Being a Band Aid

[Sasha1/2]

Neither of us had ever cheated before. I met Locke 11 months ago on a dating site for married people. My family life is shambles due to numerous major stressors. He has a marriage that has been sexless for five years and young kids. We both thought we wanted a friends-with-benefits relationship. We enjoyed a few weeks of friendly chatting and phone calls and then we agreed to meet.

 

 

I backed out of our meeting a couple days beforehand stating that it would be morally wrong to meet him. Locke comes from an equally conservative background and was impressed with my decision. He offered friendship. After wrestling with the notion, I agreed. We had a strictly emotional affair – and public friendship -- for three months.

 

 

 

We have many things in common, personally and professionally. We see do business together legitimately and see each other at community events. My husband and I socialize with Locke’s family. His wife likes me and has suggested we do things together without the men and kids.

 

 

 

I communicate better with Locke than perhaps any friend, woman or man, I have ever had before. He treats me like a princess. Our sex life, although infrequent, is amazing. We've never been able to spend more than four days alone; we've travelled together three times.

 

 

 

My second husband and I will be empty nesters in one year and have talked about separating. He refuses to join me in counselling anymore. He is financially and verbally abusive and doesn’t like counselors pointing fingers at him.

 

 

 

My husband likes Locke and Mrs.Locke. They tolerate him. Our spouses do not know about the affair and I intend to keep it that way.

 

 

Within a year it may not matter if my husband learns of the affair. We will be separated.

 

 

Locke said when we met that he had no intentions of leaving his family. With our relationship, all of his needs are met. He is happy. He no longer has a reason to leave his home. I know the emotional, financial, and practical devastation that divorce can bring to a family – been there, done that -- and so I’d never want to be responsible for that.

 

I worry about inflicting pain on Locke’s family if we were discovered. I don’t know that it is possible to wait things out for ten or more years til he becomes an empty nester, too.

 

 

 

I wonder if it would be better if Locke tells his wife that if she insists on a sexless marriage that he will seek intimacy elsewhere. We’ve talked about this before and he honestly believes that she’d prefer him to have sex with someone else than to engage in sexual activity with her husband. She is a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and refuses counselling.

 

 

 

Alternately, Locke and I could transition away from an affair and back to having just a public friendship on a level that his wife is comfortable with. I know that he may, then, seek a sexual affair from someone else.

 

 

 

Thoughts?

Edited July 4, 2014 by Sasha1/2

[daisydook]

I think you need to settle your own life, prior to worrying so much about Mr Locke

[Noproblem]

10 years is a long time..

 

I guess the best decision is to remain just friends

 

and you seriously get a divorce and find someone new...

 

no cheating and no drama, fear or guilt.

[Sasha1/2]

Thank you for you ideas.

I am in counseling to deal with the strain of my marriage and the losses my family and I have suffered. After trying to work with my husband and seeing me several times, the counselor believes my husband and I should not be together. I am waiting things out for a short while to protect myself financially.

 

I know Locke meets many if not all of my emotional needs. I have considered finding female friends who may meet many of them instead. My husband doesn't like me being close to anyone else, but I know that legitimate friends don't bring me guilt.

 

My recent losses are unbelievable and overwhelming. My friends and extended family have all but disappeared because of their own reactions. Few people know everything that's in my heart and head. Locke knows it all and has held me while I cried.

 

The progression of our relationship to something physical was initiated by me. I kissed him first. I told him when I wanted more. He's always a gentleman. We talk. We collaborate. We encourage. Sometimes we play Devil's advocate when we think its needed.

 

Rebuilding relationships that have become fractured through tremendous loss will be very difficult work for me. Worthwhile? Yes. But exhausting on top of the existing stress.

 

Being with Locke is easy. He heals me.

[whichwayisup]

You should not wait 10 years for someone! That's a sad wasted life, especially if the 10 years passes and he doesn't divorce. You'd be putting your whole life on hold.

[mikethemechanic]

I found this on the MLC website "The Hero's Spouse"

 

It's the best article that explains the available statistics and their source.

 

Will the MLCer Marry the Alienator?

Relationships that begin with infidelity rarely last. The statistics vary and I have found only book sources rather than formal surveys of statistical collections of data. A cursory Internet search brings up several sources misrepresented across multiple websites. How many cheaters marry the alienator and how many of those marriages eventually fail? That's what you really want to know.

