Recovering from Infidelity

[Ladyjane14]

Know I can't make her reconcile or have feelings she says she's not having. I don't want either of us to leave the house. Nor am I comfortable agreeing to taking turns away. I still feel if she really needs the space, we figure it out 'in house' or she does what she has to do. I don't feel I should have to leave any evening; is this an unreasonable position? Do I need to compromise on this?

 

If you don't want a separation....then don't agree to one. Simple as that.

 

You're right.... You can't reconcile her feelings for her. That's why you have to STOP your urge to resolve the conflict, and give her TIME to reconcile her emotions for herself. Don't push her on that.

 

I still feel if she really needs the space, we figure it out 'in house' or she does what she has to do.

 

I'm in agreement. You can't make her decisions for her, but it's almost dishonest to go against your actual goal. At the minimum, you're sticking to what you believe in. I think anything else would be "game-playing".

[Ladyjane14]

It has been such a relief to me not having to deal with turning his sexual request every night or squirm when he wants to kiss me. What I am trying to say is that you may have to give her some space, so that she can sort out her feelings. If you don't want to live in separate quarters, at least agree to leave her alone. Be kind to her, but do not EXPECT anything from her in return. Slowly, I'm sure, she will regain her love for you. I am hoping the same goes for me.

 

Just wanted to point this post out to you again. I think KnowHowLoveFeels is giving you some valuable insight here.

[Brittanyjean06]

Sorry if this post, seems a bit delayed..

 

your wife was having a 10 month affair?? I probally would have made her quit her job and kicked her to the curb...you can't trust someone like that...thats nothing little, and she still works with him??? lord i dont know how you would be able to do that...

[cranium]

OP by Ladyjane14

You're right.... You can't reconcile her feelings for her. That's why you have to STOP your urge to resolve the conflict, and give her TIME to reconcile her emotions for herself. Don't push her on that.

 

I have tried to resolve the conflict for both of us and it's a tough urge to stop. I want my family back. I'm willing to slam on the brakes, give her time and not push if I know there is hope for reconciliation.

 

You can't make her decisions for her, but it's almost dishonest to go against your actual goal. At the minimum, you're sticking to what you believe in. I think anything else would be "game-playing".

 

Right. I don't want to "game-play" and allow a separation I don't want or believe in. I also don't want to give time/space for her to "game-play" if reconciliation is not her ultimate goal.

 

MC today. It's been a brutal week.

[Ladyjane14]

...if I know there is hope for reconciliation.

 

The coming days are going to be a difficult time for you. But all you can do is to make the 'leap of faith' and give her some TIME. Have some faith that the two of you will make it through. Why cross the 'divorce bridge' before you have to?

 

If you allow yourself the liberty of playing with words like "IF", your resolve will crumble. You won't be able to create that "in house" space despite your best intentions. You'll end up pushing to get the reassurance that you need, and it'll end up costing you.

 

You've been craving "reassurance" from her in large doses all this time. You got shook up by her affair, and you want to know that everything's going to be okay.

 

But she's not going to work through her anger AT YOU and be able to give reassurance regarding the relationship TO YOU at the same time.

 

Resolution WILL come. She'll either work through her anger, or she'll leave you. There's not a whole lot you can do to affect the outcome....except to just keep on 'being there'.....steady as a rock.

[cranium]

But she's not going to work through her anger AT YOU and be able to give reassurance regarding the relationship TO YOU at the same time.

 

Resolution WILL come. She'll either work through her anger, or she'll leave you. There's not a whole lot you can do to affect the outcome....

 

 

I PM'd Mz. P about this -

 

She feels trapped in our home. I told her I was prepared to give her the space she needs, but couldn't share in a decision that takes me out of the house or is counter to my goal of keeping the family together. She understands, but also feels/knows she can't move out because of the children.

 

She's really angry about me being self-righteous and acting virtuous for so long since finding out about her A. She feels manipulated. She thinks this is indicative of a deeper thread that has always run through our relationship.

 

As you said LJ, not a whole lot I can do.

