Recovering from Infidelity

[Mz. Pixie]

I think you hit the nail on the head- since you forgave her infidelity then she should be willing to move past the hurts in the past and look forward.

 

You've tried so hard!!

 

I wonder if it almost isn't comforting to her in ways to hold on to her grudges and easier than perhaps working on the marriage?? Hmmmm??

 

I certainly cannot say that I was perfect in meeting my first husbands needs all of the time either. It's a pattern of resentment that builds slowly, that eats away at your committment and your warm feelings for each other. Love bank withdrawals without deposits....

[cranium]

Taylor23,

 

I almost suggested last night that if she didn't "feel it" and really wasn't interested in trying, that she move out for awhile and the kids stay with me. I'm not going anywhere, she was the one that crossed that line. I guess I'm fearful that she wouldn't come back and that fear makes me indecisive.

 

It would probably be a wake up call to her if I just make the suggestion, but it's not what I really want and I don't think being separated would help us with our communication.

[jmargel]

Do you feel this MC is doing both of you as a couple any good? If not, find someone new. Ask her directly on what she wants out of this marriage. What are her hopes and desires. Then tell her yours. If she doesn't want to work on it, then tell her to leave.

 

When I had problems with my wife things really didn't start to change until I told her to pack up her things & leave. It just hit me one morning among the mess we had. Something inside of me snapped. She said something and all the fear that I had of her leaving just didn't mean anything anymore. When I told her this, she was literally silent. She didn't say anything for about 30 seconds (this is in the middle of a heated argument). She then was adiment that she wasn't going to leave. I told her she was and I then left for work. I had my breaking point.

 

Honestly how long do you want to feel the way you do? You shouldn't have to convince someone to stay with you or love you. She should want this of her own free will. Maybe it's time you say something like that to her. She either needs to sh*t or get off the pot.

 

Head games.. that is what you are in the middle of. The only way to win that game is to not play it.

[Owl]

Shortly after d-day, when my wife agreed to stay but her heart wasn't in it, we started MC.

 

My wife immediately HATED this first MC...because she didn't let my wife get away with anything! My wife tried blaming me for causing her to go to another man...the counselor promptly told her that while I contributed to the state of the marriage, THE CHOICE to go to another man was hers to make...and that my wife couldn't do anything to heal herself or rebuild our marriage until she accepted the responsibilty of her choices. Oh...and regardless of the fact that she didn't actually [get to]sleep with this guy, quit calling it anything other than an affair...call it is what it is. (again, from that counselor)

 

The other thing this counselor repeatedly kept telling my wife is that she had to MAKE A CHOICE TO FIX THE MARRIAGE. My wife wanted to just work on herself, do things for herself, and then see what the marriage looked like and what kind of shape it was in. This lady counselor actually stood up and said loudly to my wife..."That is BS!!!" She said you cannot just sit back and ignore your marriage and suddenly look up one day and find that it's all better!!! She compared it to building a house...you never wish for a house and then suddenly find someday that you've got one built. The first thing you do is to MAKE THE CHOICE to build a house. Then you get a plan for building it. Next, work out getting materials, roll up your sleeves, and step in and DO THE WORK.

 

My wife waffled for about two months about making that choice. She just felt that there wasn't anyway that she could...and she didn't feel that it was fair (what a lousy word after an affair) that she have to do this.

 

Your wife sounds to me like she is at EXACTLY this point. Might I suggest that you copy this post and print it out and give it to her? She needs to realize something...THINGS WILL NEVER GET BETTER UNTIL SHE DECIDES TO MAKE THEM BETTER...AND THEN KICKS IN AND DOES HER PART IN MAKING THEM BETTER!!!

 

My wife refused to see the sense in this for quite a while...but it all made sense a few months later when she was able to look back and see the progress...and how it all started from her CHOICE to start reconciling from the affair. Your wife probably won't see it either. But, she does need a wake up call to realize that if she continues to AVOID making that choice...if she never decides to actively work on fixing the marriage...there is no hope for it to get better. And she might not WANT to work on it...until she starts doing so and sees the changes for the better. My wife felt that way for a whle...and now she understands EXACTLY what was meant...I pray your wife can get the courage to actually try for a short time before she truly feels it will work...she would be AMAZED by what can happen.

