Her [pre-] divorce affair vs my post split ONS and divorce R

[Bittersweetie]

How do you expect her to be open and honest with you going forward, if you insist that there are things she "doesn't need to know" about you?

 

I have to agree here with Owl's point, as a fWW.

 

During our R, at first all of the openness and honesty was on me. But as we entered a new stage, both me and my H were open and honest. My H shared everything he had been holding inside, the things he was thinking about, feelings about the past, etc.

 

Shouldn't one start as they mean to go on...with full honesty on both sides? That is the basis of a healthy relationship, regardless of the past, if both parties are intent on moving forward.

 

Good luck.

[Owl]

IF she has no rights...she's an idiot to resume a relationship with him.

 

This isn't about rights...this is about trust, and communication, and honesty.

 

All of which are lacking in DKT's decision not to tell her anything.

 

This has nothing to do with HER AFFAIR...it has everything to do with building an honest relationship between them.

 

There is no such thing as a 'free pass' for anyone in a marriage.

[Owl]

So DK, I would urge you to stand your ground and not give her any info. You did nothing wrong and do not let a single person tell you otherwise or that it doesn't matter if this happened when you weren't together, because it absolutely does. If you give in and tell her then that is just going to set the tone for the future of your relationship and the tone won't be good. You did nothing wrong..nor have you done anything to indicate you would cheat on her or anything of the sort. You even called the woman right in front of her and told her you guys were going NC. I'd really be rethinking a lot of things if that is not enough for her.

 

And if she posted here...and this was his choice...I'd tell her she'd be a fool to resume a relationship with him. I'd tell her to cut her losses and walk.

[DKT3]

Owl, I am and always have been open with Lovin. She knows about the relationship, she doesn't know the in depth details which is what she wants. This didn't start with the contact from the ex, its been something she has been after since before we were back together.

 

She does post here, but for you to suggest she walks because I don't think she "DESERVES" information from when we were divorced is crazy. Its like going into a new relationship and demanding all the sexual details of your partners life.

[MuddyFootprints]

Nobody is suggesting he did anything wrong with the other relationships. It is the concept that "It's none of your business" from either partner that creates huge problems in a supposedly committed/recommitted relationship.

[carhill]

Its like going into a new relationship and demanding all the sexual details of your partners life.

 

That's a really good point, relevant to compatibility, and it respects what has gone before is the past and this is now. For all intents and purposes, it is a new relationship.

 

I'm a bit confused though, as you mentioned your MC and their opinion to share all. That makes sense during a M about matters relevant to the M, and a good MC will be focused on the client, which is the M, not the partners. You're not M, correct? Therefore, the tenets of MC don't apply. However, should you become engaged or married again, after resolving the issues currently on your plate, then the client would again have play and priority.

 

What you have here is nothing more than a dating situation. You and she did whatever you and she did and got a divorce. You both did what you did during and after that divorce, as free agents amongst the billions of humans on the planet.

 

She can certainly expect anything she wishes and feel any way she wishes. If there is no meeting of the minds, there isn't. If there is, there is. That's what compatibility is all about.

 

IMO, no rush. Clarify your own personal boundaries and stick to them. If she's there at the end, she is. If not, not. Good luck.

[DKT3]

Nobody is suggesting he did anything wrong with the other relationships. It is the concept that "It's none of your business" from either partner that creates huge problems in a supposedly committed/recommitted relationship.

 

We wasn't a couple, there was no US. There was a me and a her. I've never once asked her about anything she did during this time frame.

 

Listen, my reason for not sharing all the details are its serves no purpose. The details will only hurt her and give her more vivid pictures.

 

Its not about me deciding what she can and can't handle, I honestly don't believe its her business. Maybe I'm missing the point here.

[MuddyFootprints]

I guess in my mind it's a matter of sharing our lives, our experiences, our lessons, and our growth.

 

"It's none of her/his business." feels like a shut down and a shut out when it should be another opportunity to get to know each other, deeply and most intimately.

[carhill]

Its not about me deciding what she can and can't handle, I honestly don't believe its her business. Maybe I'm missing the point here.

 

It just occurred to me that language could be of assistance.