[Ladyjane14]

I PM'd Mz. P about this -

 

She feels trapped in our home. I told her I was prepared to give her the space she needs, but couldn't share in a decision that takes me out of the house or is counter to my goal of keeping the family together. She understands, but also feels/knows she can't move out because of the children.

 

She's really angry about me being self-righteous and acting virtuous for so long since finding out about her A. She feels manipulated. She thinks this is indicative of a deeper thread that has always run through our relationship.

 

As you said LJ, not a whole lot I can do.

 

I think that MzPixie is in a position to give you great advice in this.

She's been in a similar position and will have some valuable insight for you.

 

You're walking a tightrope right now. The important thing is to keep your focus on your goals and NOT get lost in the minutia of the conflict.

 

Give the dust some time to settle, and don't allow yourself to be provoked by your wife's anger. You're going to have to dig deep and be thick-skinned for a good long while. She'll be wanting to manipulate you into leaving. That's because she's mad at you....not necessarily because she doesn't love you.

 

I think you'll BOTH do well to defer any decision to separate until you can be absolutely certain that you're not making choices under emotional duress. Let her resolve her anger and her resentment first. Then, see where you stand.

[cranium]

Look's like I'm headed to the Separation and Divorce board. She's telling me she's done. Not open to the possibility of exploring us anymore; no longer wants an intimate relationship with me.

 

Our youngest will be 4 this year. My wife says her feeling this way goes back further. I don't know what to do anymore.

[Curmudgeon]

a lot of excuses for your wife, why she can't leave, how it happened, why it took four months of counseling for it to come out, what she's doing now, etc.

 

What do you really want (aside from stomping him)? If you'd be more comfortable with her leaving that job I think you should tell her and stick to it. Then the ball's in her court to show how much she cares about your feelings, or not.

 

Disclosure: If it had been me, infidelity is a deal-breaker and I'd be gone.

[Ladyjane14]

Look's like I'm headed to the Separation and Divorce board. She's telling me she's done. Not open to the possibility of exploring us anymore; no longer wants an intimate relationship with me.

 

Of course she says she's "done". She wants you to LEAVE.

 

But it's like I told you before, you're not going to have the privilege of being 'thin-skinned' right now. This is one variant of the assorted manipulations that she'll use in order to get the separation she wants.

 

It goes something like this: "Fine...I'll just divorce you out-of-hand, and we won't work on the marriage AT ALL.":mad:

 

It's a threat, kiddo.

 

I'm not saying it's an empty one. She may very well decide to divorce you. But I can't help but think that if she does....she'll do it eventually anyway regardless of IF you agree to separation or not.

 

Your quote above leads me to believe that you've possibly engaged in 'relationship talk'. If so, that's NOT giving her "space" unless she's the one who initiates it.

 

She had NO right to cheat on you. But you had the opportunity to leave the marriage, and instead YOU made the decision to take her back. YOU are the one who wants to keep the marriage intact. That means that YOU are the one with the 'agenda'.

 

Because you are the one with the agenda....you're going to have to allow her to work through her anger. You're gonna have to 'play ball' without giving up homefield advantage. You CANNOT push.....nor can you back away. (I wasn't kidding when I told you it's like walking a tightrope.)

 

She cheated....but so did you. This is NEWS to her and it comes AFTER months of her trying to make amends and be a good wife to you. She has an absolute right to be pissed off about now.

 

You've BOTH been through sooooo much emotional turmoil already that neither one of you can't afford the extra strain of wearing your heart on your sleeve. You need an emotional time-out. But you need to do that "in-house", so you can put a little 'love-drop' in her bucket EVERY day.

 

That means small stuff. It's scrubbing out the toilet, loading the dishwasher, or walking the dog type stuff. She needs to see that she needs you, if only for helping her out in her day-to-day. Anything more is going to be met with resistance, and is best left for later....after the immediate crisis is past..

[cranium]

YOU are the one who wants to keep the marriage intact. That means that YOU are the one with the 'agenda'.

 

Because you are the one with the agenda....you're going to have to allow her to work through her anger. You're gonna have to 'play ball' without giving up homefield advantage. You CANNOT push.....nor can you back away. (I wasn't kidding when I told you it's like walking a tightrope.)