[cranium]

jmargel,

 

We actually stopped MC a couple of months ago, but I have resumed IC with our counselor. Things had been going pretty well and our communication was improving. She wants me to take what she is able to offer and be happy with that with the potential of more to follow. Give it time. I've tried to be patient, but I just haven't felt like more will follow. I feel like she wants me to get over her A and rebuild our marriage on her terms. She'll give what she can, but I shouldn't expect anything.

 

Now, the IC will do me some good for other reasons. We both agree I need to find a new job (am miserable currently) and she feels I am indecisive in that regard. I have been indecisive and I know that my unhappiness in my job has been hard on her. I asked if she would support me doing something different even if that meant I had to go back to school and we might have to tighten up on finances etc... She said she didn't know; maybe she would have a few years ago, but not sure about it now.

 

 

My wife wanted to just work on herself, do things for herself, and then see what the marriage looked like and what kind of shape it was in.

 

But, she does need a wake up call to realize that if she continues to AVOID making that choice...if she never decides to actively work on fixing the marriage...there is no hope for it to get better. And she might not WANT to work on it...

 

Maybe we stopped MC to soon. I do feel we were getting to some areas that were uncomfortable for her and she just as soon not discuss. She has been working on the marriage, but I haven't felt she was putting forth mutual effort. For instance, we completed the marriage builders EN questionnaires and read each other's more than a year ago; we both read the Five Love Languages and know what each other's primary languages are. I've worked hard to fulfill hers and even though she's made efforts, I can't honestly say the same for her.

 

I told her that what I hear is - she knows what my needs are and she is choosing not to attempt to fulfill them. Maybe she is too far gone. I hope not, but I am reaching a breaking point. Any other suggestions for a wake up call?

[Ladyjane14]

Have you had a depression screening, Cranium?

 

You've been through alot in the last year or so.... It can sometimes take quite a toll on the body to be in a prolonged state of anxiety.

 

Perhaps you might discuss it with the counselor?

[cranium]

Hey Ladyjane,

 

Yes, I'm dealing with depression. I tried a couple of different meds, remeron and zoloft. Both made me feel worse, almost worthless, so I quit taking. I've tried some more natural alternatives such as SAMe and I'm currently taking St. John's Wort and a B-Complex, but not feeling much better. I am going to check with the counselor to see if there might be another med I could try to get out of this funk.

 

I did join a gym and have been getting myself in better shape. I've also been interviewing and have some promising leads.

 

Thanks to all of you guys for your support. We haven't told many people what is going on with us, so I'm thankful I LS as an outlet.

 

Peace to all -

Cranium

[Ladyjane14]

I'm glad to hear that you're planning to talk with your councelor about this. Depression will increase the difficulty level of the reconcilliation process. It makes it hard to fully appreciate the good things in your life, and the ground you've gained so far.

 

You're smart to be taking good care of yourself.

[cranium]

Well, the weekend bit. We got into it like we've never done before. She's hardly talking to me and barely makes eye contact.

 

She's telling me the same as before; she just doesn't "feel it" and is not sure she loves me anymore. I told her if that was the case and she wasn't willing to meet me halfway and work on things - make the CHOICE to try then I strongly suggested a trial separation, but that she would be the one leaving.

 

Once calmer heads prevailed, I told her I love her and I'm hear to listen whenever she feels like talking. That I would just back off on my needs for a little while. I see our counselor tomorrow and invited her to go with me. She declined, but told me to go ahead and set up another appt for the both of us. That's a start. I'm not a big fan of James Dodson, but I might have to break down and read Love Must Be Tough. That's for you Mz. P. Any other suggestions?

