Husband cheating...maybe

[Snowflower]

Thank you for this. Yes, I've been reading about the "fog." Interesting. Why do you say that long distance affairs are the worst?

 

 

My H has agreed to see the therapist together. Its fine if he lies...I get it at this point. Maybe he will feel comfortable enough to confess. I believe the ONLY way I can be with him if he has had an affair (and still it is unlikely) is if he confesses, instead of me confronting him with the hard facts. Having said that, I am going forth the the VAR this weekend. I've also planned a weekend away by myself in 2 weeks. When I go I will put some VARs in areas where he uses his phone. I assume if he is having a phone affair, he'll be excited to have me go away so he can chat it up.

 

I like your thinking here. It's also good that your H is willing to go to therapy with you. Perhaps the two of you can get to the bottom of this.

 

Good luck with the VAR. And, its great that you can get away by yourself in 2 weeks. Do you think you will be able to wait that long if you find more incriminating evidence in the meantime? I do like the idea of giving him enough rope to hang himself with so to speak.

 

You sound better today! Hang in there.

[EverLastluv]

The book, Not Just Friends, by Shirley Glass is excellent on this subject and might be in order even if your H's relationship with exes are ultimately determined to be "innocent."

 

Interesting book, My H NEVER kept intouch with exes. I believe in everyone create their own universe. I love to read the book "secret" by Rhonda Byrnes

[HermioneG]

Interesting book, My H NEVER kept intouch with exes. I believe in everyone create their own universe. I love to read the book "secret" by Rhonda Byrnes

 

That book and author claim that starving children in Africa deserve their fate.

 

 

No thanks. It also blames the victim.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/06/AR2007040601819.html

Edited July 31, 2014 by HermioneG

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Thank you for this. Yes, I've been reading about the "fog." Interesting. Why do you say that long distance affairs are the worst?

 

 

My H has agreed to see the therapist together. Its fine if he lies...I get it at this point. Maybe he will feel comfortable enough to confess. I believe the ONLY way I can be with him if he has had an affair (and still it is unlikely) is if he confesses, instead of me confronting him with the hard facts. Having said that, I am going forth the the VAR this weekend. I've also planned a weekend away by myself in 2 weeks. When I go I will put some VARs in areas where he uses his phone. I assume if he is having a phone affair, he'll be excited to have me go away so he can chat it up.

 

That was probably a poor choice of words. Maybe not worse, but there is an awful lot of room for fantasy in LDA's, EA or PA. A lot of longing involved which could perpetuate the feelings of limerence.

 

Play with those recorders. The batteries will not last long if they are in a room with a TV, radio or constant noise.

 

The MC worries me. I hope it doesn't become a venue for him to convince you of your faults. As affairs progress, M history becomes rewritten. There have been threads here before that show the progression.

[HermioneG]

That was probably a poor choice of words. Maybe not worse, but there is an awful lot of room for fantasy in LDA's, EA or PA. A lot of longing involved which could perpetuate the feelings of limerence.

 

Play with those recorders. The batteries will not last long if they are in a room with a TV, radio or constant noise.

 

The MC worries me. I hope it doesn't become a venue for him to convince you of your faults. As affairs progress, M history becomes rewritten. There have been threads here before that show the progression.

 

This is truth.

 

I was in MC with an active wayward. Terrible.

 

I would never ever do MC again with either an active wayward or someone less than six months out of the affair, and the MC we had in the end that was awesome? Totally agreed.

 

Infidelity is a personal problem, not a marital one, though the aftermath wreck marital havoc. You have to get the personal stuff in line first.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

LH, I don't quite understand why your responses are so riddled with anger. A possibly betrayed spouse doesn't really need advice couched with insults and impatience. I get your message...but it would be better received with some civility.

 

While I apologize if my responses are coming off as hostile, it troubles me to no end to see what looks very much like someone avoiding finding the truth or at least putting it off for as long as possible. Any impatience is you might pick up on stems from that. The longer you put it off, the more likely you are to dig a deep hole of denial for yourself until you find little ways to excuse all his odd behavior and convince yourself he isn't having an affair after all without ever really knowing.

 

Either that or drive yourself crazy with suspicion until you're confronting and accusing him on a near daily basis, all the while allowing him to take his affair (if he is indeed having one) deeper and deeper underground. You've already shown your hand twice.

[woinlove]

While I apologize if my responses are coming off as hostile, it troubles me to no end to see what looks very much like someone avoiding finding the truth or at least putting it off for as long as possible. Any impatience is you might pick up on stems from that. The longer you put it off, the more likely you are to dig a deep hole of denial for yourself until you find little ways to excuse all his odd behavior and convince yourself he isn't having an affair after all without ever really knowing.

