Sorta GF ignoring me

[imkeysersoze]

Hey guys,

 

I've recently been involved with a girl who was dating a guy I used to be decent friends with. They dated 2.5 years, and broke up mostly because he was mentally abusive and she finally got sick of it. Knowing me well thru him, we ended up talking and starting to hang out. Once we were alone, we hit it off really well and got involved quickly. From some bad relationships in my past, I don't have ANY patience for games, or dishonesty; it's worked out great because we've been completely upfront and talked through any issues we've faced so far.

 

She goes to school during the week, and has a 3 year old from a previous relationship, so she's got a busy weekly schedule. As such, it's become standard to chill every Friday and usually Saturday or Sunday alone (dad takes the kid on the weekends), and possibly see her during the day before night classes during the week.

 

One thing we haven't done is have sex yet. We mess around, but haven't gone that far. About 6 weeks ago, after getting stopped when I tried to advance it for the 2nd time in as many weeks, I basically decided to back off until she felt comfortable. Well, cue 4th of July weekend, she comes over, we start drinking, and we almost have sex. She keeps pulling back at the last second, telling me that 99% of her knows I'm a great guy and to move forward, and that 1% of her brain is just telling her she'll be crushed and hurt if she moves forward again. She also tells me she's been on the fence for 2 months (without me knowing), and that she's also worried how it will re-define our relationship or expectations. Along with that, she's had the same drawbacks emotionally. I've taken things very slow, and have gotten constant praise and lines like "I worry constantly that one day all your patience is going to end and you won't deal with it" to which I've reassured her.

 

Well, she leaves last weekend, and we had a great time. It's fairly typical for us to text heavily most days. Since Saturday afternoon, we've exchanged maybe a dozen texts. She's not completely ignoring me, but just about. The texts aren't negative or with attitude as if she's mad....just very short. For the first few days I just trailed off texting back when she did. I finally asked on Tuesday night if I had done something wrong, or if she was just really busy. She didn't answer, but did reply when I texted her "good night dear" a few hours later. She won't answer my calls, and finally today told me she's been stressed all week but won't elaborate, and trails off texting back again.

 

I told her that I wanted to help her out, but it was hard since she was shutting me out. I also brought up that she's never done this in 4 months of us together, and it's very atypical. I ended it by saying that if shes busy or just needs some space, to tell me. But if it was something else, to just please talk to me. Nothing back yet.

 

So what's going on? I've had friends tell me its one of three things:

1) another guy

2) not interested anymore

3) too close too quick and she's backstepping

 

Obviously nobody expects to get cheated on/dumped for someone else, but one of the earliest things we've stressed is how we'd be upfront if we ever had any interest in other people or our mutual interest wore off. Along with that, she affirmed how she was clearly interested and monogamous with me as of Saturday. I'm basically giving her all the outs in the world to tell me what's up, and she's not taking them. Along with that, I have her Dad's laptop here that I was fixing for him and have been trying to return (along with a ****load of her clothes), and she hasn't reached out for any of that, so I see that as a somewhat good sign.

 

Ultimately, just trying to figure out both what she's doing, and the best way to fix **** (if its still possible :-/)

Edited July 17, 2014 by imkeysersoze

[Justaguy30]

I could be wrong about this but the no sex thing for that long sort of makes it seem like she is sleeping with someone else. She is definitely losing interest and the thing about her ex being mentally abusive... Perhaps you should ask him how he felt about that. He could have been upset all the time because she ignored him like she is ignoring you and then making it sound like she is stressed or who knows. Sounds to me like she is/ has been seeing someone else. Best of luck and don't take my word for it but that is where I would go with this.

[Justaguy30]

Also if you want her to regain interest stop texting her all the time. Just leave it alone and seem less interested yourself. That should do the trick, if it does if I were you I would ask why she doesn't want to have sex because normally when people are interested in each other like you have said they are screwing. I should add that you texting her did you do something wrong and getting no response is a bad sign. That means she isn't really sure what to say and the stress thing is BS.

