So a husband created a spreadsheet documenting a lack of sex

[joystickd]

What if this was one of the most epic troll posts gone viral ever? It still started an entertaining dialogue. I do think the story is true for now.

 

If it's true then they need to divorce. If she really was into him they she would have worked to find a compromise. The spreadsheet was a reaction to her actions. He may be wrong for it but she is wrong for not even attempting to work with him.

[Andy_K]

The sad truth is that it's really hard for a woman to quit sex with a man who is open about sex and does his best to satisfy her needs every time. I tend to believe that what this man was doing wrong was the way he was asking for it. In fact there is no need to ask, just start kissing and touching her will lead to things without having to ask like it's a job interview or something. A man is capable of turning a woman on if he wants to spend this time, even if she had decided "no sex tonight".

 

I used to believe this. Big Time. I even dated a girl who told me on our first date that she had a pretty low sex drive - I didn't really believe her. For a while, things were great and it seemed I was right.

 

Didn't stay that way for long.

[ascendotum]

So are my friends having regular sex because they are happily married or are they happily married because they still get regular sex?

 

I would say from my experience its both. Its somewhat of a virtuous circle. Someone pointed out a lot of relationships sex plays a minor role, and those will still work well too as long as both partners match each others desires & sexual expectations. I do believe partners should try to accommodate their others needs even if they are not all in on enthusiasm. Its a 2 way street though. give & take both ways.

[Ninjainpajamas]

I think this story goes viral (saw it on CNN yesterday) because there's obviously so many married men that can relate, this guy simply took things a bit farther than the average married man would...but it's all something they can relate to, and it's also a "problem" many married women feel they have to endure.

 

The other thing I find funny is that this is all being presented as the first line of defense or response to such an issue, when in reality this was nearly a certainty - with little doubt, something that this has been ongoing for some time...he simply took initiative to another level by outlining in a factual way (man thinking) what the situation really was...maybe even thinking that then she might actually accept or see the big picture of what's going on if he were to actually demonstrate a pattern here.

 

However women will focus on the audacity and pitiful behavior, because she's only thinking about how she feels about it, she's not thinking...

 

"Wow, he must be at wits end to take it this far...I knew he said something about it a million times, but it came to this so maybe this actually has to be addressed"

 

And if they did acknowledge that or think of it on their own, they would still not care because of the act itself, that would have the entire focus, regardless of whether it was actual justified considering the circumstances.

 

So that's wishful thinking, instead it's more like..

 

*gasp* "How dare you! try and make me look and feel bad about something that I've been neglecting for some time and refusing to acknowledge, now I'm going to mock you and turn my attention from the real issue and dramatize this one act and make sure you are the mockery of the internet. And they, like I am expecting...will jump down your throat for it and judge you but not me (as women are usually are the unfiltered and verbose group when it comes to expressing emotion, because if men say something they're just insensitive jerks and yet they say on the same hand the women are repressed) and then I'll feel validated and justified in the fact that i am right...you'll see!"

 

Obviously this is a marital issue, but this is the sad "reality" of a whole lot of marriages...this is just a quiet way many men will cheer this guy on behind the scenes because they don't have the balls to really face their own wives or can't afford to financially, and for putting it to her just like this and in her face like they wish they could if they weren't so scared of the consequences, so on the inside quietly in their internal man cave, they're laughing to themselves and even loving it...a small victory.

 

Of course they're all going to hang their own heads and not do anything remotely close to agree with it publicly, no no, that's not what the "good men" do and it's best to avoid being labeled as something distasteful.

[Keenly]

I've kind of noticed a pattern. Women seem to get mad when cold hard facts, the kind that can not be argued with, when a point is 100% proven an irrefutable in an argument are presented.

 

 

 

In this example, the female argument on the comments is to completely side step the issue at hand , because they can't argue that, and they jump to " really? He did that ? " because they can't dispute the facts, so they try to manipulate the argument so that it is about something else, like him actually documenting what happens in his sex life.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Keenly

[hotpotato]

I've kind of noticed a pattern. Women seem to get mad when cold hard facts, the kind that can not be argued with, when a point is 100% proven an irrefutable in an argument are presented.

