Girlfriend was raped.

[CarrieT]

GuardianLion, I have not posted in this thread yet but have been reading through it and have been around this site for a long time...

 

I am a triple-rape victim. The first time was when I was 16 and walking home from school; he was caught but ultimately let go because an eye witness account (a neighbor who saw him drag me into a garage) said his jacket ended above his waist and I thought his jacket went below his waist. I did not have a boyfriend at the time and became very suicidal after the act - for almost a year.

 

The second time was "statutory rape" by a high school teacher when I was 17. I thought I was mature enough to handle the affair, but it was only as an adult that I realized I was taken advantage of by someone who was preying on my budding sexuality. Because of the previous rape, I thought I was only good as a sexual object and I became very promiscuous, believing any guy's interest in me could only be for sex. Other than as a sexual being, I was a non-entity.

 

Consequently, I married the first guy who offered the "L" word around my 20th year. Still having sexual issues, we tried having an open marriage, swinging, trading partners, etc. I was a very sexually mixed-up young adult. The marriage ended when I was 25 (he came out of the closet) and I continued to sleep around, looking for that illusive connection with someone who could see me for more than my sexual self.

 

The last rape occurred in my early 30s; I was working the Renaissance Faire circuit and the after parties existed of free-flowing Scotch, Jell-O wrestling contests, and drumming circles. Two drunk guys grabbed me and dragged me into a tent and because of the drumming, no one could hear me screaming for help. I was pretty screwed up - again - by that point.

 

The point I am trying to make is that as much as you want to be there for her and be able to the continue the relationship, it may not be possible. She absolutely, positively needs to get into counseling ASAP. I cannot emphasize that enough. But when I had my rapes, it often took a long time to be able to have "normal sex" again. (Well, I'm not sure I've ever had normal sex again; I'm now 50 and just remarried for the second time, but am living in a BDSM relationship).

 

If the relationship fails, please understand it was not your fault. It is part of the process she may have to go through and it may be years before she feels like she is a whole human being again - if ever. I know you love her. But - sadly - your love may not be enough to erase her pain. I'm sorry for that.

 

And I'm sorry this has had to happen...

[nenstiel]

Is it normal for me to feel weak and emasculated? I feel like I failed as a man.. I was the first and only man she ever been with in that way. And I just feel liked I failed. I know it's not just about me but it hurts knowing what she is going through...

 

A woman I love, a woman I was in a romantic relationship with, went through this, and I can tell you: yes. Unequivocally, absolutely, yes, it is normal. We, as men, have encultured in us the attitude that we must, when confronted with a problem, fix it. When we cannot do that, we feel reduced as men. Sadly, your girlfriend isn't a car where you can pop the hood; she is a living human being. And the circumstances she's experiencing right now, I can only characterize as grief. Nothing will ever be the same for her again, life as she knew it is now over, and a piece of her self-concept has been violently torn away.

 

I'm no psychologist. However, having gone through what you're going through from the man's perspective, I can give a few pieces of advice. And the first I can give is: throw out everything you think you know. Some people will try to tell you to talk things over with her, or confront her fears, or some such (pardon my language) bull****. These people have memorized useless bromides from watching too much Doctor Drew. Because every woman experiences this trauma internally, each woman's response is unique, and I'm sorry, my friend, but you're sailing into uncharted waters here. Throw away the map, because it'll just get you more lost.

 

As a man, the best thing you can do for her, is just be there. Don't try to be her therapist, her father confessor, or anything else. Just be present, in the moment, for her. She'll go through moments of rage, and through crying jags, and moments of nigh-unmatched euphoria, and she may go through all of these very quickly. This is a common reaction to any grief. If she needs a shoulder to cry on, a stomach to punch, be that for her. Don't try to lead her through some regimen of healing or some therapeutic program. Not only are you unqualified for that, but that isn't what she wants or needs from you right now. You are her only constant as she goes through something she's never experienced before—something nobody should have to go through, but too many women do.

 

Permit me a moment of preachiness. A woman who has suffered rape has lost the illusion of control over her own self, which undermines everything she thinks she knows about the world. She will go through long stretches where she believes she cannot trust anyone or anything—including you—because she sees threats in every shadow. In this circumstance, you must, must, avoid the temptation to diminish her fears, tell her to "just calm down," or in any other way patronize her. In that moment, her fears are very real, and if you diminish them, you're simply repeating the trauma where somebody seized control from her. Like any grieving person, she must have the opportunity to feel and absorb her loss; if you or anyone denies her that right now, she'll only have to go through it later, and the healing will be prolonged.

 

Remind her that you still love her. Reinforce for her that, though your lives will never be the same again, your feelings are undiminished, and you will stand by her. She may try to pull away, and if she does, don't fight her; if you challenge her, you'll prolong the trauma. Let her walk away if she needs to. But even if you feel rejected in the near term, don't let it show. I'm not one to say "don't show your feelings," but in this case, your love needs to be a constant. She will feel unloved, unlovable. Some women, facing this feeling, will try to drive others away before they leave on their own, which the woman believes is inevitable anyway. If she pushes you away, move exactly as far as she pushes you, and not one inch further, and remind her, in gentle but confident tones, that you and your love are still there for her.

 

You and she both will go through significant changes in coming months, before she settles into the new normal. I know this is easier said than done, but give up the illusion that things will ever again be the way they were. Her life, her conception of the world, her way of understanding herself and others around her, will never be the same again, and this will change your relationship. But humans are resilient, and if you roll with the changes, instead of resisting them, you'll come out stronger together. I don't know who you two will be when this is over. You'll both be transformed. But embrace the transformation, rather than resisting it. It's inevitable anyway.

 

And though you may not want to hear this, I must say it: you may not emerge from this as a couple. Maybe you will, but maybe you won't. Her life, as she knew it, is over, and she must build a new one; some women must make a clean break from everything that came before. That's not saying everybody behaves the same, but this does happen, and you must make yourself aware of the possibility. The first priority is not in keeping you two together as a couple, but in keeping her whole and growing as an individual. If she must do that without you, you can help her best by simply being the friend and support she needs. If she needs a clean break (and again, she may not), it's better she heals and flourishes apart from you, than that she stays with you even when she needs to move on.

