious. The whole her being suspicious started last summer when she was given a heads up that he was cheating. A friend of hers told her that her husband was up to no good. I ended it (he wanted to be friends; he said he could never do anything physical with me again) and I left the ball in his court re. it. For about a year we've been on/off. Maybe this time it'll be for good. I'm not trying to jinx it and think he'll come back how he did in the past.

 

Do you think me calling the shots as to whether or not we talk is what he wants to officially end it? Maybe he's hot/cold in that sense as well?

 

Do you think you are going to respond to him? How often does he try to talk to you?

 

I haven't responded to him either yet :/ He can wait, right?

Edited July 8, 2014 by hippetyhop

[MuddyFootprints]

Then why would he put the ball in my court? To soften the blow or to keep the invitation open at my discretion? Or his way of not having any enemies. I would keep it open but i wouldn't have any reason to contact him.

 

It doesn't really matter why. The bolded is what is important. You know where you stand.

[hippetyhop]

Its a mix of not having anything to say and being afraid to contact him first if that makes sense :/

 

I can always be a 'you know what' and reply to his message with 'fine' or 'okay' lol, jk.

 

I'm just stumped over why putting the ball in my court. He's the one telling me he can't having anything physical with me, but its okay if I want to talk. Is it that he still wants to talk but doesn't want to admit to it? It makes absolutely no sense to me..maybe it doesn't right now because its still fresh and I'm hurting.

[GypsyHeart83]

I haven't heard from my AP for 2 days now. We haven't gone more than 2 days EVER without speaking.. The whole time of the A. No matter where he was in the world. (He's an entertainer and travels a lot)

 

I'm not sure if I'll hear from him. This break felt different than the ones we've had in the past. Maybe things are better with his W.. maybe she asked for a D and it was the reality check he needed. I'm not sure. I know he was saying how much he loves me up until I stopped writing 2 days ago.

 

I'm fairly certain that with enough time, if I reached out to him.. he would come back. The question is.. do I want to do that to him, or myself?? I love him enough to always want what's best for him, and his happiness, even if that's not with me.

 

As for your AP.. I think by keeping the communication open, it's his way to keep the "fish biting", if you will. It never truly ends until you stop speaking to him. Even if it starts out as "just friendly".. Sooner or later the old, romantic speech and desires will resurface. And then it's just a continuance of the emotional A..

[carhill]

My .02 as a fMM:

 

1. The part about contact but never meeting is suspicious. I can't imagine a BS agreeing to that to 'save our marriage'.

 

2. If, and I'm unclear on that part, you and he continued seeing each other in person after the BS found out, it's even less likely she would agree to any contact, of any sort, at all.

 

3. You know him best but my experience has been that such mixed language is a tool to keep people hanging, generally onto a shred of hope. Hope is powerful stuff.

 

Since he left the door handle in your hand with the verbiage 'if you want', you can easily shut the door without fanfare simply by erasing him from your existence. Think of it as enabling him to save his marriage. What happens happens.

[MuddyFootprints]

I hesitate to speculate, but will suggest that he is still attached to you and not brave enough to cut the ties himself. I don't think he wants to hurt you, but he doesn't quite comprehend the painful position he puts you (and his wife) in by leaving the lines of communication open.

[whichwayisup]

That being said, we can still talk if you want but we can never meet again. I hope you understand."

His wife will not like it if you two are still talking. ex affair partners can't be friends or keep in touch. Neither of you will detach and it'll still be an EA, even if online or by phone. You need to let him go for good and cut all contact.

 

He doesn't want to be the bad guy and tell you 'goodbye'. He isn't going to contact you first, there's no need...And as you said, there's no need for you to reach out to him in the future. Though on some level he has told you he's done, he just wants you to do the rest.

 

So, do it!

 

Say goodbye to him, make your own closure by ending it with take care and please respect MY desire to stay away and not contact me. You are with your wife and family now so there's no point in keeping in touch, I need to move on with my life... Or something like that.

 

Don't send a gushing long letter to him.

[Mascara]

Why would you send him a gentle loving message? I often see ow on these forums breaking up with him by saying things like "I'll always love you" or "do what you need to, contact me if it doesn't work out" or "I don't to want to do this, but I care too much"

 

The reason that MM usually stay with the status quo is that many of them have selfish personalities, and they can't bear to be disliked. If he breaks up with you, or tells you he plans to stay with his wife, it's often because he can't bear to be the bad guy.

 

And he can't bear to be the bad guy with his mistress either. So he'll do his best to elicit a reaction from you that let's him know you don't hate him.

 

In short, most of these MM are quite content to live without their mistresses as long as they know she still cares for him.