 

Either that or drive yourself crazy with suspicion until you're confronting and accusing him on a near daily basis, all the while allowing him to take his affair (if he is indeed having one) deeper and deeper underground. You've already shown your hand twice.

 

A few days is not putting it off for as long as possible. There is no reason for you to feel impatient, as SamSam is actually moving very quickly for someone whose suspicions were only recently aroused after years together. Your reaction doesn't make sense - you simply chose to believe your bf when he said he had been faithful for part of the year, without doing any independent investigation like SamSam is planning, right? Is it yourself you are mad at, because SamSam is doing amazingly well under these extreme circumstances where they have a child whose home could very well be broken up.

 

As to showing her hand, yes, she is human, having shared her life and had a child with this man, and knows all that could very well blow up. People cannot always act perfectly and unemotionally under extremely stressful circumstances and, personally, I find that is what is so great about humans - their complexity, imperfections, emotions, mixed in with rationality and problem-solving skills.

 

A few days either way will not matter in the end. What matters is that SamSam pursue a path that she thinks is most likely to get her the truth. If she rushes and her H discovers the devices because she didn't plan well or acted suspicious in her rushing, then she is unlikely to get the truth.

 

SamSam, I think you are doing extremely well, allowing your brother to help, planning to go away, etc. This must be such a horribly difficult time for you, but you are doing right in trying to learn the truth, so you can know what you are dealing with and can figure out how to proceed with that information.

[Hope Shimmers]

While I apologize if my responses are coming off as hostile, it troubles me to no end to see what looks very much like someone avoiding finding the truth or at least putting it off for as long as possible. Any impatience is you might pick up on stems from that. The longer you put it off, the more likely you are to dig a deep hole of denial for yourself until you find little ways to excuse all his odd behavior and convince yourself he isn't having an affair after all without ever really knowing.

 

Either that or drive yourself crazy with suspicion until you're confronting and accusing him on a near daily basis, all the while allowing him to take his affair (if he is indeed having one) deeper and deeper underground. You've already shown your hand twice.

 

Your responses ARE coming off as hostile, to be honest. I don't understand them.

 

Just curious - why does it "trouble you to no end", and why are you "impatient"? This is a stranger on the internet. Not everyone does things on your timeline, right? Your point makes no sense to me, as SamSam is planning to go ahead with this, but I don't understand what is triggering you. What is the problem if it takes her 3 or 4 days to think about it and implement it? It would probably take lots of people a lot longer, as it's a serious and stressful issue. And it's her marriage, not ours - if she decides she doesn't want to go through with it, then it's her decision and I can't see why that would stress anyone here to no end. But that's just my take on it. Anyway, I hope you find peace as well, as you seem to be upset by this and maybe it relates to some pain in your own life. I know that all too well.

 

Good luck SamSam. This can't be easy. You don't have any real evidence yet, just suspicions - so it could go either way. Peace -

[whichwayisup]

Listen to your gut. You see changes in his behaviour, he's lost weight, seems peppy (more than usual in the bedroom) (LOL I haven't used the word peppy in years so no idea why that popped into my head!) and he's detached too. which means he's investing more in her than you and the marriage. His energy is focused on her more than it should be and that is sucky and unfair to you.

 

Usually where there's smoke, there's fire. Maybe he isn't having a full on affair (sexual) with her but their friendship IS inappropriate and affecting his connection and feelings for you so yes, you have every right to feel the way you do.

 

Have you met her? Spoken to her?

 

I really don't get why people dig back into their past, especially after 20 years. Ex's are ex's for a reason.

[SamSam68]

So...I have more evidence that all is not ok. Last night H left his car keys on the counter. After he went to bed I decided to poke through the interior of his car with VAR placement in mind and I found his briefcase.

 

 

As I noted earlier, he has east coast travel coming up (N is east coast) and I offered to have my mom stay with our son and I'd go with him. He still hasn't gotten back to me about that. In his brief case I found his hotel confirmation for the week of August 15th. Generally when he books work travel he uses the miles from his work credit card and stays at pretty generic hotels. He is going to DC, and in the past has stayed at the Hampton inn just outside the city. This time I find he paid directly with his work visa and not with miles and he (or they?) are staying at the Fairfax right inside the city. I immediately looked up the hotel online and it is a very nice hotel, much more of a "boutique" type than when he travels for business. When he travels for business it is meetings and sleep...no real need for this type of place in my opinion. Obviously I didn't sleep last night and I have an ear infection to boot...not going to be a good day.