 

'I feel uncomfortable sharing details of my past relationships as they are personal'

 

OP, in a way I can identify with your exW, as I had an affair and my exW and I got divorced because of it, generally, and she took up with a new guy about the same time we filed and he's been living with her since. If I asked such questions of her, she'd just laugh in my face, as would most women I've known in life.

 

I've found that to be very instructive. They know their personal boundaries and their love lives are none of my business. Up to you how you feel. You do, however, have choices regarding communicating those feelings. There isn't one 'right' or 'wrong' way.

[DKT3]

That's a really good point, relevant to compatibility, and it respects what has gone before is the past and this is now. For all intents and purposes, it is a new relationship.

 

I'm a bit confused though, as you mentioned your MC and their opinion to share all. That makes sense during a M about matters relevant to the M, and a good MC will be focused on the client, which is the M, not the partners. You're not M, correct? Therefore, the tenets of MC don't apply. However, should you become engaged or married again, after resolving the issues currently on your plate, then the client would again have play and priority.

 

What you have here is nothing more than a dating situation. You and she did whatever you and she did and got a divorce. You both did what you did during and after that divorce, as free agents amongst the billions of humans on the planet.

 

She can certainly expect anything she wishes and feel any way she wishes. If there is no meeting of the minds, there isn't. If there is, there is. That's what compatibility is all about.

 

IMO, no rush. Clarify your own personal boundaries and stick to them. If she's there at the end, she is. If not, not. Good luck.

 

I don't think this is a deal breaker for her. I think its about fear. I left that relationship in part because I couldn't get over my ex wife and it wasn't fair to the new woman that I was feeling the pull back. Yet she fears that this other woman was my perfect match and has even posted that here at one point.

[carhill]

You're not responsible for her fears. She is. It's her issue to work through. Guard against the male proclivity to 'fix' everything. Women do fine on their own. She'll figure it out.

[DKT3]

I guess in my mind it's a matter of sharing our lives, our experiences, our lessons, and our growth.

 

"It's none of her/his business." feels like a shut down and a shut out when it should be another opportunity to get to know each other, deeply and most intimately.

 

I get this, I really do. We have become really close. Funny you said shut down, because that was my go to in the past. I haven't shut down on her about this. We have had several long talks on the matter and remain in a gridlock.

[Owl6118]

Its not about me deciding what she can and can't handle, I honestly don't believe its her business. Maybe I'm missing the point here.

 

I think, possibly, there is something being missed here, but perhaps not the point you are thinking of.

 

I agree with you and many of the other posters that there is nothing wrong with your relationship, and that subsequent partners--even a former wife--are not entitled to a details in the same way a betrayed spouse is.

 

But this sounds like the struggle over the rings all over again--the one that kinda got superseded by Lovin's pregnancy. This is basically a problem of empathy more than anything else.

 

What I do think I hear is both of you hearing your own feelings much better than you are hearing one anothers.

 

For your part:

 

I hear your strong sense of boundaries. I think your boundaries are right, but, there is an almost angry fierceness with which you are defending them, which is probably the same fierce self protectiveness against hurt that caused you to maintain such a firm distance even as you and Lovin began to reunite.

 

Could you set aside the fierceness for a moment and work on putting yourself in Lovin's shoes? As I understand it, for whatever reasons, she did not come out of the fog until you served her papers and left. But when she did come out she returned to you emotionally, and kept herself working to fix herself and be safe for you and win you back for years after that. During THAT time, when this was her goal, your new relationship was a threat and Office Girl her deadly rival.

 

So from her point of view, this is not the same as asking for gory details of a partner before you two met. It is concern about a rival who came within a hair's bredth of denying her the chance to win you back.

 

What I don't here you doing is valditing the reality of Lovin's fear and insecurity as real TO HER, and seeking compromise to put her at ease.

 

Have you asked her not, "What detials do you want," but "Honey, what do you fear about this in the dark of the night?" DOes she feel the sex was better? The emotional connections stonger, more special, or just different in a way she can't match? If you could honestly help her draw out the underlying fear and vocalize it, you might find that there something you can tell her that addresses her fear wihtout violating your legitmate boundaries and your legitimate loyalty to Office Girl, who is still someone you cared for who did you no wrong.