 

I'm not saying react with anger. What they can't stand is indifference. "Yeah, this isn't working for me anymore, let's leave it there" and not "I will always love you and so will let you go"

[OWAmy]

Whichwayisup and Mascara have come the closest to explaining his behaviour.

 

He doesn't want to be the bad guy. You should take his cue and send that final message. That is what he wants you to do, he'll be hoping you pick up on it. Trust me.

 

I tried several ways to get xMM to say he wanted out of the affair, but he wouldn't do it. A lot of men are preoccupied with their reputation. They don't want people thinking badly of them.

 

In the end I did it. Personally it would have been much easier for me if he'd ended it. I kept it so simple: I stated I wanted a simpler (and better) life and the affair was not conducive to that. There were no loving words or hateful ones I told him that all those lovely things I ever said to him I meant and I hoped that was enough. And then asked him not to contact me and I would do the same. Goodbye x

 

Since then I did wish I had said more, but not now. I said enough.

 

Let him go completely. Don't leave the door open for any future communication. Remember how when you feel down and then you get a two line communication from him and you feel good? Remember how that boosts you up for all of five minutes? That is sad and pathetic that we are happy with so little.

[Livingeachday]

Totally agree with the last two posts - he just doesn't want to be the bad guy. Man are not that complicated - most of them are completely conflict avoidant. This is just another way of saying "It's not you - it's me but we can still be friends." - and we all knew even when we were 15 years old and heard it for the first time how sincere that was meant.

[hippetyhop]

I haven't heard from my AP for 2 days now. We haven't gone more than 2 days EVER without speaking.. The whole time of the A. No matter where he was in the world. (He's an entertainer and travels a lot)

 

I'm not sure if I'll hear from him. This break felt different than the ones we've had in the past. Maybe things are better with his W.. maybe she asked for a D and it was the reality check he needed. I'm not sure. I know he was saying how much he loves me up until I stopped writing 2 days ago.

 

I'm fairly certain that with enough time, if I reached out to him.. he would come back. The question is.. do I want to do that to him, or myself?? I love him enough to always want what's best for him, and his happiness, even if that's not with me.

 

As for your AP.. I think by keeping the communication open, it's his way to keep the "fish biting", if you will. It never truly ends until you stop speaking to him. Even if it starts out as "just friendly".. Sooner or later the old, romantic speech and desires will resurface. And then it's just a continuance of the emotional A..

 

The D reality check could be it. My MM had that this weekend when he was away for 4 days (although he was back/forth with kids things).

 

That is the day old question--do you want to go through this again? Are you ready to leave it all behind?

 

Your feelings are the same towards him. What makes him happy is important to me.

[hippetyhop]

My .02 as a fMM:

 

1. The part about contact but never meeting is suspicious. I can't imagine a BS agreeing to that to 'save our marriage'.

 

2. If, and I'm unclear on that part, you and he continued seeing each other in person after the BS found out, it's even less likely she would agree to any contact, of any sort, at all.

 

3. You know him best but my experience has been that such mixed language is a tool to keep people hanging, generally onto a shred of hope. Hope is powerful stuff.

 

Since he left the door handle in your hand with the verbiage 'if you want', you can easily shut the door without fanfare simply by erasing him from your existence. Think of it as enabling him to save his marriage. What happens happens.

 

Thank you all for the responses. Its been one rough morning..I'll fill everyone in.

 

Side note: I don't think BS has ANY idea he reached out to me to let me know he can talk to me but not see me. I don't think she said to him "tell her you can talk to her, but not see her ever again."

 

I think that was said on his own. He said that last summer when we had a fall out.

 

I don't know how much about 'us' she knows. I think she knows he was

involved, but didn't know to what extent.

 

Yes, hope is powerful, but not if I take the first step to move on and we're just friends.

 

This is what was said (I know some won't agree and think I should have been more aggressive/told him to "f" off or whatnot. I think it'll be a new non-intimate level):

 

I didn't answer him from last night. He texted me this morning saying "Good Morning." I told him 'morning' and that I got his text but needed time to thought process it. He said he wanted to make sure I am "okay" and then asked, "am I?" This is my response:

 

Me:

"Listen XXXX..I love you and I always have and I always will. Of course I respect your decision and I understand your stance completely. I hope you are genuinely happy within about your decision and its what you want. That is what matters. I will always be happy for you no matter what. This is what you need and respect that.

 

Him: Only time will tell if its the best decision. That's perfect; we shared a lot and I don't want to throw it away

 

Me: I don't either. You mean a lot to me. I hope you are doing this for you. Of course, I have never been married but I do understand the stressors of wanting to make it work. If you ever want to contact me to vent, I'll always be all ears for you.