[imkeysersoze]

I could be wrong about this but the no sex thing for that long sort of makes it seem like she is sleeping with someone else. She is definitely losing interest and the thing about her ex being mentally abusive... Perhaps you should ask him how he felt about that. He could have been upset all the time because she ignored him like she is ignoring you and then making it sound like she is stressed or who knows. Sounds to me like she is/ has been seeing someone else. Best of luck and don't take my word for it but that is where I would go with this.

 

Originally the sex thing was because she just wasn't ready to do it mentally apparently. As I said, I dropped the issue, and then she brought it back up two weekends ago, making it into an active issue. I was cool with going super slow, but she basically said "I'm on the fence about it" after we got really hot and heavy in the neighborhood pool. And then also revealed later that night that it wasn't just that day, but for 2 months she'd been almost ready when I was thinking she wasn't that along.

 

As far as the ex, not an option. First, he hates me knowing I'm involved with her. Secondly, we had a separate falling out BECAUSE he's a piece of **** generally. I've seen him with multiple girlfriends, he is a confirmed piece of ****, not something she did. Haha

[imkeysersoze]

Went to bring the laptop back today. She was talking to me, but something was clearly bothering her. Returned the laptop to her dad, asked her to walk me outside. She wouldn't tell me what was wrong, said she needed another day or two to get her thoughts together to ensure she didn't screw up her words. Tried to kiss her goodbye, and got the half hug and had to settle for a head kiss.

 

This was the text exchange right after I left. So that's it, right? I'm grasping at straws trying to make an out, but this is why she's been so distant, preparing herself for this. Move on, I suppose?

 

Me: "I just ask two things, J. One, that when we talk you do it in person. Two, please do it soon; the uncertainty and everything is really really hurting me. I really like you and would do ANYTHINg in the world to try and make things work. Hope to hear from you soon."

J: "I know, and I'm not trying to hurt you. I told you from the get I wasn't dating and I wasn't going to. Everything I did or saw or said revolved around K, he made a mess of me as you clearly saw. But at the end of the day, no matter what I did or said to try and forget him, I still loved him. I still love him. I've known I've pretended and tried not to. But I still can't shake him, it isn't fair to you because I'm still stuck on him and I doubt that will change."

Me: "Look, I know you're still stuck on K. You've gotten much better in the past month or two than the first ones, but I KNOW the pain and the longing is still there. I've had people stuck in my head for a long time and we didn't have a tenth of the history you guys do. What is comes down to is this: if you're being 100% honest, not much has changed.

 

Is it what it sounds like, just a longing? Or is it something you're trying to pursue/already involved with again? Just be honest with me. I can also tell you seem a bit uncomfortable how far forward we've moved in the last few weeks; my desire to move forward doesn't compare to my desire to make things work.

 

So what it really comes down to is this: I'm willing to accept that you don't think that will change, and even if it goes to ****, every single day with you is worth it. So the only thing I'm going to accept is you telling me flat out that you don't like me well enough, that the risk isn't worth the reward, that you don't wanna fight to try and make things work.

 

If you can call me up and tell that, I can move on knowing there is nothing more to do. But damn if that's not the case let me try and make this work...you mean too much to me.

[Art_Critic]

Move on, I suppose?

 

 

IMO... she is giving it up to someone else..

 

Yes.. move on...totally.. don't become the orbiter that you are now...

[imkeysersoze]

Yea, I think she's involved with the baby daddy. He's been around the house way too much lately, and the story is fishy as to why. My guess is that she's actually banging him but figures telling me she's just stuck on the ex I've always known about let's me down easier.

 

EJECT

[imkeysersoze]

Found out it was the ex. She's been at least seeing him a little bit. She told me she's still in love with him (which I had suspicions), but it all kind of came to a head recently.

 

Both the emotional and sex stuff was pressuring her as to where our relationship stood. Along with that, she described things as her life has been going great, between school, her child, me, family, and other personal issues she was addressing, but she felt a void. So her words were that she figures that going back to him for closure is her best move. Even if it doesn't work out, she thinks the person who caused all her wounds and mental issues is the one person who can best help her work through it. She felt it wasn't fair to me to both keep me waiting in the wings, and also to have me essentially on hold as she can't get her head together.

