Who/what created god?

[darkmoon]

i know that ppl will say it is all hooey

but apart from that...how did god come about?

 

any thoughts?

[TheFinalWord]

i know that ppl will say it is all hooey

but apart from that...how did god come about?

 

any thoughts?

 

God is

. The

.

[central]

God is

. The

.

 

Sort of like the multiverse, only not as logical or real.

 

Most likely, man created god to explain things he didn't understand.

[TheFinalWord]

Sort of like the multiverse, only not as logical or real.

 

Most likely, man created god to explain things he didn't understand.

 

Not as logical...can you substantiate your claims with a logical argument? Or are you limited to insults (the main "logical/scientific" evidence presented by the majority of atheists)...this will let me know if I'm wasting my time.

[Keenly]

Not as logical...can you substantiate your claims with a logical argument? Or are you limited to insults (the main "logical/scientific" evidence presented by the majority of atheists)...this will let me know if I'm wasting my time.

 

You can't ask some one to provide a logical argument when your own argument is a faith, and not logic, based one.

 

 

 

You think your opinion is right because your book says so, and that is not logic, its faith. There is nothing wrong with that opinion, but if you do not wish to come to the table with logic and reason, you do not get to demand dissenting opinions do the same.

 

 

I can accept your belief as your belief, and still disagree. Can you do the same ?

[pie2]

i know that ppl will say it is all hooey

but apart from that...how did god come about?

 

any thoughts?

 

My thought...I have no thought, lol. I try to think about it, and my brain hurts.

 

No, really, I don't think it's something we can fathom. But I guess that depends on your definition of God. Some people believe in "God" with limited powers. I think God is eternal, as TFW posted. Meaning, he has no beginning or end. And that's the hard part to understand!

[pureinheart]

My thought...I have no thought, lol. I try to think about it, and my brain hurts.

 

No, really, I don't think it's something we can fathom. But I guess that depends on your definition of God. Some people believe in "God" with limited powers. I think God is eternal, as TFW posted. Meaning, he has no beginning or end. And that's the hard part to understand!

 

I feel ya Pie!

[angel.eyes]

You don't specify a particular religion in asking your question, so the answer might vary depending on which theistic tradition you reference.

 

If you believe in an omnipotent, omnipresent god, then no other entity could have created him. Otherwise, by definition, he would be neither omnipotent nor omnipresent. Whoever created him would have greater power and would have existed before he did. For Christians, the following verse summarizes the answer to your question: Revelation 22:13

[TheFinalWord]

I can accept your belief as your belief, and still disagree. Can you do the same ?

 

Hi,

 

Of course I can do the same. I never insulted him. He quoted me, yes?

 

You can't ask some one to provide a logical argument when your own argument is a faith, and not logic, based one.

 

By logical argument I mean a series of premises and conclusions (philosophical arguments rely upon rules of logic).

 

You think your opinion is right because your book says so, and that is not logic, its faith. There is nothing wrong with that opinion, but if you do not wish to come to the table with logic and reason, you do not get to demand dissenting opinions do the same.

 

I don't mind dissenting opinions, I just think instead of bashing mine, he can just post his own opinion about the OP. My post can be completely ignored!

Edited July 29, 2014 by TheFinalWord

[Keenly]

Hi,

 

Of course I can do the same. I never insulted him. He quoted me, yes?

 

 

 

By logical argument I mean a series of premises and conclusions (philosophical arguments rely upon rules of logic).

 

 

 

I don't mind dissenting opinions, I just think instead of bashing mine, he can just post his own opinion about the OP. My post can be completely ignored!

 

I wouldn't say its ignored. Its just perplexin in order to exist, everything that does exist has to have a beginning, otherwise does it really exist? If something never at any point begun, does it exist?

[TheFinalWord]

I wouldn't say its ignored. Its just perplexin in order to exist, everything that does exist has to have a beginning, otherwise does it really exist? If something never at any point begun, does it exist?

 

Good points. Yes, it hurts my brain to think about.

 

Yes, that's a good question. What's interesting is that if something exists beyond space and time, it never had a beginning point given that time itself did not come into existence until the universe began.

 

It's hard to wrap one's mind around, but one way might be to consider the universe itself (as far as we can tell, or at least as some would argue) existed in the finite past. For example, most cosmologists agree the universe is about 13.7 billion years old; therefore if the universe is finite, 15 billion years ago never existed. Based on this, we can make a case for God existing timelessly and not in, for example, and infinity of years or hours.

 

One of the main philosophical, theological

(the Kalam cosmological argument) is an argument for a first mover of the universe:

 

1) Whatever begins to exist has a cause.

2) The universe began to exist.

3) Therefore, the universe has a cause.

 

The argument then proceeds that the cause has to be something immaterial that transcends space and time. Christian philosophers argue this uncaused cause has personal traits, due to another family of ontological arguments. Most monotheistic faiths go along with these sets of arguments (there's about 20). Then the branches of theism branch off and arguments for the resurrection of Jesus, etc are used to extrapolate Christian theism.