 

I could continue, but your situation is unique. I've been where you are, so ask me anything, but be aware, I can only tell you my journey; yours will be yours alone. Your absolute best contribution is to stand by her when it feels like everything else in her life has failed. You cannot fix her, and you cannot turn back time, but if you stand by her, lift her up when she feels crushed under life's weight, and love her when she feels judged, you can help her rebuild her life. I'm sorry she has gone through this, and I'm sorry it leaves you feeling weakened. It did for me, too. You're going to travel through a dark land, my friend. Just don't make her follow that road alone.

[GuardianLion]

GuardianLion, I have not posted in this thread yet but have been reading through it and have been around this site for a long time...

 

I am a triple-rape victim. The first time was when I was 16 and walking home from school; he was caught but ultimately let go because an eye witness account (a neighbor who saw him drag me into a garage) said his jacket ended above his waist and I thought his jacket went below his waist. I did not have a boyfriend at the time and became very suicidal after the act - for almost a year.

 

The second time was "statutory rape" by a high school teacher when I was 17. I thought I was mature enough to handle the affair, but it was only as an adult that I realized I was taken advantage of by someone who was preying on my budding sexuality. Because of the previous rape, I thought I was only good as a sexual object and I became very promiscuous, believing any guy's interest in me could only be for sex. Other than as a sexual being, I was a non-entity.

 

Consequently, I married the first guy who offered the "L" word around my 20th year. Still having sexual issues, we tried having an open marriage, swinging, trading partners, etc. I was a very sexually mixed-up young adult. The marriage ended when I was 25 (he came out of the closet) and I continued to sleep around, looking for that illusive connection with someone who could see me for more than my sexual self.

 

The last rape occurred in my early 30s; I was working the Renaissance Faire circuit and the after parties existed of free-flowing Scotch, Jell-O wrestling contests, and drumming circles. Two drunk guys grabbed me and dragged me into a tent and because of the drumming, no one could hear me screaming for help. I was pretty screwed up - again - by that point.

 

The point I am trying to make is that as much as you want to be there for her and be able to the continue the relationship, it may not be possible. She absolutely, positively needs to get into counseling ASAP. I cannot emphasize that enough. But when I had my rapes, it often took a long time to be able to have "normal sex" again. (Well, I'm not sure I've ever had normal sex again; I'm now 50 and just remarried for the second time, but am living in a BDSM relationship).

 

If the relationship fails, please understand it was not your fault. It is part of the process she may have to go through and it may be years before she feels like she is a whole human being again - if ever. I know you love her. But - sadly - your love may not be enough to erase her pain. I'm sorry for that.

 

And I'm sorry this has had to happen...

 

I understand. I guess we will see. For now, it does not seem to be heading that way.

 

Do you regret the way you handled your relationship?

 

And what do you mean by BDSM relationship? I know what it means in terms of sex but how does that work in a relationship?

[GuardianLion]

A woman I love, a woman I was in a romantic relationship with, went through this, and I can tell you: yes. Unequivocally, absolutely, yes, it is normal. We, as men, have encultured in us the attitude that we must, when confronted with a problem, fix it. When we cannot do that, we feel reduced as men. Sadly, your girlfriend isn't a car where you can pop the hood; she is a living human being. And the circumstances she's experiencing right now, I can only characterize as grief. Nothing will ever be the same for her again, life as she knew it is now over, and a piece of her self-concept has been violently torn away.

 

I'm no psychologist. However, having gone through what you're going through from the man's perspective, I can give a few pieces of advice. And the first I can give is: throw out everything you think you know. Some people will try to tell you to talk things over with her, or confront her fears, or some such (pardon my language) bull****. These people have memorized useless bromides from watching too much Doctor Drew. Because every woman experiences this trauma internally, each woman's response is unique, and I'm sorry, my friend, but you're sailing into uncharted waters here. Throw away the map, because it'll just get you more lost.

 

As a man, the best thing you can do for her, is just be there. Don't try to be her therapist, her father confessor, or anything else. Just be present, in the moment, for her. She'll go through moments of rage, and through crying jags, and moments of nigh-unmatched euphoria, and she may go through all of these very quickly. This is a common reaction to any grief. If she needs a shoulder to cry on, a stomach to punch, be that for her. Don't try to lead her through some regimen of healing or some therapeutic program. Not only are you unqualified for that, but that isn't what she wants or needs from you right now. You are her only constant as she goes through something she's never experienced before—something nobody should have to go through, but too many women do.

 

Permit me a moment of preachiness. A woman who has suffered rape has lost the illusion of control over her own self, which undermines everything she thinks she knows about the world. She will go through long stretches where she believes she cannot trust anyone or anything—including you—because she sees threats in every shadow. In this circumstance, you must, must, avoid the temptation to diminish her fears, tell her to "just calm down," or in any other way patronize her. In that moment, her fears are very real, and if you diminish them, you're simply repeating the trauma where somebody seized control from her. Like any grieving person, she must have the opportunity to feel and absorb her loss; if you or anyone denies her that right now, she'll only have to go through it later, and the healing will be prolonged.

 

Remind her that you still love her. Reinforce for her that, though your lives will never be the same again, your feelings are undiminished, and you will stand by her. She may try to pull away, and if she does, don't fight her; if you challenge her, you'll prolong the trauma. Let her walk away if she needs to. But even if you feel rejected in the near term, don't let it show. I'm not one to say "don't show your feelings," but in this case, your love needs to be a constant. She will feel unloved, unlovable. Some women, facing this feeling, will try to drive others away before they leave on their own, which the woman believes is inevitable anyway. If she pushes you away, move exactly as far as she pushes you, and not one inch further, and remind her, in gentle but confident tones, that you and your love are still there for her.