[jmargel]

The love must be tough scenerio worked for me. She was always the one threatening to leave, etc.. So how could I even possibly tell her to leave knowing that she would? She would then disrespect me along with all her immature behavior because she knew I didn't have it in me to kick her out.

 

I read the book (well part of it) and kinda stored that info in the back of my mind. Then one morning I just snapped on something she said. Everything built up to that point. I then told her to get the 'f' out of this house. She looked like a deer in headlights. Didn't know what to say. She then was refusing to go. I knew then that I held a greater power and she was just all talk.

 

I had to use caution on when to use something like that though because it doesn't make a relationship very secure, it does however make a stance on where you are and if she can't meet you halfway then she needs to turn back and leave.

 

We had a big fight yesterday over really nothing.. She was in a pissy mood and was just aiming to hit my buttons. I'm usually pretty calm about things but I told her I had enough & left for the day. She came home last night after work and I wanted to talk to her about the things she said earlier. Instead of an apology she got pissy again and told me she was leaving for the night. All I told her was that I loved her and hope ya stay warm.. lol 15 minutes later she came back.

 

Women love confidence and your not showing it by letting her walk on you. If she said she doesn't love you then just tell her "Well I'm sorry you feel that way, your loss" then walk away. Don't tell her you love her or go out of your way to help her. Let her come to you. Give it time, she will. As long as you are begging to reconsicle she'll push further away. Let her act like a child but then SHOW her what she's going to be losing. Start doing things for yourself, make yourself happy. Let her start putting some effort into this relationship. How about telling her to make the counseling appointment.

[whichwayisup]

JM, I'm proud of you! You've grown so much and become even more wise than before. It seems your way of thinking and handling things at home is better and healthier. Your frustration and anger seem not to be in the limelight like before!

 

It makes for less drama and a more calm life at home. You control your thoughts and reactions, she controls hers...So it seems, and it's slowly paying off, she's coming around...

[Mz. Pixie]

Yeah, I'm proud of JM too!

 

Cranium,

 

Are you sure there is no contact with OM???? She sure is about to give up for some reason and she's already been through so much, why give up now?

[jmargel]

Not to hijack the OP thread but my wife.. she's changed a little. Not much as I'd like so far.

[cranium]

Mz. P,

 

Yes, I'm sure there is no contact with OM. He's moved away and she has been upfront with me the few times she has heard from him. Like in Trimmer's case, she has said she had issues for years and just never discussed. My crystal ball was in the shop. Actually, neither one of us was very good at communicating what we needed. OM just happened to come along when he did.

 

 

I wonder if it almost isn't comforting to her in ways to hold on to her grudges and easier than perhaps working on the marriage?? Hmmmm??

 

I think you might have hit on something here. We'll broach when counseling resumes.

[Mz. Pixie]

You know, letting go of things is hard. I know that many times there is a whole lot of resentment that builds up in a marriage over a period of time.

 

My new H and I are trying to avoid that pitfall by discussing issues as they arise..yeah ,sometimes I'm like, do I have to discuss this now??? But then again it beats the alternative.

 

I'm glad to hear that the OM has moved away and there is no contact- that is one bright spot!

[cranium]

Feel like I am losing my mind. We've had a couple of fights over the last week and all our progress over the last year seems in jeapardy.

 

I shared with my wife that I felt we had been moving forward, but that in just the past week feel like the rug has been pulled from under my feet. She has completely stopped displays of physical touch (my biggest EN), is actually doing the opposite and I am feeling so anxious I am at a loss as to what to do.

 

She told me she doesn't want to give me reassurance if it's not how she really feels. So instead, she is now completely withholding all gestures of affection. She said her gestures of affection and reassurance over the last year have been genuine (for the most part). Felt if she made them, then over time, she would truly come to feel them.

 

She got angry & defensive at us even having the discussion. I asked her how could I be open and honest with what's up for me if I can't trust her with my feelings. My mind goes back and forth between wanting to say something and fearing more turmoil will result. There is no safety.

