Her [pre-] divorce affair vs my post split ONS and divorce R

[aliveagain]

The two of you are about to share the greatest experience that two people can share together, a child. This is not the time to withhold information or allow information to cause a crack in the foundation of your relationship. There is no winner in this situation. DKT3, she is nesting and part of her preparations include the removal of any doubt as to why you are with her, withholding information about another woman still says you are choosing OW over her no different than when she lied to protect OM. She needs to feel that she is first and only. Just my opinion but if one of you doesn't move and end this stalemate, your relationship will suffer for it. The birth of your child will have this dark cloud forever associated with such a heavenly event and that shouldn't be the case. I am having trouble understanding your logic in keeping this position because all I see is you holding out because of principle and loosing in a key life event. Seriously, both of you need to make a decision to end this now.

[DKT3]

The two of you are about to share the greatest experience that two people can share together, a child. This is not the time to withhold information or allow information to cause a crack in the foundation of your relationship. There is no winner in this situation. DKT3, she is nesting and part of her preparations include the removal of any doubt as to why you are with her, withholding information about another woman still says you are choosing OW over her no different than when she lied to protect OM. She needs to feel that she is first and only. Just my opinion but if one of you doesn't move and end this stalemate, your relationship will suffer for it. The birth of your child will have this dark cloud forever associated with such a heavenly event and that shouldn't be the case. I am having trouble understanding your logic in keeping this position because all I see is you holding out because of principle and loosing in a key life event. Seriously, both of you need to make a decision to end this now.

 

Again, I have answered her questions.

 

I never had an OW. When I was married I had Lovin, after the divorce I had Work girl.

 

I made my chioce, I've done everything in the past six months to prove that she is the woman I want.

 

My logic is sound on the situation, its simply none of her business. I feel that I somewhat caved by giving her the answers. I understand that in a way it was a power play on my part. Our therapist asked me awhile ago if keeping it from her was a way to escape back to that relationship emotionally. He said that holding on is like keeping an affair secret and will thrive in the dark. It made sense, so once again I moved my needle and compromised.

[aliveagain]

Again, I have answered her questions.

 

I never had an OW. When I was married I had Lovin, after the divorce I had Work girl.

 

I made my chioce, I've done everything in the past six months to prove that she is the woman I want.

 

My logic is sound on the situation, its simply none of her business. I feel that I somewhat caved by giving her the answers. I understand that in a way it was a power play on my part. Our therapist asked me awhile ago if keeping it from her was a way to escape back to that relationship emotionally. He said that holding on is like keeping an affair secret and will thrive in the dark. It made sense, so once again I moved my needle and compromised.

 

This says it all, read it again and again and please grasp the totality of that statement. You are each others business, remove the third person from your relationship because this is the wrong point to bet your marriage on. Just an outsiders opinion and I see it differently than you because your too close to it. You don't have to listen to anything I write but a see a future problem in the words you just wrote.

[DKT3]

This says it all, read it again and again and please grasp the totality of that statement. You are each others business, remove the third person from your relationship because this is the wrong point to bet your marriage on. Just an outsiders opinion and I see it differently than you because your too close to it. You don't have to listen to anything I write but a see a future problem in the words you just wrote.

 

I get what your saying, and agree 100%, if we were still an US or relationship at that time. We were divorced and not even talking face to face. Our only contact was about the kids via emails and texts. I wouldn't even respond to her if it wasn't about the kids.

 

What I did during that time I did guilt free because we were divorce, us being together now doesn't change that. I don't ask questions about what she did during that period.

 

Now going forward from six months ago I feel what I do is her business. I keep nothing from her just as I didn't before the divorce.

[aliveagain]

DKT3 please take this as constructive criticism, you both decided to commit yourselves to each other again regardless of your history. It doesn't matter that you and your wife were separated or divorced when you met the woman in question, what matters is you are intentionally choosing to withhold information about her from your wife. What this screams to me is "I am not all in," even though you are. You know that this is an important issue with your wife yet you continue to stand your ground and act defiant. What is really going on? Are you trying to punish her? If I see this imagine what's going through your wife's mind.

 

I think she is asking you to choose, this other woman or your wife, your failing the test.

[HermioneG]

Again, I have answered her questions.

 

I never had an OW. When I was married I had Lovin, after the divorce I had Work girl.

 

I made my chioce, I've done everything in the past six months to prove that she is the woman I want.

 

My logic is sound on the situation, its simply none of her business. I feel that I somewhat caved by giving her the answers. I understand that in a way it was a power play on my part. Our therapist asked me awhile ago if keeping it from her was a way to escape back to that relationship emotionally. He said that holding on is like keeping an affair secret and will thrive in the dark. It made sense, so once again I moved my needle and compromised.

