Borderline Personaility Disorder Question

[Smilecharmer]

Recently my sister was diagnosed with Borderline Personaility Disorder. She is in therapy for it and they are doing a Cognative Behavioral Therapy to change her internal thoughts about herself. This is a positive thing and I am happy for her as she has had a really chaotic life making questionable choices.

 

So, today, she said I needed to take an online test to determine if I have it too as it can be genetic and are prevalent in those with bad childhoods. I took it and scored a 10 which meant I don't have it according to questions I answered about myself. I could be delusional if I have it so I'm not sure if it is accurate.

 

Yet, as I was reading the material on this, as I want to be there for my sister and help her, I was thinking that we all have these issues to a certain extent. Aren't we all a little depressed, anxious, and sad sometimes? I know that it is really based on more than those factors but do you think that people can be misdiagnosed if they are have other dosorders because this is so hard to pinpoint?

 

I do believe my sister is BPD as she carries all of the symptoms, but I can't help but wonder if this isn't an exact disorder as it is comprised of people's perceptions of themselves to a certain extent. What if someone just doesn't have good coping skills or they are narcissistic? Maybe they are depressed or anxious because real bad thing do happen to them? Maybe they are more sensitive than other people. I would appreciate some feedback on this disorder from a personal perspective if possible. I'm just so worried about her as what I've read says it isn't curable and the drugs involved have some bad side effects.

[jay1983]

I don't have any personal experience with this and to give you better answer I'd need to understand more about it. From what I read, self harm and suicidal behavior are symptoms. If that's the case then yes, you do have a problem on your hands and you should get help.

[Smilecharmer]

Thanks jay. No I don't have any issues with suicide or self harm. I feel great and though I feel a little depressed or anxious sometimes, it passes quickly. I guess she asked me because her doctor told her that it is genetic and I'm pretty sure our mother had something because she is very angry and chaotic. I actually am a pretty happy person and keep friends and relationships with very few problems. Can someone have it and their siblings not be affected?

[carhill]

The clearest delineator for myself, having cared for a mentally ill person and dealing with at least one diagnosed BP2/suspected BPD on a regular basis, is the light-switch idolization/demonization behaviors which, at least in my mind, seal the deal on suspected BPD.

 

When I asked to give an example, I always trot out the example of where I can walk up and say hello and I really don't know if I'm going to get a hello and hug or get something thrown at me with an expletive. I really don't know. It changes from minute to minute to hour to hour to day to day. Absolutely unpredictable. Only the best of my agree and redirect strategies learned from managing a psychotic person offer a modicum of middle ground. I literally have to be in caregiver LCSW mode (like a mental health professional or social worker) to completely disconnect from the real emotions which obtain to such treatment.

 

My .02 being around a small segment of such people, along with mentally ill people in general - I think, at a basic level, they sense something is 'off' but it never makes it to their demonstrated behaviors.

 

One gross example is the person in my example 'went off' at her husband's doctors' staff (he's my doctor too) for absolutely no reason, so much so that the doctor called him directly (super rare) and told him his staff would no longer interact with his wife. He was mortified and apologized.

 

Anyway, it's the unpredictable vacillations which seal the deal for me. They can slap any label they want on it. It's just difficult to deal with, much as dealing with a psychotic was difficult. No way I'd want to live that every day. Life is to short.

[Haydn]

This is familiar (Very) But the need for validation on everything was stronger in my ex`s case.

 

The clearest delineator for myself, having cared for a mentally ill person and dealing with at least one diagnosed BP2/suspected BPD on a regular basis, is the light-switch idolization/demonization behaviors which, at least in my mind, seal the deal on suspected BPD.

 

When I asked to give an example, I always trot out the example of where I can walk up and say hello and I really don't know if I'm going to get a hello and hug or get something thrown at me with an expletive. I really don't know. It changes from minute to minute to hour to hour to day to day. Absolutely unpredictable. Only the best of my agree and redirect strategies learned from managing a psychotic person offer a modicum of middle ground. I literally have to be in caregiver LCSW mode (like a mental health professional or social worker) to completely disconnect from the real emotions which obtain to such treatment.

 

My .02 being around a small segment of such people, along with mentally ill people in general - I think, at a basic level, they sense something is 'off' but it never makes it to their demonstrated behaviors.

 

One gross example is the person in my example 'went off' at her husband's doctors' staff (he's my doctor too) for absolutely no reason, so much so that the doctor called him directly (super rare) and told him his staff would no longer interact with his wife. He was mortified and apologized.