 

You and she both will go through significant changes in coming months, before she settles into the new normal. I know this is easier said than done, but give up the illusion that things will ever again be the way they were. Her life, her conception of the world, her way of understanding herself and others around her, will never be the same again, and this will change your relationship. But humans are resilient, and if you roll with the changes, instead of resisting them, you'll come out stronger together. I don't know who you two will be when this is over. You'll both be transformed. But embrace the transformation, rather than resisting it. It's inevitable anyway.

 

And though you may not want to hear this, I must say it: you may not emerge from this as a couple. Maybe you will, but maybe you won't. Her life, as she knew it, is over, and she must build a new one; some women must make a clean break from everything that came before. That's not saying everybody behaves the same, but this does happen, and you must make yourself aware of the possibility. The first priority is not in keeping you two together as a couple, but in keeping her whole and growing as an individual. If she must do that without you, you can help her best by simply being the friend and support she needs. If she needs a clean break (and again, she may not), it's better she heals and flourishes apart from you, than that she stays with you even when she needs to move on.

 

I could continue, but your situation is unique. I've been where you are, so ask me anything, but be aware, I can only tell you my journey; yours will be yours alone. Your absolute best contribution is to stand by her when it feels like everything else in her life has failed. You cannot fix her, and you cannot turn back time, but if you stand by her, lift her up when she feels crushed under life's weight, and love her when she feels judged, you can help her rebuild her life. I'm sorry she has gone through this, and I'm sorry it leaves you feeling weakened. It did for me, too. You're going to travel through a dark land, my friend. Just don't make her follow that road alone.

 

Much of this sounds scary

 

How did your relationship turn out?

[Noproblem]

what you said was horrible about peoples assumptions but.....i know its true.....the worst thing about being raped even as a child i was not being believed for one, the other bad thing is assumptions......i was deemed a dirty minded child, a demon seed because i told a girl about my rape....i didnt say a word for five years because my parents told me people wouldnt understand just like they didnt report me being raped because they didnt want me to be local tv.......i was and still am contrary to what i write here.....a shy woman and i was a shy girl, my parents knew that i dont like attention......which is another thing i have been accused of when i have told my story...i want attention ...can you believe that?.....another thing a grown woman said about me ....is that i was a sexual deviate.....as a ten year old, i took that pretty hard someone would think that about me and then tell th echildren i was tryign to make friends with to stay away from me.....for after all i was five when i was first assaulted......my rapist didnt only rape me....he got to attack me again amd again with and through other peoples perceptions and hwo they thought...he di dtell me an dhsi wife told me too ....no one would believe me...........they had bonus chances to make me feel dirty and worthless and low life scum ....tainted through others and what they thought up about me......ignorance is killer.....

 

 

 

so i would assume what i felt about telling anyone is exactly the way your gf may feel without anyone questioning her assault or actually happening that soemone says soemthign stuffed up about it, to know its true yet.......after i told this one girl when i was ten about my rape ....she told her mother and the mother was the one to spread my story and say how wicked and evil i was for telling her daughter that....to make up such lies ...i was a monster..she removed her daughter from sitting next to me in class.......and i was shunned i spent a lot of time in my early school years in the library reading.............i was isolated fro years from children forming any type of friendships with me coming specifically from their parents i would imagine...........years of loneliness.......so again smile charmer....i understood what you wrote it was insightful and so dead set true its not funny......op....these are things to consider and consider carefully what smilecharmer wrote...some people when told about certain actions ....or bad things that happen ...twist them ...because they dont want to believe it.....they just dont want to....i know it first hand.its one reason why i dont bother reporting when i have been raped i would rather handle it alone than rely on someone else to fix me or better yet try and understand what has happened......ill never report someone assaulting me i just wont..and i have never.............deb

 

I am so sorry for what happened to you

People are horrible most of the time.

I am sorry but your family should have moved you to another school

Many hurtful things that happened to me when I was kid I can't forget them

I can't imagine how painful it was for you to deal with this ...

It's also not fair

I hope one day you will heal completely and forget about all of this pain

[me85]

GuardianLion, I have not posted in this thread yet but have been reading through it and have been around this site for a long time...

 

I am a triple-rape victim. The first time was when I was 16 and walking home from school; he was caught but ultimately let go because an eye witness account (a neighbor who saw him drag me into a garage) said his jacket ended above his waist and I thought his jacket went below his waist. I did not have a boyfriend at the time and became very suicidal after the act - for almost a year.

 

The second time was "statutory rape" by a high school teacher when I was 17. I thought I was mature enough to handle the affair, but it was only as an adult that I realized I was taken advantage of by someone who was preying on my budding sexuality. Because of the previous rape, I thought I was only good as a sexual object and I became very promiscuous, believing any guy's interest in me could only be for sex. Other than as a sexual being, I was a non-entity.

 

Consequently, I married the first guy who offered the "L" word around my 20th year. Still having sexual issues, we tried having an open marriage, swinging, trading partners, etc. I was a very sexually mixed-up young adult. The marriage ended when I was 25 (he came out of the closet) and I continued to sleep around, looking for that illusive connection with someone who could see me for more than my sexual self.

 

The last rape occurred in my early 30s; I was working the Renaissance Faire circuit and the after parties existed of free-flowing Scotch, Jell-O wrestling contests, and drumming circles. Two drunk guys grabbed me and dragged me into a tent and because of the drumming, no one could hear me screaming for help. I was pretty screwed up - again - by that point.

 

The point I am trying to make is that as much as you want to be there for her and be able to the continue the relationship, it may not be possible. She absolutely, positively needs to get into counseling ASAP. I cannot emphasize that enough. But when I had my rapes, it often took a long time to be able to have "normal sex" again. (Well, I'm not sure I've ever had normal sex again; I'm now 50 and just remarried for the second time, but am living in a BDSM relationship).

 

If the relationship fails, please understand it was not your fault. It is part of the process she may have to go through and it may be years before she feels like she is a whole human being again - if ever. I know you love her. But - sadly - your love may not be enough to erase her pain. I'm sorry for that.

 

And I'm sorry this has had to happen...

 

 

I am so very sorry you went through such terrible things. I myself am a survivor. You are very brave to tell your story. And good grief you are especially right about RSs failing because of the trauma that always lingers. However quietly.

