Being casual sex material vs relationship material

[thekid36]

Hidden in this statement, OP, is the flip-side of your "ladder theory" (with the exception of the first rung of paid sex workers). I can't speak for all women, but I think there are enough of them in the dating forums right now that I can make a reasonable projection and say that it takes awhile for women to understand this phenomenon and, in the process, men get the wrong idea about how casual we are about casual sex.

 

When a man shows interest in us, puts in time and effort in paying attention to us, tells us we're special, that he's never met anyone like us, etc., we start to imagine a relationship with this guy. All of a sudden, we've got a "happily ever after" story forming in our heads ("we met at a bar of all places and he just swept me off my feet because he knew I was the one for him"). We don't start looking forward to what's going to happen that night. We start looking forward to what's going to happen tomorrow and next week and the week after that. And, so, what do we do? We make an investment that, we think, might tip the scale even further in our direction (making us the most awesome of awesome chicks) and we sleep with him.

Then, he disappears.

 

This causes women pain. Not only are our feelings hurt and hopes dashed, but we've been tricked and betrayed. This is a huge hit on our self-esteem and, unless we figure out that giving into sex too early was the cause of the betrayal, we're going to go out and get attached to the next guy who boosts our confidence and the whole scenario will happen again...and again and again.

 

Kiss_andmakeup got it right. She felt the attraction. She recognized her fiance-to-be's interest and she realized that she didn't want risk the pain of his rejection by having sex with him too early. It didn't have anything to do with his experience level or his 'game'. She wasn't settling or giving up casual sex. She saw value in him (not monetary value, but value as a compatible human being) and she didn't want to risk losing him (and feeling extreme pain) by overlooking her own value as a compatible human being for him.

 

By working your "ladder theory", you are preying on women who have already been hurt. You are committing yourself to causing them more pain for the sake of your own gratification and boost in self-worth. And, what's worse, you're doing it consciously.

 

 

I think part of the general issue here is that men and women usually think differently in general. Included within this is the wild and wonderful world of relationships and sex. This is not something which should be taken lightly.

 

 

As men, we tend to act within the moment. Whatever feels good is what we go with. This is many times at the mercy of all else. We go to a bar, see a woman who is attractive, and go for it. Without thinking about anything at all other than the need to get what we want. Usually and hopefully, it is not in a malicious way. Though, it can be interpreted as being sort of selfish.

 

 

Women are many times much deeper thinkers. So much is always analyzed. Whatever is decided as the best course of action is the one which is likely to be taken. A woman may go to a bar, see a man who is attractive, and contemplate the next course of action. One which goes beyond just that brief moment in time.

 

 

Because of this difference, we as men may really tend to not realize that there are consequences to all of our actions. It might cause us to not take responsibility for something or someone. Because, 'after all, we were just acting in the moment'.

 

 

So if a man sleeps with a woman casually, he feels as if there is nothing that is really owed. 'The transaction has already been completed', so to speak. If he then moves on right away, in his mind, the woman should do the same exact thing. 'Because after all, the sex was only casual'.

 

 

Yet, even though a woman may choose to have sex very quickly with a man, she still may tend to look at the same exact situation that occured all very differently. Because of that definitive difference in the way men and women usually look at things.

 

 

I have found that the negative relationships that have come my way have taught me how to be a better partner. Not to mention a better person as well. Being more of a man perhaps means trying to understand women more.

 

 

The best possible solution would be to think about others besides our own selves before we act within any given situation. It is at least important to fully acknowledge the differences which do exist between someone who simply acts as opposed to a person who tends to think.

[Woggle]

Ideally I would like to be seen as both sexual and husband material and that is what I stuff but if I were forced to choose I would rather be the man they want to bed than the settle guy anyday. Being settled for is a horrible thing for a man. I have the both though with my wife which is what a man should strive for.

[thekid36]

It seems as if there's always a division between this two, especially when it comes to girls. It seems that for guys, if a girl looks good and acts nice, then she is both casual sex and relationship material. However, with women, it seems to be more dependent upon behavior and definitely looks. I view it as being a spectrum. Some guys lean more heavily to one side than the other. Those of us who were dealt a bad genetic hand facially don't have many (if any) opportunities for casual sex. We pretty much have to settle (yes I said settle) for being relationship or worse yet, "hubby material". Yes, casual sex can be empty (so I've heard, I personally don't know) but it can be fun and it certainly beats the alternative.

