When to walk away...

[ichbinmich]

Hi. This is probably going to be long. I've been reading posts here for awhile and finally decided to join in because I'm going insane.

 

I told my mm if he didn't have a separation agreement by Friday (three days from now) then we are finished. He's not going to get it done. I'm freaking out.

 

We started as coworkers, him in a rocky marriage, me in a relationship that was comfortably going nowhere. We got along great, we spent way too much time in close quarters together, vented to each other about our relationships for awhile. His marriage ended, they got back together and split up a lot. He moved to his parents. He had a gf, then split up, then back with the wife, then split up. We stayed close friends the whole time... there was a couple close calls flirtation-wise but we behaved, and then we got drunk and slept together. It carried on for awhile. Then he told me it was over and they were going to work things out. I had a bf so life goes on. They didn't work out. We never stopped.

 

I split up with my bf in December. MM told me he was leaving me for his wife (again) in January. He broke my heart. Upon seeing how upset I was, he said he realised just how much he cared for me and promised me a separation if I would forgive him and work things out. I agreed. I refused to be openly in a relationship though until he got the agreement.

 

He didn't do anything. They had 1 mediation meeting at the beginning of February, that meeting went well and supposedly the agreement would be forthcoming without a problem... Nothing else happened. His wife regularly rang to try and work things out and he stayed with me. But no separation. He even still went to the house too often for my comfort. Even sleeping there with the kids (when she was away). No changes, just excuses. His wife got a new bf. But no separation. In May we had a huge argument... apparently he had an argument with the wife and they were going to push with the separation. This brought forth the question... what about the previous 3 months... why was nothing done until she demanded it?

 

He still didn't move forward. I told him he couldn't have me as long as he belongs to someone else, that he has already left me for twice. I'm a good looking amazing, smart woman. I have plenty of men asking for dates. I deserve someone that can be with me. He says he loves me. He says to give him another 2 months. Again... I agree. He does nothing for 5 weeks. Then on week 6 he begins his taxes. No lawyer appointment has been booked, just the beginning of tax filing preparation (apparently needed by the lawyer). I get no updates. Last week we argue because I'm freaking out and he's giving me nothing and avoiding me. This weekend he was amazing.... but no updates. I've let it be because I don't want to push.

 

Today he complained about being tired and how much work prepping 2 years of taxes is. I couldn't hold back any more. I pointed out he promised me 6 months ago to get a separation and he can't even do his taxes for it. I pointed out I know he's not going to come though. I pointed out that he hasn't said a word to me about it. That he's left me hanging. That he hasn't asked for more time. That he just hasn't dealt with it at all. That its killing me. He cries. He apologises. He says he's working on things. He is terrified and doesn't know what to say to me. He goes home and spends the night working on his taxes. He says he will have everything at his accountant by the end of the week.

 

The end of the week was when he should have a separation agreement.

 

I can't even sleep.

 

Please tell me I'm right in not backing down. Tell me the current hurt is worth the hurt I'm saving myself if I let things drag out. I've given up so much already for him. All he's given me so far is promises and heartache.

[AmyBamy]

You are doing the right thing for yourself. Don't be the band-aid for his marriage. Often times, when you stop being the band-aid, the marriage falls apart pretty quickly. If it doesn't, then at least you are in a better spot and can find someone that is willing to give you what you want, which is a full time relationship, not an affair. Especially considering he has told you that this is what he is going to do.

 

Hang in there and try to take care of you. If he doesn't come through, it's just the end of a relationship, not the end of the world, even if it feels like it for a minute. Trust that everything happens exactly as it is supposed to because these things have a way of working out exactly the way they are supposed to.

[cocorico]

If you're ready to walk away, walk away. Don't wait until the end of the week.

[ichbinmich]

I wish it were as simple as your reply makes it seem. I'm not ready. Hence posting here.

 

Compared to a lot of what I've read, my situation is actually pretty promising. Because of that I keep worrying that maybe I need to be just a little more patient, a little more lenient.

 

Heck, I'm possibly only a few days away from just posting in the divorce forum, complaining about how long things take or how difficult the process is.

 

A little part of me... actually screw this, yay for internet honesty. A BIG part of me wants to be told that this is the case.

