Feeling like there's no hope

[ChessPieceFace]

I'll try to avoid a wall of text and distill this to its essence. 38yo male virgin, never dated, never been kissed etc. I don't make much money, just scraping by. Wasted lots of years hiding from life. Now trying to get more fit and get something going with my career, but I feel like it's too late to even bother with women. Even if I become fit and get money in the bank, I feel like I'll still be ignored, or just used. I never had "game" and I find the very concept disgusting, animal behavior. Body language, mind games, dominance/confidence etc. But this seems to be a universal requirement even among women who claim to value other, more noble things. They're just hypocrites who still go for whatever guy has game and plays them right. At least all the ones I've known.

 

People say online dating is worthless. I don't know what other options I would have. I like younger women but not sure what ages I should focus on. Seems to me all the good women would have been taken by the guys who were wired to have game. All that are left are the rejects like me.

 

I could list 100 reasons why I feel like I should give up, but I'd rather hear if anyone would disagree, and figure out what kind of path I could take toward finally having a positive outcome with a worthwhile woman. Hopefully not suggesting that to succeed I have to become another disgusting dominant male animal.

[ChessPieceFace]

I'm also aware I dwell on the negative. If something is absent (for instance dating prospects in my life, a good job in my life) I assume the unknowns as negative, until there is something or someone actually there which is concrete.

 

I met a girl recently who is into missionary work, we hit it off quickly and my constant negative assumptions were turned around pretty quick by this selfless individual. It was exciting in that respect. Unfortunately, she has a BF. Thus reinforcing the assumption that all the good ones already have BFs. I don't even let that stop me, I still try -- in fact, I believe the last 4 girls I've asked out or simply asked to spend time with have all had BFs at the time. (And all said no...)

 

So, if you could paint me a positive mental picture of what I could try for, or share positive experiences which you believe would relate (guys succeeding without acting like dominant animals) that would be helpful.

[Thruster]

well Let's work on your attitude and approach

 

try to re do that post

 

AND NOT ONCE! -- put down a negative comment

 

rule #1 on making life and everyone around you happier

 

DO NOT BE NEGATIVE!

 

give it a try pal

[d0nnivain]

Keeping talking to this nice missionary woman. Be pleasant & kind. When you get the courage, ask her if she knows any nice women like her who she could introduce you too since she has a BF. You may be able to turn her into an ally.

 

Try joining a group called ToastMasters. It's more about public speaking but it has aspects that help with shyness & social awkwardness.

[ChessPieceFace]

well Let's work on your attitude and approach

 

try to re do that post

 

AND NOT ONCE! -- put down a negative comment

 

rule #1 on making life and everyone around you happier

 

DO NOT BE NEGATIVE!

 

give it a try pal

 

Sorry, that is impossible. I can't be positive when I've had only rejections and failures. I do have positive things going for me but they aren't enough, and most of them aren't what women care about. They seem to only care about machismo + bank account + looks + fitness, probably in that order. I recently asked out a friend of 10+ years who became available and she wouldn't give me the time of day -- she wouldn't even agree to spend a single evening with me, even just as a friend. She undoubtedly cancelled the last time on purpose, and lied about the reasons. I suspected that before, now I'm almost certain. I have no positive women in my life to focus on or look at as a positive example. Just a bunch of self-centered hypocrites.

 

Even if I get down to a more attractive weight, get my career on track and have money to spend, I'll still be stuck dating American women. Many men have given up on American women entirely and I don't blame them. The single ray of hope I can see is that I'm not going to date American womanhood as a whole - I just have to find one good woman. No matter how bad things are there's still a few good women out there. I just fear that they are all irrevocably taken. Or that I'd have to settle for someone I'm simply not attracted to. I'm not that shallow and I'd honestly accept a wide range of women, but if there's no attraction then I don't think it's fair to either person.

[Glinda.Good]

It is NOT too late.

 

I think that was a very honest post.

 

Don't get into the "bitter brigade" trap. I have seen you in there before, but it seems that you don't want to be.

 

It's hard to be open and vulnerable. But if you would like to share your life with a GOOD person who will ENHANCE yours, please try to be that way.