 

I see her in person for good tomorrow to return some things, but she already started with the "you're one in a million", "i DON'T want you out of my life". As I said, I'm pretty sure the reason she was so cagey is because she's having trouble facing me. It probably made it easier to decide which guy when she didn't have to actually face me in person. Same reason she texted me this today instead of telling me in person...she was clearly distressed about it all. Guess that's it then, just need to prepare myself to stay away when she inevitably comes crawling back when the ****head crushes her again.

[todreaminblue]

the only way to be sure someone is over there ex is to know there arent feelings of any kind there not extreme hate, not extreme love she has made it really obvious she isnt over her ex you have to let her go.....deb

[Justaguy30]

I have been through dating someone who wasn't over their ex and the problem is no one is going to come first until they are. If you are in love with someone who isn't in your life and dating say you, she isn't going to show you the respect that you deserve because she doesn't love you. She is playing games in any event so move on.

[Justaguy30]

As a rule of thumb if someone any gender who is an adult isn't sleeping with you for long periods of time they are likely sleeping with someone else. Everyone is different but I have been in that situation and know a lot of people that have. If she or he isn't giving it up they are giving it to someone else.. Plain and simple

[imkeysersoze]

As a rule of thumb if someone any gender who is an adult isn't sleeping with you for long periods of time they are likely sleeping with someone else. Everyone is different but I have been in that situation and know a lot of people that have. If she or he isn't giving it up they are giving it to someone else.. Plain and simple

 

Generally I'd agree with you. In this case, I don't think she was. I think the breakup (and more importantly, the fairly recent abortion too) really just had her in a place where she didn't want to do that. Granted, I think at this point she's had sex with him in the time they've been talking, which I'm guessing is the last two weeks or so based on what she's said. If anything, how horny she had to be from almost doing it the few times and not following thru probably didn't help matters.

 

In any case, what's done is done. I think she's making a foolish move. She had a ring on her finger and a baby in her belly and STILL decided that the abuse and bull**** from him wasn't worth it. That's some heavy stuff. But obviously the lack of progress with us, along with longing for him, has led her to believe it's a sign that she should go back. I do hope she's happy, but I can't stick around while I either watch them be happy or him destroy her once again.

 

Thanks for all your help, folks.

[Downtown]

It's eerie as hell reading your whole post [about BPD behavior] because it describes her to a T. [From Embedded Cortex's thread.]

Perhaps so, Keyser (aka, Usual Suspects). If so, I'm glad you found the information helpful. After reading all your posts, however, I find that you are describing behavior typical for a woman on the rebound -- not for a BPDer. If you are interested, I provide a list of BPD red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Keyser.

[imkeysersoze]

Thanks

 

Perhaps so, Keyser (aka, Usual Suspects). If so, I'm glad you found the information helpful. After reading all your posts, however, I find that you are describing behavior typical for a woman on the rebound -- not for a BPDer. If you are interested, I provide a list of BPD red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Keyser.

 

Downtown, thanks for the additional post. After doing some evaluation, now that things have calmed down and I'm in a much more rational headspace, I agree with your current sentiment. While I feel she pings on an above average amount of warning signs for a BPDer, the more I think about it, the more I'm just not entirely sure it's an accurate description of the situation. As time goes on, she seems more and more like it was just a rebound situation. Let me fill you in on what happened since my last posts.

 

 

How It Ended

 

In one of my most recent posts here, I described one of the frustrating parts being that she had many so many positive changes, and so this one single mistake didn't mesh with all the other good decisions she's made as of late. Well, it actually seems like it was more of a harbinger of bad things to come. During our time together, I saw her once, maybe twice during weekdays for a few daytime hours, usually all night Friday, and then MAYBE the day/the night on Saturday or Sunday. Instead, I communicated with her dad during last weekend to attempt to bring over her clothes and go over and get my house key, and she spent from Friday morning thru Sunday night with the ex, except for a few limited hours of coming home to shower and get fresh clothes.

 

As such, the next time I was able to see her was Monday afternoon, when her dad told me she was awake and still home and I could surprise her before she left again. I showed up at their house, went in the back porch to talk to her, and asked one simple task: for her to simply look at me and tell me, eye to eye, that this is what she really wanted to do. She did so, I asked for my house key, and gave her clothes back to her. I told her I truly wanted her to be happy, but I felt she was making a terrible mistake (to which she replied her parents concurred with me), and that I couldn't wait around for her to be emotionally destroyed again. I handed her a letter I had written to her in an envelope, turned away from her as she asked what it was, and walked inside the house. I shook her father's hand, and went home. That was the last time we spoke, and the last time I intend to speak to her barring some miracle.