[jwi71]

I wish it were as simple as your reply makes it seem. I'm not ready. Hence posting here.

 

Compared to a lot of what I've read, my situation is actually pretty promising. Because of that I keep worrying that maybe I need to be just a little more patient, a little more lenient.

 

Heck, I'm possibly only a few days away from just posting in the divorce forum, complaining about how long things take or how difficult the process is.

 

A little part of me... actually screw this, yay for internet honesty. A BIG part of me wants to be told that this is the case.

 

Filing for D is not difficult, timing consuming or even expensive. Depending the lawyer's schedule, it is not unfathomable to meet with the lawyer at 9am and have D filed by 5pm.

 

AB said it in another thread - look for a consistent trend of action towards his ACTIONS following his WORDS.

 

And the problem becomes what you have now - the allegory of waiting for the bus. You have waited for the bus for so long - one fears that the moment one walks away the bus arrives and you miss it. So we bargain with ourselves and say "another 5 minutes" - and before we know it - the 5 minutes more is now 6 hours and the day lost.

 

The best way, imo, is to set a reasonable deadline (and in fact, HE set one himself did he not? (and missed it)) and stick to it. If, on Friday, he cannot produce separation papers (why not D?) then you NEED to end it. Block, delete, mourn, heal, recover, rejoin life.

 

To NOT do so sends a pretty clear message of - I don't REALLY mean what I say.

[whichwayisup]

Walk away. If he truly wants you and is really ready to separate and leave his wife (do they have kids to consider?) then he will! Whether you're waiting or not because he'd rather be alone than stay married and living in the house with his wife.

 

If he is leaving his wife FOR you, it'll be much harder and you two will have a tough time lasting. Even more so if they have children.

[whichwayisup]

Compared to a lot of what I've read, my situation is actually pretty promising. Because of that I keep worrying that maybe I need to be just a little more patient, a little more lenient.

 

And he knows this. Which is why he can drag it out, say he's doing it but not really putting a whole lot of effort into what he's promised you. Giving you just enough hope to...Hang on.

 

Does his wife know of you and the affair? If there really are headed for a separation and their marriage is almost over, why don't you ask him if you can speak to her? Watch how he reacts.

 

Put a time limit on this, otherwise you'll be where you are now come summers end or fall. Imagine his next excuse as to why he can't leave - Too close to holidays (thanksgiving, christmas etc).. and then you'll be his OW and he is still married.

[trailrunner1975]

You are doing the right thing- I suggest running like hell instead of a walk though. A man who means business will get it done, and fast. He isn't, you have your answer, and it is time for you to cut your losses and move on. Like yesterday.

[Quiet Storm]

With all the waiting & tolerating you have already done, I doubt he takes the date seriously. He thinks you love him enough to keep putting up with it.

 

"Actions not words" doesn't only apply to him, it also applies to you. You can complain, yell, cry, threaten and guilt trip him all day long, but those are just words. If you continue to be involved with him, it sends the message "I want you to divorce but if you don't, it's OK. I say all this stuff about needing a separation, but the truth is that I'd rather be with a married you than no you at all".

 

So if you stick to what you said, you are absolutely doing the right thing. He needs to see that you are not willing to tolerate this anymore. He needs to see that your own well being is your number one priority. He needs to know that words just don't cut it- that you aren't just going to just say you deserve better, but that you will accept nothing less.

 

Stay strong.

[Darren Steez]

me in a relationship that was comfortably going nowhere. .

 

Rather ironic in the end...

[bentleychic]

You gave him an ultimatum. You need to decide if YOU are okay with the result of you holding him to that ultimatum. (Kinda like with kids. Don't tell them a punishment if you have no intention of following through.) If you don't follow through, chances are he'll never take you seriously if you offer another in the future.

 

When to walk away? When the relationship brings you more pain and sadness than happiness.

 

I know it's easier said than done. Believe me! But it's true.

[georgia girl]

You gave him an ultimatum. You need to decide if YOU are okay with the result of you holding him to that ultimatum. (Kinda like with kids. Don't tell them a punishment if you have no intention of following through.) If you don't follow through, chances are he'll never take you seriously if you offer another in the future.

 

When to walk away? When the relationship brings you more pain and sadness than happiness.

