<Hypothetical:> Friend is an adulterer

[chucksagent]

Hypo: Your spouse (male or female) had a friend 12 years ago who they were close with. This friend was married...you knew and were friends with the spouse...at the time, this friend started cheating on the spouse you were all friendly with with another guy you all did community theater with. You never ratted the friend out even though you felt horrible. The friend had some kids and you lost touch - never too upset about it because you lost respect with the adultery (yes, the adulterer LEFT the spouse after several months and MARRIED the person they cheated with...had kids...etc...NOW, shock of the century, the NEW spouse who the friend cheated with HAD AN AFFAIR with another member of the community theater {shocking when history repeats itself, right?}

 

NOW, 12 years later, since that new spouse who the friend cheated with is leaving with the new lover, the FRIEND reaches out and wants have YOU console them. Wants to meet up and talk.

 

Do you think it's fair to your husband/wife to rekindle a friendship with such a morally devoid person? OR, do you think since it's been 12 years, and it's (arguably) disrespectful to your current spouse to associate with people like that, you should decline the invite?

 

Thanks in advance!

[PegNosePete]

Who cares what your spouse thinks? Why would you WANT to rekindle a friendship with, as you put it, "such a morally devoid person"?

 

The only consoling I would give him is to tell him that you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

[central]

I would be there for a current friend (not an acquaintance), but I would not renew an old friendship in these circumstances.

[Elle1975]

All this talk in the second person made it unnecessarily hard to read.

So wait a minute see if I get it right.

 

Let's say you're male.

 

Your wife was friend with a guy who cheated on his wife. She broke the friendship over it, and now the "blast from the past" friend is reaching out to her. You're worried about this guy trying to get your wife?

[chucksagent]

Nope. My wife has a female friend from the past. The female friend from the past was the adulterer and NOW she is shocked that the home wrecking man who took her from her first husband, did the SAME thing to her with a new woman. I just don't love the idea of my wife hanging out with this immoral person who JUST got divorced and now has time for her.

Edited July 16, 2014 by chucksagent

[carhill]

Having been in this milieu for many years, and taking the gossip with a large grain of salt, I'd fall back on verification. If the alleged adulterer solicited me directly or I experienced other verifiable proof of inappropriate behaviors, I'd discuss that, and our marital boundaries of association, with my spouse. Otherwise, and even after discussion, my spouse is a mature adult and able to make her own decisions about whom she (and we as a married couple) associate with. Had I been solicited directly, I'd likely decline to socialize with the person and explain why. Any disagreements on that issue would be a marital problem between ourselves and have nothing to do with another party. We'd have a fundamental boundary issue to resolve.

[chucksagent]

Oh this isn't gossip...it's a known fact in the community this girl cheated on her husband with the guy she was in the play with. My issue is that is undesirable behavior; my wife stopped talking to her for over a decade (not BECAUSE of that, but life in general) and now that the adulterer is Divorced she wants my wife to spring back into the wingman seat. It just doesn't seem right to me...on any level.

[carhill]

So, in that case, show me the court document, video, transcription or other evidence that infidelity occurred. What I'm getting at here is that people lie; yep, adulterers lie but people, in general, also lie, and build upon lies with more lies. It's what people do. That alleged adulterer could lie about bedding some married man simply to sully his reputation or prevent a certain event from happening, like being elected to a political office or receiving a promotion or any other of a myriad of social hacks that go on every day in the world. Never underestimate the guile and deceit which people can bring to your doorstep.

 

Should you physically or emotionally restrain your fully mature and independent spouse from associating with another person due to this 'fact'? Up to you. Myself, I have no control over anyone but me. People do what they do. Sure, I can make choices regarding whom to associate with or whom to be married to but that doesn't affect anyone but me. Billions make those choices every day and the world we see is the result.

 

My vote is to have confidence in your wife that she is a wise and mature woman, socially aware, and can make her own decisions in life. If she proves to show otherwise, remember 'proves', then take action according to boundaries at that time.

[Clay]

Tell her to bring her friend over to the house. Show the friend alot of attention. Once your wife sees her friend flirting with you she will put that friendship to rest.

 

Just kidding.

 

I personally would just stay away from her I doubt any good will come from her being around.

 

Clay

[chucksagent]

Maybe I am explaining this poorly: Here are the facts plain and simple.

 

12 years ago, my wife had a friend. That friend and her did community theatre together. That friend was married. My wife, and all their friends, thought a lot of the husband of her female friend (he was a good guy, good provider, etc.). Well, during the show (community theater), my wifes friend (the female married woman) started messing around with another guy in the show. Everyone felt terrible and didn't like it, but they didn't try and stop them OR tell her husband (who they claimed to like and was not involved in community theater so was clueless).

 

After several months of hooking up with this guy behind her husbands back, she FINALLY told him and divorced him to be with this new guy. After marrying the new guy who she cheated on her husband with, my wife lost touch with her (This is YEARS before my wife and I even met...my wife and I have only been together 5 years)...In this time frame, the friend had two children...NOW, just MONTHS ago, her husband (the new husband she cheated with all those years ago) "allegedly" started cheating on her again with a girl he did a show in community theater with. He then left her to be with the girl (allegedly). So now, she is alone, with two kids, and calling my wife after not really talking and NEVER hanging out for 11 or 12 years.