 

There are those with the opinion that the victim needs to feel in control and not pressured. My thought, however, is how would her choosing to go to counseling be an indication that she wasn't in control of her own life? That alone is her taking a step on her own to heal properly. THAT'S BEING IN CONTROL. Her not talking about it, depriving herself of guidance/healthy outlets, pushing people away and not dealing with it isn't HER being in control, that's letting the trauma be in control of her life. It's absurd how people don't see it that way. All I've been saying is she needs support from loved ones including their support for therapy.

 

The boyfriend is here because he is obviously distressed & at a loss for what to do...

 

Which, by the way Guardian, I think you have done the right things so far & if she wants to be left alone about it or take it slow, do what you feel is right for you. Go the same pace as her. If you can't go the same pace but don't want to give up on the RS either, then maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea for you to go to counseling as many other people on here have suggested.

 

If you feel like you can't talk to her about how everything is making you feel too (right now it's expected but later on it will be a very big problem in your RS) then that isn't healthy for either of you and it would be best to end the RS. Communication & emotional connection is key. Without true intimacy a RS cannot & never will be able to survive.

 

I'm so sorry for you Guardian but by everything you've posted you really are trying and that's really all any of us can do. Have faith and let these difficult times strengthen you, not break you.

Edited July 27, 2014 by me85

[nenstiel]

Much of this sounds scary

 

How did your relationship turn out?

 

Believe me, it is scary. But so much of anything worth doing in life is scary, from first love to moving out on you own to... well... anything new. Embrace the scary, and you'll appreciate it.

 

The relationship lasted for thirteen years. It ended when we moved onto differing needs in live, but we remain friends and talk regularly. It was she who put me onto this thread, and asked me to share my experiences, believing it could help you.

 

I will agree with others on this list that she needs counseling. However, if you try to make her receive counseling, it will make things worse. After what she's been through, the last thing she needs is a man, any man, telling her what to do.

[me85]

Believe me, it is scary. But so much of anything worth doing in life is scary, from first love to moving out on you own to... well... anything new. Embrace the scary, and you'll appreciate it.

 

The relationship lasted for thirteen years. It ended when we moved onto differing needs in live, but we remain friends and talk regularly. It was she who put me onto this thread, and asked me to share my experiences, believing it could help you.

 

I will agree with others on this list that she needs counseling. However, if you try to make her receive counseling, it will make things worse. After what she's been through, the last thing she needs is a man, any man, telling her what to do.

 

Exactly.

 

Do not force anything...it's pointless anyway. People have to want to do things on their own. BUT I'd absolutely (in very loving, gentle-subtle ways) encourage therapy. I'd be careful of my timing & deliverance of course, but nevertheless I'd absolutely implore someone to go to counseling after going through something so damaging.

Edited July 27, 2014 by me85

[me85]

I agree with this so much.

 

I am NOT arguing that she doesn't need counseling.

 

I am arguing that she needs to come to the realization on her own, the decision to seek it on her own, and she needs to feel herself as the prime mover in making the counseling happen.

 

And GuardianLion,

 

if you can embrace the scary and stay with her through this, and meaningfully so. If you can really be there and be someone who will listen when she needs to talk and everything that nenstiel said, it truly will mean the world to her.

 

First and foremost, when did CarrieT or myself ever say we sought counseling?? Maybe we stress about it because we didn't and realize now that we should have…maybe that's the case, maybe it isn't…we never specified. So please, pay attention.

 

Clearly you are very upset with all of my posts directly. You PM me because you don't want to "debate" with me on this thread, yet you still "debate" with me on this thread.

 

Hmmm…?

 

You want to keep the focus on Guardian, so do that, ok? Don't ask questions about how old I was when I experienced what I experienced or this or that, just so you can try to use it as an attack against me or as an insult to how much you think I know or don't know about being raped.

 

Look, your experience and how you coped and handled it was your choice. You are nailing your idea of how someone else should handle their experience to the wall.

 

You applaud one person's post who agrees with counseling same as I do but spit on my posts. When have I ever said make the girlfriend do anything?? You're bothered by the fact that I said I would implore her to go to counseling and "stay on her case about it because we all need that push." I also said I'd be mindful of my timing and deliverance to ensure it wasn't pressuring. But later on down the road it will lead to an ultimatum on Guardian's part if she doesn't eventually come to the realization on her own that she needs therapy. Realistically, how long can a person walk around on eggshells??

 

By the way, you are not giving any real advice to Guardian. You are telling him to just be there for her. Well damn girl, DUH! He is asking how to be there for her. And quite frankly, none of us have the answer to that question. He's on here, doing what we all do…using LS as a form of therapy but IMO this particular situation is a job for a licensed therapist. Where Guardian can actually sit down with someone in person and have a one on one discussion about what's going on in his mind right now. That's my advice to him, so deal with it.

 

Your advice to Guardian is different than mine. That's OK. It wouldn't be much fun if we all shared the same views about everything, now would it?

 

Your advice is for him to just let her come to him about things and not make her feel uneasy…But how Dr. Anya???

 

You are very biased regarding this topic. You are identifying with the girlfriend because you went through the same thing as she did. (oh you were older in life so therefore you understood things better which made your coping mechanisms more superior to the rest of ours…seriously?) Disconnect with the girlfriend and try to connect more with Guardian. You need to remember it is he who is sharing his feelings on here and asking what we think he should do. Not the girlfriend. So maybe try identifying with Guardian instead and think about what you would do if you were in his shoes. We understand how much you can relate to his girlfriend, (and I'm very sorry that you can, it's a terrible thing to go through…I know) but could you also try to relate to him? So far, "in her own time" has built up to 2 months of not getting very far emotionally at all, I would say. They are suffering. They need real help.

 

It is a given that he needs to be patient and understanding with her and just be the best boyfriend he could possibly be to his girlfriend who was raped...but he has feelings about it as well and also needs good solid advice on how he should cope too.

 

So what is your advice again??

"And GuardianLion,

if you can embrace the scary and stay with her through this, and meaningfully so. If you can really be there and be someone who will listen when she needs to talk and everything that nenstiel said, it truly will mean the world to her."

