Spousal support hearing Thursday

[Teri38]

I've been separated from my stbxh for over 3 months, my support hearing is on Thursday. I'm scared of seeing him, he's very verbally abusive and threatened to hit me before I moved out. I did get a temporary protection order on him which allowed me time to pack my things. I've been living with friends and all my belongings are in a storage rental. I've had no contact with him since I moved out but he's sent me several nasty emails & texts.

 

A little background info, married for 7 years, no children thank God and live in *******. He lies about everything, he's all over the internet on dating websites, etc texting and meeting women all of which I have proof of, he makes 450K while I make 50k. He says he's keeping the house and also took 3 of the 4 vehicles, he bought 2 homes a little over a year ago without my knowledge or consent, he thinks I'll settle for $150k or less and no spousal support, there's at least 500k in property equity, he keeps saying its his house, his money, his cars, etc.

 

Anyone here have experience getting temporary spousal support in **? I'm very nervous, I do have what I believe to be a very good lawyer. I also copied every financial document (bank accounts, life insurance, pension, 401k, car titles, retirement account, etc.) I could get my hands on but I'm sure there's a lot of money he's hiding from me.

 

Please forgive my rambling, I'm becoming a nervous wreck thinking about having to see him Thursday.

 

thanks for listening,

Teri

Edited July 28, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[PegNosePete]

I'm not sure asking random strangers on the internet is a good idea, when you're paying a professional who has all the knowledge, details and case history in front of him... he is in a much better position to offer reliable advice. If you don't think your lawyer is any good then you can ask another but I would take advice on what they think they can get you, before doing a switch, since switching could be harmful.

[Teri38]

I believe my lawyer is very good and wasn't considering a switch, I was only looking for other people's experience with spousal support hearings in PA. Should have made myself more clear, thanks for your reply.

[slizl]

You shoudl get half of everything accumulated while being married. You can also probably get around 10k a month for 3.5 years if your marrigage last 7 years. I live in CA, and am going through a divorce. Thank god my ex and I are on good terms and she only asked for child support. Personally, I think alimony is a joke, but you have to do what you think is right. I don't argue with the fact that you deserve 50% of everything accumulated during the marriage though.

 

PS, if he tries to hide money from you and gets caught, he will be screwed. Judges typically don't like this at all, and you coudl be awarded even more money if he chooses to go that route. You should be able to get temporary support as well as probably getting him to pay your lawyer expenses as well.

[RonaldS]

No kids?

 

You should get 1/2 of whatever assets you've accrued during the course of the marriage.

 

Regarding alimony....get it while you can. A lot of states are doing away with it, as they should. Alimony is an extremely antiquated idea. Take yourself, for example....you should get a nice payout on assets plus you bring in $50k/yr. Why should your ex continue to pay your way? If you can't walk with $250k plus a having $50k/yr in income and make it....

 

My XW gets zero alimony, and she technically didn't work while we were together. She gets child support and that's it. The courts did not think I owed her a lifestyle. I think their thinking on the matter is that if she was grown up enough to leave a marriage, she was grown up enough to take care of herself.

 

If you can get it, then go for it. It will be fun for you to have a free $120k/yr. That being said, be prepared to get denied. The courts are changing their view of ex-husbands paying ex-wive's way (or vice-versa)

Edited July 28, 2014 by RonaldS

[Teri38]

No kids?

 

No kids, he lied to me about that too, he does have 2 children from a previous marriage and he knew I'd never would have been with him if he had of told me he never wanted to have any more kids, now I find out he had a vasectomy before we ever met, GD Liar!!!

 

You should get 1/2 of whatever assets you've accrued during the course of the marriage.

 

Regarding alimony....get it while you can. A lot of states are doing away with it, as they should. Alimony is an extremely antiquated idea. Take yourself, for example....you should get a nice payout on assets plus you bring in $50k/yr. Why should your ex continue to pay your way? If you can't walk with $250k plus a having $50k/yr in income and make it....