 

 

 

In this example, the female argument on the comments is to completely side step the issue at hand , because they can't argue that, and they jump to " really? He did that ? " because they can't dispute the facts, so they try to manipulate the argument so that it is about something else, like him actually documenting what happens in his sex life.

 

LOL you should meet my ex!

[Candy_Pants]

This conversation is so boring with all the gender generalizations.

 

There have been SEVERAL women on this thread who *understand* why the husband did what he did. As well as several men who *understand* why the wife was so upset about the spreadsheet.

[Els]

I've kind of noticed a pattern. Women seem to get mad when cold hard facts, the kind that can not be argued with, when a point is 100% proven an irrefutable in an argument are presented.

 

 

 

In this example, the female argument on the comments is to completely side step the issue at hand , because they can't argue that, and they jump to " really? He did that ? " because they can't dispute the facts, so they try to manipulate the argument so that it is about something else, like him actually documenting what happens in his sex life.

 

Hopefully you'll be okay with it when your future girlfriend presents you with a spreadsheet of number of times you gave her an orgasm during sex vs number of times you had sex. Or a spreadsheet of how your penis measures up to that of the other guys she's been with.

 

I mean, it's all about the cold hard facts, right?

[Candy_Pants]

Hopefully you'll be okay with it when your future girlfriend presents you with a spreadsheet of number of times you gave her an orgasm during sex vs number of times you had sex. Or a spreadsheet of how your penis measures up to that of the other guys she's been with.

 

I mean, it's all about the cold hard facts, right?

 

Cold hard facts!!!

[Els]

Cold hard facts!!!

 

Better than cold soft facts...

[sweetjasmine]

In this example, the female argument on the comments

 

Oh, wait, so YOU'VE decided what constitutes the "female argument"? By ignoring half the "female" posts in this thread, apparently. Ignoring evidence is so logical, isn't it?

 

I'm especially glad you ignored my girly girl female argument that said no one has enough information to draw any real conclusions. Because what you're all presenting are conclusions based on speculation based on a single piece of evidence, not "facts."

[Els]

 

This is really not that complicated.

 

You can't just demand sex because you are in a relationship. It does not work that way.

If you tell your partner you have not had sex for awhile and you are unhappy about it, This will set up a negative cycle....and then you will really not be having any sex.

 

Instead of trying to be fulfilling to your partner on a level that is more than just physical...You hand her a spreadsheet of all the times she denied you sex.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN HERE HMMMMM?

 

If you want good sex, don't ask: "when can we have sex?".

 

It is not that difficult to use a little imagination and fulfil the female fantasy. It does not have to be all sappy like on TV. One trick that I learned is that is if a woman is in a beautiful environment, sex is more likely. Change your bedroom...Put candles, scented oils, clean sheets. Make your bedroom look like a frickin spa retreat or something.

 

Don't be sitting there after a big meal, watching TV and farting...and then be like "uhhh ya so we gona have sex tonight or what?".

 

Also, this is a good example of a guy who gets it. Bears repeating.

 

Of course, if 'winning' an argument is more important than actually learning how to improve your chances at having a good sex life in a LTR, then carry on, y'all. Yes, spreadsheets are awesome. Obviously the only reason the woman in question didn't drop her soaked panties at the sight of a spreadsheet is because she's an illogical and manipulative woman.

[GorillaTheater]

Also, a nice example of a guy who 'gets it'. Bears repeating.

 

Of course, if 'winning' an argument is more important than actually learning how to improve your chances at having a good sex life in a LTR, then carry on, y'all. Yes, spreadsheets are awesome. Obviously the only reason the woman in question didn't drop her soaked panties at the sight of a spreadsheet is because she's an illogical and manipulative woman.

 

I agree with Smartdude, but I don't think the goal of the spreadsheet (and his mode of delivery) was to get more sex from his wife. I think he did it because, right or wrong, he was done.

[dreamingoftigers]

LOL you should meet my ex!

 

*cough*

No kidding.

The woman in the situation sounds like my husband than me.