Edited July 27, 2014 by me85

[GuardianLion]

I'm still reading the thread guys. A lot of useful information here and I do appreciate it.

 

What are some other things that I can expect her to do

[CarrieT]

Do you regret the way you handled your relationship?

One can always have regrets. It is only later in life that one becomes pragmatic. All those regrets and mistakes and missed opportunities are the fabric that makes up who am I am now. In the past, I really didn't like myself. And I hated many of the things I did and things I did to others.

 

And what do you mean by BDSM relationship? I know what it means in terms of sex but how does that work in a relationship?

That is a VERY complicated question and discussion. The bottom line is that many rape victims ultimately develop rape fantasies and it becomes part of their sexual personae.

 

There is a little known principle in psychology called Repetition Compulsion, where a person who was traumatized does some sort of behavior associated with the trauma again. This is the opposite of what you'd think they would do (i.e. be terrified of anything violent). Different experts in psychology have ideas on why, though nobody has a definitive answer. Some say it is your mind's attempt to "master" the event, by reliving it and hoping it will turn out better.

 

In my case, I recently married a man who can tie me up, "abuse" me, and we can have a dominant/submission enactment, but I know that I am completely safe. Again, the whole concept of BDSM as a lifestyle should probably be left for a different discussion and thread (and several exist on this site), but suffice to say that it is prevalent with rape victims and further reading can be had here, in this Psychology Today article.

[todreaminblue]

i do think as carrie has said that asking about bdsm in a rape thread isnt really appropriate ........its ....i dotn know.....strange and a bit confronting.....

 

 

I have to ask op you have been given some really good advice by women who have made themselves vulnerable to you by opening up and sharing horrible experiences, and compassionate women who are tryign to help you out who sympathise with your situation, like a group therapy session all is good but it doesnt seem to be moving towards you saying what you are planning on doing........what is it you need to know really....what is it you are seeking other than what has been advised....your gf needs therapy first and foremost and probably you do too....

 

I have some questions for you

 

i want to know what are you struggling with dealing with and what are your plans what are you looking for.....how is your gf now, hav eyou suggested anything at all to her do you plan too......and what are you doing as far as dealing with this yourself ....when was thsi rape reported .......and what was said by the officials......what did they say ...how long before they get in contact with your gf.....did they take your gf clothes..were you with her when they did the swabs...deb

[GuardianLion]

I am back and have read the responses. I will take this moment to answer questions and list my girlfriend's behavior along with I.

 

@todreaminblue

 

"i want to know what are you struggling with dealing with and what are your plans what are you looking for.....how is your gf now, hav eyou suggested anything at all to her do you plan too......and what are you doing as far as dealing with this yourself ....when was thsi rape reported .......and what was said by the officials......what did they say ...how long before they get in contact with your gf.....did they take your gf clothes..were you with her when they did the swabs...deb"

 

I can answer some of these. The police officials came the night we called them in. Yes, they took her clothes for examination and they did take the swabs when she was still in the hospital. Also, took other dna evidence since she suffered some injuries. My plan is to simply make her feel as comfortable as possible. I played video games with her at times and have walked the dogs instead. I spoke to her mother and encouraged her to try and talk to her as well since it could be better from a woman's perspective. I am going to contact a therapist too to get more advice. I won't force it but still.

 

 

As far as me? Like i said I am in a whirlwind of emotions. I feel angry and want to get the man that did this myself. I feel like less of a man because I couldn't protect her. I feel depressed just seeing her behavior since then. I feel some hope that we can improve things since she has opened up to me personally about some things despite not telling me everything.

 

My girlfriend has done a number of things... to cope with what she's doing. I will list some of them now

 

• She did take multiple showers and clean herself a lot.. this was around the time it just happened
  
• Of course we have not had sex. She however, has hugged me and cuddled a few times. Also, a kiss on the cheek
  
• Random bouts of crying while she's asleep or when she's alone in the room or something.
  
• Random bouts of anger and yelling. Not just at me but her parents too and the doctor at the hospital
  
• She's definitely fearful.... very fearful. She's barely left the house since then.
  
• She's stated that she regrets not taking the dogs with her at one point
  
• Spending more time on video games
  
• Loss of appetite that occurred but is fixed now
  

[GuardianLion]

We are all individuals. We can speculate on things that might be likely or that she might do, but we don't know her and we can't say and even if we did know her, there are sufficient variables in play within her own internal personality (with anyone there are) that we couldn't even say then.

 

She might be likely to cycle between taking a ton of showers and trying to wash away the filthy feeling that is so pervasive. Internal, emotional, psychological, but yet also physical as well. In my case, I could have just stepped out of an hour long shower after having shampooed three times and soaped the entirety of my body more times than that and I would just feel dirty and yes psychologically, but physically too. For me, it was as if it were also a physical sensation on my skin. Cycle between that and loathing her body and the sight of her body which feels ruined enough to avoid showering. Also, being naked physically is vulnerable and a vulnerable feeling which can be terrifying in the aftermath.

 

You also need to be really careful with touching her. She will likely have very specific physical triggers that she won't even know about (for example, my rapist's attack began with a fast lunge towards my chest. I didn't realize how much of a trigger this could be until years later when my boyfriend playfully tried to start a little something by making a playful and quick grab towards my chest which my amygdala hijacked everything and I ended up instinctively batting him--my boyfriend--away. He knew. He understood about triggers and why, but it still hurt and upset him. And it is one of the things that led to the dissolution of not only the spark in our relationship, but also the relationship itself). Right now, I would advise moving slowly around her, and if you want to touch her, asking her permission and making sure she is very clear on what you are asking for (hug, etc.). And if you accidentally trigger her to the attack, understand if she bats you away or starts fighting you that it is not you she is batting away and fighting. Not fundamentally. And if after that she can't give you what you want, please understand and try not to be mad at her.