 

 

Any ideas short of hiring a PI to check on him when he is there? I'd love to do that, but I have no idea how to pay for such a thing.

[SamSam68]

Listen to your gut. You see changes in his behaviour, he's lost weight, seems peppy (more than usual in the bedroom) (LOL I haven't used the word peppy in years so no idea why that popped into my head!) and he's detached too. which means he's investing more in her than you and the marriage. His energy is focused on her more than it should be and that is sucky and unfair to you.

 

Usually where there's smoke, there's fire. Maybe he isn't having a full on affair (sexual) with her but their friendship IS inappropriate and affecting his connection and feelings for you so yes, you have every right to feel the way you do.

 

Have you met her? Spoken to her?

 

I really don't get why people dig back into their past, especially after 20 years. Ex's are ex's for a reason.

 

 

 

 

 

I have spoken to her, but not in many months. When they first started speaking again, she'd call the house phone and it didn't seem all that strange. It has been quite a while since she has called on the house phone.

[Snowflower]

Listen to your gut. You see changes in his behaviour, he's lost weight, seems peppy (more than usual in the bedroom) (LOL I haven't used the word peppy in years so no idea why that popped into my head!) and he's detached too. which means he's investing more in her than you and the marriage. His energy is focused on her more than it should be and that is sucky and unfair to you.

 

Usually where there's smoke, there's fire. Maybe he isn't having a full on affair (sexual) with her but their friendship IS inappropriate and affecting his connection and feelings for you so yes, you have every right to feel the way you do.

 

Have you met her? Spoken to her?

 

I really don't get why people dig back into their past, especially after 20 years. Ex's are ex's for a reason.

 

I think whichwayisup has hit the nail on the head with this post. Well said. SamSam, please keep this post in mind for perspective as you move forward through this.

 

So...I have more evidence that all is not ok. Last night H left his car keys on the counter. After he went to bed I decided to poke through the interior of his car with VAR placement in mind and I found his briefcase.

 

 

As I noted earlier, he has east coast travel coming up (N is east coast) and I offered to have my mom stay with our son and I'd go with him. He still hasn't gotten back to me about that. In his brief case I found his hotel confirmation for the week of August 15th. Generally when he books work travel he uses the miles from his work credit card and stays at pretty generic hotels. He is going to DC, and in the past has stayed at the Hampton inn just outside the city. This time I find he paid directly with his work visa and not with miles and he (or they?) are staying at the Fairfax right inside the city. I immediately looked up the hotel online and it is a very nice hotel, much more of a "boutique" type than when he travels for business. When he travels for business it is meetings and sleep...no real need for this type of place in my opinion. Obviously I didn't sleep last night and I have an ear infection to boot...not going to be a good day.

 

 

Any ideas short of hiring a PI to check on him when he is there? I'd love to do that, but I have no idea how to pay for such a thing.

 

I hope you feel better soon. Please be sure to take care of yourself through all this. Its easy to neglect ourselves in these types of situations. My health was definitely compromised when I dealt with a similar situation.

 

The different hotel in and of itself isn't particularly incriminating. Perhaps he selected that hotel because of its proximity to work or whatever. But like was said above, where there is smoke, there is fire. And there is both here.

 

Your gut is screaming at you, I am sure. Keep with that.

 

As for the bolded part...why don't you just announce to him that you are going with him on this trip? Go ahead and arrange for your Mom to stay with your child and just tell him you are going...that it sounds like fun! Don't ask him if you can go(like you did earlier and he blew you off)...tell him that you are going. Say it with a smile on your face and act happy about it.

 

Watch closely for his reaction.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Snowflower

[Bootsie]

Have you considered it may actually be a different OW, perhaps one closer to home?

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Or let him go alone and surprise him! Sam, as hard as it is when all this evidence pops up to keep your information to yourself and keep your emotions in check, it's very important. Make that your number on priority while you are gathering information.

[woinlove]

Any ideas short of hiring a PI to check on him when he is there? I'd love to do that, but I have no idea how to pay for such a thing.

 

Perhaps your brother could pay and you could pay your brother back on whatever timescale is necessary.

[SamSam68]

Have you considered it may actually be a different OW, perhaps one closer to home?

 

 

 

 

No, I haven't. My intuition is on this ex-gf. My h is a reserved guy and takes a while to warm up in relationships. I think if he was to have an affair, it would be one with an already established comfort level, like an ex with a long history. I may be wrong of course, but sadly, it goes along with his work travel of the past year.