 

Him: Yes, its a very complicated situation. And many things have to change to make it work but I have to try. And I hope to talk to you more than every once in awhile. I love and care for you as well. Always will. I'm not sure if that makes it better or worse. But I wanted you to know that.

 

Me: I'm not oblivious. I figured it was more complicated than a little spat; that is why I gave you space. All you can do is try and at least you said you did.

 

Him: That's true.

 

Me: I don't know if it makes it better or worse. We have a kick ass chemistry and bond. That's for certain. I hope to talk to you more than here and there too.

 

Him: I would like that. That we do..and I still find you sexy as hell =

 

Me: And you'll always be my sexy papi...even when you are 50 and 40lbs overweight LOL, jk (joke between us). Even then, I won't judge.

 

My thoughts:

 

Platonic level since we are both in agreeance with it and it was his choice. He's at peace I didn't entirely blow him off. I think this will fade in the wind.

 

He is right. Only time will tell. But--can he keep it platonic with me? Will he still keep in contact? Is it his way of not feeling guilty if he only shoots me a text every few weeks without having any type of true attachment to me (if that makes sense)?

 

Re. his marriage: Maybe this is what he needs to give him marriage another try. Or, is this way of keeping his marriage and in a sense me although its not physical and probably won't even be kept emotional? Thus, his way of avoiding divorce.

Edited July 8, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[jwi71]

You're deluding yourself.

Or do all your platonic friends say how sexy you are?

 

If you TRULY WANT the truth - its easy to get.

 

Call his W. Ask HER if its ok that you and her H remain "platonic" friends.

 

You won't of course. Why? Real question for you.

 

Why not? If his W indeed has blessed this "platonic and never shall you two meet friendship" - she won;t be offended at all by your questions. Its perfectly reasonable - because, as Carhill said, its an odd move for the W to make - who WOULDN'T want to verify that?

 

But - you already know the truth now don't you?

Edited July 8, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Redact superfluous quote

[OWAmy]

Sooner or later you will realise the importance of no contact and why so many on here recommend.

 

2.5yrs ago I broke up with xMM in person. The following day I sent what was intended to be a final email, but the door was left ajar. He replied saying that 'maybe one day we could start afresh for all the right reasons' and off the back of that line I was back in.

 

This time I did it properly.

 

I see it this way - sneaking around hoping that no one he knows sees him, watching him shower every little trace of me off him eventually made me realise I don't want no part of a life in the shadows. That is no life at all. If its not real, it's not worth having. I don't want to be a fantasy any more!

[Owl]

Affairs don't just fade off into oblivion.

 

If you continue to maintain any kind of interactions with him...you're going to continue to give yourself just enough of a "fix" of that affair drug that you'll never break free of the addiction.

 

In fact, the pain will become more and more intolerable, until you both cave in and resume the affair again.

 

NC = cold turkey from the affair addiction.

 

And that's pretty much the only way you beat a psychological addiction...which is precisely what this is.

 

You don't/can't wean yourself off of this slowly and easily. It nearly never works.

[hippetyhop]

JWI:

 

The platonic question was more rhetorical. I should have noted that.

 

I never said his wife blessed a platonic friendship. I said she likely doesn't have any idea he reached out to me, or whatnot. I do think she knows something is going on, but not sure of the extent or with whom.

 

I can't contact his W as I don't have her number, email, etc. Just as you said... we all know what her answer will be.

 

Owl and OWAmy:

 

You really don't think A's just fade away? I'm not sure if he'll ever contact me again. If he does-it won't be for a long while. But what happens when I find someone new? I'm ready to move on and do such a thing.

Edited July 8, 2014 by hippetyhop

[Owl]

Owl and OWAmy:

 

You really don't think A's just fade away? I'm not sure if he'll ever contact me again. If he does-it won't be for a long while. But what happens when I find someone new? I'm ready to move on and do such a thing.

 

Look at my join date.

 

Been here a little while. Seen perhaps literally thousands of similar posts/situations in that time frame.

 

Between this site, a few others that I also post on, and some long term life experience....

 

Is it POSSIBLE that an affair could theoretically 'fade away'? Sure...someone wins the lottery too. But the odds don't make it a productive investment to try to live off of for most of us.

 

The vast, vast majority of time, these situations start right where you're at now. Asking this same question. You'll hear what we say, but you'll hope against hope that you'll be the exception...that there's something 'special' about your own situation that makes it possible/probable when we disagree...and you'll continue on trying to do it the way that you hope will work.