 

Anyway, it's the unpredictable vacillations which seal the deal for me. They can slap any label they want on it. It's just difficult to deal with, much as dealing with a psychotic was difficult. No way I'd want to live that every day. Life is to short.

[Downtown]

So, today, she said I needed to take an online test to determine if I have it too as it can be genetic ... I took it and scored a 10 which meant I don't have it.... I'm not sure if it is accurate.

Smile, BPD is not a disorder -- like chickenpox -- that a person "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is simply a "syndrome," i.e., a set of basic human behavioral traits that everyone has to some degree. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means that all adults exhibit these behavioral traits in varying degrees. As you said correctly, "we all have these issues to a certain extent."

 

At low levels, these behavioral traits serve a useful purpose because they generally are essential to our survival, especially during early childhood. They become a problem only when they are sufficiently strong to undermine our long term relationships with other people. When BPD traits are strong, the person will experience such intense feelings that they will distort her perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations.

 

At issue, then, is not whether you exhibit BPD symptoms. Of course you do. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether you exhibit those traits at such a strong and persistent level that they are undermining your ability to sustain a mature LTR with a loved one.

 

No I don't have any issues with suicide or self harm.... Can someone have it and their siblings not be affected?

Yes, absolutely. One sibling may inherit her mother's blond hair while another inherits a propensity to developing BPD. Following their birth, environmental factors also play an important role in determining whether BPD traits become strong and persistent.

 

I'm just so worried about her as what I've read says it isn't curable and the drugs involved have some bad side effects.

You are correct that BPD is regarded as being incurable. BPD is believed to arise from a very immature way of thinking, not from a disease. Hence, there is simply no disease to cure. This does not imply, however, that BPDers cannot get better. There are excellent therapy programs like DBT and CBT that teach BPDers how to manage their issues by becoming more emotionally mature. But, sadly, it is rare for high functioning BPDers to be willing to stay in those programs long enough to make a real difference in their behavior.

 

As to the drugs you worry about, I note that drugs cannot make a dent in BPD. They therefore are not prescribed for the BPD itself but, rather, for the co-occurring "clinical disorders" that often accompany BPD. These clinical disorders include, e.g., PTSD, bipolar, GAD, ADHD, and general depression. Nearly all BPDers have at least one of those comorbid disorders and most also have one or two other personality disorders as well.

 

I would appreciate some feedback on this disorder from a personal perspective if possible.

Smile, I offer a personal perspective in two posts you may find interesting. One is my list of typical BPD red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. That list is based on my experience during my 15-year marriage to my BPDer exW. The second post is my more detailed description of what it's like to live with a BPDer. It is located in Rebel's Thread. If those discussions ring many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Smile.

[Smilecharmer]

The clearest delineator for myself, having cared for a mentally ill person and dealing with at least one diagnosed BP2/suspected BPD on a regular basis, is the light-switch idolization/demonization behaviors which, at least in my mind, seal the deal on suspected BPD.

 

When I asked to give an example, I always trot out the example of where I can walk up and say hello and I really don't know if I'm going to get a hello and hug or get something thrown at me with an expletive. I really don't know. It changes from minute to minute to hour to hour to day to day. Absolutely unpredictable. Only the best of my agree and redirect strategies learned from managing a psychotic person offer a modicum of middle ground. I literally have to be in caregiver LCSW mode (like a mental health professional or social worker) to completely disconnect from the real emotions which obtain to such treatment.

 

My .02 being around a small segment of such people, along with mentally ill people in general - I think, at a basic level, they sense something is 'off' but it never makes it to their demonstrated behaviors.

 

One gross example is the person in my example 'went off' at her husband's doctors' staff (he's my doctor too) for absolutely no reason, so much so that the doctor called him directly (super rare) and told him his staff would no longer interact with his wife. He was mortified and apologized.

 

Anyway, it's the unpredictable vacillations which seal the deal for me. They can slap any label they want on it. It's just difficult to deal with, much as dealing with a psychotic was difficult. No way I'd want to live that every day. Life is to short.

 

Thank you for your response. I think you described my mother perfectly and to a lesser extent my sister. I never know what will set them off and they always think others are out to get them. It is very stressful for me, but I love my sister and I want to help her. Unpredictable is definitely my experience too. I've talked to my friends and family and my husband and they assure me that I am nothing like my sister. They even accuse her of trying to manipulate me so I will take care of her. I have already started placing my boundaries years ago and know how to extract myself with the least amount of friction. Have you ever considered not having anything to do with the person you are describing that has BPD? I have considered it many times even before I found out she has it but she is one of the only family members I have left.