 

There are objections to these premises, but these are things that can be dissected. It will be impossible to prove, but we can look at each premises and see if there is more evidence for its negation than its affirmation and make more reasonable conclusions about the existence of God (or at least one could have more reasons to either believe or disbelieve ).

 

Anyway, good talking to you!

[Lani]

Ricky Gervais..?

[writergal]

I always thought it was James Mason.

[littleplanet]

And 13.8 billion years ago, what time was it?

(and by whose clock?)

 

Useta just love debatin' infinity when I was 10.

 

I sorta like the idea of something existing beyond our understanding.

Creates a certain sense of humity (as opposed to humiliation.)

[Yamaha]

If God Created Everything, Who Created God?

 

Hard for our finite minds to grasp but a plausible explanation.

[TheFinalWord]

And 13.8 billion years ago, what time was it?

(and by whose clock?)

 

haha good one!

 

Well, I'm no astrophysisist. I believe most of this is gauged by measuring the speed of light. If astronomers can observe the light of some distant astronomical object, they can calculate how long the light has traveled. They can also calculate the expansion rate of the universe.

 

How are the ages of the Earth and universe calculated? | BioLogos

[famethrowa]

There's a lot of talk on here about "god" but can I ask what one you're talking about? Zeus, Shango, Hanuman the Hindu monkey god etc etc. There have been thousands of gods throughout history so why we should all think the biblical god is the only one that's real is beyond me.

[Brigid]

i know that ppl will say it is all hooey

but apart from that...how did god come about?

 

any thoughts?

 

I have a theory but no proof. Here it is:

 

God is energy lurking in Dark Matter that always was trying to figure out what went wrong with the particle game.

[M30USA]

God created time. Time is a creation. This means the very concept of events preceding or following each other is a creation which does not apply to him. Now if you ask me what it looks like to stand outside time like God...I have no clue. A creature can never comprehend anything outside his created realm.

[TheFinalWord]

There's a lot of talk on here about "god" but can I ask what one you're talking about? Zeus, Shango, Hanuman the Hindu monkey god etc etc. There have been thousands of gods throughout history so why we should all think the biblical god is the only one that's real is beyond me.

 

I can't speak for OP...

 

I'm not aware of any single, deductive argument that will get you to Christian theism. The philosophical case for Christian theism requires a series of arguments. For example, the Kalam argument will at best get you to monotheism.

 

If we go with the philosophical definition of God as "the maximally greatest conceivable being" and apply this definition to the Kalam argument, we can make a case for a decreased likelihood for a variety of deities.

 

A monkey god for example, is a physical being that exists within time and space. Given the Kalam argument, the uncaused cause would have to be beyond time and space. This rules out explanations such as monkey gods, flying spaghetti monsters, etc.

 

Other deities like Zeus, Thor, etc. are part of a polytheistic set of deities. Given the classical definition of God as the maximally greatest conceivable being (you can study Descartes conception of this, and the modern conception defended by Dr. Alvin Plantiga at Notre Dame), taken within the Kalam argument for a transcendent cause of the universe, adding additional gods (multiple first movers) would be redundant.

[Allumere]

I feel a tad inadequate after reading some of these responses #shouldofpaid attentioninschool, #mypoorunderutilizedbrain.

[man_in_the_box]

Tough question... I consider god extradimensional which makes any sort of cause and effect analogies extremely difficult.

 

Come to think of it I'm starting to question my whole perspective on reality now - specifically start, end, boundaries and implications.

[Madman81]

I recently heard a schpiel by Roy Comfort, Christian minister and evangelist, in which he alleged that he could prove the existence of God without recourse to the Bible or Christian teachings. In his view, the proof of God's existence can be compared to the existence of, say, a can of Coke. The existence of the can of Coke is proof that somebody created it. The existence of, say, Michelangelo's Pietà is proof that somebody created that. Thus it follows, in his view, that the existence of the universe and everything in it is proof that somebody created it. And who is that somebody? God. Voila -- God's existence proven.

 

The rather obvious problem with this argument is that it doesn't prove the existence of God. And in particular, it only succeeds in raising a further issue: if, hypothetically, by this analogy there is now proof of God's existence, it logically follows that, because God exists, somebody created him/her. Which probably leaves recourse to the Bible, which non-Christians don't take as authoritative, as the only source of "proof", and which thus isn't proof of anything.

[man_in_the_box]

And that's why we shouldn't try to apply the second law of thermodynamics to things that are not thermodynamics.

[Robert Z]

If God Created Everything, Who Created God?

 

 

The second interpretation is that God exists in more than one dimension of time. Things that exist in one dimension of time are restricted to time's arrow and are confined to cause and effect. However, two dimensions of time form a plane of time, which has no beginning and no end and is not restricted to any single direction. A being that exists in at least two dimensions of time can travel anywhere in time and yet never had a beginning, since a plane of time has no starting point. Either interpretation leads one to the conclusion that God has no need of having been created.

 

 

Oh my... Well, we can just make up the physics as we go...