 

Dr. Jan Halper surveyed 4126 men who were successful career professionals. 82% (~3383) of the men she surveyed cheated on their spouses.1 3% (~124) of those surveyed eventually married the affair partner. 2 This was a specific survey that focused on high-level career professionals--numbers may differ for men in different industries and at different professional levels. The 3% is out of the entire 4126; 18% (~743) of those men claimed uninterrupted fidelity, thus the 3% is not 3% of those who cheated; that figure is (~124)/(~3383) or 3.7%. Those who reference Halper's study sometimes fail to point out that it focused on a certain population of men--high level career professionals--and I did not find a single instance where it was noted that the 3% was from the total survey number of 4126 which included men who claimed uninterrupted fidelity. Halper's study is helpful in that the survey size was large, but she did not offer data about the length of the marriages that resulted from infidelity. Did most eventually end in divorce? We may assume that to be the case, but assumptions have no place in statistics.

 

Annette Lawson is misrepresented as stating that less than 10% of men leave their wives for the affair partner in her book Adultery: An Analysis of Love & Betrayal. Here is what Lawson said regarding those who participated in her survey:

 

While over 70 percent of the faithful remained married to their original spouse, this was true of just over half of the adulterous, and the more liaisons a person had, the more likely it was that they would not remain married to the first spouse. If they did divorce, only about 10 percent…married their lovers…Given the number of liaisons in total, these forty-seven serious affairs represent barely 2 percent of all liaisons. 3

 

Lawson did not state the 10% statistic was relating to how many cheating men leave their wives for the affair partner; rather she stated that 10% who do leave their wives marry their affair partner. Is This Affair is Over!! report that "Most affairs do not end blissfully, with the man and girlfriend together. Of our survey respondents, less than one percent of the men left their wives for their girlfriends--although nearly 53% said that they would. In some instances, the man did leave his wife, and yet still did not commit to his girlfriend."4

 

Now most of you are already in the situation where your spouse has left and for many of you, your MLCer seemingly left for the alienator and they are now living together even while you remain legally married. From your place it doesn't matter what percent leave their spouse, you are already in that number, so how many who marry the affair partner eventually divorce? Sorry, but I have thus far found only one reference repeated multiple time across the Internet.

 

References to Frank Pittman state that 75% of marriages that begin with infidelity eventually fail. This is referenced as though it comes from a formal survey. Here is what Dr. Pittman actually says:

 

There is something inherently doomed in those marriages that began as marriage-wrecking affairs. It is possible for them to work, but it is unlikely they will do so. In my practice, while over half the people who get into romantic affairs end up divorced, only a fourth marry the affairee. Even then, three-fourths of those romantic marriages end up in divorce. There is a greater likelihood that the divorcing partner will be back with the original spouse in five years than that the romantic affair will be a stable marriage at that time. 5

 

He does not state that his numbers are from a formal survey, but rather they are from his patient samples and those referencing Pittman ignore that he states that a fourth (25%) married the affair partner--much higher than the other surveys just mentioned. Pittman does not give the sample size--the number of patients in his practice. This was not a flaw on his part, he was not making claims that this statistic would hold true under rigorous testing, rather it is the fault of others who have taken this reference and implied that it came from a formal survey.

 

Most affairs do not result in marriage and of those that do most will end in divorce. That is true for your MLCer as much as it is for someone who is not in a midlife crisis. It is true even though your spouse hates you and is head-over-heels in-love with the alienator. Just because your spouse seems to mean it that she hates you and is in-love with someone else and will marry him it does not make it true; most say those things and yours is not the special exception that is more stubborn or more in-love.  

Sources

 

1. Halper, Jan. Quiet Desperation the Truth About Successful Men. New York: Warner Books, 1988. page 205.

2. Ibid., page 22.

3. Lawson, Annette. Adultery: An Analysis of Love & Betrayal. New York: Basic Books, Inc., Publishers, 1988. page 287.

4. Miner, Nannette and Sandi Terri. This Affair is Over!! Bristol CT: BVC Publishing, 1996. page 21.

5. Pittman, Frank. Private Lies. page 246-247.

[Sasha1/2]

Mike, thank you. I know that my affair is not likely to have a happy ending. I suppose that I'm really just living in the moment, somewhat selfishly, because the world outside of the affair is very painful. I'm self medicating with a healing relationship.