[SamSam68]

I think whichwayisup has hit the nail on the head with this post. Well said. SamSam, please keep this post in mind for perspective as you move forward through this.

 

 

 

I hope you feel better soon. Please be sure to take care of yourself through all this. Its easy to neglect ourselves in these types of situations. My health was definitely compromised when I dealt with a similar situation.

 

The different hotel in and of itself isn't particularly incriminating. Perhaps he selected that hotel because of its proximity to work or whatever. But like was said above, where there is smoke, there is fire. And there is both here.

 

Your gut is screaming at you, I am sure. Keep with that.

 

As for the bolded part...why don't you just announce to him that you are going with him on this trip? Go ahead and arrange for your Mom to stay with your child and just tell him you are going...that it sounds like fun! Don't ask him if you can go(like you did earlier and he blew you off)...tell him that you are going. Say it with a smile on your face and act happy about it.

 

Watch closely for his reaction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I feel like the different hotel is actually the most incriminating thing I've found yet. The reason I think that is my H has a very thrifty and practical side...and uses miles whenever possible. Also, the business with which he consults is close to the beltway so staying in town doesn't make much sense. Heck, when we brought our son to DC last year we stayed in a hotel outside of town which was a pain in the a$$ for sight seeing...dragging a preschooler all over the place. I'm really worked up about this hotel information. I will not let him know I know. I will be interested to see if he tells me he is staying there or if he tells me somewhere else. I never call him on the hotel phone, always on his cellphone...but this time I will most certainly call the hotel.

[jackslife]

I immediately looked up the hotel online and it is a very nice hotel, much more of a "boutique" type than when he travels for business.

 

The hotel is a huge clue. Instead of taking OW to a holiday inn or similar he has upped the game for a romantic meet. I've no idea about the distances involved here, but instead of ringing the hotel, can't you go up and check it out instead when he is there. He won't be looking or expecting you and so will be off guard when he is out and about with this woman.

 

It'll kill you but following the two of them up to the room and knocking the door will give you all the evidence you need. Alternately, find a local PI (local by the hotel not you) and get them to check it out for one day/night only.

 

You can hope for the best but if a tight fisted H doesn't splash out on a plush hotel for himself. I think you need to start treating this not as a question of if he is, take it as red that he is and start gathering evidence.

 

Sorry

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Was the hotel booked before or after you asked to accompany him?

[Snowflower]

I feel like the different hotel is actually the most incriminating thing I've found yet. The reason I think that is my H has a very thrifty and practical side...and uses miles whenever possible. Also, the business with which he consults is close to the beltway so staying in town doesn't make much sense. Heck, when we brought our son to DC last year we stayed in a hotel outside of town which was a pain in the a$$ for sight seeing...dragging a preschooler all over the place. I'm really worked up about this hotel information. I will not let him know I know. I will be interested to see if he tells me he is staying there or if he tells me somewhere else. I never call him on the hotel phone, always on his cellphone...but this time I will most certainly call the hotel.

 

Thanks for the clarification. Gosh, I'm sorry this is happening to you.

 

Do you think it will arouse suspicion if you call the hotel rather than his cell phone like you normally do?

[Raena]

Have you considered putting a VAR in his luggage? It's just a thought. It would work the same way as if you put it in his car.

 

I'm sorry you are going through this. I too know how hard it is to accept that your gut may be right. It took me 6 months to finally find out the truth of what was happening and my gut was right on the money. I'd say go with your gut, it usually isn't wrong.

[SamSam68]

Was the hotel booked before or after you asked to accompany him?

 

 

 

This is a good question. I don't know. I didn't notice the booking date. It was booked through expedia, which I've never known him to use.

[SamSam68]

Thanks for the clarification. Gosh, I'm sorry this is happening to you.

 

Do you think it will arouse suspicion if you call the hotel rather than his cell phone like you normally do?

 

 

 

I think if he tells me he is staying at the beltway Hampton inn and he is actually staying in town at the Fairfax, I have my answer. I will most certainly call him at the Fairfax the day he checks in. If he is lying about where he is staying, that means one thing.

[SamSam68]

I just feel sick. This sucks. Everything sucks. I spend the days with my H at work feeling angry and then when he comes home I feel sick.

 

 

I wish I had a close friend in DC who could go knock on their door. Or pay off the room service guy, lol.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I know how awful this time is. Keeping your phone or a samall point and click handy makes it easy to take photos so that you can go back to look at details.