 

I know it's easier said than done. Believe me! But it's true.

 

 

 

This! Bentley hit the nail on the head. Follow through. If he misses the deadline, bounce him. Then, I actually think you have a good chance he will work his butt off to get everything done. If he does, you can work this out and he will have newfound respect for you and for meeting your expectations and fulfilling his promises!

[AmyBamy]

I wish it were as simple as your reply makes it seem. I'm not ready. Hence posting here.

 

Compared to a lot of what I've read, my situation is actually pretty promising. Because of that I keep worrying that maybe I need to be just a little more patient, a little more lenient.

 

Heck, I'm possibly only a few days away from just posting in the divorce forum, complaining about how long things take or how difficult the process is.

 

A little part of me... actually screw this, yay for internet honesty. A BIG part of me wants to be told that this is the case.

 

Then you aren't ready to walk away. You are the only one who knows when you've had enough, waited long enough - you will know when you hit that point, I promise. We all have to hang on to what we want in life, what makes us happy, regardless of what anyone outside of ourselves thinks or believes. We have to do what we feel/think/believe to be right for us - and in this, we are all on our own, so you make that decision because you are the only one that has to live with it.

 

If you are anything like me, when that moment comes, you will recognize it immediately. That moment of, "this isn't worth it anymore" or "the pain/frustration outweighs any amount of good that can come from this at this point". It will be crystal clear and you can then act accordingly.

 

Hang in there, limbo is miserable, but it doesn't and cannot and will not last forever!

[AmyBamy]

Filing for D is not difficult, timing consuming or even expensive. Depending the lawyer's schedule, it is not unfathomable to meet with the lawyer at 9am and have D filed by 5pm.

 

AB said it in another thread - look for a consistent trend of action towards his ACTIONS following his WORDS.

 

And the problem becomes what you have now - the allegory of waiting for the bus. You have waited for the bus for so long - one fears that the moment one walks away the bus arrives and you miss it. So we bargain with ourselves and say "another 5 minutes" - and before we know it - the 5 minutes more is now 6 hours and the day lost.

 

The best way, imo, is to set a reasonable deadline (and in fact, HE set one himself did he not? (and missed it)) and stick to it. If, on Friday, he cannot produce separation papers (why not D?) then you NEED to end it. Block, delete, mourn, heal, recover, rejoin life.

 

To NOT do so sends a pretty clear message of - I don't REALLY mean what I say.

 

As someone who has filed for divorce, I wholeheartedly disagree with this. It was HARD, even though my ex husband had an affair - it was an admission of failure in my mind, and embarrasssing. It was also very time consuming and energy consuming for me to do so. The amount of paper work involved was ridiculous and in a weakened emotional state, it was horrid. And it was expensive. Maybe $500 isn't a lot to you, but to some people (I wasn't even 30 yet when I filed and was still struggling to become financially established) that's an entire week of pay that can't be used for food and bills.

 

I wouldn't underestimate people's reluctance to file for divorce - and I wouldn't assume the only reason is wanting to be in the marriage. It's a legal process and for most folks who aren't legal experts, it's daunting and exhausting and frustrating. Not to mention that filing is simply the tip of the iceburg - the discovery paper work is a freakin' nightmare - listing every single material posession and its worth and attempting to sift through years of combined assets and divide them fairly. And if there are children? Holy ****, it gets even more complicated.

 

I find it interesting that when it's a WS, divorce should be easy as pie - but when it's a BS, there seems to be all of these obstacles and reasons that they hesitate to file/divorce their WS. Seems odd to me that one would find it terribly easy and if they don't are cake eaters, while the other finds it incredibly difficult and stays for reasons (excuses they are often called here) that when the WS expresses them are scoffed at and disregarded. (not that you do this, I don't know if you do or not, but I see the theme here that it seems to be very different expectations depending on which part of the triangle a person happens to be in).

 

It's not easy. It is expensive. It is emotional even when you are done with the relationship. If it was easy, and fair, the divorce rate would be MUCH higher, I can promise you that.

[bentleychic]

I think how easy or hard a D is depends on your spouse and your assets. If your spouse is receptive to it, it can be fairly easy.