[Sasha1/2]

Can Infidelity Cure Depression? | Psychology Today

[mikethemechanic]

Can Infidelity Cure Depression? | Psychology Today

 

brilliant article I'll buy that book "Insatiable Wives: Women Who Stray and the Men Who Love Them"!

 

What I find intriguingly fascinating quoting from the book "Insatiable Wives: Women Who Stray and the Men Who Love Them"! "

Some of the men that Ley interviewed stated that they were also interested in sexual interactions outside the marriage or relationship but that it was too much "work" to find women who would agree to the lifestyle. All the above comments make me question the husbands/partners behavior as completely and truly altruistic".

 

Begets the question as too if om feelings for you are genuine.

[oldshirt]

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder if it would be better if Locke tells his wife that if she insists on a sexless marriage that he will seek intimacy elsewhere. We’ve talked about this before and he honestly believes that she’d prefer him to have sex with someone else than to engage in sexual activity with her husband. She is a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and refuses counselling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

What goes on in his house and what he discusses with his wife is not any of your business. That's for him to worry about.

[mikethemechanic]

Om sounds dangerous a man without scruples if he could lie to his wife and willing deceive her one can only imagine what he may do to you recommend: A Criminal History check no one wants to find out after you're married that your om has criminal convictions for things like sexual abuse, spousal abuse, or drug trafficking. Unfortunately, it happens. So, doing a background check before you get married may spare you a lot of future unhappiness.

[Sasha1/2]

Begets the question as too if om feelings for you are genuine.

 

I question this all the time. Not because I doubt him but because I'm a person who looks for evidence of true feelings and character.

 

He makes time to see me every day, even if its just for an hour during a lunch break or fifteen minutes after work No, its not for sex. We usually just talk.

 

Locke has helped one of my kids with a project that he's an expert in.

 

When I was sick at home, he came by with tea and meds, eventhough I couldn't let him in the house because I was so contageous.

 

He has included my family in activities with his family and friends. He treats me and my family as friends first.

 

This is why I believe there is the possibility of "just" a friendship with Locke if we can get past the other feelings and needs that we have.

 

Om sounds dangerous a man without scruples if he could lie to his wife and willing deceive her one can only imagine what he may do to you recommend: A Criminal History check...

 

His record is clean. I know this because of the work he does. I know his industry.

 

Yes, I do wonder what makes me deserve better than his wife. He feels justified because she refuses physical or emotional intimacy.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Sasha1/2

[mikethemechanic]

I question this all the time. Not because I doubt him but because I'm a person who looks for evidence of true feelings and character.

 

He makes time to see me every day, even if its just for an hour during a lunch break or fifteen minutes after work

No, its not for sex.

We usually just talk.

 

Locke has helped one of my kids with a project that he's an expert in.

 

When I was sick at home, he came by with tea and meds, eventhough I couldn't let him in the house because I was so contageous.

 

He has included my family in activities with his family and friends. He treats me and my family as friends first.

 

This is why I believe there is the possibility of "just" a friendship with Locke if we can get past the other feelings and needs that we have.

 

 

 

His record is clean. I know this because of the work he does. I know his industry.

 

Yes, I do wonder what makes me deserve better than his wife. He feels justified because she refuses physical or emotional intimacy.

 

I agree with you it's not about the sex if it were he'd have be long gone! I bought the book online Insatiable Wives: Women Who Stray and the Men Who Love Them the author comes up with a rather new concept which says that married men who stray look for emotional support of which they are lacking in their current marriage. What is fascinating about this idea is the very fact that women were once accused of this. A vivid image pops up in my mind of om who is destitute of emotion support from his spouse. pardon me, for I don't know how too say this any other way! Is the om looking for an "emotional booty call"?

[Minnie09]

Just curious: How did you meet on a married people's website AND your spouses know each other?

[Sasha1/2]

What goes on in his house and what he discusses with his wife is not any of your business. That's for him to worry about.

 

Thank you. You are right.

[Sasha1/2]

Just curious: How did you meet on a married people's website AND your spouses know each other?

Locke and I discovered that our offices had been doing business together for about a year prior to us meeting online. He and I have worked together on business and community projects, openly and legitimately, since. (That is finished now.) Our families socialize together regularly now.