 

Gender stereotypes are damned unhelpful overall and on a more individualized level because they do not examine any individual causes/effects in a situation for the two individuals involved and they tend to make people of both genders analyze the other in a biased and negative light, which can be completely innaccurate.

 

In this thread there are (at least) two vocal women who are claiming to be on the other side of sexless relationships.

 

Sure, its not a vastlt overwhelmjng number but it does represent a strong minority who can relate somewhat to the situation of the male in question.

 

So is this just another case of "women don't get it" or a case of "a lot of women may not get it, a lot of women see that there's some blame with both parties for a lack of appropriate communication probably fuelling the situation, and other women are straight-out able to relate with and side with the guy?"

 

(And wtf with her not showering?)

 

Personally, perpetuating bullsh*t gender stereotypes helps to keep fuelling the types of behaviours that men/women are accused of. It discounts a woman's ability and desire to reason and a man's ability to understand emotion. Both are a pretty necessary to becone a whole, integrated, functional person.

 

If a man is raised to believe that women with only use their emotions as a form of manipulation and weaponry against him, and not consider his experience and belief, they are less likely to evaluate whether a women is trustworthy and consider her feelings at all. My husband has this issue having a completely dysregulated mother that uses feelings and fits to manipulate people. In fact, last month she wanted to initiate contact with us so she emailed me saying she hadn't heard from us in months (after her last big, very public fit) and that if she didn't hear from us after contacting us "multiple times" (first time in months) that she would contact the police. I contacted her telling her we hadn't received ANY contact with her aside from the email. I understand she's unstable so we did talk for a bit.

 

However, five days later she tried phoning and we weren't home. So she actually DID phone the police saying we were not safe and hadn't heard from us in months and that there had been threats to our safety. So while we were enjoying a nice evening at our friend's home, the police tried phoning us to no avail (we didn't give her our cellphones because we like some peace). So they checked our door, finding it unlocked, went through our home searching for us and then waited at our place for an hour when we pulled up seeing a police car in front of our home!

 

Ironically enough, my husband (and I) thought it was my parents who probably had something to do with them being there. My father has pulled the "police" card to manipulate situations before. (I know, sick eh? And it has never worked and only served to piss off everyone in the given situation). But my husband and I having each a parent with the same, dumbass, manipulative pattern have to accept that we will have to deal with them periodically and laugh about it or simply remain pissed off. So this time when the police announced their reason for being there, instead of getting completely indignant about them entering our home etc. I just playfully patted my husband's shoulder laughing saying I was so relieved that it was his parents this time because my Dad was up two incidents and this evens it out a bit.

 

No gender has a monopoly on being emotionally screwed-up and selfish.

There are often differences in its expression, but in my case, having the explosive, manipulative, shaming father is often IGNORED and DEFENDED by other men. "He's just being a Dad." "He's being protective" etc.etc.etc. It's just automatically assumed that his sh*tty, manipulative, abusive communication style is because he has some underlying basis in logic and paternal care. Whereas my mother-in-law is typically looked at as having "just gotten carried away" or what have you (emotional).

 

Same behaviour. Motivation assigned by gender.

My personal theory: neither have the skill-set to functionally initiate contact or handle conflict, so they manipulate others to act as victims and portray being disempowered.

 

The behaviour has a form of underlying "logic" to each individual. But it is a sign of emotionally *****ed-up thing to do.

 

Another gender-stereotype that has particularly struck me as of late has come up while I have been applying for new jobs lately.

 

Although it is actually a human rights violation in my country to ask personal questions about religion/marital status etc. EVERY job that I have interviewed with has asked me about my family status. Not one or two. EVERY ONE.

I have chosen not to work for any company that is asking about my personal status that way because it shows that they are more considering my gender than my ability.

 

Allow me to clarify. I have been the PRIMARY income earner in my family for the vast majority of my marriage. It is not unusual for me to have more than one job.

 

And I have been asked such questions as:

 

1. Oh, are you married? Is your husband okay with you working so much? Working in this type of environment? (Glass factory) In close proximity to so many men? (?!) Working alone with a guy? (A driving job I applied for) Is this job okay with your husband? Is your husband going to be jealous? (!)(a sales position I applied for). Are you sure these hours won't make it hard on your family?