 

I told her I would rather her go back to making the gestures even if not genuine, than withhold them completely. I don't see how we can make any progress if she cuts me off. I'm going to ask her to read The Love Languages again, focusing on the Love is a choice section.

 

We go to back to MC tomorrow. Just looking for support.

[Owl]

Cranium-

 

Don't know if I have suggested this book to you or not, but it's an easy read and it was a tremendous help for my wife and I.

 

"20 (Suprisingly Simple) Rules and Tools For a Great Marriage" by Dr. Steve Stephens

 

Take a look at a local Christian book store if you can't find it anywhere else. It's a book that has a lot of good info even if you're not a Christian. Just the basic rules and tools that it lists make a lot of sense, and it has some great ideas on practical applications of them too.

 

Matter of fact, my wife and I need to re-read that again ourselves.

[teressa0397]

My wife had a 10 month affair with a single co-worker. We had been in counseling (I arranged) for four months by the time I found out. My discovery ended it for them, but it hasn't ended for me. About four months have passed, our relationship is better than it has been in the past four years and I still struggle with it everyday. They continue to work together, but she has agreed to tell me of any personal conversations they have. We have a relatively small social circle that is comprised mainly of her co-workers. We don't have many opportunities to get out together, but when we do attend functions, there is a pretty good chance the dude will be there. He keeps his distance, but its uncomfortable just the same. Seeing him, especially if unexpectedly, throws it all in my face again. I feel like I need to say something to him to clear the air for me. I definitely want to tell him not to speak to my children; I've told my wife this and she knows that is how I feel, but she hasn't asked him not to. Is it okay for me to have this conversation with him? I can't make him quit his job and I don't want them to remain friends.

 

She says that she is totally amazed at how I have been - that I have been patient, forgiving and that I have given her a second chance at a lifelong commitment. How do I stop our relationship from dominating my waking moments?

if i was you i would make her quick her job. Because as long as they work together they are attracted to each other Still.... your wife needs to get away from him start over with a new job. She could break down. If you need to tell this other man stay away do it, if it makes you feel better gives you a piece of mind, REmenber this watch her action's stay alert.

[cranium]

I know I am going to get flamed for this post. Deservedly so. But, I’m back posting just the same because I still need help. The easy thing would have been to disappear. Hopefully, you all can maintain an open mind and continue to provide me much needed advice and support.

 

Okay, here goes. I have been sanctimonious and self-righteous and for that I am very, very sorry. I, too, have been unfaithful to my wife. More than 10 years ago, before we started a family, I had a short affair. Like most, I had emotional needs that were not being met. I tried and tried to discuss these issues with my wife, but she would either become defensive or just ignore me. I never thought I would stray. I know I made the choice and crossed the line. I ended my A quietly and returned to my wife. I knew it was wrong. It wasn’t what I wanted – she was and still is.

 

I was then and I am now committed to my wife and I do take that commitment seriously. I vowed to stay with her and build a life together. But, I never addressed what had occurred. And I never got resolution to my issues.

 

Fast forward to her request for a separation and her affair. Even though I knew I had been unfaithful, I didn’t know how to tell her and I didn’t know how to deal with my wife being in love with another man. I was hurt and depressed, but also harboring guilt about my own behavior and knew what could lead someone there. I was prepared to carry the guilt and not put her through the same pain that I’ve been through. I guess I thought I got what I deserved.

 

Our MC told us that her A could have ended without me ever finding out. That the issues we needed to resolve had nothing to do with her OM. She was trying to end it when she got caught. Maybe I used that rational as justification for not telling her.

 

I thought that I could take what had happened with her and work to resolve both of our issues. I also knew that decision was not entirely up to me, that I was not being fair to her. I knew in my heart that telling her might also help alleviate some of her guilt to know she wasn’t alone. Allow her to forgive herself. I wanted so many times to come clean, but just didn’t know how I could and also protect her. I also knew when things worked out for us, I wouldn’t want to go the rest of our lives carrying this secret.

 

I have worked from the position of both the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse since I discovered her A. I have tried to fix my part by addressing her EN’s and fulfilling them to the best of my ability.