 

Being "hubby material" doesn't sound that appealing to me as it implies that you're going to get "chosen" when your partner is finished making her rounds. You're not good enough for sex but only for buying things, raising children, etc. Also, when your girl has been with 20+ guys and she's your first one, it sounds so bad. She has infinitely more experience than you and if she leaves, then you'd be out of luck because she didn't choose you but she "settled" on you.

 

Having a lot of casual sex for guys pretty much means you attract girls on a deeper, primal level rather than just through personality. My friends frequently have casual sex and have girls all the time trying to corner them and get them to commit. My friend/old roommate had a lot of casual sex in college, now he's on autopilot in a relationship.

 

That is just so ideal. Not only did he gain experience but now he's in a relationship with a girl he actually likes. I'm past that point and I missed that window of being in my prime. I've just realized that if you aren't found attractive in college, you probably never will be. All the guys I know that had casual sex in college are more accustomed to girls and so chill around them. That's because they know a woman's sexual side. There's nothing more they can't know. That's why I'm going to a specialist when my friends and I go to Europe, just to break that barrier. Then, I'll work my way up from there.

 

I've already said my peace. So I have a question for the guys: which one would you choose? Which one have you been?

 

 

It sounds as if you have some deep anger within you. I am sad to see this because it honestly seems to be affecting the way you view life.

 

 

You have to realize first that no one is entitled to anything. Just because you try to be a good person does not necessarily mean that the ladies should come crawling.

 

 

Why do you look at it as if a long-term relationship is settling? There is no way in the world that all of those who are getting together for a long period of time are doing so unhappily.

 

 

I think that what women ultimately want with us is dependent on the specific situation. Just as is true with what we as a man are looking for as well. Not simple enough as only casual sex material in opposition to relationship material. Life is not always black and white like that. There are those who enjoy meeting members of the opposite sex without any actual agendas.

 

 

Perhaps the reason why the opportunites have not been there for you centers around your own attitude. There is nothing more arousing to many women than a man who simply knows how to be confident. Without being cocky, of course.

[Ryan R.]

So you agree with my suggestion that the comparison you are making is really 'casual sex material' vs 'no material', and not relevant to relationships at all?

 

No, I believe that if you are seen as casual sex material by a lot of women, then it is better than only being seen as relationship material. Not only are you considered sexually attractive without a doubt but you then have the option of getting into a relationship. When you're relationship material, you don't strike as sharp a chord in women and you have less options.

 

Let's compare a heavily muscled guy, great v taper, strong jawline to a guy who is shorter and chubbier. Let's say he's richer than guy one (guy two). Guy one works but only as a cashier at a retail store. This has no bearing on his intelligence, he just got a bad hand. Usually the former is hookup material while the latter is only good for relationships, one where he'll just spend on her. If I had a choice between being handsome or being rich, I'd choose guy one all the time. Money means a lot, but it's that this guy will end up being used. I opt out.

 

By working your "ladder theory", you are preying on women who have already been hurt. You are committing yourself to causing them more pain for the sake of your own gratification and boost in self-worth. And, what's worse, you're doing it consciously.

 

It seems in this scenario, you lose either way. Might as well go for the one that gives the most benefit. We're all adults here. We make our own beds and we lie in them. If she doesn't want to have sex, she doesn't have to.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Ryan R.

[thekid36]

No, I believe that if you are seen as casual sex material by a lot of women, then it is better than only being seen as relationship material. Not only are you considered sexually attractive without a doubt but you then have the option of getting into a relationship. When you're relationship material, you don't strike as sharp a chord in women and you have less options.

 

Let's compare a heavily muscled guy, great v taper, strong jawline to a guy who is shorter and chubbier. Let's say he's richer than guy one (guy two). Guy one works but only as a cashier at a retail store. This has no bearing on his intelligence, he just got a bad hand. Usually the former is hookup material while the latter is only good for relationships, one where he'll just spend on her. If I had a choice between being handsome or being rich, I'd choose guy one all the time. Money means a lot, but it's that this guy will end up being used. I opt out.

 

 

 

It seems in this scenario, you lose either way. Might as well go for the one that gives the most benefit. We're all adults here. We make our own beds and we lie in them. If she doesn't want to have sex, she doesn't have to.