 

Is the om looking for an "emotional booty call"?

Absolutely, yes. I was, too. We both thought we wanted sex because that is lacking from our marriages. Although he says he would struggle with the decision, as might I, he would appreciate retaining a friendship with me if that's what we agreed to. We have a deep respect for each other. I would never want to hurt him or his kids... but I can't imagine life without him. He adds much happiness to my world.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Sasha1/2

[georgia girl]

I am probably going to come off harsh, but I really genuinely mean my comments for you to take a look at what you've gotten yourself into. This isn't some star-crossed lovers thing where the two right people just happened to meet after being committed.

 

 

This guy - who you seem to kinda think walks on water - is actually telling you in a very pretty way that he's not going to make any changes in his life for 10 years. That's setting a goal so far out there that it's not realistic. So, for 10 years, you're okay with him telling another woman he loves her? Having sex with her? Going on vacations together? Celebrating milestones for their family, themselves and their children together? The average lifespan of a US mortgage is seven years. Average length in a job is five. Perhaps in that ten years they buy a new house or new careers. He'll be sharing that with you, in the time he has available, but with his wife predominantly.

 

 

I just think that right now you're in this very romantic phase of love. You see yourself as this couple united against the world and facing these obstacles that are keeping you apart. Meanwhile, I think he's thinking that he can have you - and all of the excitement and romance that comes with an affair - and continue his real life. I don't think you guys are on the same page and I think you're setting yourself up for tremendous hurt.

 

 

I do wish you the best, not sure this is the path to get there, though.

[Sasha1/2]

This isn't some star-crossed lovers thing where the two right people just happened to meet after being committed.

You are correct. We have been deliberate every step of the way and carefully discussed and agreed to next steps in our friendship, including how we include family, friends, and colleagues.

 

This guy - who you seem to kinda think walks on water

I'm aware of his shortcomings. Everyone has them. Excepting the fact that he agreed to a sexual affair, nothing that he's done recently is a deal breaker for me. In fact, nothing from his past that I have become aware of is a deal breaker, either. Our backgrounds are very similar. I'm also aware of all the good things he does for his children, his family, the community and his employer.

 

...he's not going to make any changes in his life for 10 years.

Actually, I am the one who has set the 10 year schedule. In his very first email to me he was clear that he did not have the intentions of leaving his young children. When we fell in love he started talking about living with me when my separation happened. I put the brakes on out of respect for what he had told me, and knowing that he was under the influence of infatuation. We joke about spending old age together, but we aren't making serious plans. There is too much going on in each of our lives for us to carve out definite path together and promise a future.

 

But, if ten years down the road he and I are both single and both still meet each other's needs, we're game for giving us a try.

 

you're okay with him telling another woman he loves her?

They are not emotionally intimate. They are partners in the business of raising a family and running a household.

 

Having sex with her?

They do not have sex. They do share a bed and he says he feels like he's cheating on me because he doesn't sleep in the guest room. I say he needs to sleep close to his children who frequently wake in the night and he agrees.

 

Going on vacations together? Celebrating milestones for their family, themselves and their children together?

Of course he is there, WITH HIS CHILDREN. Honestly, it is a big turn on to me that he is a very involved father. As crazy as his work can be, he's always there for his kids.

 

He'll be sharing that with you, in the time he has available, but with his wife predominantly.

I just helped him prepare his application for a position that would take him far away for a few years. Do I want him to go? NO. Is it a good career move? Is it good for his family? YES. I love him so I won't hold him back.

 

 

I think he's thinking that he can have you - and all of the excitement and romance that comes with an affair - and continue his real life.

That is what I want for him. His real life -- excepting his marriage -- is good. Mine is messed up right now. I've suffered the loss of several family members and almost lost my house, too. He should continue his real life with his terrific kids. I shouldn't bring anyone into my real life right now except as a friend.

 

I don't think you guys are on the same page.

My knee jerk reaction is to disagree, but I thank you for giving me somethings to think about. If anything, I think I am more careful than Locke. He is conservative, but lives in the moment and is spontaneous. We balance each other in that I consider long term consequences more than he does.

[MuddyRock]

Its actually pretty typical that they lie about not having sex and not being emotionally compatible with the wife. So if he is saying they don't have sex its more like they have sex once every week or two.