 

And for her part--she has not spoken for herself here, so I go out on a limb--she has perhaps focussed on her pain and on what she thinks she wants that will sooth the anxieties, and then demanded the want, the detials, rather than sharing with you the pain, and acknowledging the legitimacy of your privacy, but asking you nevertheless if there is a way you could help her with the pain. She perhaps needs to reframe her demand as a request, and focus the request on the nature of her insecurity with an open-ended plea for compassionate help, not a set of demands on what she has decided solo she needs.

 

I hope you guys know your story has always moved me. I wish you both well, and I think you have great love for one another. But I think both of you, still, have a lot of work to do on listening to one another with empathy. Becuase of the unusual nature of your story, you are, in some ways, again very soon after D Day--there was this years long hiatus between Lovin coming out of the fog and you choosing to reengage with her post-fog. But it is almost in some ways like that time doesn't exist--you are now back in the relationship, and processing feelings and learning to communicate almost as though you had not divorced, and as though your are learning to trust each other with her fresh out of the fog and you having just chose to try to open your heart to her.

 

Be good to each other. Try to listen. Go easy. And make fewer demands and refusals, and more requests of each other, not for things or details in specific, but just for love and understanding and help.

 

I wish you well and hope you have a joyful home into which to bring your new child together.

[JS84]

Its like going into a new relationship and demanding all the sexual details of your partners life.

 

Have to admit this is kind of how I see it. I'm not sure why people think you owe her any details whatsoever regarding your relationships or sexual activities post divorce.

[underpants]

Why did your intense relationship with the other woman end?

[DKT3]

Why did your intense relationship with the other woman end?

 

I spoke about it earlier in the thread. She wanted marriage and kids and pushed pretty hard for it after a short time together. Instead of leading her on by letting her believe we were actaully heading towards that goal I ended the relationship. In part because I was still very much in love with my ex, and we were simply in different places. I was about a decade older and already had kids. Kids with two different women was never something I was interested in.

[underpants]

Ahh okay,

 

Yea, probably would never work with young lady, as you discerned, and let her know. So cool.

 

I still think you are building on shaky ground though. Maybe you like it like that though. Some people like that.

 

All the best.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

With all due respect I think the issue lies with Lovin. She has no right to the information...they were divorced.

 

Her reaction however, screams of insecurity and fear. Dkt has chosen lovin, did the no contact thing...they are about to welcome another child....he is 100% in this. Her fear and insecurity is irrational and mis placed. Clearly there is still much work she needs to do in IC to understand why she cannot trust what dkt is telling her and a bit about her projecting, maybe. He is not th one who broke trustin the relationship.

[whatatangledweb]

I think I understand where you are coming from. Her wanting all the intimate details seems more like she feels like a BS. Which if she was then wanting all the nitty gritty would make sense. But you didn't cheat on her. Your marriage was done and over with. I would give an overall picture of your relationships after the divorce, but not intimate details. That would make me feel as though I were guilty of something.

[gettingstronger]

I feel like if you guys are going to reconcile than nothing should be out of bounds to talk about-

 

My husband often asks whats going through my mind and I tell him- even if its mean or painful-sometimes I think he would be better off not knowing that at that minute I want to punch him in the throat, but we don't have secrets-

 

I think back to before we were married and we had a long talk about our previous sexual experiences-not sure why-

 

I guess, to me there should be no secrets or off limits conversations in a marriage-isn't lack of real, honest communication part of what got us all in this mess in the first place?

[bubbaganoosh]

If it was me and she starts pestering you about it, then say OK, sit down, then proceed to tell her that before I tell you about the girl I was sleeping with AFTER WE SPLIT AND DIVORCED, you tell me everything in detail about how you were sleeping with another man WHILE WE WERE MARRIED, and tell her you want everything from start to finish and after she tell you, no doubt what she only wants to tell you, then you tell her about you seeing a woman after you were divorced and keep making that point that you and her were divorced.