 

I admire what you have done, and I agree with you. If that helps.

 

She needs to deal with the voices in her own head, the projection onto you.

 

I really like Lovin'. I do. But I think she has some work to do on herself in this area, and this is not something you can fix for her, which seems to something you understand and that is why you feel like this.

[DKT3]

So, DK...What do you want? Now?

 

What do you think she wants?

 

Are you DONE and ready to move onto a future without her?

 

Or are you stumbling? Hoping you can put back your relationship with her?

 

A better, stronger relationship with her?

 

I don't fully understand the context of your questions here.

 

What do I want? Now? I want what I've wanted since I was 17 years old, Lovin. However there is a point where I would have to stop giving in. I was a sh*tty husband, so I understand my role in the break down of our marriage. I was always good to her I thought, but I made most of the decisions without her input thinking I knew what was better for her then she did. However, I would have never knowingly done anything to hurt her. So yes there comes a point that I will not compromise who I am at my core for this or any relationship.

 

Am I prepared to move on without her? Honestly, I would be fine. Do I want to? Absolutely not, I love this woman, and my focus is to make this work. This issue isn't something I feel would endanger our relationship. Our communication is much better so I'm not too worried about building resentment on either side.

 

What does she want? Well like all other women, she wants it all. Only slightly joking here

[Hope Shimmers]

I really like lovin' too. And DKT3. For what it's worth, I think his feelings make sense and that a lot of this worry about him not being totally transparent about it (although he has been) is making mountains out of molehills. He is clear as crystal that he loves her and wants the relationship to work, but I can understand why he doesn't want to get into a detailed discussion about a relationship with working girl that he had during his divorce. He mentioned at one point that he didn't think lovin' would like the answers, and he had already done a lot of compromising and I think it's natural for him to feel that way to some extent.

 

Certainly he didn't feel that way to the point of withholding the information no matter what, because he did tell her.

 

So I think and hope they can both move on and make a wonderful life with that new baby added to their family!

Edited July 23, 2014 by Hope Shimmers

[Spectre]

So wait this has been a lot of pages since I have been here, so DK: did you give her all the info she asked for or not? I hope you held out.

 

Maybe wanting to know is unreasonable, maybe I'm over reaching. But for you to question that I want this relationship to work is asinine.

 

Why wouldn't I question it if you are acting like that? Why are you getting upset at me? All I have is the info, which is you demanding information you have no right to.

 

I can't really explain my feelings or emotions surrounding this woman and the relationship she shared with DKT. Its really a long history, a lot of things happened. I have explained some of my issues with their relationship. For one he had become fairly close with her in terms of spending a lot of time together as they traveled for work. Yes I thought they were involved, at least emotionally. It was also during this time frame that he filed for divorce and moved out. Did I think she played a role in that? Of course I did, at the time. I was still in a fog and couldn't accept that I had ruined our marriage so I looked for someone.....something else to blame. DKT has always been honest with me, and I never doubted what he told me, until this point, when he told me nothing was going on. He shut me out of his life, he wouldn't talk to me at all. Then all of a sudden they were a couple. "OMG what a freaking lair" is what I thought when I found out.

 

Look, the point is you guys were done with when this happened. He was close to her..so what? I don't get it, now you feel she caused the divorce? But..that was you.

 

Now while my head believes him that nothing was going on, emotionally its hard to deal with. I feel like I just need this chapter closed. When she reached out to him it stirred all those emotions.

 

Maybe its not my place. Yes I created the drama with my affair, it doesn't make it hurt less that I had to watch him fall in love with her, and to know that she is open and willing to accept him back in a heartbeat. Unreasonable? Yes. Its just how I feel.

 

I get you recognizing it is unreasonable. I just think these are things you need to keep to yourself. It sounds weird because honesty is always best, and if DK was to ask you "hey how do you feel about this" I could see you answering, but I still feel initiating this and stuff was wrong. I feel that if he did give you all the info you have asked for..it will now set the tone for the future, which isn't a good one. It is a future where he gives into you, which..considering the pas, I can't see how you'd see that as a good thing, can you?

Edited July 23, 2014 by Spectre

[Hope Shimmers]

but I can understand why he doesn't want to get into a detailed discussion about a relationship with working girl that he had during his divorce.

 

Jeez.... I just re-read this. I meant 'work girl' not 'working girl'. Yikes... Sorry guys!

[lovinDKT3]

I admire what you have done, and I agree with you. If that helps.

 

She needs to deal with the voices in her own head, the projection onto you.