 

Like what effing decade is this? Did I wake up in 1954? I am applying for a job to make a LIVING. And somehow my husband has to pass the company "opinion poll" over whether I can take a job or not? EXCUSE ME (?!) I am my own autonomous person capable (or incapable as the case may be) of handling my own personal life and going to make a LIVING. As messed up as my family may be, I wasn't raised with that type of gender bias and I am finding it so disrespectful to be facing it now.

 

Other questions I get asked are about my child(ren).

How many do you have? Do you have adequate childcare for her? Won't it be hard to find eniugh time for this (?!) (40 hours? A standard workweek?) And an off-handed comment about how one male interviewer couldn't "find enough time to take care of a house and work if he had to because kids make a big mess." And my personal favorite "won't it hard on her ti have Mom work?"

 

WTF do mothers do in this province? I grew up here but it seems that I must be compketely wrong in assuming more women work in trades, have successful careers and families at the same time! In order to get a regular full-time job I must not only have the qualifications and recommendations, but I must also supply empirical evidence that I am not damaging my child, upsetting my husband and keeping my home spic and span to gain employment. Ha! My home is a pigsty! Joke's on you gender-bias!

 

My husband is not only not the jealous type but would be reluctant to have me home. Ugh would be too. I make my own way. Always have.

He doesn't get the same questions upon interview. In fact, years ago we interviewed for the same job where I had the qualifications and experience. The interview went well and it looked as though I would be getting it. My husband at the time was just getting OFF THE STREET. The interviewer told him specifically they would "rather have a guy do it" and gave it to him. *****ed.

 

I don't look at it as "men are the problem here." I look at it as "I hope one day that my opinion will count as much even though I was born with a vagina." And "what a stupid system of "values" our society has in 2014."

 

Arg. No one deserves a low-sex marriage. No one deserves passive-aggressive communication. I don't give two craps what parts they were born with. Their BEHAVIOUR ISN'T HELPFUL TO THEIR PARTNER WHOM THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO LOVE. And frankly having carried around a "notes" file saying "my husband's[M's] excuses" with the date beside it to a marital counseling session once, I more side with the guy. It's FAR WORSE being put through a sexless marriage than having your lame-ass excuses pointed out.

 

Oh I almost forgot. Another question I was asked at one interview was whether or not I could handle the "stress of working around so many young men." Seriously? I went to High School like everyone else and survived the "trauma" of young men. It makes young men sound like these intimidating, stressful types and I have to carry around smelling salts in case they say "goshdarnit" or talk about "tits" or whatever.

 

Jeez.

[Els]

I agree with Smartdude, but I don't think the goal of the spreadsheet (and his mode of delivery) was to get more sex from his wife. I think he did it because, right or wrong, he was done.

 

Oh, I agree that it signals he was done (and her putting it up on the internet signals she was done, too).

 

I was responding to the posters who actually appear to be puzzled that the delivery might garner a negative response. The ones who think that his action was actually RIGHT. And the ones who pin the negative responses to his action on, ahem, 'female manipulation' and 'lack of logic' (did I get the MRA terms right? ).

[carrie_o]

Woman here! I'm going to side with the husband on this one. The spreadsheet could've been a great tool to open the dialog about how serious he found the issue if it presented it in the proper manner. He should've given it to her in front of a trained therapist so they could discuss the issue rationally in order to get to the root of the problem. She was absolutely wrong to post in online. Her actions destroyed any possibility of working thru the problem while displaying for the world her lack of respect for her husband.

 

Wait, was my response too emotional for you?

[GorillaTheater]

Oh, I agree that it signals he was done (and her putting it up on the internet signals she was done, too).

 

I was responding to the posters who actually appear to be puzzled that the delivery might garner a negative response. The ones who think that his action was actually RIGHT. And the ones who pin the negative responses to his action on, ahem, 'female manipulation' and 'lack of logic' (did I get the MRA terms right? ).

 

I'm with you. I posted a few pages back that both of them seemed to be handling the situation remarkably poorly and were pretty unsympathetic.