 

Then after that, you should remind her that if there's any lack of trust it you trusting her. Let her know that she was the one that couldn't keep her ass in her pants and she broke the vows and she ruined the marriage and she's the one that needs to prove to you that she can be faithful, not you.

 

Remember, she cheated on you, not the other way around and I got a feeling that she's going to do whatever she could to turn the tables on you. Don't let that happen. She has to take responsibility for her poor choices and lack of commitment.

[dichotomy]

I think you did shut down your ex GF and thats whats important.

 

Honestly the ONS and especially your GF after divorce or any other women you were involved with after you divorced - discussing those women - that is the equivalent to the debate we have here about people about to get married or in LTR ... wanting to ask about details of past lovers.

 

Most people here advise not getting in to juicy details about ex lovers while you are with your new SO...... I mean I suppose there is a right to some basic information - like if your ex's are around town, at work, or on FB with you or something.... but discussing the the real details of old lovers.... usually leads to heart break jealousy and insecurity.

 

I mean what exactly is she asking you to tell her about your between marriage romantic life with GF's? Details about sex? Details about thw women personally (like private stuff about their lives likes dislikes fears), or what? What exactly does your reboot wife need to know?

Edited July 10, 2014 by dichotomy

[beach]

The fact remains - you ended it with the other gal.

 

That's obvious. But the issue is that Lovin needs some things from you now.

 

This relationship has opened up. Lovin has opened up the lines of communication. You can create a halt to the level of honesty - or you can get vulnerable and lay it all out there.

 

Good balance means you both are sharing things that make you vulnerable (and uncomfortable). It also includes giving and receiving.

 

What happens after you put info out there will either help you grow (hopefully) or possibly create a short term resentment that you two will need to work THROUGH to the other side.

 

This is what healthy relationships look like...

 

 

You can with hold info from her that she feels she needs. But that alone is not very different than when she kept her feelings a secret many years ago from you. The secrecy is what harms any relationship.

 

 

My vote is to lay it out there to be dissected and sifted through. I think you two are strong enough to discuss the details of your old GF and to put it to rest.

 

 

Handing Lovin some peace of mind now - is an act of love. It is growth for the relationship to heal further.

 

Just my 2 cents...

[jwi71]

We wasn't a couple, there was no US. There was a me and a her. I've never once asked her about anything she did during this time frame.

 

We already KNOW you don't care - that isn't the issue.

The issue is she DOES care about this.

 

Listen, my reason for not sharing all the details are its serves no purpose. The details will only hurt her and give her more vivid pictures.

 

Its not about me deciding what she can and can't handle, I honestly don't believe its her business. Maybe I'm missing the point here.

 

Oh come on.

You say you aren't "deciding what she can and can't handle" right after you decide it serves [her] no purpose and would hurt [her].

 

Hellooooooo....

 

You DO realize that is EXACTLY what you are doing - deciding what she can and can't handle - what's even more egregious about it is she is specifically asking - meaning SHE believes she can "handle it".

 

Does she have a right to hear it? No, she likely does not.

Do I AGREE that those "details" serve NO useful purpose? Yes I do.

 

However, the fear is this becomes a point of contention and resentment. Would having this "fester" be a good or bad thing for your R?

 

So...what is more important? Protecting "your turf" or attempting to meet her need? In protecting your turf, and it is your RIGHT, do you create a wall between you? A barrier to intimacy. A hindrance to moving forward.

 

How many talks have you about NOT telling? How long? Have you spent MORE time and energy in this "not telling" than if you had actually told?

 

My vote - tell. Yes, its not her right. No, the stupid details don;t matter. Yes, you have no individual compunction to do so - but as a COUPLE, you d_mn sure do.

 

I would think telling, giving her what she wants and ending it has better long term outcomes than not.

[HereNorThere]

It seems like she's used psychological projection to make it seem like you had an affair. You didn't betray her, so you shouldn't have to pay the price of a WS. Whenever it's brought up, you just have to remind her that anything that happened was a consequence of HER actions and drop it. You gave her the gift of reconciliation and if that is not enough for her, she will have to deal with it. You owe her nothing. Do not her let someone use emotional manipulation to make you pay the price for their failures.

Edited July 10, 2014 by HereNorThere