 

Also, keep aware of your tendency towards negativity. Don't buy into that, it's poison.

[ChessPieceFace]

I'd like to know my odds so I know what I'm up against, but I guess no one can really tell me those. Other than self-improvement, I guess really what I need then is just to know where the hell to look for women of character. As I said, I fear almost all the good women are taken.

 

I'm really hitting the age where I could either have a GF who remembers the 80's, or who could bear children, but not both. That's pretty depressing. But I guess the 90's weren't bad... So at age 38, given that I have no experience, I could probably go as young as ... 24? It starts to get creepy at some point, not to mention the generation gap. 27 or 28 might be ideal for me... But again, I have heard almost nothing good about online dating. Where could I go to start trying and working toward gaining some positive experience...

[Glinda.Good]

As I said previously, you either bend over (and play by their rules) or roll over (and give up).

 

OP, this is exactly the kind of tripe I am warning you to guard against.

 

Us against them is no state of mind to be in if you are seriously looking to find someone with whom to share your life.

 

The above quote seems to be written by a person who hates and fears women. I don't understand why such a person would even mess with women at all.

 

Some of your posts reflect that you have internalized some of this. Please don't.

 

American women - well, there are millions of us and we come in all shapes, sizes and cultural backgrounds. If you like a woman, please get to know her without casting aspersions upon her because she is the same nationality as you are.

 

And there are wonderful women from other countries as well, of course.

 

Please don't be hung up on the age thing, as well. That is not going to serve you in any positive way.

 

Try to be open and to actually take in what is going on around you. You certainly have some people in your life who are in relationships that you admire. Look at them instead of self professed "alpha males" and scary Internet crap.

 

Good luck.

[MisUnderstood1]

I'm sure if women were to list what they're looking for in men, "has game" wouldn't be one of them. It means different things to different people, anyway. It's good you have been approaching women. Even though they're taken or not available for one reason or another and you feel like you've been rejected, just use those experiences to boost your confidence, not discourage you.

Edited July 26, 2014 by MisUnderstood1

[MidwestUSA]

i would have gone to an escort or hooker ages ago, no offense OP

 

 

 

I think you'll see that's not OP's style. He's looking for a lot more then sex.

[scobro]

I'll try to avoid a wall of text and distill this to its essence. 38yo male virgin, never dated, never been kissed etc. I don't make much money, just scraping by. Wasted lots of years hiding from life. Now trying to get more fit and get something going with my career, but I feel like it's too late to even bother with women. Even if I become fit and get money in the bank, I feel like I'll still be ignored, or just used. I never had "game" and I find the very concept disgusting, animal behavior. Body language, mind games, dominance/confidence etc. But this seems to be a universal requirement even among women who claim to value other, more noble things. They're just hypocrites who still go for whatever guy has game and plays them right. At least all the ones I've known.

 

People say online dating is worthless. I don't know what other options I would have. I like younger women but not sure what ages I should focus on. Seems to me all the good women would have been taken by the guys who were wired to have game. All that are left are the rejects like me.

 

I could list 100 reasons why I feel like I should give up, but I'd rather hear if anyone would disagree, and figure out what kind of path I could take toward finally having a positive outcome with a worthwhile woman. Hopefully not suggesting that to succeed I have to become another disgusting dominant male animal.

 

Chess, pal your mind is doing what the mind does which is assume the worst, think of the past,picture negative outcomes,and find problems.problems. This what the human mind does, if you let it.Now the trick is you have to condition yourself/mind to be and think positive.So what you have to do is be the "watcher" of your thoughts....for example when you start thinking "They're just hypocrites who still go for whatever guy has game and plays them right" you catch yourself and diffuse the negativity by saying to yourself...."theres the mind giving me negativity thats not real" or Thanks mind for the fantasy negative thoughts" or whatever you want to acknowledge what you assume is true, is not.

 

In reality a lot of women find 'game"guys or "players" very un-attractive and don't like to be played, especially after the age of 30.So, really all you are experiencing is F.E.A.R false evidence appearing real.I would recommend buying books on self confidence and positive thinking they will help a lot.I was just like you and use to think the worst and assume things that are phantom thoughts.Its just low self esteem,lack of confidence and fear of rejection and they can be changed by how you start thinking and changing.

