todreaminblue Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Just want to clarify: I mean constantly seeking happiness, pleasure, good feelings isn't God's plan for us. Challenges can be very spiritual experiences that bring us closer to God, so they're definitely part of our spiritual journeys. God does want us to be happy in Him. Being happy isn't wrong, in any way. Paul said he has learned to be content when he had much and when he had little. To me, this means that when God chooses to bless us with something, we should appreciate it and be content. I think Paul was telling us that being happy isn't wrong . the admonition of paul ...i find happiness in lovely things ...in words of inspiration of happiness of joy of love and all things in between i have endured and will continue to endure the bad things knowing how much good there is out there for me ....for my famlly....for all.......i seek a full ness of joy above happiness even more than happiness i seek a full ness of joy We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things. praiseworthy is and always brings happiness......deb 2 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Come to think of it M30, we have discussed this before in other threads, and this was the most thread appropriate I could see to voice this observation. I notice on social media a lot of inspirational posts and sayings. Not that there is anything wrong with that, although I don't see many (if any, just giving the benefit of the doubt) that get to the core of sin, that call out sin for what it is and calling for repentance. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) Come to think of it M30, we have discussed this before in other threads, and this was the most thread appropriate I could see to voice this observation. I notice on social media a lot of inspirational posts and sayings. Not that there is anything wrong with that, although I don't see many (if any, just giving the benefit of the doubt) that get to the core of sin, that call out sin for what it is and calling for repentance. Truth doesn't sell...nor does it suit Facebook. Keep in mind with the following Scripture, God is talking to his OWN PEOPLE, not atheists and unbelievers: This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord. They keep saying to those who despise me, ‘The Lord says: You will have peace.’ And to all who follow the stubbornness of their hearts they say, ‘No harm will come to you.’ But which of them has stood in the council of the Lord to see or to hear his word? Who has listened and heard his word? See, the storm of the Lord will burst out in wrath, a whirlwind swirling down on the heads of the wicked. The anger of the Lord will not turn back until he fully accomplishes the purposes of his heart. In days to come you will understand it clearly. I did not send these prophets, yet they have run with their message; I did not speak to them, yet they have prophesied. But if they had stood in my council, they would have proclaimed my words to my people and would have turned them from their evil ways and from their evil deeds. (Jeremiah 23:16-22 NIV) Edited July 14, 2014 by M30USA Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Truth doesn't sell...nor does it suit Facebook. Keep in mind with the following Scripture, God is talking to his OWN PEOPLE, not atheists and unbelievers: This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord. They keep saying to those who despise me, ‘The Lord says: You will have peace.’ And to all who follow the stubbornness of their hearts they say, ‘No harm will come to you.’ But which of them has stood in the council of the Lord to see or to hear his word? Who has listened and heard his word? See, the storm of the Lord will burst out in wrath, a whirlwind swirling down on the heads of the wicked. The anger of the Lord will not turn back until he fully accomplishes the purposes of his heart. In days to come you will understand it clearly. I did not send these prophets, yet they have run with their message; I did not speak to them, yet they have prophesied. But if they had stood in my council, they would have proclaimed my words to my people and would have turned them from their evil ways and from their evil deeds. (Jeremiah 23:16-22 NIV) However, this was Israel that was following false gods. During this time, false prophets were telling Israel that God was not going to cause them to lose to Babylon, meanwhile, was telling them they had to surrender to survive. They threw him in a pit over it. God isn't reprimanding Israel for being positive. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 However, this was Israel that was following false gods. During this time, false prophets were telling Israel that God was not going to cause them to lose to Babylon, meanwhile, was telling them they had to surrender to survive. They threw him in a pit over it. God isn't reprimanding Israel for being positive. What is a false god? Money, hedonism, sex, drugs...even good things like family and health. Those are false gods. And the quoted Scripture is a warning to those who "follow the stubbornness of their hearts". It doesn't matter if a person calls themselves a Christian or not, when we follow our own ways above the ways of God, this verse applies to us. As for the "false hope" spoken of in this verse, he is saying that when people follow the stubbornness of their hearts (Christian or not), prophets are actually LYING when they attempt to be positive and say, just like the verse, "No harm will come to you." Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) Anyway, I'll just get back to what a previous poster said. Joy and contentment in all things? Good. Positive thinking (which really equates to "naming and claiming" only good things at the exclusion of suffering and trials)? Come on. I just view that as unrealistic and inconsistent with everything I know of Scripture and God's plan for this CURRENT world. Jesus promised his disciples that they can expect false accusations and persecution, not happy times. But notice he said to rejoice over this. Why? Not because it's causing them to be happy (it's not) but because it means it's a sign they are true followers of him and their reward in heaven is great. Edited July 14, 2014 by M30USA 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 What is a false god? Money, hedonism, sex, drugs...even good things like family and health. Those are false gods. And the quoted Scripture is a warning to those who "follow the stubbornness of their hearts". It doesn't matter if a person calls themselves a Christian or not, when we follow our own ways above the ways of God, this verse applies to us. As for the "false hope" spoken of in this verse, he is saying that when people follow the stubbornness of their hearts (Christian or not), prophets are actually LYING when they attempt to be positive and say, just like the verse, "No harm will come to you." A false god is something you place ABOVE god, money in and of itself is not evil...it's the love of money. Family is a blessing from God, it's not evil. The quoted scripture was a warning to Israel from Jeremiah. If you were going to quote about "itching ears", I would be more in agreement. I am guessing you've been watching Joel Osteen again? If you are trying to tell us Joel Osteen is a false prophet (he's not claiming to be a prophet at all), I think that is pushing it. If you are going to say his sermons are weak, I would probably agree (on some areas). Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 You say family is a blessing from God, and you are correct. But blessings can still become idols and gods. Look at the mafia. Family is VERY important to them. Probably more important than it is to you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 If you are trying to tell us Joel Osteen is a false prophet (he's not claiming to be a prophet at all), I think that is pushing it. If you are going to say his sermons are weak, I would probably agree (on some areas). Give me one example of a false prophet. If you don't like to "name names", then tell me what qualifies a person as a false prophet. Surely you know that false prophets use the very name of God and his Son and claim to follow them, right? Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) You say family is a blessing from God, and you are correct. But blessings can still become idols and gods. Look at the mafia. Family is VERY important to them. Probably more important than it is to you. Not really...I would never over money Give me one example of a false prophet. If you don't like to "name names", then tell me what qualifies a person as a false prophet. Hananiah... Then Hananiah the prophet took the yoke from off the prophet Jeremiah's neck, and brake it...Then said the prophet Jeremiah unto Hananiah the prophet, Hear now, Hananiah; The Lord hath not sent thee; but thou makest this people to trust in a lie. Therefore thus saith the Lord; Behold, I will cast thee from off the face of the earth: this year thou shalt die, because thou hast taught rebellion against the Lord. Edited July 14, 2014 by TheFinalWord Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 Fair enough. But you have the luxury of Scriptural retrospection. Can you think of any false prophets today? Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Fair enough. But you have the luxury of Scriptural retrospection. Can you think of any false prophets today? David Koresh? A lot of these TV psychics that claim their ability to divine the future is from God. Do you mean TV evangelists? In the realm of TV evangelists, there are some that are bad teachers, but a lot of that would go away naturally if Christians studied their bibles, independently, and not just go along with the "Oz effect" 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 TFW, what's your take on the difference between prophets and teachers? Are they the same? I guess I should be using the phrase "false teachers". I personally have a very specific definition of prophet more akin to the original usage in Scripture. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Anyway, I'll just get back to what a previous poster said. Joy and contentment in all things? Good. Positive thinking (which really equates to "naming and claiming" only good things at the exclusion of suffering and trials)? Come on. I just view that as unrealistic and inconsistent with everything I know of Scripture and God's plan for this CURRENT world. Jesus promised his disciples that they can expect false accusations and persecution, not happy times. But notice he said to rejoice over this. Why? Not because it's causing them to be happy (it's not) but because it means it's a sign they are true followers of him and their reward in heaven is great. It's interesting that immediately after getting saved, the couple that discipled me took me directly into the matter of heresy. One of those would be "name it and claim it", which is basically, if you want it you can have it...they forget the most important part, "according to God's will". For me, I really don't think God cares if I have a multi-million dollar house or a 50K house...I have shelter, the 50K house is sufficient. Same goes with anything else. The key is, according to "God's will" and what He wants, not mine. This last year has been an experience. Discovering what is really going on in the world "stuff" seems less important.. I now find it interesting that some churches (rather large influential churches) began to teach three or so years ago about wealth transfer. Basically that God would "transfer" money from the "evil" and give it to "His" people...hummm wonder where that narrative came from. Not that God does not do that, there were times, mostly in the O/T where God did do this, today I see greed as the motivation for this "narrative". 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 TFW, what's your take on the difference between prophets and teachers? Are they the same? I guess I should be using the phrase "false teachers". I personally have a very specific definition of prophet more akin to the original usage in Scripture. I agree, there's a difference. I'll have to lay it out later. Off hand, I think someone that tries to teach another method besides Christ for salvation or contrasts any of the central tenants of Christianity (e.g. trinity, etc.). A lot of teachers have inconsistent teaching, but I'm not sure that necessarily makes them false. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 You say family is a blessing from God, and you are correct. But blessings can still become idols and gods. Look at the mafia. Family is VERY important to them. Probably more important than it is to you. I had to crack up because this is very much the truth... Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 ....another rather late night thought. The terms positive and negative when used in terms of emotions/behavior/thinking have always sounded very new age. Maybe terms such as healthy and toxic give a better description in a Biblical sense. Biblically most emotions are healthy (as long as it lines up with Gods word), whereas according to positive thinking, some of these would be considered negative. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 ....another rather late night thought. The terms positive and negative when used in terms of emotions/behavior/thinking have always sounded very new age. Maybe terms such as healthy and toxic give a better description in a Biblical sense. Biblically most emotions are healthy (as long as it lines up with Gods word), whereas according to positive thinking, some of these would be considered negative. I agree that many emotions are healthy (if they are in line with God's word, as you said). I think sometimes, in psychology terms, positive and negative mean different things. Like positive means "something there" and negative means "not there". So positive behaviors means doing something...like jostling a leg while nervous. And negative behavior might be getting really still while nervous. In these cases, I think the terms sound weird because they have different meanings than we're used to . Don't know if that could have contributed to what you're talking about or not, pih . I just know that when I hear those terms used that way, it takes a second to remember what they mean, lol. But yeah, emotions are a good thing! And they're something I'm very familiar with (I can be a little emotional sometimes ). Link to post Share on other sites
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