 

For me, once I waited the allotted time (i.e way too damn long in our state), I walked in to the lawyer, paid the money, told our marriage date, our separation date and signed the paper. They filed them that day with the court, sent the papers to (now) exH and all he had to do for the D to go through was not reply to the letter.

 

Was way easier to get divorced than it was to get married. LOL

[ichbinmich]

Thanks everyone. You're all right. It's done. He asked for more time tonight. I explained it's too late, that he should have spoken up sooner. He's known for weeks that it wouldn't be done and he didn't have the courtesy to say anything until the last minute.

 

Yes there are children, and the wife does know I exist. Technically he's not leaving her for me. They had already started the split up/work things out/repeat cycle. I do also understand the difficulties of divorce. The separation promise came about because I told him I wouldn't date a married man and that I was finished. He was the one that originally offered it to get me to stay.

 

So yep. I'm a complete mess. But I'm my own mess. Now I ignore him until I see paperwork, and go on assuming that I never will.

[whichwayisup]

He's known for weeks that it wouldn't be done and he didn't have the courtesy to say anything until the last minute.

 

He has been omitting truths from you. Red flag. And he's a coward to just tell you what is going on.

Yes there are children, and the wife does know I exist. Technically he's not leaving her for me. They had already started the split up/work things out/repeat cycle.

 

They are far from being done...And even more so because they have children together.

 

You may love him a lot but you're doing the right thing by walking away. DO NOT EVEN DATE this man or be in his life until he is officially divorced.

 

The separation promise came about because I told him I wouldn't date a married man and that I was finished. He was the one that originally offered it to get me to stay.

 

Manipulative way to keep you in his life as the OW.

Technically he's not leaving her for me

 

Actually he is. If you two never met, he wouldn't even be considering leaving and divorcing his wife. Time will really tell if he leaves and divorces regardless if you're waiting for him or not. IF he does divorce it should be because he'd rather be alone than stay married to his wife. Honestly the back and forth and the dynamic between them - they are not divorcing, even though she knows of you.

 

Sorry you're hurting.

[bentleychic]

I'm sorry you're hurting.

[ichbinmich]

Today I am angry and venting. We didn't go NC. We work together. Last night I saw him. Not a date. Just to speak. Coffee in a public place.

 

Of course he loves me and wants to be with me and there's no way in hell he is going back to his wife and he's getting the separation agreement before the end of summer. He showed me the email from the lawyer confirming all this. Of course this is all dependent upon them getting financial information together. Which could take forever. He missed our deadline date because the paperwork is daunting. The email is from 3 weeks ago. I don't know why he didn't mention this earlier and he already knew everything the email is asking for so I'm dismissing it.

 

He understands my stance and just wants me to be happy even if that means not being with me. But he really wants to be with me. He is going through with separation/divorce regardless of the end result being single or an actual relationship with me. He wants the relationship with me and is doing everything in his power to get this done quickly. He was self-berating. He was very courteous. He stayed out of my personal bubble. He apologised for trying to take my hand. He is an idiot. He should have done all this when he said he would. He's hurt me badly. Again. Third time. I've spent the past three days crying. I still love him. This is bullsh*t. I hope the anger lasts.

 

I'm taking a trip in a couple weeks until the end of August. I just have to stay angry and busy until then. Its do-able right? How do I not get my hopes up again?

 

No (yes) I'm not (I am) waiting for him. I feel pathetic.

[Nothisgirl]

Today I am angry and venting. We didn't go NC. We work together. Last night I saw him. Not a date. Just to speak. Coffee in a public place.

 

Of course he loves me and wants to be with me and there's no way in hell he is going back to his wife and he's getting the separation agreement before the end of summer. He showed me the email from the lawyer confirming all this. Of course this is all dependent upon them getting financial information together. Which could take forever. He missed our deadline date because the paperwork is daunting. The email is from 3 weeks ago. I don't know why he didn't mention this earlier and he already knew everything the email is asking for so I'm dismissing it.

 

He understands my stance and just wants me to be happy even if that means not being with me. But he really wants to be with me. He is going through with separation/divorce regardless of the end result being single or an actual relationship with me. He wants the relationship with me and is doing everything in his power to get this done quickly. He was self-berating. He was very courteous. He stayed out of my personal bubble. He apologised for trying to take my hand. He is an idiot. He should have done all this when he said he would. He's hurt me badly. Again. Third time. I've spent the past three days crying. I still love him. This is bullsh*t. I hope the anger lasts.