 

So just forget the all the lies and the screwing around, how about the 5k he sent an ex-girlfriend to help pay her bills?? What about all the money he's throwing out the window on his whore's and online dating services, motel rooms, flowers, etc.? Pay my way?? He cut his own throat and I've got the evidence to prove it

 

 

My XW gets zero alimony, and she technically didn't work while we were together. She gets child support and that's it. The courts did not think I owed her a lifestyle. I think their thinking on the matter is that if she was grown up enough to leave a marriage, she was grown up enough to take care of herself.

I feel very sorry for you wife!!

 

If you can get it, then go for it. It will be fun for you to have a free $120k/yr. That being said, be prepared to get denied. The courts are changing their view of ex-husbands paying ex-wive's way (or vice-versa)

 

Again, I feel very sorry for your wife, it must have been awful for her!!

[SuperGeek]

Assets are awarded based on financial assets only in most states with no-fault divorce laws. This means a divorce judge will look at the financial picture, take both of your incomes into account, and typically award each person 40-60%. Child support is awarded if there are kids. Alimony used to be awarded a lot more, but since most couples have two incomes, it doesn't make as much sense like it did in 70s. There are cases where you can still get award alimony if the income differences are vast, but this is only typical in states that do not have no-fault divorce laws (i am not sure about your state). Most of the divorces (friends) i've seen, usually only alimony is awarded in situations where there are kids involved. There was one friend who did get about 300k but her husband was making over 2million a year.

 

My point is that, it doesn't matter what he lied about, who cheated on who, or whatever. None of that gets taken into account when in a no-fault divorce state as the awards are based solely on financial assets. Lying about hiding money could be presented to the court if your lawyer can find a way to present it in a legal manner, but I don't know the specifics of that. Anything that isn't financial related or related to abuse typically isn't admissible in divorce court (at least in my experience).

 

I am not a lawyer, but I have been through divorce myself and at the end, it was all based on financial assets. 50% was awarded and no alimony. no kids involved. Your husband seems to have a much higher income than you do, so you do have that to your advantage.

 

As the previous poster said, go ahead and try to get alimony, but with a job making a livable wage, it might be difficult. My guess is you'll probably get some short term support for a few years.

 

Good luck

 

So just forget the all the lies and the screwing around, how about the 5k he sent an ex-girlfriend to help pay her bills?? What about all the money he's throwing out the window on his whore's and online dating services, motel rooms, flowers, etc.? Pay my way?? He cut his own throat and I've got the evidence to prove it

Edited July 29, 2014 by SuperGeek

[Chi townD]

Yeah, tough call. Depends on the Judge.

 

 

I have a feeling that marital assets will be split 50/50 and that is to include the 2 houses he just bought (or have to buy you out of principal shares). And he might have to honor all marital debt. (which he might do to save on the possibility of you being awarded alimony)

 

 

Alimony might be tough. Single woman making 50k is a very "livable" income with no kids, debt free and married less than 10 years. A lot of courts look at dividing half his retirement and 401k if you were married for 10+ years, but that isn't the case here.

 

 

So, yeah....alimony might be tough. Judge would have to figure that out and stay close to what your state guidelines are.

 

 

Just my opinion, I think you're looking at a big chunk of change being awarded on Thursday, but not much else after that. I would be surprised if you were awarded a large alimony settlement with less than 10 years of marriage.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Chi townD

[Chi townD]

It's Friday now. I wonder what happened.

[Teri38]

It's Friday now. I wonder what happened.

 

 

 

Here's what happened, I was awarded $3900.00 a month and $14k in arrears and we go back in October because he's still hiding over $200k of income from his private practice.

 

He did offer me 160k cash to make this all go away but I told him where he could stick that offer.

 

I think his attorney was a bit surprised to see all of the documentation I had and he only had a summary of his government salary and a very small portion of his private practice income.

 

My attorney has now filed for discovery, so now its wait and see until October. All that said, he could have avoided all of this if he would have been amicable, I tried to be by moving into the basement but he wouldn't accept it, told me he wouldn't give me a divorce and that I needed to move out of the house so I did.