[Smilecharmer]

Smile, BPD is not a disorder -- like chickenpox -- that a person "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is simply a "syndrome," i.e., a set of basic human behavioral traits that everyone has to some degree. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means that all adults exhibit these behavioral traits in varying degrees. As you said correctly, "we all have these issues to a certain extent."

 

At low levels, these behavioral traits serve a useful purpose because they generally are essential to our survival, especially during early childhood. They become a problem only when they are sufficiently strong to undermine our long term relationships with other people. When BPD traits are strong, the person will experience such intense feelings that they will distort her perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations.

 

At issue, then, is not whether you exhibit BPD symptoms. Of course you do. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether you exhibit those traits at such a strong and persistent level that they are undermining your ability to sustain a mature LTR with a loved one.

 

Yes, absolutely. One sibling may inherit her mother's blond hair while another inherits a propensity to developing BPD. Following their birth, environmental factors also play an important role in determining whether BPD traits become strong and persistent.

 

You are correct that BPD is regarded as being incurable. BPD is believed to arise from a very immature way of thinking, not from a disease. Hence, there is simply no disease to cure. This does not imply, however, that BPDers cannot get better. There are excellent therapy programs like DBT and CBT that teach BPDers how to manage their issues by becoming more emotionally mature. But, sadly, it is rare for high functioning BPDers to be willing to stay in those programs long enough to make a real difference in their behavior.

 

As to the drugs you worry about, I note that drugs cannot make a dent in BPD. They therefore are not prescribed for the BPD itself but, rather, for the co-occurring "clinical disorders" that often accompany BPD. These clinical disorders include, e.g., PTSD, bipolar, GAD, ADHD, and general depression. Nearly all BPDers have at least one of those comorbid disorders and most also have one or two other personality disorders as well.

 

Smile, I offer a personal perspective in two posts you may find interesting. One is my list of typical BPD red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. That list is based on my experience during my 15-year marriage to my BPDer exW. The second post is my more detailed description of what it's like to live with a BPDer. It is located in Rebel's Thread. If those discussions ring many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Smile.

 

Downtown, you do not know how much better I feel after reading your post. You explained many things that I was scared about, especially the part about the spectrum of behaviors.

I cannot even imagine being married to someone with this as I live in a different state than my sister so I can get away from it occasionally. To live with someone like that would be extremely difficult.

I also read the threads tonight and it made so much sense to me. I am positive after reading that I don't have anything like that, but it sounds exactly like my mother and sister. It helped me to see how things looked from a different point of view.

Thanks for taking the time to explain so much to me and for providing links so I could read. I have to admit your knowledge about this subject, though hard won through your own terrible experience, seems to help many here including me. It is amazing how much we don't know about BPD.

Also, you are correct about the drugs as she said they are for Anxiety, PTSD and depression. Is it like a cocktail that alleviates certain feelings so it helps a bit with the BPD? Is BPD just a catch all phrase for someone with all of these issues?

[Emilia]

Also, you are correct about the drugs as she said they are for Anxiety, PTSD and depression. Is it like a cocktail that alleviates certain feelings so it helps a bit with the BPD? Is BPD just a catch all phrase for someone with all of these issues?

The drugs are for those disorders, separate from BPD. BPD is often described - very accurately in my opinion - as an emotional regulation disorder. It's basically what your sister's personality is: she has trouble regulating the extreme ups and downs of her feelings. So much so that much of the time she loses the ability to take a step back and view things in context/rationally. Which is why currently there is no cure for BPD, since it's such and integral part of the person.

[Downtown]

Smile, I'm glad to hear you found the information helpful.

It helped me to see how things looked from a different point of view.

You already know what it feels like to be a BPDer. We all behave like BPDers 24/7 during early childhood and many of us start behaving that way again during our early teens when our hormones surge. Indeed, any strong change in hormones can result in temporary BPD behavior. This is why it is common for women to start acting out and having strong mood changes during pregnancy, postpartum, or perimenopause. Both women and men can exhibit strong BPD traits during the mid-life change in hormones.

 

Indeed, simply experiencing very strong feelings -- such as intense anger -- can easily result in your behaving like a BPDer again for a few hours. Of course, we all know this -- which is why we try to keep our mouths shut until we have a chance to cool off. We know our judgment goes out the window whenever we experience very intense feelings.