[Keenly]

Oh, wait, so YOU'VE decided what constitutes the "female argument"? By ignoring half the "female" posts in this thread, apparently. Ignoring evidence is so logical, isn't it?

 

I'm especially glad you ignored my girly girl female argument that said no one has enough information to draw any real conclusions. Because what you're all presenting are conclusions based on speculation based on a single piece of evidence, not "facts."

 

If all the women would kindly take notice that my entire post was referring to the cements section of the article and not this thread. That would avoid a lot of misdirected anger.

[joystickd]

Considering my recent experience with being denied sex I will side with the man.

[Keenly]

Comments. Not cements. Holy crap.

[GorillaTheater]

Considering my recent experience with being denied sex I will side with the man.

 

I admit, that's my natural inclinations as well. But I've also seen enough to know that it's not always the problem between HD and LD spouses. Sometimes the man simply sucks at getting his wife's engine running. Tough to assume much in this case, besides what we can see.

[Keenly]

Hopefully you'll be okay with it when your future girlfriend presents you with a spreadsheet of number of times you gave her an orgasm during sex vs number of times you had sex. Or a spreadsheet of how your penis measures up to that of the other guys she's been with.

 

I mean, it's all about the cold hard facts, right?

 

I WOULD be okay with that actually, as long as there was a disparity. If the ratio of bon female.orgasm sex was greatly disproportionate to orgasm sex, I would step my game up.

 

Instead kf getting my feelers hurt over it, I'm more likely to think " wow, this is really important to her. SO impostant, in fact, that she documented and logged.it in a scientific manner to demonstrate her point.

 

That woman I would probably marry, because her mind operates like mine does.

[Keenly]

Watch your generalizations, buddy. :-p

 

Some of us women are convinced by facts. Some of us women are swayed by reason and some of us aren't simply reacting emotionally.

 

Some of us actually believe that the combination of careful and free from emotional charge documentation and candid empathic discussion could very well solve relational problems.

 

Though to be fair, that combination was not present here.

 

And just to be clear, I am not, not have I ever been a dude.

 

Remember..comments section.

 

Here we actually have reasonable discussion going on..in the comments, as with any story, its mayhem and chaos.

[Ninjainpajamas]

I WOULD be okay with that actually, as long as there was a disparity. If the ratio of bon female.orgasm sex was greatly disproportionate to orgasm sex, I would step my game up.

 

Instead kf getting my feelers hurt over it, I'm more likely to think " wow, this is really important to her. SO impostant, in fact, that she documented and logged.it in a scientific manner to demonstrate her point.

 

That woman I would probably marry, because her mind operates like mine does.

 

You didn't have to answer that, she went completely off rail even bringing other men into the picture for effect, the situation was about frequency of sex but she took it somewhere completely else, the guy wasn't commenting on her loose, wrinkly, dry, scabby vagina, and how other women he's been with were able to bend their bodies and legs in ways she never could, and were a real champ taking it from any position, even throwing in a nice deep-throat always finishing with a swallow...assuming she even does anything at all in bed, I'm sure in this situation he'd just happy if his wife laid there so he could simply f*ck her then go on with his pathetic life, but he can't even get that, after all, what about how she feels about it?...and we all know how that works if men were to do that in terms of "judging women", we only take the heat for that, you can openly talk about a mans weight for example, but mention a woman's...oh you're a real jerk, and if you are a man and watch women on a screen, like these damn porn stars...oh man, you are totally responsible for the way that might make a woman feel.

 

But back to the point...

 

But honestly, I think generally men would be more ok with a spread-sheet than a woman...at least it makes sense, at least it's something you can say "well, there is a problem here". But I'm no idiot, I don't need to go out and check social media just to understand where at least 80 percent of women will automatically stand on this issue just based on the fact that there's a spreadsheet involved...that's all they hear "spreadsheet, spreadsheet, spreadsheet"...welp, mind made up!

 

But like you said, if you actually go so far as to prove that a woman is wrong...many will simply blow up in rage, just like it happened in this situation. She wasn't thinking, she was reacting to the situation...again, isolated in how it makes her feel and what it feels like for her, without ever putting herself in her husbands shoes...after all, why do that when you can just be a selfish b**ch and people feel sorry for you instantly when you cry and when you reject the "rapist" of a man you married for security and not to be alone.