 

It is possible that she may become suicidal at some point. She may never. It is hard to say. But this is the one instance, if she tells you she is and she even has the ghost of a beginning of a plan of how to commit suicide, where no matter what she says or what she wants, you get her to a hospital where they can observe her and keep her safe. She can never get better if she is dead. If she is truly determined to kill herself, even hospitalized, she will. And in that case, you cannot blame yourself. The likelikhood of that is so small, though, that you don't need to dwell on it or worry about it.

 

As nenstiel said, she will likely go through periods where she is intensely afraid of everyone and everything, where she doesn't feel like she can trust anybody at all. Anybody. Including you. And the advice he gave is exactly right. I would recommend going back and rereading that section.

 

The person she was is gone in a fundamental sense. And she will never be the same. Neither will you.

 

I can highly recommend the book "Coping with Trauma" by Jon Allen to you. It goes through so much of the issues, though it is not specific to rape trauma.

 

Her emotions very likely will be all over the map. She may be crying jags for awhile, and then angry and then she may feel intense joy and then again. As she cycles through the stages of grief and comes back to the stages, she may be highly emotionally volatile.

 

But one thing nenstiel said and littleplanet alluded to it too.

 

Through away the map. There is no map and trying to pretend like there is one will only get you more lost. The most important thing is to be responsive to her right now.

 

I know right now you both are dying for a sense that you know what to expect and what will happen next for that sense of comfort through predictability.

 

That is not in the cards or on the table right now and I'm sorry that I cannot offer you that comfort.

 

If you yourself can get counseling, even if she cannot right now, that would really help you be the best help to her as possible.

 

Sucks that your relationship ended

[GuardianLion]

With everything I wrote and everything I gave you in my last post, I find just this to be a rather strange response.

 

I said it sucks because it made me think of what could happen in my relationship. I apologize if you felt like you wasted time writing that. But I am internalizing most of what I have read in this thread. Most of these thoughts I have not written down

 

Yes it does suck. Yes the spark was lost because of it, but there were many other factors. I find it odd how little you have commented on so much of the advice given.

 

I've never dealt with this before. Usually when I speak or write I prefer to cut to the chase. With this situation, there are too many thoughts going through my head. Most of this, I've gotten out of my system with people I know personally. I am not an expert so I cannot say too much.

 

I will be truthful. I am at war with myself. Much of what you say rings true, but some of it seems off. I find myself wondering. And then I feel guilty for wondering.

What I say rings true but some seems off? What are you implying?

 

Let me ask you this. What do you think she wants from you right now?

 

When she is repressing she wants me to leave her alone and not even bring up what happened. She wants it completely ignored as if she's compartmentalizing it. When she gets emotional comfort and reassurance is preferred.

 

To continue putting your effort into the relationship, what do you need to see from her?

 

I simply want her to still be open to me. I want her to keep her quirks and sunny disposition. I desperately do not want her to become cold emotionally and dark. I do not want our relationship to end. These are my biggest fears. She was such a gentle girl and I don't want to see that gone.

 

Are you truly committed, as long as she does her best to work through the pain and heal (to me it always seemed like resurrecting myself, like who I was before was lost and I had to make myself new) to staying with her?

 

I am very much committed to her. As she work through her pain I will be right beside her. But like people in this thread have said.... this is her choice. I support her but I cannot control her.

 

What are you going to look for in a counselor for you?

 

Preferably a counselor that's dealt with men that were in my position.

 

What self care are you going to engage in to be sure you can be helpful for her?

 

Aside from counseling?

 

When things continue to be tough, which they will for quite awhile, what things will you tell yourself to help get you through?

 

I am honestly not sure at the moment

 

 

 

Look at the bold

[todreaminblue]

Look at the bold

 

 

What I say rings true but some seems off? What are you implying?

 

 

 

i worked as an escort for a while and handled reception when th erecetionist was sick...........often during my answering the phones we would get quite a few sickos.....you have to understand that there are guys who would get off on reading about rape...about women who have been made vulnerable on here by simple honesty...enquiring about rape and how we feel afterwards how it affects us and the people we love and they can relive or even plan.........i got paranoid on loveshack once before that i was outed.....it was however paranoia.....but my experiences and how i have known about the seedy side havent been easy to deal with as they are not for any woman.....

 

 

recalling how we felt remembering things triggers certain feelings to resurface...one of them is fear and it isnt easy on any of us.....not on me not on anya obviously....i hope that you are sincere.......because your answers are sometimes a bti emotionless.......and that is a concern...thats honest///and that is how rape affects some women even decades onwards...theres always fear about vulnerability and being honest often can lead to other emotions that are not welcome...triggering images thoughts and possibilities that are not in any way anything other than lending ourselves to feel vulnerable all over again ...thats honest..and so may you be telling nothing but the truth ...but you are a man we dont know personally nor do we know your gf and her situation ...good advice is to talk to her about therapy for both of you....group therapy couples therapy and possible therapy that is hers alone.......i felt i had to let you know....i do wish you well...but therapy is key......even then ......women are always going to be vulnerable.....and feel vulnerable after being attacked in many instances online in the real world on street corners at night.......women are vulnerable and you have to understand that..especially when they share history that is rape......normally in group therapy thsi si a controlled environment this is not a controlled environment where you know for sure people are who they say they are....many of us take the risk because we want to help others like ourselves....with that risk is more vulnerability we allow ourselves to be put in that situation trying to help ...do you see what i mean?....deb

[GuardianLion]

I asked about the BDSM because it was mentioned in the thread (and in other places I've read during my research) that some rape victims can become more aggressive sexually. This could manifest itself in future promiscuity or getting more rough with their partner. Some rape victims also appear to like being tied up, spanked, and other things. I did not intend for it to sound inappropriate but this was just me being curious just in case it happened with my girlfriend. But I have already stated it is very unlikely since she's taken the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I am very blunt with my speeches so again if I ever offend you, understand that it is not intentional. But I will explain things better from now on.

 

 

This is a serious subject. Never something I would get off on reading. I assure you while I have never been confronted with that type of experience myself I would never get off on something this serious. Thinking about stuff like that just makes me more angry and depressed to be honest.