 

Are the drugs like a cocktail that alleviates certain feelings so it helps a bit with the BPD?

As Emilia explained, the drugs do nothing to reduce the BPD itself. Yet, because the BPD symptoms (e.g., temper tantrums and distrust) get worse when the BPDer is under stress -- as is true for all of us -- you are correct that reducing the anxiety and depression feelings "helps a bit" to reduce those BPD symptoms.

 

But the underlying condition (the inability to self regulate her own emotions) is left untouched and not improved. That condition must be addressed by teaching her how to self sooth, how to regulate emotion, how to intellectually challenge intense feelings instead of accepting them as "facts," and how to avoid black-white thinking by tolerating ambiguities and strong mixed feelings.

 

Is BPD just a catch all phrase for someone with all of these issues?

No, those "clinical disorders" are believed to be fundamentally different from BPD, as Emilia noted. They generally arise from imbalances in body chemistry -- which is why they usually can be treated quite successfully with medication that corrects that imbalance. In contrast, having BPD typically means you have the emotional development of a four year old. You can't swallow a pill to fix that. Instead, many years of intensive therapy -- from a specialist trained in treating BPDers -- is required. Also required is a high level of self awareness and ego strength -- or the BPDer will not persist long enough in therapy to make a difference. I've never seen any statistic on it but I would guess that perhaps 1% of high functioning BPDers have those necessary factors. The vast majority of BPDers are high functioning.

 

It is unusual for a therapist to tell a high functioning BPDer the name of her disorder. Generally, therapists are loath to do so because it is not in the best interests of the HF client to be told. (It is a different story, however, for low functioning BPDers). I mention this because it is worrisome that your sister was told. It suggests she may be low functioning. Has she ever done any self harm like head banging, suicide attempts, or cutting of her arms?

Edited July 23, 2014 by Downtown

[Brigid]

Recently my sister was diagnosed with Borderline Personaility Disorder. She is in therapy for it and they are doing a Cognative Behavioral Therapy to change her internal thoughts about herself. This is a positive thing and I am happy for her as she has had a really chaotic life making questionable choices.

 

So, today, she said I needed to take an online test to determine if I have it too as it can be genetic and are prevalent in those with bad childhoods. I took it and scored a 10 which meant I don't have it according to questions I answered about myself. I could be delusional if I have it so I'm not sure if it is accurate.

 

Yet, as I was reading the material on this, as I want to be there for my sister and help her, I was thinking that we all have these issues to a certain extent. Aren't we all a little depressed, anxious, and sad sometimes? I know that it is really based on more than those factors but do you think that people can be misdiagnosed if they are have other dosorders because this is so hard to pinpoint?

 

I do believe my sister is BPD as she carries all of the symptoms, but I can't help but wonder if this isn't an exact disorder as it is comprised of people's perceptions of themselves to a certain extent. What if someone just doesn't have good coping skills or they are narcissistic? Maybe they are depressed or anxious because real bad thing do happen to them? Maybe they are more sensitive than other people. I would appreciate some feedback on this disorder from a personal perspective if possible. I'm just so worried about her as what I've read says it isn't curable and the drugs involved have some bad side effects.

 

I'm pretty much an expert on BPD so I'll give you a little of what I know. BPD is sometimes used as a "throwaway" diagnosis to women who are fragile, emotionally unstable and seem to have quick moods swings and different personalities. Women targeted are ages 18-40.

 

The reality is this isn't a scientific disorder. It is a theory and a clever way to bunch people together to get insurance to pay for stuff and to keep psychologists in business.

 

Here is the quandary. When someone is either diagnosed as having BPD or self-diagnoses themselves they're filled with mixed emotions. One, is: "OMG I'm soooooooo messed up. I really have baaaad problems." Two is: "Yay!!! I'm not alone. This is a very common problem and now all I have to do is get better. Woohoo!."

 

I almost made a career of BPD but that's another story. So after all experience with this disorder I've come up with my own theories.

 

Each person is different and needs to be evaluated on their own functioning in their culture. Our western culture PROMOTES BPD behavior in young women. This is the important point. Our culture PROMOTES, Glamorizes and ENCOURAGES BPD behavior in young women. If our culture had a movement towards a different way of viewing and portraying women you would see BPD behaviors significantly decrease.

 

Some people are more sensitive than others. I am one of them. I'd scrap the BPD label and start with "What is."

Edited July 30, 2014 by Brigid