 

I really like Lovin'. I do. But I think she has some work to do on herself in this area, and this is not something you can fix for her, which seems to something you understand and that is why you feel like this.

I have done a lot of work on myself and still have a ways to go.

 

I'm not making excuses for the way I act, it just been my go to over the years. I wouldn't say that DKT is a push over, but he would respond in my favor when I acted like a spoiled brat. He re-enforced that behavior. Now, after I start down that road I recognize it and do my best to stop.

 

I think my issue is he no longer has any patience for that type of behavior. I wanted information about that relationship and I resorted to that old behavior to get it and he dug in and refused. I think us understanding where we go off the tracks is progress.

 

I had been stressed out and my BP spiked (work and being pregnant, not him), DKT freaked out and decided to give me the information. Some of which I wish I hadn't asked, other things made me feel better. All of it was unfair to him.

 

I'm working guys, but sometimes I feel like I'm running in knee high mud.

[lovinDKT3]

Jeez.... I just re-read this. I meant 'work girl' not 'working girl'. Yikes... Sorry guys!

 

 

I missed that, funny. It ok Hope, with me.

[HermioneG]

I have done a lot of work on myself and still have a ways to go.

 

I'm not making excuses for the way I act, it just been my go to over the years. I wouldn't say that DKT is a push over, but he would respond in my favor when I acted like a spoiled brat. He re-enforced that behavior. Now, after I start down that road I recognize it and do my best to stop.

 

I think my issue is he no longer has any patience for that type of behavior. I wanted information about that relationship and I resorted to that old behavior to get it and he dug in and refused. I think us understanding where we go off the tracks is progress.

 

I had been stressed out and my BP spiked (work and being pregnant, not him), DKT freaked out and decided to give me the information. Some of which I wish I hadn't asked, other things made me feel better. All of it was unfair to him.

 

I'm working guys, but sometimes I feel like I'm running in knee high mud.

 

And this? Is why I know I like you. Because you're honest. And this stuff isn't easy.

 

You'll get through it. You will.

[Spectre]

I fully recognize being pregnant and all that can cause stress, but all I read from that is DK stood his ground until you had a potential health issue and then just spilled all the beans. That..well, I honestly don't know what to say. It's not exactly the type of relationship I would want, where one is guilted into doing something, but alas it is too late to prevent that from having any effect on the future.

 

So..I guess good luck?

[DKT3]

I fully recognize being pregnant and all that can cause stress, but all I read from that is DK stood his ground until you had a potential health issue and then just spilled all the beans. That..well, I honestly don't know what to say. It's not exactly the type of relationship I would want, where one is guilted into doing something, but alas it is too late to prevent that from having any effect on the future.

 

So..I guess good luck?

 

Not guilted, I did what I felt was best for the well being of both child and mother. Our relationship is under construction, and not at all a bad one. We have issues from the past that we are working on. No one will ever have all they want from any relationship. Yes we have issues but the bottom line is this is a woman that I have been unable to live the life I want without. Sure I can find and be happy without her, I did that. Even then something was missing.

[DKT3]

We are in a bad place and I'm just not sure we can continue. Nothing really seems that different from her end. I doubt I would ever have to worry about cheating, however she just can't seem to stop putting herself and needs ahead of me and mine. This is something I mostly ignored in the past, now it just seems to be flashing red. Maybe I'm making too much out of this but it maybe a sign.

 

Sat morning I had a grill master contest, Lovin had some fitting to do and said she would be done at noon. Well about 11 am I called and asked if she would stop on the way to get the sauce I forgot. Comp started at 12:15. Well she doesn't show until 1pm. No call no text. A simple heads up and I could have sent DS to grab some store sauce. Nothing. So later that day I had a question ringing in my head that I believe HarryBrown asked another post "what is she doing differently for you" the honest answer is very little.

 

I felt myself withdrawing by the second as my mind started to race. Then I thought "well she is pregnant....stop that....no more makijg excuses for her" this is getting to the point where its do or do not.

 

When I confronted her about this issue Sat night are lame a$$ excuse was "everything was great until you got that email for that tramp, your just looking for an excuse to not move back in, to not commit? Blameshifting, selfishness, I want I want I want. I didn't have anything to say, so I left. I avoided her all day Sunday. I know that isn't the solution. I just don't know, maybe we can't recover maybe its dead, maybe its always been dead and I simply allowed this crap and now my eyes are open.

 

I don't know guys I'm in a bad place and think this may finally be the end of us.

[tom670]

We are in a bad place and I'm just not sure we can continue. Nothing really seems that different from her end. I doubt I would ever have to worry about cheating, however she just can't seem to stop putting herself and needs ahead of me and mine. This is something I mostly ignored in the past, now it just seems to be flashing red. Maybe I'm making too much out of this but it maybe a sign.