 

Its not too late to bother with women you are 5 years younger than me so does that mean its hopeless for me because some negative guy says so....of course not its just your perception its not real.So you have to change the way you think to start making positive adjustments in your life.

 

Good luck!!

[preraph]

Since you haven't had any luck with women at 38 years, it's ridiculous to narrow the field by trying for young women. You need to stop dwelling on the past or at least zip it with people around and see if any woman seems to be comfortable talking to you that isn't a business or work acquaintance, since they're paid to be friendly. And that's who you ask out. I realize that since you are middle-aged and haven't had any experience, that may factor into why you want young women (among the usual reasons) since only they will be as inexperienced as you, but I'm telling you that isn't going to work. If you've always gone after women you can't get, then that would explain the lack of success.

 

Be friendly if one is friendly back and go into it assuming they're nice people until you see evidence or red flags to the contrary. Good luck.

[melodymatters]

I'm happily married, but I actually prefer shy guys to extroverts. YOU however, have already said you wouldn't date me if I was single: I am over 40 and American.

 

If I were an overweight virgin at 38 I would NOT be excluding people off the bat, sheesh !

 

I have an actor who works for me, mid 30's, very shy, overweight, lives with his parents. He recently got engaged to a smart, kind, successful woman who is not conventionally attractive at ALL. However my actor friend thinks she's beautiful and is happier than he's ever been in his life.

 

HE was realistic.

 

I like the idea of seeing if the missionary has friends to introduce you to. Otherwise to hit all the points on your laundry list you may have to buy a foreign bride and once SHE'S become Americanized she may very well leave you.

 

No offense, but don't expect more than you have to offer yourself.

[Scorpio Chick]

All that are left are the rejects like me.

 

As long as you believe everything that you feel completely defines you as a person deems you a reject, then no one here can change your view. And since you're labeling some women rejects, I'd like to know what makes them 'rejects'? Unless they're murderers, etc...., really, who are you to call them rejects? Who is anyone to call them rejects? You believe women will see you as a reject because truthfully, YOU see a lot of women as rejects and not worthy of YOUR time and attention. When you boil it down, it's not a very nice way to think of yourself or these women.

[camillalev]

You should stop focusing on age and focus instead on personality And who you can realistically get. Also, people in general are not attracted to negativity and self-pity, men and women both.

[Els]

I'm really hitting the age where I could either have a GF who remembers the 80's, or who could bear children, but not both.

 

Do you actually want biological children?

 

If you do, preserve your sperm as soon as you can afford to. I'm not joking, there is increased risk of several congenital diseases when the father is of advanced age.

 

And yes, you really do need to work on not being obese and having a career - it will help heaps. Some 22-year-old weekend rock band singers can get girls without having a career because it's still 'cool' at that age. I don't know a single woman who's okay with a 38-yo man not having a career, especially if he is also obese. 'Game' is overrated, especially if you want a good woman.

[lollipopspot]

I'm o.k. with a guy without a career, as long as he has other passions that he actually pursues (like, he's an artist, a writer, an activist, etc.), and he can support himself. I have my own money.

 

If he's just a couch potato, it's probably not that great, because I don't want that lifestyle.

 

Although it doesn't mean I couldn't fall in love with a non-career oriented, obese couch potato, if he had some other great qualities - like he's witty, compassionate and interesting, shares my core values, etc.

[Brigid]

Sorry, that is impossible. I can't be positive when I've had only rejections and failures. I do have positive things going for me but they aren't enough, and most of them aren't what women care about. They seem to only care about machismo + bank account + looks + fitness, probably in that order. I recently asked out a friend of 10+ years who became available and she wouldn't give me the time of day -- she wouldn't even agree to spend a single evening with me, even just as a friend. She undoubtedly cancelled the last time on purpose, and lied about the reasons. I suspected that before, now I'm almost certain. I have no positive women in my life to focus on or look at as a positive example. Just a bunch of self-centered hypocrites.