 

I just want to avoid a situation where this girl expects to use my wife's beauty and charm to help her get men. A lot of women when they get divorced do this EXACT thing...expect their female friends to just fall in line as if they were best friend this entire time...when it wasn't even CLOSE to the case. Not to mention, I am not sure how comfortable I am with my wife hanging out with a woman of that moral turpitude. I don't hang out with guys like that...none of my friends cheat on their wives or girlfriends... I don't know you people, I have nothing to gain by lying about what my friends do.

[chucksagent]

CLAY - You and I think alike my friend...that was my EXACT Logical deduction in this case...TO THE LETTER!

 

"I personally would just stay away from her I doubt any good will come from her being around."

 

Even if we can all agree there is a 0.01% chance ANYTHING bad would happen from this...she and the girl didn't talk for 11 or 12 years?!?! Obviously they can't mean that much to her...therefore, isn't it logical and reasonable to say ONLY bad can come of it? Because there is ONLY risk and NO reward!!!

[Clay]

I would just tell your wife how you feel about it. Let her decides if she wants to continue her friendship with her old friend. If she does you know what your getting into. You can't stop your wife but there is nothing that says she will cheat. She of course will just be putting a strain on her marriage with you and your just going to have to deal with that. If my wife went out and hang out with a cheater I would probably be concerned too.

 

Clay

[serial muse]

Well, what does your wife have to say about it? That seems to be the elephant in the room here.

 

I agree with carhill: Your wife is an adult. It's understandable that you would want to make a choice not to associate with this person, but your wife should make her own choices, and presumably would have her own reasons for doing so. And I'd assume that, as you married her, you think highly of her, too, and respect her ability to make those choices.

 

I think it's also worth pointing out to you that you are working yourself into a state with some assuming here - unless there's more you aren't telling us about the situation, you don't really know that this woman is trying to latch onto your wife as a wingman. You don't even know the woman personally. All you know is that she's reached out to your wife. Maybe she had a change of heart. Maybe she's hurting and has realized her mistake in letting a good friendship fail, not to mention a good relationship. Maybe their friendship consisted of more than going out and scoping out men? Maybe your wife could be a good influence on her. Maybe maybe maybe.

 

I would caution you against creating unnecessary drama here, in the form of choosing your wife's path for her and then taking it further and seeing it as "disrespectful" if she disagrees with you. Eek, no. What basis is there for that? Why not trust her, instead? She's given you no reason not to, from what you've said. (Although to be fair, you haven't said anything about your wife's point of view at all, on the matter.)

Edited July 16, 2014 by serial muse

[PegNosePete]

So now, she is alone, with two kids, and calling my wife after not really talking and NEVER hanging out for 11 or 12 years.

My question still stands. Why on earth does your wife want to hang out with someone who used to be a friend but was morally devoid and hasn't seen for so long? Have you asked your wife why she is even interested in talking to her ex-friend?

[chucksagent]

I finally asked my wife again to explain why she wants to do this. She said because she feels bad for her and wants to be there for her. She said because her sister (my wifes sister) went through a Divorce with 2 kids and she knows how hard it is on both the kids and the mom, and since this adulterer friend has 2 children and not a lot of friends or family, she wants to be there for her if she can be.

 

This is becoming an issue because I am using intelligence and she is using emotion. I am saying what is "Smart" and she is saying what she "feels." Therefore, neither one of us is WRONG...we are just looking at the same situation differently. My only problem is, emotion is what got this adulterer into this situation in the first place. Emotion can be dangerous. Intelligent decision making is what protects marriage, friendships, just general life...etc.

[Andy_K]

For what it's worth, I'd support your wife's feelings on this one. Sure, the friend has done some bad things. Ignoring her would be the easy thing to do. But people do change. Maybe she has, and maybe she hasn't, but if you believe your wife has the strength of character to not be influenced by her friends poor morals, then you've no more to worry about her association than you would if she was helping out at a young offenders institute or drug rehab clinic

 

Some people just like to help, who are you to say who 'deserves' it?

[chucksagent]

I just like to play the odds in life; and it has ALWAYS served me well.

 

Yes, people CAN change. But what % of people in their 40's or older ACTUALLY change? If I want to be liberal on my estimate I could agree to 25-30% actually change. Most people are what they are. "I ams what I ams" ~ Popeye "A Leopard can't change it's spots."

 

Personally,I agree with those sayings...I DEF 100% think its possible to change, just not probably. And I ALWAYS go with the probably in situations where nothing is to be gained. My wife IS easily influenced by her friends (trivial stuff, probably wouldn't be for adultery, I would hope lol)

 

But you are right about her helping her...if it means a lot to my wife and makes her feel good to help someone in need, I am in no position to tell her what to do. Conversely, because I operate in facts and intelligent behavior and fairness to the "We" of marriage, not I....if roles were reversed, and she was concerned...I would easily be able to identify the reasonable concern and would put MY WIFES concerns about that of a person I hadn't spoken to or seen for 12 years! Lol. But then again, I am practical.