 

 

I once again think that you are generalizing here. This is not really a black and white issue. In my opinion, you are looking at women without much respect. I really don't think that the ladies go out on the prowl specifically looking to classify every single man as either casual sex material or as relationship worthy. Furthermore, not all of us men sit around and think about this. Plus, just because a woman wants to be with a man long term does not mean that she is looking for a free hand out. I honestly think that you are thinking way too much. Perhaps if you take a step back, relax a little, and try to be yourself, a wonderful woman out there may just be waiting.

[hestheone66]

I agree that the two qualities of casual versus relationship material are very different. I agree that confident guys that just want casual sex are successful. It is their confidence that matters not their looks. However because they have had success over time of seducing women the odds increase of being good at getting the girls. Initially there maybe lying to get in a girls pants and maybe having several women on the to at one time (so they never appear sexually desperate).. One of my male friends is in his 50s prefers to be single and normally has 2-3 women he's sleeping with. He's not. Particularly good looking but he is skilled at bedding women. He knows he's not relationship material

[carrie_o]

I have many female friends and I had female friends in college. I have seen who they go after? The guys with experience. Or they guys that (should) have experience. Tall, charismatic, extremely socially attuned. That guy didn't come out the womb that way. He was socialized by family and positive interactions with girls. When you have a guy who has been told and shown that he's sexually invalid all his life, it starts to become true.

 

They aren't after the guy with experience. They are after the tall, charismatic, extremely socially attuned guy. You are getting the cause and effect confused.

 

I doubt any girl will think, "That guy looks like he's been with 100 girls. Yea, I want him." Instead she'll think, "Wow, that extremely confident guy is the life of the party. I want him."

 

If you become that charismatic, confident guy then girls will want you too.

 

As for the casual sex vs relationship topic, I agree with the posters that say that relationships are attraction and emotional connection while casual sex is just attraction. I don't know anyone who "settled" for a relationship partner. Sure, some of their current bfs/gfs may be less conventionally attractive than prior partners but you can tell by the way that they look at each other that they think their partner is the sexiest person in the room.

[Ryan R.]

You dont have to have a lot of nsa sex to be considered a great catch by women, but I find the guys that do are considered good catches, and are desired by many of their flings/ons for more. Sure some women here might not want want them, but plenty do. They have options for nsa and even more options for relationships. The guys that suck when it comes to nsa generally are not a smash hit either on the relationship front. Some will have a take what they can get attitude, which I think is far worse than GG's take on the OP wanting casual sex with a similarly enthusiastic woman as being used or a tool.

 

Sure most will end up getting a gf, but they will have a lot less options. They might not get a woman that really turns them on, or get a woman who wants to marry them until their 30safter she had her fun and is ready to settle down. The principles of attraction don't differ that much for the two, except women weight other aspects a bit more for the long haul. Also lack of success with women will make the guy less desirable in the eyes of many women.

There a lot of women out there now, who have the attitude that there are guys for fun, guys for bfs, and guys to marry, and even guys to settle into old age with. As someone said here, guys want to be all 3 or at least that way for their true love.

Anyway I don't think visiting a hooker is going to change this issue a whole lot for the OP, unless its step 1 in a series of changes in his life, but if it brings him some enjoyment and he becomes a little bit more self assured, then its probably worth it. He'll find out.

 

 

Wow, good job. You explained how I look at it better than I can. The guys that are very socially attuned and experts at seduction can have it three different ways. Casual, semi-familiar, familiar. They can adapt to differing circumstances. I've seen it among my friends, so I don't know why this isn't common knowledge. The guys that aren't attractive or don't have those skills don't have many options. I don't know about you guys, but I don't want to be settled on when I'm nearing my 30s or in my 30s, having more financial freedom than before. It's just too convenient that girls decide to give other guys a chance that they wouldn't at all, when they are reaching that age. There's a reason why the game is called "Kill, ****, Marry". Guys are pretty much placed in that category.

 

As far as the specialist goes, that is it's own topic, but it is rung one of what one of my friends terms "ladder theory". It's very valid and I need to start climbing that ladder.

 

They aren't after the guy with experience. They are after the tall, charismatic, extremely socially attuned guy. You are getting the cause and effect confused.