 

No change in her temperament. I'm following your advice Lj and not pushing or backing down. We've had no relationship talks; doesn't really say much of anything to me. I'm staying busy with work, the kids and going to the gym. Going out with friends tonight. Focusing on me, but it is difficult.

 

 

You've BOTH been through sooooo much emotional turmoil already that neither one of you can't afford the extra strain of wearing your heart on your sleeve. You need an emotional time-out. But you need to do that "in-house", so you can put a little 'love-drop' in her bucket EVERY day.

 

That means small stuff. It's scrubbing out the toilet, loading the dishwasher, or walking the dog type stuff. She needs to see that she needs you, if only for helping her out in her day-to-day. Anything more is going to be met with resistance, and is best left for later....after the immediate crisis is past..

 

I always have done the small stuff. Laundry, ironing, dishes, you name it. I don't think she sees any of it as helping her out, though. She isn't open to accepting any 'love bank' contributions at present. She's withdrawn and her Taker is in charge.

 

I saw our MC alone this week. MW asked that I set up an appt for both of us. MC set an appt, but wants me to talk with her first and see what she wants to talk about before seeing us together - have an understanding of her 'agenda'. Then, I can decide if I want her to attend.

 

Thoughts?

[Ladyjane14]

MW asked that I set up an appt for both of us. MC set an appt, but wants me to talk with her first and see what she wants to talk about before seeing us together - have an understanding of her 'agenda'. Then, I can decide if I want her to attend.

 

Thoughts?

 

Well, a week ago you posted that you were on your way to Separation & Divorce because your wife was "done". But here you are.....a full week later and she has asked that you "set up an appt" with your MC.

 

While, I seriously doubt that the crisis has completely passed, this is still an improvement on being "done".

 

I think it would be wise of you to let your MC know in advance that you want this session to be a positive experience for your wife. You don't want to scare her off by 'calling her on the carpet' for her previous transgressions. Accountability for ones actions must be made, but in light of all your previous posts....wouldn't you say that she's already 'been there and done that'?

 

She's made herself accountable. She's displayed REAL remorse and regret. She's worked to try and fulfill your ENs, and while she hasn't been 100% successful in meeting them all, wouldn't you say that she's made a fairly good go of it?

 

I think that Waywards can be divided into two groups. In one group, you would have your serial cheaters and narcissists.....people who feel somewhat entitled. In the other, you have those people who..for whatever reason...have become psychologically fragile. They don't feel "entitled", they just feel DESPERATE.

 

For the serial cheater/narcissist 'the end justifies the means'. Don't get me wrong....these are seriously troubled people. Literally EVERYTHING that applies to them in their quest for self-validation is a matter of "desperation". They give alot of lip-service to empathizing with others...but in the end, their actions always end up as self-serving, and their relationships with family, friends, and lovers almost always end up littered like so many dried-out bones on the floor. Narcissists have NO CLUE as to why that always happens to them. They are mystified, and they feel truly victimized by it.

 

These are sad folks. They are worthy of our pity but not our sufferance.....because they are emotional vampires, sucking the juice out of everyone around them and discarding the husks. Toxic.

 

For those who are "psychologically fragile" the lying and cheating are NOT in character. It's an aberration. Often their "desperation" can be pinpointed to a cause that has affected their judgement......depression, abuse, low self-esteem, grief, etc. It doesn't mean that they aren't WHOLLY convinced they're doing the right thing....when all the while they're doing the WRONG THING. But in my opinion, it's the Waywards from this group who are lost in "the fog". They are the ones who can possibly reemerge, and become wonderful, loving partners again.

 

I get the feeling that your wife could be classified in this second group, Cranium. She might have made a "desperate" mistake. If that's true, then whatever the "cause" of that mistake needs to be addressed and treated. It would be IMPERATIVE that she find an atmosphere that emotionally supports her and addresses her needs when she gets to that MC appointment. This would NOT be the time to address your concerns.

 

If she is still among the 'broken ones', then all this time you may have been trying to "fix" your marriage with a partner who is not yet whole and well. If that's the case....then it's little wonder that you're still spinning your wheels in your attempt to regain true intimacy. The 'broken ones' can't bring their A-game afterall.