[RonaldS]

Instead of superfluously worrying about irrelevant details, you need to be working on a way to parlay this into a threesome.

[GoBlue]

I understand the concern the situation you describe would cause, but the whole "emotion" vs "intelligence" argument might best stay inside of yourself. It sounds like you believe your wife is being "unintelligent and emotional" while you are being "intelligent and unemotional". That may not sit so well with your wife, besides, your emotions are more involved that you appear to let on.

 

Marriage develops and grows through communication and conflict resolution. I am pretty sure that you do not want to be defined for the entirety of your life by a bad decision or a mistake from your past. Are you listening to your wife and hearing her heart? Are you giving her enough credit to be able to make good decisions and protect the health of your marriage? I don't know what the right or wrong answer is but I do know that the process by which you and your wife come to a decision can help determine the health of your own relationship.

[chucksagent]

Blue - You make really good points, especially about healthy and efficient conflict resolution.

 

My concern is the classic "We have all made mistakes." I simply don't define an ONGOING marital affair as a mistake.

 

A mistake is something you make when you are UNSURE of whether it's right or wrong.

 

"Oh crap, I forget the formula for this math problem, I think it's this. WRONG. Oops I made a mistake."

 

"Jimmy lives 5 blocks past the mobile station." "You told me it was 4 blocks last week! I was lost!" "Oops, sorry, I made a mistake."

 

CHOOSING...to take advantage of your husbands trust by being out of the house 4 nights a week and 1 day on the weekend for community theater (which nobody gets paid to do, all volunteer) spending that time with OTHER MEN, often are GOOD LOOKING and SINGLE...and you CHOOSE to be flirty with a guy in the cast....and then you CHOOSE to start having sexual relations with one that man..OVER and OVER again...AND THEN YOU CHOOSE to leave your husband...and then you CHOOSE to marry the home wrecker man...THAT IS JUST BAD LIFE CHOICES. That isn't a MISTAKE. I honestly get really annoyed when people compare cheating to making a mistake.

 

The ONLY time I will ever consider cheating a "mistake" (and often times even in this circumstance I think it's BS), is if you get REALLY drunk and it's random, and you stop as soon as it starts. Even then, not justified AT ALL, but then it's ONE, BAD, CHOICE, which arguably is a mistake. Mentally though, I process it as "Going to a bar....getting black out drunk...filled with single women..." WAS THE MISTAKE. I don't agree with married people behaving like single people. But I am an old soul. I belong in a different generation. To me, when you MARRY someone, you owe them and your marriage a certain duty of car.

 

And even in her situation in the past, you guys will call me jealous and controlling, but I even think doing community theater which is so demanding is unfair and not a good idea. Kids, husband, personal time, house work, relaxation...how do you fit in 4 weeknights and 1 weekend day of practice PLUS memorizing lines PLUS all your personal responsibilities. So even THAT you can argue was a mistake, joining THEATRE. The adultery, the divroce, the marrying the scum bag home wrecker, are all choices....Choices are different than mistakes.

[GoBlue]

"Mistakes" are usually the way we define "choices" after the fact and realize what a truly horrible decision we made. I do understand your concerns but it kind of sounds like you think she needs to be punished continuously and permanently for the rest of her life because of her affair. She is suffering because of her choices this very moment...I am old school as well - marriage should be honored and respected and given priority above all other things except our relationship with God. I simply know that if I were not forgiven for my past choices (old school enough to call them "sins") I don't know how I would be able to function now and have hope for the future. I thank God for my friends who were there for me - they are essential cogs in where I am today.

[kaylan]

Nope. My wife has a female friend from the past. The female friend from the past was the adulterer and NOW she is shocked that the home wrecking man who took her from her first husband, did the SAME thing to her with a new woman. I just don't love the idea of my wife hanging out with this immoral person who JUST got divorced and now has time for her.

 

I can see why you feel this way. I am usually a believer in the idea that people are similar to the company they keep. So it would rub me the wrong way for my woman to have low quality friends. Id especially not like the idea of my girl being so willing to accept a friend who didnt take to her in so long. Id prefer my wife to tell this false friend to buzz off, but I dont control her thoughts or actions.

 

Also, Ive read stories of wayward divorced women being bad influences on married women...so again...another reason why I understand your not liking this situation. Personally I wouldnt be afraid to tell my wife what I think of her friend. But just keep a keen eye out for now I guess.

[chucksagent]

Kaylan - You said it better than I ever could have....

 

1) EVERYONE is judged by the company you keep. Even psychologically, they say "if you want to be rich, surround yourself with millionaires." You are naive if you don't think the types of people you hang out with influence you (for good AND for bad). It's part of life. "Guilty by association."

 

2) Why be so quick to put yourself out there for someone who didn't care about you for sooooooo long?

 

3) Why risk upsetting your marriage for a person like this who has MADE her choices, knowingly...

 

It doesn't make any sense.