 

Anyways I was pretty happy the way things went for the most part but I'm far from being satisfied.

[Teri38]

Update, my attorney contacted me to tell me that my stbx fired his attorney Saturday and now plans to represent himself (he's not a lawyer) , his arrogance never stops!

[lollipopspot]

Just curious OP, what kind of work does your husband/ex do?

[jakrbbt]

OP, you're not ever going to be satisfied until you deal with the emotional crap he dealt you in some way other than asking to be paid for it. I hope that you do get whatever spousal support you are owed, and I hope you get the benefit of judicial discretion. That's for you and your lawyer to work on at this point.

 

But it sounds from your posts like you want to basically sue him for having wronged you. Don't get me wrong, the man sounds horrible and you did NOT deserve to be verbally abused, lied to, or any of that. However, divorce court isn't there to vindicate you for that. It's there to divide the assets according to certain guidelines, and to ensure (with alimony) that people in that state don't have to remain stuck in marriages against their will just because they can't afford to leave them. You do not get more money the worse your husband was to you.

 

I am not saying you don't deserve peace, happiness, a better future, and a fair settlement. I'm not saying you should feel at all bad about going for the most money you can get from this process. But here's the thing: All that stuff he did to you, if you want your divorce court to pay you back for all that, I fear that you will be disappointed. Worse than disappointed-- I worry that you'll fight for that until you wear yourself out, because you may have a different standard in your head than the judge can ever have when deciding the case. I mean, what was your pain worth? Any amount you could get, would seem like a pittance, an insult, in the face of what you went through. So if you think that that is what the spousal support is for, how can you avoid seething in anger no matter what the amount? Again, just listen to your attorney on what you can get and why.

 

As for getting back the peace, happiness, and time that this jerk took from you, I'd look to other ways to do that, and not only rely on the support hearings. (Not saying that you are.) Be sure to take care of yourself and your future in more ways than just this, because divorce court is not there to undo all the crap this a-hole did. You, and your friends and family and maybe counselor, are there for that. Good luck with the support hearings, again, I do hope you get the upper end of what a judge can award you.

Edited August 4, 2014 by jakrbbt

[Chi townD]

3900 a month for how long?

[Minnie09]

It really always depends on the county, yes, also on the judge, but they usually try not to deviate too much form the county-standards. Usually there's something called income equalization, and depending on the duration of the marriage, the higher earning spouse pays the lower earning spouse, so they both have about the "same" for a certain amount of time (e.g. equalization for 3 years, if you were married so and so long......some counties have a formula, like years of M divided by 3; and they ALL use it and ALL lawyers know it). That seems to be happening in OP's case also. It usually happens, if the income difference is significant and the M wasn't super super super short.......unless you're from TX - haha.

 

And since he's hiding assets and you were better prepared with documentation etc., firing his lawyer will probably backfire. The case has been filed, magistrates are involved, the discovery phase is NOT fun if you try to hide assets and they already suspect there's something hidden somewhere......accounts get frozen and yadayada. I would not worry, OP. Looking quite good for you. Looking quite bleak for him.

I know PA is no-fault.......but that's got nothing to do with it.

[RonaldS]

Again, I feel very sorry for your wife, it must have been awful for her!!

 

I'm sure it was awful for her. It's not fun when the real world hits you with some real world sh*t. Oh well.

 

But, being the lifelong expert mooch that she is, she'll be OK. She's pretty, and fortunately for her, this world is filled with idiot guys who trip over themselves to go save some poor, helpless pretty girl. So, she's already got her next husband lined up. He makes a good income, and with his income and the amount she gets in child support, she will be able to continue on through life without working and having everybody else take care of her.

 

Yes, it is truly a sad, difficult, tragic life she leads. Let us all gather around and feel sorry for her. Perhaps we can hold a candle light vigil?