 

Cracks In The Foundation

 

Later in the week (Wednesday?), a mutual friend told me I really would want to look at Facebook. I login and I see 3-4 posts from her Facebook account all similar to this theme. She hardly posts ANYTHING and never anything dramatic, so this was quite a surprise. From what I can gather, her dad said her and the ex have already started fighting, because someone called him and said she was with another guy? Or a guy was in her car with her? Funny enough, I had nothing to do with any of this, although her post makes a lot of insinuations and references that sound like they are about me:

 

I had to specifically download the fb app for this drama! I don't say much, nor do much or talk to anyone, but this **** is ****ing with my happiness! This is to the funny guys who called my baby's phone. STEP UP! COME FORWARD! YOU INSECURE LITTLE F*** just because you didn't get a piece, and wouldn't ever because anyone who was anyone knows who my heart belongs to! And if you wanna say you had me, lying isn't going to help you, step up, you know who you are. No one, not one person in just over four months ever came close to this and could never mount to what he is, my soul mate, my ride and die, my baby, the baby daddy that never was, but it was his! I'll blast it, I'll throw myself nder the bus for him, only him. STEP UP COME FORWARD AND SHOW YOURSELF, if you ever cared about me or him whomever you are, just know, you just messed with their happiness. I cant plead enough, how much you are ****ing torturing me. You are taking away the one last piece of happiness i had. Without him, I'm done!! I'm so over this life and you stupid mother ****er who ever you are, i hope you are ****ing happy that you have ruined a life, possibly three lives and one of them being my four year old, my perfect, beautiful, amazingly smart daughter, because you don't know the ripple effect you just caused! If my daughter has to be without a mommy, her very own biological mother, so God help me, help you! If you have any remorse, even if its for her, step up! Step up, dont call on a private or rather blocked number just shows that you're pussy! Step Up!!!

 

Downslide

 

Well, I saw her parents on Thursday, as they are all going to New Jersey, and I'll be changing food for their cats and getting their mail during the week, a favor I promised before this drama occurred, and something I agreed to hold up both because they're going to pay me for my troubles, and because it's for her family, not her. One primary reason crazy and her ex broke up originally is because she felt the ex spent too much time dedicated to his new business (an e-cig shop). As it turns out, ex's mother was evicted from her home, and then ex's grandmother finally kicked out both him and his mother from HER home. He's living on the floor of his e-cig shop, and I guess that's where she is now spending her time whenever she's not at her parents' home (which is often considering the constant fighting with her parents now who hate the ex). It also sounds like a terrible place for a 4-year old, which is why her dad is sincerely considering assisting the father of the child in pursuing full custody as he is beginning to believe she's an unfit mother.

 

I'm sure the next thing that will start to go is her grades, which were nearly straight As with an occasional B, but only when she had put in tons of effort, and had great balance between her school work and her social life, such as when she was with me. Now she's spending huge amounts of time with the ex, not studying, probably missing classes too, and that will be the next thing to go. The last bit to add, is that she is actively visiting a methadone clinic; she has/had an H/opiate addiction, and has been treating it with methadone for the last few months. This is another scar from her relationship with the ex. He is apparently totally clean now, so who knows what will happen there. Knowing him, either one of two things happen: they both start using again and she gets addicted once again. Or he stays clean, but won't tolerate her using methadone, at which point she prolly starts using again anyway. Another mess waiting to happen, particularly without her huge base of friend and familial support to assist her.

 

Conclusion

 

On one hand, it feels like karma serving up some ice cold revenge for a ****ty move on her part. On the other hand, I truly feel bad. I thought going back to the Ex was just a single error in a sea of good decisions. Instead, it seems she's actively starting to self-destruct every other aspect of her life in grand fashion, after spending 4 months working so hard to fix it all. To recap:

• She's back with the ex. "Who better to address my still open emotional wounds than the person who caused them?" Yea...how about ANYONE?
  