 

I'm taking a trip in a couple weeks until the end of August. I just have to stay angry and busy until then. Its do-able right? How do I not get my hopes up again?

 

No (yes) I'm not (I am) waiting for him. I feel pathetic.

 

Are we dating the same mm??!!

Our situations really are so very similar and i am so sorry you're in this spot. I really do know the pain and it's so hard. My (ex)mm is THE ONLY person that can take me from blissfully happy to wanting to sucker punch him (not really but ykwim) ina matter of minutes....my advice (fwiw seeing as I can't seem to follow it) Stay angry. Stay strong and keep to waiting until he can produce papers

Edited July 17, 2014 by Nothisgirl

[AmyBamy]

Today I am angry and venting. We didn't go NC. We work together. Last night I saw him. Not a date. Just to speak. Coffee in a public place.

 

Of course he loves me and wants to be with me and there's no way in hell he is going back to his wife and he's getting the separation agreement before the end of summer. He showed me the email from the lawyer confirming all this. Of course this is all dependent upon them getting financial information together. Which could take forever. He missed our deadline date because the paperwork is daunting. The email is from 3 weeks ago. I don't know why he didn't mention this earlier and he already knew everything the email is asking for so I'm dismissing it.

 

He understands my stance and just wants me to be happy even if that means not being with me. But he really wants to be with me. He is going through with separation/divorce regardless of the end result being single or an actual relationship with me. He wants the relationship with me and is doing everything in his power to get this done quickly. He was self-berating. He was very courteous. He stayed out of my personal bubble. He apologised for trying to take my hand. He is an idiot. He should have done all this when he said he would. He's hurt me badly. Again. Third time. I've spent the past three days crying. I still love him. This is bullsh*t. I hope the anger lasts.

 

I'm taking a trip in a couple weeks until the end of August. I just have to stay angry and busy until then. Its do-able right? How do I not get my hopes up again?

 

No (yes) I'm not (I am) waiting for him. I feel pathetic.

 

You aren't pathetic. There isn't a human alive who hasn't fallen in love with someone and moved their boundaries around for them. And anyone that says that they haven't is LYING. You don't have to make any decisions right this second. You have time, life ahead of you, and you will know what to do as time moves forward. Cut yourself some slack - you will know when you've waited "too long". And what's "too long" for you is only for you to decide, nobody else. Some people wait 20 years and are fine with that - some people wait 20 minutes and that's all they got. You have to decide what yours is. And you may not know you are there until you get there, and that's okay.

 

Limbo sucks. Like you, I hate being in it. I feel very insecure when I don't know how things are going to end up - but as I've gotten older, I've learned that I can't control the world and sometimes, I just have to be in limbo. Or, if the limbo is too painful/frustrating, I have the power to take myself out of it. No decision is final, and you can always reconsider or change your mind later - that's human. Hang in there, the pieces will all fall into place eventually!

[ichbinmich]

He's at the accountant filing, then he'll be contacting the lawyer and wife. Its really frustrating that I had to end things like that just to get it to happen, but it's still nice to see that something is coming out of the pain. He used his parents flat as his address (he's been staying there).

 

Are we dating the same mm??!!...

 

*hugs* I wondered the very same thing reading your posts. Isn't that crazy?!? Its very comforting to have someone practically in the same boat. Though I'm very sorry you're there too. Angry is actually turning out to be easy (no surprise there). Yesterday at work he put his hand on my back (whether habit or conscious effort, I don't know) and I threatened to break his arm

 

 

You aren't pathetic...

 

Thank you for this. The boundary moving is definitely an issue. I've changed a lot of my values for MM and in the past I would have left anyone that did even a fraction of what he has. The whole limbo thing does make me insecure. So does his actions. I know a lot of women say this, but I swear I'm never this weak and insecure usually. It's hard to not be insecure though when you're lower on someone's priority list than they are on yours.

[AmyBamy]

He's at the accountant filing, then he'll be contacting the lawyer and wife. Its really frustrating that I had to end things like that just to get it to happen, but it's still nice to see that something is coming out of the pain. He used his parents flat as his address (he's been staying there).