[Chi townD]

I don't know if I would mark this as a win. She'll get 3900 a month for a set time. But that works out to be 46,800 annually; which is only about 10% of his annual take home if he's making 450k as she said. After he pays her, he's still clearing 400k.

 

 

Don't know what this guy is bitching about. Unless, the courts made the alimony payment indefinite or until she remarries and if that's the case, I would fire my lawyer too! Indefinite payments on a seven year marriage? Most judges would probably award 3,900 a month over the course of 3 years. If this was the case that works out to be a little over 140,000. You would have been better off taking his counter offer of 160,000 and cleared an additional 20,000.

[amaysngrace]

In my divorce I settled rather than fight out some long drawn out battle.

 

There are some things that are more important than money Teri. I know you say you're far from being satisfied but think about what would satisfy you more.

 

Is it greed or putting this behind you?

 

Only you can decide that for yourself.

[RonaldS]

I agree with the earlier poster who stated it sounds a lot lot like Terri is suing him for hurting her.

 

Terri, even though some people here might come off as a touch abrasive in their responses, the comments are really for your own good. A lot of us have already been in the place you're at, have been through those emotions and have gotten through it to the other side.

 

We know, from experience, that in the moment you may not have a clear picture in your mind. These emotions muddy the waters. We do things for reasons that are not really helpful, constructive, in our long-term best interest, etc. And that's OK...we've all been there. Sometimes when you get yourself all revved up, you put yourself on a 'search and destroy' mission. You want to 'win', and you want the other person to 'lose'. But what ends up happening is that in those moments, operating like that, we stunt our own healing and growth.

 

The money you might receive is nice, but it's not going to solve anything and it's not going to heal you. You have no children, he has money and you both have marital assets. Take what you can get without going crazy, and because it's a fair dissolution rather than because you want to stick it to him. It's a simple business deal at this point, and what makes a deal better is when you can walk with a profit and no more hassles. Straight business.

 

Sure, you might be able to get a little more, but you'll stress yourself out in the process....not to mention give half of it to a lawyer. Right now, with your income, you're sitting at $100k/yr plus half of your marital assets. Not bad. You can start a good life on that.

 

Take the money and run, as the song goes. Forget this sh*tbag and move forward. No reason to keep him in your life.

[jakrbbt]

One more thought OP: did this douche make you think that he was better and more powerful than you because he had more money? If so, then you'll have an even more frantic reason to want to win his money. But if so, then as the '90's song goes, you are "down in it." You have to wash that man right out of your brain. In five years you will not care whether he thinks he's better than you-- unless you are a very petty person. And I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not petty.

 

Go for the spousal support, but my advice would be to set a limit on how much time and attorney fees you are willing to put into this thing. Set an ideal number AND a maximum time-and-energy, and your exit point is whichever comes first. Don't turn into Captain Ahab chasing his white whale with crazy-eyes and a peg leg. Like Ronalds says, this is strictly business. Factor in how much of your sanity it is worth, and when you reach that number of court hearings or attorney fees, cut it. YOU decide that one, not your ex-husband. You've got better stuff to do and there IS life after divorce.

 

The court is not there primarily to give you personal fairness and personal justice, much as you might deserve it. It is there to ensure public order and keep the good people of whatever-state-you-are-in basically functioning as a government-enforced unit. That aim does not always match up with personal individual fairness. Public justice does not equal fairness for each individual. Judges have rules and guidelines to go by. But if you go in knowing that, then you'll know how to reach an optimal settlement without wasting your time. Good luck, and by the way, congratulations on getting out of an abusive marriage.

[ashleyjohn]

If you seek a fair judgement, I would suggest you to hire an experienced divorce lawyer. As you mentioned your husband is kind of abusive too, your lawyer will let you know your legal rights and your entitlement to his share of property. Don't be scared, your case will come through.

[Teri38]

Update, he's now offering 200K to make this go away and he's harassing my attorney with texts, emails, and phone calls, saying if he has to pay support its a death sentence for him.