 

Sat morning I had a grill master contest, Lovin had some fitting to do and said she would be done at noon. Well about 11 am I called and asked if she would stop on the way to get the sauce I forgot. Comp started at 12:15. Well she doesn't show until 1pm. No call no text. A simple heads up and I could have sent DS to grab some store sauce. Nothing. So later that day I had a question ringing in my head that I believe HarryBrown asked another post "what is she doing differently for you" the honest answer is very little.

 

I felt myself withdrawing by the second as my mind started to race. Then I thought "well she is pregnant....stop that....no more makijg excuses for her" this is getting to the point where its do or do not.

 

When I confronted her about this issue Sat night are lame a$$ excuse was "everything was great until you got that email for that tramp, your just looking for an excuse to not move back in, to not commit? Blameshifting, selfishness, I want I want I want. I didn't have anything to say, so I left. I avoided her all day Sunday. I know that isn't the solution. I just don't know, maybe we can't recover maybe its dead, maybe its always been dead and I simply allowed this crap and now my eyes are open.

 

I don't know guys I'm in a bad place and think this may finally be the end of us.

 

Wow sorry to hear this.

[Bittersweetie]

Hi DKT3,

 

As a WW I was really, really selfish. I'd always been a pretty selfish person. I was an only child, and my parents were pretty lenient with me. My H fully admits that he enabled my selfishness for most of our relationship.

 

After d-day, this selfishness is one of the main things I addressed. It was really, really hard to change a dynamic with myself and my primary relationship that had been in place for 30+ years. Especially when I am overly tired or sick, etc. The difference now is that if I do/say something super selfish, my H calls me on it. And I'm glad he does, I'm still learning and growing.

 

I don't know if this is the case with Lovin, but if her "go-to" when tired or whatever is being a bit selfish, or if your old dynamic involved that, maybe that's what happened here. You can call her on it, that's how we recognize it and grow. I can see though how this was difficult for you.

 

Reconciliation unfortunately isn't a straight line...it zig zags all over the place, doubles back, goes in circles...all you can do is keep moving forward. Good luck.

 

BSW

[DKT3]

Hi DKT3,

 

As a WW I was really, really selfish. I'd always been a pretty selfish person. I was an only child, and my parents were pretty lenient with me. My H fully admits that he enabled my selfishness for most of our relationship.

 

After d-day, this selfishness is one of the main things I addressed. It was really, really hard to change a dynamic with myself and my primary relationship that had been in place for 30+ years. Especially when I am overly tired or sick, etc. The difference now is that if I do/say something super selfish, my H calls me on it. And I'm glad he does, I'm still learning and growing.

 

I don't know if this is the case with Lovin, but if her "go-to" when tired or whatever is being a bit selfish, or if your old dynamic involved that, maybe that's what happened here. You can call her on it, that's how we recognize it and grow. I can see though how this was difficult for you.

 

Reconciliation unfortunately isn't a straight line...it zig zags all over the place, doubles back, goes in circles...all you can do is keep moving forward. Good luck.

 

BSW

Lovin parents were older when they had her and her sister, and very wealthy. They were and still are to a large degree daddy's girls. She has always displayed this behavior. I also enabled. I have done so much, given up so much in my quest to make her happy in return I get taken for granted. How hard would it have been to contact me to say she would be late? Her answer to that was "I didn't think about it, I was just trying to get here" didn't think about it? I asked for one thing but somehow I or it wasn't important enough to "think about it"

 

I spoke with her earlier today and I agree that she has a valid point about me dragging my feet in moving back in. What she doesn't seem to get is, its because of things like this.

 

I'm not really an emotional guy, more cold and caculated then emotional. Right now, I'm an emotional mess. I took some time away from everything Sunday, just sat in my empty condo blasting some old school hip hop, trying to not think about anything.

 

Seems I'm at the cross road AGAIN, and try to not do anything rash.

[ForeverTainted]

I am not excusing lovin's behavior but some women are really irrational during pregnancy. Crazy even! I was with one of my kids and I couldn't seem to stop myself it was almost crazy. People who have never experienced that think it is a lame excuse and point to the "normal" pregnant ladies. i was one of them before and now I try to not hurl to many stones at a pregnant lady.

 

It doesn't mean you give in it means you be patient and see how after it all she is. Pregnancy while being riddled with hormones is a difficult time to change. Each pregnancy is so different. I wouldn't throw in the towel yet.