 

 

 

*hugs* I wondered the very same thing reading your posts. Isn't that crazy?!? Its very comforting to have someone practically in the same boat. Though I'm very sorry you're there too. Angry is actually turning out to be easy (no surprise there). Yesterday at work he put his hand on my back (whether habit or conscious effort, I don't know) and I threatened to break his arm

 

 

 

 

Thank you for this. The boundary moving is definitely an issue. I've changed a lot of my values for MM and in the past I would have left anyone that did even a fraction of what he has. The whole limbo thing does make me insecure. So does his actions. I know a lot of women say this, but I swear I'm never this weak and insecure usually. It's hard to not be insecure though when you're lower on someone's priority list than they are on yours.

 

I hear you. I don't move my boundaries for anyone either - well, almost anyone. Again, we all have that one person that we love so much that we wiggle them around a bit if we need to. I can't say what is right for you anymore than you could try to tell me what's right for me. But, what I can say is, if you feel yucky (I can't think of a better word) about moving the boundaries afterwards, then it's unhealthy and those boundaries need to be firmed up. If you only have to move them a bit, and on something that isn't a dealbreaker, and don't feel yucky, well, that's called compromise.

 

There is only one man in this world that I will even slightly move my boundary for, and that's exMM. Nobody before him has ever even made me consider it. I think that when you meet those people in your life that you connect with, on a level that is so rare, that you realize it quickly, even if it's not a consciously thought out thought. That spark that happens, can cause us to do some things that we would never otherwise do, ever. Healthy? Well, that depends on the situation and don't let anyone try to give you some cookie cutter answer on right/wrong from behind the windows of their very own glass house.

[jwi71]

He's at the accountant filing, then he'll be contacting the lawyer and wife. Its really frustrating that I had to end things like that just to get it to happen, but it's still nice to see that something is coming out of the pain. He used his parents flat as his address (he's been staying there).

 

So this means he actually filed for D today?

...and, while NOT damning as an isolated incident, be wary of patterns of behavior. For instance, having to be "forced" into this filing by an ultimatum. It suggests indecision.

*hugs* I wondered the very same thing reading your posts. Isn't that crazy?!? Its very comforting to have someone practically in the same boat. Though I'm very sorry you're there too. Angry is actually turning out to be easy (no surprise there). Yesterday at work he put his hand on my back (whether habit or conscious effort, I don't know) and I threatened to break his arm

 

Not crazy - all A's are different. And they're all the same. There is a certain script followed and behaviors repeated. This is simply your realization that your situation and MM are not special or unique but rather conforming to the larger pattern of the "A lifecycle".

 

This does NOT mean you do NOT get happily ever after -some A's do follow the script and pattern and, for us reading, break it and the AP's marry and so on.

 

And, the best chance of "happy ever after" appears to follow the decisive MM - aka, the guy/gal who moves quickly and resolutely.

 

Thank you for this. The boundary moving is definitely an issue. I've changed a lot of my values for MM and in the past I would have left anyone that did even a fraction of what he has. The whole limbo thing does make me insecure. So does his actions. I know a lot of women say this, but I swear I'm never this weak and insecure usually. It's hard to not be insecure though when you're lower on someone's priority list than they are on yours.

 

Agreed- we ALL move boundaries - we tend to talk ourselves into it.

The question is one of degree and "seriousness" in the boundary being moved. Is it a one time little move? Or a pattern of retreat?

 

I would pay attention to the fact that one notices the boundaries being as a red flag.

[MatchStick]

You are doing the right thing for yourself. Don't be the band-aid for his marriage. Often times, when you stop being the band-aid, the marriage falls apart pretty quickly. If it doesn't, then at least you are in a better spot and can find someone that is willing to give you what you want, which is a full time relationship, not an affair. Especially considering he has told you that this is what he is going to do.

 

Hang in there and try to take care of you. If he doesn't come through, it's just the end of a relationship, not the end of the world, even if it feels like it for a minute. Trust that everything happens exactly as it is supposed to because these things have a way of working out exactly the way they are supposed to.

 

 

I couldn't say it better than AmyBamy/