 

Everything I've done has been on the advice of my attorney, I'm not greedy, I just won't allow him to low ball me. He has the 3 homes, 4 vehicles, Lexus SUV, Lexus Sports Car, Brand new Pick-up Truck, & his motorcycle w/sidecar. He emptied our bank account months ago, I was the one paying most of the house bills and he's always kept several bank accounts that I had no access to.

 

I'm having to stay with a friend and pay rent to her, I was able to get a lot of my things out of the house but I'm having to pay $350/month for 2 storage units until I'm able to find a house. My car (Value of $6500.00 ) is 8 years old and I've recently had to spend over $1100.00 on repairs. I also have credit card bills and a student loan.

 

The support money is temporary, there hasn't been a determination on the length of support because my attorney advised me to go back in October after discovery has been done.

 

Like I'm posted before, he could have been amicable and saved us both a lot of money and grief but he refused. I moved into the basement but he wouldn't leave me alone and I finally had to call the cops one night when he got really ugly, the cops made him leave the home for a few hours so I could pack a few things and leave. I got a temporary restraining order kicking him out of the home for a week so I could get most of my stuff and I haven't been back since but he claimed I was sneaking into the house and taking things and threatened to have me arrested if I came onto "His property."

[Tayken]

Here's what happened, I was awarded $3900.00 a month and $14k in arrears and we go back in October because he's still hiding over $200k of income from his private practice.

 

He did offer me 160k cash to make this all go away but I told him where he could stick that offer.

 

I think his attorney was a bit surprised to see all of the documentation I had and he only had a summary of his government salary and a very small portion of his private practice income.

 

My attorney has now filed for discovery, so now its wait and see until October. All that said, he could have avoided all of this if he would have been amicable, I tried to be by moving into the basement but he wouldn't accept it, told me he wouldn't give me a divorce and that I needed to move out of the house so I did.

 

Anyways I was pretty happy the way things went for the most part but I'm far from being satisfied.

 

 

If Pennsylvania is anything like Ontario Canada, you do have an obligation as an adult to be self sufficient. You were only married for 7yrs, and don't expect him to pay you for life.

 

Additionally, spousal support is tax deductible to the payor, and the recipient has to declare it at tax time...unlike child support.

 

So hopefully you know this and putting money aside for when you do your taxes??????

 

I hate spousal support with a passion, and find it akin to teenagers feeling entitled to everything. It bothers me when I look around and think these teenagers, are the future spousal support claimants....because their parents didn't teach them work ethics

 

I managed this week to avoid paying spousal for my 9yr marriage, as well as keeping my pension, and getting a divorce. Her only argument for spousal was that I earned twice as much as her....how is that my problem I ask?

 

I took on parts of the joint debt and asked for dismiss of spousal, and she agreed...Final order signed and Judge made her realize that she can't come back to reopen the case. Good for me to deal with a bank, than with crazy

[Tayken]

If you seek a fair judgement, I would suggest you to hire an experienced divorce lawyer. As you mentioned your husband is kind of abusive too, your lawyer will let you know your legal rights and your entitlement to his share of property. Don't be scared, your case will come through.

 

 

Lawyers are shysters, and only in it to line their own pockets by running up the retainer so fast, leading their clients on, and dragging a case that could be solved soonest into years of misery.

 

If you are well read and don't mind getting your hands dirty, self representing is the way to go. I did it and so did many others out there

Edited August 7, 2014 by Tayken

[Oberfeldwebel]

Update, my attorney contacted me to tell me that my stbx fired his attorney Saturday and now plans to represent himself (he's not a lawyer) , his arrogance never stops!

 

I find it ironic that he withheld information from his own attorney and then blamed him for the loss in court. If after discovery you can prove that he is hiding assets, this tends to really tick the judge off and will work in your favor. In some cases you can represent yourself, but yours is much more complicated and you were wise to get an experienced attorney. Don't worry about the dating sites or other stuff, the relationship is over, don't waste your time. You can always buy more houses and cars, so get as good of a settlement on the divorce that you can and live a great life.

 

 

 

A man who represents himself has a fool for a client.