 

I doubt any girl will think, "That guy looks like he's been with 100 girls. Yea, I want him." Instead she'll think, "Wow, that extremely confident guy is the life of the party. I want him."

 

If you become that charismatic, confident guy then girls will want you too.

 

As for the casual sex vs relationship topic, I agree with the posters that say that relationships are attraction and emotional connection while casual sex is just attraction. I don't know anyone who "settled" for a relationship partner. Sure, some of their current bfs/gfs may be less conventionally attractive than prior partners but you can tell by the way that they look at each other that they think their partner is the sexiest person in the room.

 

 

I just think in general ascendotum sums up the thread.

 

I will say this: most jobs don't like to train new applicants how to do the job. They expect you to have prior experience, skills, and knowledge. If you don't have any of those, then good luck to you. Hope you have some friends in high places.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Ryan R.

[somedude81]

Absolutely brilliant post by ascendotum

 

There a lot of women out there now, who have the attitude that there are guys for fun, guys for bfs, and guys to marry, and even guys to settle into old age with. As someone said here, guys want to be all 3 or at least that way for their true love.

 

The way I see it there are several categories that women put men into.

 

1) Women don't want to date or sleep with him

2) Women would only marry him when she is ready to settle down, done having fun

3) Women still want to have some fun but would only consider him for a serious relationship.

4) Women would gladly have no strings sex with him and want to party, but would also consider him for a relationship.

5) Women want him for sex and nothing else. He may have some issues that make him a bad choice for a boyfriend.

 

Obviously the worst scenario is to be a category 1 guy. Being a category 2 guy also sucks because it means that most likely the guy will be ignored until his 30's and will be unable to date women under 30.

[ascendotum]

Originally Posted by ascendotum

There a lot of women out there now, who have the attitude that there are guys for fun, guys for bfs, and guys to marry, and even guys to settle into old age with. As someone said here, guys want to be all 3 or at least that way for their true love.

 

To be fair, there are quite a lot of guys out there with the same attitude when it comes to women. Most of the player guys I know married women who were a fair bit different in life style & attitude to most of the women they slept with. Lots of guys can get involved in a relationship with a women and will be happy to be with here for a while knowing they don't see her for a LT serious relationship but don't necessarily have that 'type of women' classification. (women step stone too rather than be single). It probably wont hit women the same as a guy being a pigeon holed by some guys because generally she always getting attention, for fun or gf, whereas lots of guys they dont get the two.

 

If you are a guy for fun, generally you will be a relationship guy too for plenty of women. Some will equally be both for majority of women, but they call the shots and make themselves not available for a serious relationship. Women don't want to be settled for and I see they tend to have that issue when it comes to guys who have not been a hit on the dating (relationships or nsa sex) scene. Guys also don't want to be settled for, but its not quite in the same way as women. Rather they don't want a women who thinks she deserves better or is disappointed she did not land a guy as good as her flings/STRs/ONS/FBs, or only in a relationship with him now because her sex appeal has faded. Just my opinion anyway

[Ryan R.]

Originally Posted by ascendotum

There a lot of women out there now, who have the attitude that there are guys for fun, guys for bfs, and guys to marry, and even guys to settle into old age with. As someone said here, guys want to be all 3 or at least that way for their true love.

 

To be fair, there are quite a lot of guys out there with the same attitude when it comes to women. Most of the player guys I know married women who were a fair bit different in life style & attitude to most of the women they slept with. Lots of guys can get involved in a relationship with a women and will be happy to be with here for a while knowing they don't see her for a LT serious relationship but don't necessarily have that 'type of women' classification. (women step stone too rather than be single). It probably wont hit women the same as a guy being a pigeon holed by some guys because generally she always getting attention, for fun or gf, whereas lots of guys they dont get the two.

 

If you are a guy for fun, generally you will be a relationship guy too for plenty of women. Some will equally be both for majority of women, but they call the shots and make themselves not available for a serious relationship. Women don't want to be settled for and I see they tend to have that issue when it comes to guys who have not been a hit on the dating (relationships or nsa sex) scene. Guys also don't want to be settled for, but its not quite in the same way as women. Rather they don't want a women who thinks she deserves better or is disappointed she did not land a guy as good as her flings/STRs/ONS/FBs, or only in a relationship with him now because her sex appeal has faded. Just my opinion anyway

 

Opinion? I'd say that's right on the mark.