 

I can't tell you how to put a PA behind you. I can't blame ANYONE for not wanting to.

But I can tell you that in dealing with my husband EA, there was "cause", and I did find my husband to be emotionally "fragile". I had to concentrate my efforts on healing him first and foremost. I had to put my own needs aside for awhile.

 

It was kind of like seeing him teetering at the edge of an abyss. I couldn't offer my hand to him and hold onto my own resentments or insecurities. I had to let them go, otherwise I'd never be able to extend myself far enough to reach him. For me, it was a matter of moments. For him, it was a matter of weeks and months before he could believe that I wouldn't withdraw the hand I had offered him.

 

In my hand....I offered him help and acceptance. I joined his 'team', and his wholeness and wellness became our goal. I was able do that because even though I was hurt....I wasn't "broken". I was still 'up and running'.

 

I'm not going to blow any sunshine up your skirt.... It was difficult, and I was often filled with doubt. And sometimes, I felt like a huge schmuck for believing in him. But in the end...it paid off. Because even BEFORE we'd accomplished our goal of putting 'Humpty Dumpty back together again"....he was RECIPROCATING like crazy!!!

 

Anyway....I've managed to ramble, but it occurs to me that maybe there's still a need to look back to the original 'cause' of your wife's affair. Although, I don't think I'd push her to talk about it in counseling. I think maybe you'll have to get through the current crisis first.

 

For now, it might be best to present a nurturing environment, where she feels safe and secure. Maybe you should suggest to the counselor that s/he allow your wife to lead the session. No pressuring...just allowing her to talk about whatever she has on her mind.

 

What do you think?

[Mz. Pixie]

Well, a week ago you posted that you were on your way to Separation & Divorce because your wife was "done". But here you are.....a full week later and she has asked that you "set up an appt" with your MC.

 

 

I think that Waywards can be divided into two groups. In one group, you would have your serial cheaters and narcissists.....people who feel somewhat entitled. In the other, you have those people who..for whatever reason...have become psychologically fragile. They don't feel "entitled", they just feel DESPERATE.

 

For those who are "psychologically fragile" the lying and cheating are NOT in character. It's an aberration. Often their "desperation" can be pinpointed to a cause that has affected their judgement......depression, abuse, low self-esteem, grief, etc. It doesn't mean that they aren't WHOLLY convinced they're doing the right thing....when all the while they're doing the WRONG THING. But in my opinion, it's the Waywards from this group who are lost in "the fog". They are the ones who can possibly reemerge, and become wonderful, loving partners again.

 

 

WOW, Ladyjane- that was excellent. I would definitely put myself in the "desperate" category!

 

Cranium, I definitely think you guys are making progress! She's agreed this week to see the MC- and last week she was done.

 

How are things at home right now?? Are you guys sleeping in the same room?

[cranium]

Well, a week ago you posted that you were on your way to Separation & Divorce because your wife was "done". But here you are.....a full week later and she has asked that you "set up an appt" with your MC.

 

While, I seriously doubt that the crisis has completely passed, this is still an improvement on being "done"

 

Maybe you should suggest to the counselor that s/he allow your wife to lead the session. No pressuring...just allowing her to talk about whatever she has on her mind.

 

She wants to attend the appointment so we can being discussions with our MC on how to tell the children and effectively co-parent. Her feelings have not changed and she no longer wants to be married. She feels I'm not listening to her.

 

Have to run. Will post more later.

[cranium]

She's made herself accountable. She's displayed REAL remorse and regret. She's worked to try and fulfill your ENs, and while she hasn't been 100% successful in meeting them all, wouldn't you say that she's made a fairly good go of it?

 

Yes, I would agree that she has made a good go of it. She wasn't insincere, but she hasn't really "felt" it since before her A. Fake it 'til you make it. She doesn't want to fake it anymore.

 

For those who are "psychologically fragile" the lying and cheating are NOT in character. It's an aberration. Often their "desperation" can be pinpointed to a cause that has affected their judgement......depression, abuse, low self-esteem, grief, etc. It doesn't mean that they aren't WHOLLY convinced they're doing the right thing....when all the while they're doing the WRONG THING. But in my opinion, it's the Waywards from this group who are lost in "the fog". They are the ones who can possibly reemerge, and become wonderful, loving partners again.