 

As a side note if my husband told me something in his past was "none of my business" I would be hurt beyond words because everything past present and future about him I care about. "None of your business" and "intimacy" don't fit together. If my husband would have told me that during that one pregnancy I probably would have cried for days. I also suffered severe post partum with that pregnancy as well. And was pretty normal throughout my other ones (slightly shorter fused but no where near the same pevel of crazy)

 

Lovin, try your best to not drive him away. Apologize quickly and take proactive steps to sacrifice some of your wants for his.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Said it pages back...her insecurity is a problem...its irrational, unjustified and childish.

 

She seems to be somewhat passive aggressive and like a child stamping her foot.

 

She does not exhibit healthy behaviours, and I really wonder how much work she has done....five years along I would have expected more. Id be jumping all over any emotionally manipulative behaviours....and thats what ive seen in this thread....things ljke "if you love me you'd tell me"...and worse....flipping the script to treat you like the wayward.

 

Sorry for you. Sadly I think shes done about all the changing your going to get...the question for you is...is it enough?

Edited July 28, 2014 by ThatsJustHowIRoll

[MuddyFootprints]

Either you are in with both feet or you're not. This isn't about the infidelity anymore. It's about your relationship and your commitment to each other.

 

I completely understand the feeling of wanting to bail when things get tough, when communications fail. I have been there.

 

It is unfortunate that you forgot your sauce. It is even more unfortunate that you are feeling taken advantage of because she didn't get it to you in a timely manner.

 

Quite honestly, you are coming across as though she deliberately tried to sabotage your competition. That's not really what happened and you know it.

 

For both of your sakes, either get in or get out.

[DKT3]

I am not excusing lovin's behavior but some women are really irrational during pregnancy. Crazy even! I was with one of my kids and I couldn't seem to stop myself it was almost crazy. People who have never experienced that think it is a lame excuse and point to the "normal" pregnant ladies. i was one of them before and now I try to not hurl to many stones at a pregnant lady.

 

It doesn't mean you give in it means you be patient and see how after it all she is. Pregnancy while being riddled with hormones is a difficult time to change. Each pregnancy is so different. I wouldn't throw in the towel yet.

yes and I understand this.

 

As a side note if my husband told me something in his past was "none of my business" I would be hurt beyond words because everything past present and future about him I care about. "None of your business" and "intimacy" don't fit together. If my husband would have told me that during that one pregnancy I probably would have cried for days. I also suffered severe post partum with that pregnancy as well. And was pretty normal throughout my other ones (slightly shorter fused but no where near the same pevel of crazy)

I disagree about the intimacy. Its not so much about sharing the information, as it is that she doesn't have the right to the information.

[DKT3]

Said it pages back...her insecurity is a problem...its irrational, unjustified and childish.

 

She seems to be somewhat passive aggressive and like a child stamping her foot.

 

She does not exhibit healthy behaviours, and I really wonder how much work she has done....five years along I would have expected more. Id be jumping all over any emotionally manipulative behaviours....and thats what ive seen in this thread....things ljke "if you love me you'd tell me"...and worse....flipping the script to treat you like the wayward.

 

Sorry for you. Sadly I think shes done about all the changing your going to get...the question for you is...is it enough?

 

I agree, however, its almost like going to your high school. At the start you make rounds and talk to everyone, but by the end of the night you look around and everyone is in the same groups they were in all those years ago.

 

I think as she become more comfortable with us being together she seems to be showing signs of the "same ole same".

 

I do often feel like she acts like I'm a wayward. I'm really starting to believe that she thinks I was unfaithful. She has in the past claimed that I had in her words "at least an EA". She then says she believes me that I didn't. I think she does think I did. I think she wants me to talk about it a lot in a way to catch me in a lie or hoping that I will leak information that supports "an affair" before we split.

[DKT3]

Either you are in with both feet or you're not. This isn't about the infidelity anymore. It's about your relationship and your commitment to each other.

 

I completely understand the feeling of wanting to bail when things get tough, when communications fail. I have been there.

 

It is unfortunate that you forgot your sauce. It is even more unfortunate that you are feeling taken advantage of because she didn't get it to you in a timely manner.

 

Quite honestly, you are coming across as though she deliberately tried to sabotage your competition. That's not really what happened and you know it.

 

For both of your sakes, either get in or get out.

 

I'm not sure how anyone can question my commitment to Lovin and our relationship.

 

No it wasn't her intent to sabotage, and that isn't why I was upset. Its the lack of thought towards me. How much effort would it have taken to drop a call or text to let me know she wouldn't make it on time. Its just one of many examples. Another example happened about two weeks ago when she sold most of the stuff in my condo to a friend who was just divorced without telling me. Neither is a big deal, however they are signs when lumped together.