 

And it will continue to fail off and on for some length of time, until you or him reach a new level of frustration/anger/hurt...and finally find the strength to go fully NC. Once one or both of you reach a point where you're TRULY 'over it'...you implement NC...and then finally stick to it...it ends.

[hippetyhop]

I take it if I would take a step back and less contact/put my guard up then it wouldn't help either?

 

 

 

He told me he wants to see me happy. I told him to focus on himself right now as he has a lot on his plate and not to worry about me. He said "its all good." I'd like to know what he has to try to do to save his M and how talking to me helps that.

Edited July 8, 2014 by hippetyhop

[Owl]

I take it if I would take a step back and less contact/put my guard up then it wouldn't help either?

 

 

 

He told me he wants to see me happy. I told him to focus on himself right now as he has a lot on his plate and not to worry about me. He said "its all good." I'd like to know what he has to try to do to save his M and how talking to me helps that.

 

It doesn't help his marriage.

 

It helps him assure himself that he's got you as his fallback plan for either when his marriage does indeed fail, or when he wants to resume the affair with you.

 

Tell him that he doesn't need to "see" you happy. He simply needs to focus on the goal he's set before himself...rebuilding/repairing/reconciling his marriage. To do that successfully, he has to remove you from his life, from his focus.

 

Tell him that his options are simple...focus on you, or focus on the marriage. The two goals are diametrically opposed...doing one means losing the other. It's that simple. That's how affairs always end...unless he divorces her but chooses not to be with anyone.

 

FULL DISCLOSURE HERE: I'm a formerly betrayed spouse. My wife had an EA about 10 years ago with someone...we've long since successfully reconciled and rebuilt our marriage. With that said...I hold no ill will towards anyone, and have often posted advice that OW/OM have found useful in working through issues like this. I just wanted to make sure that you knew that up front. Realize that I have no vested interest in whether or not the affair that you're inolved in continues nor ends...I'm simply posting advice based on my experience to help you work out a resolution.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Owl

[Livingeachday]

Sorry to be blunt but my first thought when I read this text exchange was: Platonic friendship my a**!

 

You two are not leaving a door open - it's more like open flood gates with a tsunami on the horizon. All he is effectively doing is keeping you on the back burner until the dust settles at home. And do I blame him for this - no cos you are not just enabling him to do that - your messages encourage him to do that exactly. You have told him in no uncertain terms no that he can do whatever he wants and you'll always be there. Horray - what more can he ask for?

 

Non-intimate? He'll be back for physical meetings in no time - he is just managing your expectations for now. And than it will be just a slip up because "I can't resist you and we got that crazy chemistry" but "As I told you before we can just be platonic friends cos I told you the deal and this was just because I was weak." and you go back into your corner until he takes you off the shelf to play with you again when he feels like it.

 

He has got you exactly where you suit him best now - on the waiting line for whenever he feels like it with no expectations allowed cos he told you he wants to fix his marriage.

 

You are ready to move on? "I love you, I always have and I always will" doesn't sound like somebody ready to move on for me - you are lying to yourself! You know you have to keep your expectations in line right now to be a "good" OW and your are trying to rationalize the situation to yourself.

You only have a chance to move on if you let go - completely! "But what happens when I find someone new - I'm ready to move on and do such a thing" - sounds more like a unvoiced threat to your OM to me than a sincere promise to yourself.

 

Sorry if I come across harsh but I sometimes could just bang my head against a wall if I read a story like that.

 

Hippetyhop I sincerely hope that this will work out just as you hope and that it will just fade away and you can really move on.

[OWAmy]

One of my first posts was on ending on good terms and going no contact.

 

Hey I bet most of us on here have gone thought the same thought process. My thinking was that I could be friends with him, but what's the point when it is still secret and behind his wife's back?

 

Affairs are just so bad. You know in those 3.5yrs we never lost that just met feeling and intoxication with one another. I mean how unnatural is that when you compare it to a real relationship? That's the feeling that confuses and that is the addiction.

 

I started falling out of addiction with mine some time ago. He always said that he would genuinely want me to be the happiest that I could be (and I think he meant that) but at the same time would be saying he wouldn't see me if he thought we would never be together...at some point!!

 

Words play such an important part in affair. I would actually go so far as to say most of the stuff I said was utter bs too. My affair was slightly different in that I knew in my heart we would never be together. That created a massive issue for me as I continuously questioned my involvement in it. I feel that me and him were totally joint partners in the whole affair. Glad I'm out of it.

 

I won't let anyone in my life now under a clandestine arrangement.

 

Let him go back to his wife free from the affair baggage. You on the other hand have a fabulous opportunity to meet someone without any guilt etc hanging over.