 

I get the feeling that your wife could be classified in this second group, Cranium. She might have made a "desperate" mistake. If that's true, then whatever the "cause" of that mistake needs to be addressed and treated.

 

I think we both are in this second group; both made desperate mistakes. But, neither of us have addressed and treated the "cause". I think, in a way, because I never resolved my "cause", I indirectly contributed to her A. We both have been moving along, existing with each other, but not whole.

 

If she is still among the 'broken ones', then all this time you may have been trying to "fix" your marriage with a partner who is not yet whole and well. If that's the case....then it's little wonder that you're still spinning your wheels in your attempt to regain true intimacy. The 'broken ones' can't bring their A-game afterall.

 

I have been working to "fix" our marriage with a partner who is not and has not been truly committed to "fixing" our marriage. She made a good go of it, but it has been clear she wasn't "feeling" it. Now, she's reached her end.

 

How are things at home right now?? Are you guys sleeping in the same room?

 

We are still sleeping in the same room, but the room is cold. We speak about the kids, but not much else. She's still angry. I feel like she's angry that I haven't emotionally detached from her based on her timeline.

 

What next?

[Mz. Pixie]

 

 

I have been working to "fix" our marriage with a partner who is not and has not been truly committed to "fixing" our marriage. She made a good go of it, but it has been clear she wasn't "feeling" it. Now, she's reached her end.

 

 

 

We are still sleeping in the same room, but the room is cold. We speak about the kids, but not much else. She's still angry. I feel like she's angry that I haven't emotionally detached from her based on her timeline.

 

What next?

 

Perhaps she is angry about that, however, those are her feelings and you're entitled to have your own timeline here.

 

Your hope is for a stronger, more enjoyable marriage I know- keep your eyes on the prize.

 

I think she's extremely hurt right now and perhaps doesn't know how to act. I would weigh heavily the fact that how long ago your affair was to begin with, but that's just me.

[Ladyjane14]

She's still angry. I feel like she's angry that I haven't emotionally detached from her based on her timeline.

 

Yes, I think you're right. She's still angry. You're not giving her what she thinks she wants.

 

I don't want to give you false hopes for recovery. She might very well mean what she says. All I'm saying is that it's not possible to know for sure until her angers wanes. That's going to take quite a while. You REALLY pissed her off!

 

The fact that you two are going to MC together will give you a better chance. But I think it's important that she feels the appropriate amount of concern is being made to her agenda once she gets there. You don't want her to 'hit a brick wall' in the counselor's office. She needs to feel that she's being heard.

 

Other than that....all you can do is to continue what you're doing. That would be NOT pushing for immediate resolution and continuing to "extend your hand". She's going to try to push you away. That's a given. But you don't have to respond to that. You just keep putting a 'little drop' in her bucket everyday.

[cranium]

The fact that you two are going to MC together will give you a better chance. But I think it's important that she feels the appropriate amount of concern is being made to her agenda once she gets there.

 

She keeps telling me I'm not listening. Her agenda is to move on; she does not want to remain married; doesn't want to plan for the future. She thinks I'm just trying to wait her out and that somehow something will change. She's concerned that I am trying to make her feel guilty about the children b/c I think she should take the heat if this is what she wants. I'm really worried about them, especially our 8 year old.

 

She suggested that we continue living the way we have been (separate within the same house) until the end of the school year. She knows nothing is going to change on her part, but to compromise and give me some additional time to prepare for the transition.

 

I think it would be prudent of me to contact an attorney at this point.

[Ladyjane14]

She thinks I'm just trying to wait her out and that somehow something will change.

 

Yeah....that's pretty much what you're doing. The alternative is to throw in the towel and call it a day.

 

Certainly, there IS a better than average possibility that she won't change her outlook. But it you don't give it time....the marriage ends NOW. What do you have to lose?

[cranium]

But it you don't give it time....the marriage ends NOW. What do you have to lose?

 

I'm giving her space and focusing on me and my relationship with our children. I'm not going to help her leave me, though.