 

 

I've noticed the coldness. One of the things that me and her does a lot is wiggle our noses together. She also really likes to sit on my lap and play with my ears. Then there is her natural klutz nature. Her tripping over objects and other funny stuff... her awkward humor.. it's all gone. She hasn't done any of these things since then. I just feel like doing these things would help more than not but triggers are possible so I am not sure. It could help deal with the pain. That kind of intimacy.

 

 

I only have two buddies that I trust. Neither of them live anywhere near me but I have told the one that lives closer to me. I have many hobbies that can help me deal with this. I have reading, video games, swimming, writing, boxing, and more. I am more than covered. It is her I am worried about. I can take care of myself

 

 

An overview of my thoughts? I have gone over the feelings already but more details? I cried alone in the shower on a few occasions. I feel that it would be bad if I did it in front of her. A part of me thinks that this controlling of my emotions may have been more bad than good. I feel she should see me emotional but the other part of me says I need to be strong while she is going through her suffering. It's awful seeing her eyes. A mixture of dullness and absolute fear. It's like she's a stephford smiler. I just want her to open completely up tom me. I want me and her to lay out some exercises and things we can do together on the step to recovery.

 

 

I feel bad for saying what I am about to say but I will do it anyway. I fantasized about making love to her... thinking that this could possibly ease things a bit since she feels tainted and I do not see her that way.... and I want to show her I mean it.... is it bad to think that?

[GuardianLion]

I would like to take the moment to say I am sorry if I seem emotionless. I am naturally not a very emotional purpose. It's just the way I was raise and my disposition. I am introverted, aloof, and reserved. My personality. It is nothing personal at all.

 

Also, you have to understand that men.... it's still not acceptable to be emotional ... otherwise we are seen as weak.. we are supposed to suppress. It is difficult for me to process my feelings when confronted with serious issues such as these. But understand this, there is no ill intent... not by me.

[todreaminblue]

i do understand that men are always told to toughen up, not to show emotion.......that its easier for guys to cry alone than allow themselves to cry in front of another.....its wrong......like it would be wrong for a woman not to show emotion.....or have to not show emotion it causes bottle necks of emotions to occur...i was always told to toughen up ......dont be childish when i cried.....i was a child at the time.....so i developed personalities when one breaks down from exhaustion another take their place in the front and that has happened for most of my life.........let your gf see your emotion so she can show you hers........that you want to be strong is admirable, that you want to support her a pleasure to read.....

 

 

but...if you break down ...its going to be bad .the support she has then wont be there that si why you need a support network around you too..repressing your emotions will lead to that break down in the fibres of your relationship so start knitting people in real life..... together ...the more people the more supportive the fibres are that hold you both together..unite people and family in helping you get through this....maybe even pray together every night at the end of every day ....deb

[littleplanet]

I would like to take the moment to say I am sorry if I seem emotionless. I am naturally not a very emotional purpose. It's just the way I was raise and my disposition. I am introverted, aloof, and reserved. My personality. It is nothing personal at all.

 

Also, you have to understand that men.... it's still not acceptable to be emotional ... otherwise we are seen as weak.. we are supposed to suppress. It is difficult for me to process my feelings when confronted with serious issues such as these. But understand this, there is no ill intent... not by me.

 

Okeedoke.

Man to man.

 

You're allowed to have as much anger about this as you want to, feel the need for.....

anger is a legitimate emotion, too.

And of course, it depends entirely what you do with it.

 

This is something that you can't fix, for her.

And it is something you couldn't protect her from.

That's just the way it is.

But............................

 

Of course she needs you to be strong.

And I don't mean big tough guy.

I mean strong.

Like women and children can be strong.

And that's a very different kind of strength than many men know.......

but because we love them to bits - we learn.

(and strange enough, that can be a very scary thing)

 

You will never get her back intact, the way she was before.

But she didn't die. She is very, very much alive.

And 99.9% of who you loved, is still there, very much, inside her.

That remaining .1% looms huge, of course.

 

It's like looking at a funhouse mirror.

The mirror.....is what's out of whack.

The person reflected.......is crystal clear.

(It all depends on the eyes you use.)

 

It's a learning curve.

 

And no matter how you were conditioned - that's just conditioning.

Life has a way of challenging that.

This is life doing that very thing.

What you feel..............

is just what you feel.

If it seems inappropriate in the eyes of the conventional world, culture, belief systems....whatever -

it is no less honest, for all of that.

 

Don't become isolated.

Being here is a start.

Being there, for her......is infinitely better.

Knowing, learning how is the best way to do that - better still.

 

I was lucky.

I had a ton of good women to help me through this.

But I also had a ton of good men, too.

And that really grabbed my attention!

Because they taught me things only men could.................

(not so much about women - the women handled that)

but about myself, as a man. In that situation.

 

Be awake, aware, alive, alert.

Be ready.

For anything.

Emotions probably more powerful than anything you've ever felt.

(remember - you're hurtin' too.)

Probably more than you let yourself realize.

 

Loving, caring, hurting...........are as "manly" as it gets.

The most macho men I ever knew in my life - could do all that.

And do it well.

Tears own no gender.

But they can sure bridge the gap, between the two.

 

Go easy.

It's not about a cure.

It's about healing.

[GuardianLion]

Today, me and my girlfriend actually got to talking more today. She brought up the topic of therapy. Looks like implanting the idea in her head a few times worked. That and the conversation with her mother may have had something to do with it. She told me that she's skeptical and afraid of going to therapy because of telling someone she doesn't know personal details. She also said that she is skeptical of therapist to begin with because they seem to be full of crap at times and because they deal with so many rape incidents.. they may not help her since she's just another victim. She never made it clear whether she will go or not... but she at least brought up the topic herself.

 

 

She told me more details of the rape incident herself... the way the man grabbed her and all of the things that he did to her. How humiliated and violated she felt. How much it physically hurted. Hearing these details angered me and I can understand more why she's been withdrawing. She had a very monotone voice but her face was in tears.

 

 

She outright told me she is not interested in anything sexual and when I hug her to not grab her neck. Something that was surprising was that she told me if I wanted to break up with her then she would not stop me and that it could be for the best. “I understand you want that kind of intimacy but I just don't have it in me right now”. I was kind of promiscuous before I met her. This is why I believe she's focusing specifically on this but I told her that I am in no rush for that and that it would be cruel if she thinks I would focus solely on that aspect.

