M30USA Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) I challenge you to find a single person, either inside the church or outside the church, who admits to serving the god of money. Nobody thinks they do. And yet Christ warned more about the dangers of loving money than he did about all other sins combined. Why? The reason is because Jesus said, "You CANNOT worship God and money." He didn't say it's harder or that it makes it more difficult. He said you CANNOT. As in, if you live for money (and all that it represents such as power and alignment to the world system) you CANNOT worship him. The two are mutually exclusive. This becomes important especially in regard to Christians. Do you, as a proclaimed Christian, pursue "the American Dream"? Does your definition of "progress" and "success" in life get defined by salary and status, rather than obedience to the Word of God and pursuit of truth? Then you worship at the altar of Mammon. You may claim to worship God and you may go to church every Sunday. But according to Jesus you cannot worship God. Neither do you know him. There is no place in your heart for his Word or his Spirit. How can you claim otherwise when your very mission in life is to pursue all forms of gain? God has no place in the hearts of such people. I don't mean to be blunt, it's merely what Jesus said. Don't be like the religious people of Jesus' day: "The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all these things, and they ridiculed him." (Luke 16:14) Do you worship at the altar of Mammon? It's time to smash our idols. Give them up. The Lord is coming and bringing his righteous new system. If you can't give up your idols, pray for the strength to. They will all get smashed eventually. Why delay and live in an illusion? Edited July 23, 2014 by M30USA 2 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Greed would be on these same lines? Or is greed a direct result from the love of money? This has mostly been related to the "rich", although the "poor" can be just as guilty. The Lord said the at the love of money is the root to all evil...I'm checking my motivations at this moment so if you have any more examples it would be most helpful... I like money and have wanted to win the lottery before, but can't say I love it...just like to pay my bills, BUT do I have bills that shouldn't be..off hand can think of one that is sin (it's not a bill but regular expense). I need to change big time. Help. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Greed would be on these same lines? Or is greed a direct result from the love of money? This has mostly been related to the "rich", although the "poor" can be just as guilty. The Lord said the at the love of money is the root to all evil...I'm checking my motivations at this moment so if you have any more examples it would be most helpful... I like money and have wanted to win the lottery before, but can't say I love it...just like to pay my bills, BUT do I have bills that shouldn't be..off hand can think of one that is sin (it's not a bill but regular expense). I need to change big time. Help. I think greed is probably the same as the love of money. It's not even money, per se, but the desire for gain specifically within the worldly system. Gain is GREAT when it comes to knowledge of God and advancement of his kingdom. Unfortunately, as Paul said, this often requires "loss" in the current world's system. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I think greed is probably the same as the love of money. It's not even money, per se, but the desire for gain specifically within the worldly system. Gain is GREAT when it comes to knowledge of God and advancement of his kingdom. Unfortunately, as Paul said, this often requires "loss" in the current world's system. Would you say this link is a good explanation? The World System as a Network Opposed to God, Jesus Christ and, Christians I "feel" caught up more in the worlds system than in the heavenly realm. It's the reason I'm not having the victory I should possibly. Concerning "victory", I'm speaking of being close to God, I feel so distant. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Would you say this link is a good explanation? The World System as a Network Opposed to God, Jesus Christ and, Christians I would endorse that link 100%. I believe most Christians, when asked in a moment of candor, would say there is no contradiction between the world's system and God's system. In other words, they believe success in the world and success in God's kingdom are synonymous. Edited July 23, 2014 by M30USA 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I would endorse that link 100%. I believe most Christians, when asked in a moment of candor, would say there is no contradiction between the world's system and God's system. In other words, they believe success in the world and success in God's kingdom are synonymous. Cool, it'll give me a guideline of study. Thank you for starting this thread because this is an area that I really need to understand. In learning the "world system" as of late, it's devastating and evil..."follow the money" is a real good term for deciphering the motive behind the motive. What I've learned hurts so bad and I don't know how to deal with all of it. In some cases it causes a very deep hopelessness and depression which separates me from God... I have a friend who is highly anointed, but haven't been led to rejoin the prayer group because it's changed. I want to so bad, but I understand that her idea of a successful ministry is bringing in lots of money to do the work of God. While yes, money is required in some cases, but I see the heart in this matter and it just hurts. My God-mother who is a powerhouse in the Spirit, yet she always wanted millions. I had to sort of cut ties and haven't talked to her in years because we had nothing in common it seemed anymore, she seemed to have drifted towards the world system. I feel like both of the people I speak of here, who were SO instrumental in my "growth" changed so very drastically and only saw me as a means for money eventually. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Cool, it'll give me a guideline of study. Thank you for starting this thread because this is an area that I really need to understand. In learning the "world system" as of late, it's devastating and evil..."follow the money" is a real good term for deciphering the motive behind the motive. What I've learned hurts so bad and I don't know how to deal with all of it. In some cases it causes a very deep hopelessness and depression which separates me from God... I have a friend who is highly anointed, but haven't been led to rejoin the prayer group because it's changed. I want to so bad, but I understand that her idea of a successful ministry is bringing in lots of money to do the work of God. While yes, money is required in some cases, but I see the heart in this matter and it just hurts. My God-mother who is a powerhouse in the Spirit, yet she always wanted millions. I had to sort of cut ties and haven't talked to her in years because we had nothing in common it seemed anymore, she seemed to have drifted towards the world system. I feel like both of the people I speak of here, who were SO instrumental in my "growth" changed so very drastically and only saw me as a means for money eventually. Pure, that was hard to hear. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Pure, that was hard to hear. M30, I did confront both at one point concerning the focus on money, but it fell on deaf ears, and felt inadequate due to them being much higher than me in the Spirit. Telling the people who trained me was classic I guess and probably not too well received- what would I know. As for me and hopelessness and depression, that's a result of truth. One member here either has a thread or asked why aren't Christians happy about being so close to the coming of Jesus. I thought I would be. Going through it and understanding it on this level is very hard. Understanding partially the inner workings and seeing the suffering just eats me up. It's an evil that I didn't know before. The hate is almost too much. My heart is broken and I didn't think it would be this way. I have to remember to run to God and not from Him and give it all to Him... The majority of people (this includes Christians) think this world system is such a great thing. Being taken through it's exact nature is nauseating ...literally and reminds me of being taken through what my last ex husband had been through. My ex was sexually abused by his father from about the time of 18 mo old. Long story short God showed me the evil involved..I was sick in my body for weeks after that. It was just so horrible. My motive was to help him, God showed me I couldn't...just hoping he got saved... Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 M30, I did confront both at one point concerning the focus on money, but it fell on deaf ears, and felt inadequate due to them being much higher than me in the Spirit Please don't say this. It doesn't matter how old someone is, how long they've been trained, or even if they are your long time teacher. Anybody at any time is subject to the convincing of Satan. Remember Jesus said that the wicked would be taught by the mouth of babes? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Please don't say this. It doesn't matter how old someone is, how long they've been trained, or even if they are your long time teacher. Anybody at any time is subject to the convincing of Satan. Remember Jesus said that the wicked would be taught by the mouth of babes? Can you imagine though how this could throw someone off...wow I even prayed with them trying to pray these things in until my spirit was screaming. I believed it for a bit. It was hard to break the ties, but necessary. On the lines of this world system. I don't know where the world ends and the Lord begins...hoping this makes sense. Maybe a better way to put it is at what point should I not be involved. There is a mind block here. I need to clarify a previous statement. I am very interested in prophecy, it is a passion. I see things coming to a close quickly- just read the news paper. I think what is frustrating is that many don't see that all of this is happening because of the world system ...some see it, some don't and some blame God... Honestly, I just need to chill as God will give the answers I seek...He never fails even when I'm being half hearted...I just have to wait on Him. Edited July 24, 2014 by pureinheart 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Can you imagine though how this could throw someone off...wow I even prayed with them trying to pray these things in until my spirit was screaming. I believed it for a bit. It was hard to break the ties, but necessary. On the lines of this world system. I don't know where the world ends and the Lord begins...hoping this makes sense. Maybe a better way to put it is at what point should I not be involved. There is a mind block here. I need to clarify a previous statement. I am very interested in prophecy, it is a passion. I see things coming to a close quickly- just read the news paper. I think what is frustrating is that many don't see that all of this is happening because of the world system ...some see it, some don't and some blame God... Honestly, I just need to chill as God will give the answers I seek...He never fails even when I'm being half hearted...I just have to wait on Him. As far as I'm aware, there is only one instance in Scripture where Paul actually tells us to completely disassociate from a particular kind of person: those who are greedy for gain. I don't believe he says this about sexual immorality. He says to flee from sexual morality, itself. But he only tells us to completely disengage from those who are greedy for gain. I believe this is because, while it seems less evil than murder, per se, it's a sign that a person is completely focused on worldliness. It's very hard to break from, to see the light, and it will eventually affect you if you're close to them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Glinda.Good Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Joel Osteen. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Joel Osteen. He makes great whitening toothpaste. Have you tried it? Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) As far as I'm aware, there is only one instance in Scripture where Paul actually tells us to completely disassociate from a particular kind of person: those who are greedy for gain. I don't believe he says this about sexual immorality. He says to flee from sexual morality, itself. But he only tells us to completely disengage from those who are greedy for gain. I believe this is because, while it seems less evil than murder, per se, it's a sign that a person is completely focused on worldliness. It's very hard to break from, to see the light, and it will eventually affect you if you're close to them. M30, I can't tell you how over the years this issue has eaten at me. It's true, Paul is right and I understand the entire concept and now understand why God closed those doors. Thinking I closed those doors and felt I could be paying a price for that. There's others that I've had to walk away from also...wow Amen, and thank you! Edited July 24, 2014 by pureinheart Link to post Share on other sites
jonsnuh Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Does one have to sacrifice a good lifestyle and money for God? I seriously doubt it. Take doctors for example: Not only do they have great status in our society, they make a significantly better salary and wealth than the average person. Can you blame that person for working longer hours for money when it benefits more patients? As with any contract, it is best to create and align incentives so that people perform as expected to limit adverse results. It may be difficult but not impossible. I've accepted that dichotomies that are absolute are often too simplified. Forcing one to choose between money and God? You can be a good person and still be well-off. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Does one have to sacrifice a good lifestyle and money for God? I seriously doubt it. General, vague, nebulous. Let's get specific and clarify terms. The devil is in the details, as they say. Please define for me what a "good lifestyle" means. Please delineate what one must do to achieve said lifestyle. Please define what "for God" means? What does a life "for God" look like? Please be specific or at least give qualitative measures. Link to post Share on other sites
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