 

A few nights ago she asked me for the first time if I had ever been unfaithful. We have made so much progress in being open and honest. I could not lie to her or be dishonest by omission anymore. So, now she knows.

We discussed all of this with our MC. He has told us if we are going to make this work, we both need to forgive each other and get on with our marriage. He advised me to never mention her A again.

 

Coming clean did in a way liberate me from the guilt, fear and depression I have carried for so long, but that is not the reason I told her. I have been working hard to establish a whole new level of intimacy and honesty. But I also continue to have EN’s that are not being fulfilled. I’m hopeful that once she gets past the initial hurt, shock, anger, we may be able to resume our reconciliation with a renewed commitment on both our parts.

 

She mentioned last night that we may still need to separate for a little while. I told her I disagree. Us splitting up is the last thing that I want. I am committed to making this work. I want us to stay together and stay married, but with a completely new level of commitment and communication. I want us to live in the same household and raise our children together. It drives me crazy to think of things any other way.

 

We see our MC again this week and will discuss in greater detail. Again, I apologize to all of you wonderful people here at LS for not being forthright sooner. I know some of you are cursing me; I should expect that. Your support and insight have been invaluable to me and I hope I can continue to come here both to receive and offer support.

 

I now need help in communicating with my wife that we need to spend more time together, not less and that being separated will not help us achieve that goal. Also, if she is adamant on a separation, I don’t want to be the one to move out. I am the one wanting to keep the family together. Is that a fair position for me to take?

[Ladyjane14]

That secret must have been really hard to live with, Cranium. It was a long time ago too, and probably feels a bit surreal after all these years.

 

This is old news to you...and fresh news for your wife. But sadly, I don't think your BIG problems are going to stem so much from what you did ten years ago as from what you've done recently. You've had a very difficult time reconciling your wife's affair. You've introduced a certain amount of pressure for her to reassure you....and in some ways....to make this up to you.

 

She's going to be pissed. She understands how affairs happen. She's been there and done that. What she's NOT going to understand is how you were able to 'ride her ass' over her mistakes, all the while having committed the same yourself.

 

She's going to need some time to deal with her anger. She's going to see herself as being held to a standard different from the one you adopted for yourself. Because this news IS fresh to her, it's going to seem like you just did it last week.

 

All that said, I don't think you should leave the home. I think that if your goal is to stay in the marriage and keep your family together, you should only endeavor in actions that uphold your goal.

 

Your best bet is to bargain for time. If you can manage to convince her to allow cohabitation for at least a limited while, say 6 months or so...maybe her anger will cool. It will be particularly helpful if you can do this while giving her an emotional break from 'working' on the relationship. She needs some space. And if you can give it to her 'in house', you'll be in a better position to negotiate a true reconcilliation later on down the pike.

 

You stepped off the path ten years ago. That doesn't negate your contribution to the family as a good husband and father in the years since then. Keep that in mind.

 

I'm sure you're 'wearing the hairshirt' right now, but I honestly think it's a mistake to deviate from your true goals. So, if you want your family together....make whatever compromises are necessary to KEEP it together. Every day that passes without a physical separation in play improves your odds.

 

ALL the cards are on the table now; the truth is out. If you two make it through this...you're going to be strong enough to make it through just about anything. But you'll need to reduce the pressure in your household.

 

Your wife's going to be like a lit match right about now. Best to keep combustibles out of her reach.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

Cranium,

I've read your entire thread. I am sorry for what is going on in your family right now. I know that it must be a very difficult time to live when you and your spouse are not on the same level of intimacy, or "love" as I'd like to call it. Let me share with you my story. I, like your wife, have been asking my husband for a separation, or at least a trial separation. But he adamantly refuses. So now we are coping with each other's presence with new rules, such as no cursing, no yelling, and treating each other with respect.