[GuardianLion]

Okeedoke.

Man to man.

 

You're allowed to have as much anger about this as you want to, feel the need for.....

anger is a legitimate emotion, too.

And of course, it depends entirely what you do with it.

 

This is something that you can't fix, for her.

And it is something you couldn't protect her from.

That's just the way it is.

But............................

 

Of course she needs you to be strong.

And I don't mean big tough guy.

I mean strong.

Like women and children can be strong.

And that's a very different kind of strength than many men know.......

but because we love them to bits - we learn.

(and strange enough, that can be a very scary thing)

 

You will never get her back intact, the way she was before.

But she didn't die. She is very, very much alive.

And 99.9% of who you loved, is still there, very much, inside her.

That remaining .1% looms huge, of course.

 

It's like looking at a funhouse mirror.

The mirror.....is what's out of whack.

The person reflected.......is crystal clear.

(It all depends on the eyes you use.)

 

It's a learning curve.

 

And no matter how you were conditioned - that's just conditioning.

Life has a way of challenging that.

This is life doing that very thing.

What you feel..............

is just what you feel.

If it seems inappropriate in the eyes of the conventional world, culture, belief systems....whatever -

it is no less honest, for all of that.

 

Don't become isolated.

Being here is a start.

Being there, for her......is infinitely better.

Knowing, learning how is the best way to do that - better still.

 

I was lucky.

I had a ton of good women to help me through this.

But I also had a ton of good men, too.

And that really grabbed my attention!

Because they taught me things only men could.................

(not so much about women - the women handled that)

but about myself, as a man. In that situation.

 

Be awake, aware, alive, alert.

Be ready.

For anything.

Emotions probably more powerful than anything you've ever felt.

(remember - you're hurtin' too.)

Probably more than you let yourself realize.

 

Loving, caring, hurting...........are as "manly" as it gets.

The most macho men I ever knew in my life - could do all that.

And do it well.

Tears own no gender.

But they can sure bridge the gap, between the two.

 

Go easy.

It's not about a cure.

It's about healing.

 

I do have the anger within me but like I said... it's something I can't process. It's more like cold anger... you can see it on my face and it could reflect in a fight... but I am not a person who yells. In terms of crying... I'd rather do it alone because it doesn't even feel right when I do it otherwise..

 

Also, like I said it is my personality. Are you familiar with personality types? Myers briggs or so? I'm an INTJ... emotions are one of my weaknesses and I am more to the logical side of things. Plus, it's strange having to deal with this... I am not used to it.

 

I will say this. I am strong for her. We had a talk today and it felt good hearing it.. the rape was recent but she's managed to tell me things bit by bit.

[Smilecharmer]

I do have the anger within me but like I said... it's something I can't process. It's more like cold anger... you can see it on my face and it could reflect in a fight... but I am not a person who yells. In terms of crying... I'd rather do it alone because it doesn't even feel right when I do it otherwise..

 

Also, like I said it is my personality. Are you familiar with personality types? Myers briggs or so? I'm an INTJ... emotions are one of my weaknesses and I am more to the logical side of things. Plus, it's strange having to deal with this... I am not used to it.

 

I will say this. I am strong for her. We had a talk today and it felt good hearing it.. the rape was recent but she's managed to tell me things bit by bit.

 

 

I know I shouldn't post because I upset you but I just wanted to tell you how insightful you are becoming. She may be trying to put distance between you two because she feels so awful and it hurts so much. I am so sorry. I think it is positive that she is opening up to you. Rape doesn't just affect the victim but also everyone who loves her for years to come. I hate rapists. This crime is insidious that it leaks into every aspect of a woman or mans life.

[littleplanet]

 

She outright told me she is not interested in anything sexual and when I hug her to not grab her neck. Something that was surprising was that she told me if I wanted to break up with her then she would not stop me and that it could be for the best. “I understand you want that kind of intimacy but I just don't have it in me right now”. I was kind of promiscuous before I met her. This is why I believe she's focusing specifically on this but I told her that I am in no rush for that and that it would be cruel if she thinks I would focus solely on that aspect.

 

 

Good man.

Good, good, good man.

[littleplanet]

I do have the anger within me but like I said... it's something I can't process. It's more like cold anger... you can see it on my face and it could reflect in a fight... but I am not a person who yells. In terms of crying... I'd rather do it alone because it doesn't even feel right when I do it otherwise..

 

Also, like I said it is my personality. Are you familiar with personality types? Myers briggs or so? I'm an INTJ... emotions are one of my weaknesses and I am more to the logical side of things. Plus, it's strange having to deal with this... I am not used to it.

 

I will say this. I am strong for her. We had a talk today and it felt good hearing it.. the rape was recent but she's managed to tell me things bit by bit.

 

Good. Strength is not so much of an issue. Strong enough to hear her, when she needs to talk, and in particular, and especially - to you....and say anything and everything she needs to say.

That's the important stuff.

(A lot of men get very weak at times like this. They don't have the emotional equipment for it.)

You seem to be fine, that way.

 

As to anger........

as long as she knows it is not at all directed toward her.....that is important.

 

Just as she needs to be in control now, to say and do, or refuse - what her instincts tell her is right.....

you need that, too.

However, whyever, wherever - the tears, or the rage, or whatever emotion......you call your shots.

You're both treading new ground.

The fact that you can share with each other......anything that is still loving, trusting, respectful, caring......

is all to the good.

Time.....ticks on a whole new clock.

 

And yeah. I know personality types. I just don't know their names.

 

You could spend a lifetime trying to figure out the logic of this - and find no box to be able to put it in.

But sometimes, we can work our 'weaknesses' as a strength.

 

At my dear sister's funeral......I was stoic stone-faced strong guy.

Until they played Pocabel's Cannon.

Then I was helpless as a baby.

And then it was all fine.

(works, for a musician.)

 

The point is.....use whatever works.

I like your determination.