• Rather than spending most of her time at home and a rare night or two at my place, she's spending most nights sleeping on the floor of an e-cig shop in one of the most crime-riddled areas of town.
  
• She went from barely using Facebook to occasionally connect with friends, to posting rambling rants that insinuate some level of mental instability (the part about her kid growing up without her mother?), at the prospect of losing someone she just barely started talking to again. Her tone and word choice is nothing like anything she would have ever said during our time together. It comes across as borderline "hood" or "gangster"...which isn't her personality at all nor in line with how she ever talked.
  
• Her relationship with her parents was mostly patched up, and now it's effectively destroyed again.
  
• Her daughter is now being exposed to this toxic environment. Anytime she sleeps over at the ex's shop during the week, that entails she'll be doing it with her daughter. As I mentioned, even her own father is considering giving his support (both emotionally and LEGALLY) to the father of the child in pursuing full custody as he has serious concerns for her well-being and the mental state of his daughter.
  
• Her class attendance has started to suffer, as has her study habits. Next thing to be affected is her grades, assuming she seems this program (a medical field, so very rigorous) through to completion anyway.
  

 

I figured I'd fill you all in, as this situation went from a bit crazy to like nuclear-grade retarded. I don't know if I should feel like I dodged a bullet, or like I should feel bad that I wasn't good enough to keep this girl on the right path, or maybe a bit of both? Is there anything to do or say to try and make her see what she's doing to herself? I say that, not in an attempt to help my own situation; I say this purely out of concern for her own well being at this point. Or is my only recourse at this point to microwave a bag of popcorn, break out the salt, and enjoy the show? Thanks all!

Edited July 26, 2014 by imkeysersoze
added additional quotes from crazypants

[NoLeafClover]

There is no relationship to start here...you went to hit on your boys girl. That's a street code that you broke..... were you guys thinking of holding hands and skipping when he comes around or play it off like you don't know why she's sitting next to you?

 

 

She is not having sex with you cause she feels guilty or dirty since she's sleeping with someone else already.... you mean to tell me you tickle each others genitals and she doesn't think that's the next level yet..... so she wants to wait for sex to make it right? Ha I raise my case.

 

 

I always stop texting a lot to my backup women when someone more interesting comes along.

 

 

 

 

She will come around sooner or later with sorry I been busy like nothing has happened.

[imkeysersoze]

Nah, that's not how it happened to start with. They split around the same time me and the friend had been drifting over a few months (he's very self centered and became obsessed with said shop at the cost of ALL interpersonal relationships, both with his girl and his boys). I didn't even speak to her until 4-6 weeks after they had split, and at that point, it was strictly on a friends level (to help her find some buds to smoke since he had always had their connects). It wasn't until 3-4 more times hanging out past that initial convo that I finally acknowledged the signs she was throwing out at me, and did so knowing the cost would be my friendship (which was dwindling anyway) with him.

 

As far as everything else, I suppose I was a backup, or a rebound, or whatever. Certainly didn't seem that way at the time, but that's my fault for not catching all the warning signs, or rather I suppose at least catching them but figuring they would fade away into normalcy as time went on. In any case, I'm past that, with all this we couldn't go back to normal even if she wanted to. And as far as the "more interesting thing came along", the only part that I don't get is that he's been there the whole time. He's been messaging her and calling her to get her back since day 1, so it's not like he just came back in the picture. Along with that, SHE was the dumper, so she's been in the driver's seat the whole time.

 

More, it's about the total crazy **** she's done as of late. Not as the guy who wanted to date her, not even as the guy who wants to **** her...purely as someone who has concern for other human beings, particularly ones I've come to get close to, I'm genuinely worried about her. Going back to the ex was a dumb move, but definitely predictable given all the facts. But the complete self-destruction of her education, her daughter's safety, her family relationship, her own mental health, and now finally the thinly veiled **** about her own health ("If my daughter has to be without a mommy") is just way worrying. I guess I'm looking to vent, I told her I was cutting her out of my life and not watching her get emotionally destroyed again, but it seems like I've been booked a front row seat anyway for the show.

Edited July 26, 2014 by imkeysersoze