Realistically Its very very typical when kids are young for sex to slow down a lot and life to get busy. This is normal stuff and when the kids get older and the tiredness and focus on the kids lets up they will find each other again like the majority of married couples time and again.

Its very disturbing that this man is so selfish that he cannot see that life is tough sometimes and there are ups and downs in marriages especially with little kids. He is using you to fill this gap while it lasts and that is sad for everyone involved.

[anika99]

You are not even separated yourself yet. Once your kids are gone and your divorce is final and you are living all alone you will most likely start to have greater expectations of your AP. I don't think seeing your MM spend weekends, holidays and other important dates with his wife and family while you are alone in an empty house is going to appeal to you for long. Right now it may sound like a luxury to have your own place all to yourself, be accountable only to you, and have this part time secret affair on the side, and for a while it may be enough but truthfully I don't see you lasting at it for 10 years.

[mikethemechanic]

What I never took into consideration is that you maybe beautiful! Forgive me due to nature of my job I'm always looking for a motive. The opportunity of having an affair with a gorgeous female rarely happens to anyone. Om thinking that it may not happen again makes him grab at the chance of having an affair.

 

Why? Because it is a great escape from the shackles of marital commitment. When things get boring in his marriage, om cheats on his wife to escape for a while; and by cheating he feels free from a marriage that feels like a prison.

 

Maybe he'd feel guilty had he left his wife and for this reason he tolerates the marriage even though he will never leave it.

[Sasha1/2]

Once you...

are living all alone you will most likely start to have greater expectations of your AP ... I don't see you lasting at it for 10.

You are probably correct.

[Sasha1/2]

I'm always looking for a motive.

I'm sorry to disappoint, but despite what Locke -- and my mom -- say, I'm just an average looking woman.

 

Mrs. Locke and I have a mutual friend. While drunk, the friend shared with me her concern that Mr and Mrs Locke hadn't had sex for years, as reported by Mrs. Locke.

 

Locke told me he turned to porn. That was something he and I had to deal with early on.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Sasha1/2

[Sasha1/2]

.

...by cheating he feels free from a marriage that feels like a prison.

Locke is neglected sexually and emotionally by his wife. I am abused mentally and financially by my husband. We both get freedom from prison when we are together. Do we feel justified? Yes. Is it ok? Not if his kids suffer. He says he'll deal with that if we are discovered, but he doesn't anticipate fall out from his wife.

[still_an_Angel]

What I never took into consideration is that you maybe beautiful! Forgive me due to nature of my job I'm always looking for a motive. The opportunity of having an affair with a gorgeous female rarely happens to anyone. Om thinking that it may not happen again makes him grab at the chance of having an affair.

 

Why? Because it is a great escape from the shackles of marital commitment. When things get boring in his marriage, om cheats on his wife to escape for a while; and by cheating he feels free from a marriage that feels like a prison.

 

Maybe he'd feel guilty had he left his wife and for this reason he tolerates the marriage even though he will never leave it.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for posting your viewpoint, I can relate to this as my MM has actually said this, he feels "trapped" in his M. He's not leaving because they have a child with special needs but he has said many times that if his W says to him one day that she wants out, he will gladly oblige. He has tried talking to her about an open marriage but she quickly nipped that in the bud.

 

 

I actually chuckled reading the first paragraph of your post, it would be nice if this was the reason in my case but I'm definitely not a drop-dead gorgeous girl (I wish though!) MM said he was drawn to me due to my personality and wit, he loves talking to me as I have drawn out a lot of what's on his mind and because I've never judged, he feels very comfortable talking about anything under the sun. Plus, I "rock" his world sexually.

 

 

Sasha, I'm on the same boat as you, MM's W will never consider an open marriage, even though she has checked out probably a long time ago like MM, its the child that keeps them together. Her family doesn't do divorce so it doesn't look sunny from where I'm standing, and unlike your 10years, mine looks like forever as there is no telling if the child will ever be independent. I don't know how long we can keep this up so we take it a day at a time. I guess once you have separated or D from your H, your path will be clearer as to the length of time you are willing to dedicate yourself to a relationship that has no guarantee will have a happy ending. Please continue to post as I have been reading and re-reading this thread trying to figure out my own situation.

 

 

And thank you Mike, I have enjoyed reading your posts, you have also given me some stuff to think about.