 

Even if I get down to a more attractive weight, get my career on track and have money to spend, I'll still be stuck dating American women. Many men have given up on American women entirely and I don't blame them. The single ray of hope I can see is that I'm not going to date American womanhood as a whole - I just have to find one good woman. No matter how bad things are there's still a few good women out there. I just fear that they are all irrevocably taken. Or that I'd have to settle for someone I'm simply not attracted to. I'm not that shallow and I'd honestly accept a wide range of women, but if there's no attraction then I don't think it's fair to either person.

 

I don't think you should date someone your not attracted to either. But to be honest you don't sound ready to date at all right now. You sound very angry and somewhat depressed. First deal with your issues because even if you meet someone your attracted to who likes you back you'll still have relationship issues because even good relationships are damn hard.

[Glinda.Good]

Who said anything about "us against them"?

 

That attitude is clearly evidenced in the following:

 

As I said previously, you either bend over (and play by their rules) or roll over (and give up).

 

There is no "THEIR" rules, son. The rules are determined by each individual.

 

 

All guys need game to get girls.

 

False. I understand that in your little weird world, that is the truth. I've learned that there are boys like you since I joined LoveShack and my daughter turned me on to Reddit; in real life I have literally never crossed paths with a single one. I guess your social life has some pretty narrow parameters. Or yours is strictly an Internet mutation.

 

 

In fact, I actually think that when I make politically incorrect (yet true) statements, I notice that most women go crazy. I wonder if that's because I made them doubt the social programming they've been receiving throughout their entire life. Hmmmm…..

 

I don't see anything politically correct, incorrect, or true about your point of view. I understand it, and I think it's pitiful and ignorant. You seem comfortable and happy with it, though, and that's all that really matters, for YOU.

 

This is not your thread, though. OP may have a chance to break free of such inanity and experience a relationship with a woman, which I believe is what he wants. Not goofy little games.

 

Anyone that has traveled and spent significant time in other cultures with local people actually from that culture will tell you that people do act differently when they come from different places. They are raised with different values.

 

I wonder where you've gotten the notion that you know what MY culture is, or that of any other women here on LS - OR what kind of time we've spent in cultures other than our own.

 

 

American women from different "cultural backgrounds" are still American women. They were raised with the values of our society.

 

You seem to need to apply gross generalizations to approach any kind of comprehension. I have some compassion for that; it must be kind of a challenge.

 

It's your challenge, though. It has nothing to do with the OP.

 

OP - I assure you that there are indeed ALL KINDS of women in America. I was just talking with a man earlier today who does not permit his daughters to go to school dances (old school Baptist). There is a family down the street that does not speak English in their home. And I live in a tiny town.

 

But, as I said, there is nothing wrong with being attracted to other cultures - it has a mysterious allure. But NOT because all American women have some kind of a taint. That's just plain goofball.

[Glinda.Good]

what if he lives with his parents?

 

If he's a grown man, and lives with his parents, I hope he is concentrating much harder on getting out of that rut than he is on learning "game."

 

First things first.

[lollipopspot]

what if he lives with his parents?

 

I guess it would depend on why, and what he's doing about it. It's a negative, but it's not an absolute deal breaker, depending on the situation. I can imagine situations in which I would tick all of these negatives off on why I think a guy is not o.k. for me, but fall for him anyway, if the most important things are there (values, interest, and how he treats me), and he's committed to improving the things that are important but not quite there yet.

 

I don't want to be the mother or caretaker to my partner though. He needs to bring things to the table himself. Be the best you that you can be at the present time - try to become someone you would be attracted to, if you could imagine being the opposite sex.

[camillalev]

OP personality and lifestyle wise, what kind of person would you like to date? Make a list.

 

Are they active, like to bikeride, rock climb? Are they Religious/spiritual, an Animal lover, Artist, foodie?

 

Take that list and appy it to yourself. Do the kinds of things that you want to surround yourself with. It's extremely difficult, I know, but don't define yourself by your 'failures'.

[Els]

If he's a grown man, and lives with his parents, I hope he is concentrating much harder on getting out of that rut than he is on learning "game."

 

First things first.

 

The only exception, for me, would be if he was living with his parents to take care of them because they couldn't take care of themselves. That's noble, and fine.