 

We are basically living like friends, meaning that we don't do anything intimate. It has been such a relief to me not having to deal with turning his sexual request every night or squirm when he wants to kiss me. What I am trying to say is that you may have to give her some space, so that she can sort out her feelings. If you don't want to live in separate quarters, at least agree to leave her alone. Be kind to her, but do not EXPECT anything from her in return. Slowly, I'm sure, she will regain her love for you. I am hoping the same goes for me.

[sylviaguardian]

Cranium,

 

You did a good thing. I think secrets within marriages are very destructive. The fact that you had your affair a long time ago says that you and her need to do a lot of work on the marriage.

 

You are now going to be taking a lot of anger coming your way, which might be a bit hard to swallow, given that her affair is so recent. But take it, is what you're going to have to do.

 

I think it's ok to say that you won't move out. I think that the person who wants a separation should be the one to leave. Lady Jane's advice is probably good - ask for a period of time to re-stabilise.

 

Keep plugging away,

 

Syl

[Mz. Pixie]

Cranium,

 

I'm so proud of you!!!

 

I know you're a good person just like I am- and that this is proof that people do not have to be horrible to cheat.

 

I'm proud of you for telling her. I just finally came completely clean to my new hubby- who didn't have all the details of the affair I had during my first marriage. Even though I was scared, because I'd hid it from him before partially. To my surprise, even though he's been the BS, he didn't turn away from me. He has shown me what unconditional love is all about.

 

It's probably not going to be that easy for you, because I would imagine you hammered your wife pretty good when you found out about her A, and she is probably going to remember some of your words now but that's okay. The point is you're trying to make things work. You've been honest.

 

LJ had some good words for you as well but I just wanted to let you know that I'm proud of you, and that I know where you've been and it's not fun.

 

Hang in there my friend.

[cranium]

Thanks LJ, syl, khlf and Mz. P.,

 

Each of your replies lifted my spirits today.

 

If you can manage to convince her to allow cohabitation for at least a limited while, say 6 months or so...maybe her anger will cool. It will be particularly helpful if you can do this while giving her an emotional break from 'working' on the relationship. She needs some space. And if you can give it to her 'in house', you'll be in a better position to negotiate a true reconcilliation later on down the pike.

 

We talked a lot last night. Basically comes down to her thinking/feeling that she no longer wishes to share her daily experiences with me. Suggested that we get a apt and take turns staying out of the house. Neither of us necessarily pack our bags, but alternate evenings away - something to that effect. Try to keep things as normal as possible for the children. She says she knows the best thing in the end for all is for us to stay married. But, she doesn't know if she wants to stay married.

 

I honestly think it's a mistake to deviate from your true goals. So, if you want your family together....make whatever compromises are necessary to KEEP it together.

 

Know I can't make her reconcile or have feelings she says she's not having. I don't want either of us to leave the house. Nor am I comfortable agreeing to taking turns away. I still feel if she really needs the space, we figure it out 'in house' or she does what she has to do. I don't feel I should have to leave any evening; is this an unreasonable position? Do I need to compromise on this?

[jmargel]

OK listen here.. You are basically telling us that she's been having an affair on you and since then has been trying to call all the shots. Her wanting you to basically to not stay at the house is bull****. I'm sorry but you really need to grow a backbone here. As long as you roll over and piddle she's going to keep whipping you like a dog.

 

She has faced no consequences for what she's done. IMO if I were in your shoes and she were to say this to me, here would be my reaction

 

"If you don't love me, if you don't want to share your heart with me anymore then I believe the best thing for you is to leave this house. I won't since I am the one wanting this to work and you have been fighting me the whole way. If you leave I wish you well, if you decide to stay then we need to see a marriage counselor this week. Beyond that there is nothing more I can say regarding this".

 

Then just leave it at that. Let her make the next move. And then GO through with it if it means her leaving the house.

 

You have become her puppet and she is pulling the strings. She doesn't respect you because you are not showing any confidence in yourself. You are begging her to keep this relationship going and she is play games. Show her you mean business, otherwise you will definetly lose her. Make her THINK, make her REALIZE that she WILL lose everything. She's acting like a child and you're coddling her.