 

And as far as "generalizations"...if we're not being hypocritical about that, then candles, lotions, oils, and the like wouldn't work because not EVERY woman enjoys those things, according to this theory you could technically install a Harley in the window and rev the engine until the entire room fills with black smoke...because WHO KNOWS what THAT woman likes that's the funny thing about people advocating against judging, generalizing, and stereotypes, they do it without even realizing that they're doing it, always makes me chuckle to myself but I wouldn't want to ever correct it, it provides too much entertainment.

 

So you couldn't say women like "beautiful environments" because they all wouldn't according to avoiding generalizations theory, and in fact when I've heard men talk about the locations they've had sex with random women in, it was usually less than savory and "magical" of an environment to say the least.

 

So who knows why those men were able to have sex with these women in the first place, I mean after all men always talk about doing all these things just to get laid which includes all the things women say, a staple in any mans arsenal

 

But then again, who's trying to make sense of anything at all...because generalizations are NEVER true, right? I guess the guys who continues to be consistent with women are just getting lucky, they must not have anything figured out about "women" in general...since every woman is unique, and different, guess it's just his looks...who knows, right?

 

I don't think people realize how their behaviors reveal so much about themselves and the way they think, and how often these generalizations stand true. They're not meant to be hyper accurate from the day you were born till you future death, there is no 100 percent in life in anything at all, but there are things that are highly consistent and there are patterns you can read and determine a lot from experience with people, because without that we wouldn't be able to understand each other.

 

I feel sorry for people who don't get that, it's like everything is just going right over their head..so oblivious to what's going on around them. But you know, I don't think it's so much that, I think people just deny that they're actually doing it and try to even avoid doing that, even when their conscious and mind is telling them better...because they are recognizing patterns and behaviors that can be generalized and if you're good enough at it, will often times with a high level of predictable turn out to be exactly what you expected them to be...but like I said, there's always that small percentage of variation, but it's not drastic enough to sway the entire generalization of the argument, you won't have a variety of arguments on social media about this "spreadsheet", it's going to go as you predict, this is an easy one to call...and after all, if we're not making arguments here based on that information, then what are we arguing about? how are we even able to discuss it? clearly we don't have enough information to determine what's going on in it's entirely, If that's even possible in 99.99 percentage of situations, so what are you even talking for if that's what you expect?

 

Just accept it people, generalizations are there for a reason and often true.

[dreamingoftigers]

I've kind of noticed a pattern. Women seem to get mad when cold hard facts, the kind that can not be argued with, when a point is 100% proven an irrefutable in an argument are presented.

 

 

 

In this example, the female argument on the comments is to completely side step the issue at hand , because they can't argue that, and they jump to " really? He did that ? " because they can't dispute the facts, so they try to manipulate the argument so that it is about something else, like him actually documenting what happens in his sex life.

 

If all the women would kindly take notice that my entire post was referring to the cements section of the article and not this thread. That would avoid a lot of misdirected anger.

 

Remember..comments section.

 

Here we actually have reasonable discussion going on..in the comments, as with any story, its mayhem and chaos.

 

Please see your above statements.

In the comment that the vast majority of the women are commenting on with our "misdirected anger" it appears your opener is pretty clear.

 

You describe women as a whole, unbroken block of people who "seem to get mad when cold hard facts, the kind that can not be argued with, when a point is 100% proven an irrefutable in an argument are presented. "

 

And then use the comments section to reinforce the above bias, not the other way around. Referring to the comments section as being the source of these "women who seem to get mad at irrefutable arguments."

 

Remember..... the text that gets posted here is not like a regular conversation. We can refer back to it.

 

However, in any case, if it was strictly meant it reference to the women of Reddit, then the amendment of course would probably found to be acceptable to many here. However, I confess, I haven't read the comments section.

Although it sounds like every other comments section in the history of comments sections:

 

Rainbow-Cake Recipe Inspires Comment Apocalypse