 

If they were taking care of HIM - ugh, no.

[ChessPieceFace]

I don't live with my parents - all my parents and grandparents are dead. I live alone and scrape by. Looking to use my degree for better employment, but I don't like my degree...

 

OP personality and lifestyle wise, what kind of person would you like to date? Make a list. Take that list and appy it to yourself. Do the kinds of things that you want to surround yourself with. It's extremely difficult, I know, but don't define yourself by your 'failures'.

 

Here's one of the many problems. To me, doing most things alone is boring and pointless. Travel alone? Boring and pointless. Travel with a GF or even a friend who likes to travel? That would be fun. I do travel to go to specific events, but nearly every time I have to go alone, because no one I know shares my musical or sport interests; at least not enough to travel for them. Same with outdoor sports, walking/running, etc. Golfing alone? Pointless. Golfing with someone that likes golfing? Great. But I have no one to golf with, so I don't golf. Does that mean I don't like golf? Does that mean I don't like travel? I only like sitting in front of a computer? I don't believe that. I like doing a lot of things, I just don't like doing them alone.

 

Sometimes it's almost worse doing things like that alone, because it highlights just how alone you are. I've tried to force some of my friends to golf; got one to go once and we had a mediocre time. The quality of the time I have doing certain things also comes from the quality the of the time the person I'm with is having. If I golf with people that enjoy golfing, I have a good time. If I golf with someone that doesn't, I have a poor time. That doesn't sound unusual on the surface, but it's more deeply reflective of something about me - that I am even reactive in my emotions and feelings of interest in things.

 

I've always by nature involved myself in what other people are already doing (passive or reactive nature.) I know I need to keep developing more of an active mindset, to make things happen instead of waiting for them to happen. But left to myself, for recreation I tend to just play video games or whatever is easiest, because doing all the work to "actually do things" like travel or sports, just to still be alone, feels pointless.

 

When you're 38, your long-time friends are gone away / have families and have no time to spend with you. My friend-base has collapsed almost completely. I basically have to start from scratch again. And I also don't know how to approach that. Get back into geeky gaming like Magic cards? The average age is probably 20... big generation gap and I don't fit into the group. Get into a racquetball or golf club? Nearly the same thing. Even if a golf club would have people my age (mostly guys...) the guys would have families and I'd have little in common with them. When you're a 38 year old bachelor with no friend base and haven't established yourself financially or otherwise, you are simply weird and awkward and won't fit in, no matter what you're trying to get into.

 

Even at my birthday party, when I invited my high school friends - they spent a large amount of time talking with each other about their kids. I was excluded since I had very little to add to that conversation. So even with my friends I am often left out and excluded because my life path diverged from theirs.

 

I do still want to get into things like social gaming and sports, I just see it as yet another uphill battle.

 

As long as you believe everything that you feel completely defines you as a person deems you a reject, then no one here can change your view. And since you're labeling some women rejects, I'd like to know what makes them 'rejects'?

 

Simple. Someone is a reject if they are by-and-large rejected; if they have tried for a long time but not successfully paired off with someone, and are rejected by the people they've tried with, enough times to form a pattern. It's not a mindset, but a lingual definition. I don't "see myself as a reject" just because I'm depressed and negative and down on myself. I'm 38, I haven't paired off and never made it work with anyone, while almost all of my peers have. That makes me currently, literally a reject. It's a basic realization.

 

Do you actually want biological children?

 

I'm not entirely sure, but when I think about never having them, I don't like the idea. Logically the world needs less humans, and having kids is basically (logically) a selfish act. Nevertheless, I can't fix the world as a whole, and it shouldn't be my burden to have no kids just so irresponsible people can have more kids. It also seems to bring joy and meaning to people's lives. Even people who are divorced and depressed find fulfillment in having their kids. Like it or not I am still human and bound by human motivations and feelings.

Edited July 29, 2014 by ChessPieceFace

[camillalev]

Look into groups in your area with similar interests. Find a group with men and women your age who are single and share the same hobbies and interests, so you're not just sitting around talking about kids.

 

I know what you mean when you say doing activities alone can underline how alone you are. But the fact is you can't sit there forever. You need to do something about it.