Seducing a close friend who's interested but scared

[tigerlily94]

Help! This situation has gotten beyond frustration and should be so simple, easy, + wonderful, but...arrgggghhh!!

 

So: A longtime good male friend of mine and I are temporarily living together - the last 3 weeks and likely for most of the next month, too. We've had a history of flirtation, affection, etc. but have never crossed a line past making out, cuddling, and lots of touching. I've seen him naked; he's seen me partially naked.

 

He's never had a real partnership sort of relationship of any substantial length of time; sadly, mostly on/off again flings and booty calls. This is not my style - I'm more of a serial monogamist. He claims to want this, and in many ways has referred to me jokingly as "wifey" and has said I'm one of his closest friends, period, but we ultimately have NOT crossed a major sexual line.

 

We are NOT a couple; we never have been, but it can be confusing because we treat each other sweetly and have this flirtatious streak to our friendship. We share many intimate details of our lives together, but he has always made a conscious effort to minimize or avoid talking about his hook-ups and gets uncomfortable if it comes up. I'm pretty candid + open with him, though, about my own past situations.

 

It's like we've been dating, nonexclusively, minus a more sexual relationship. I'm an attractive gal - very slim, feminine, generally good-natured + happy. He's a bit overweight, but I find him so handsome + cute, and even hot sometimes.

 

Since I moved in early this month, the first week things were fun + flirty and seemed to be tentatively heading in a more sexually adventurous direction. But then he seemed to get anxious and backpedaled. When I gently asked about this lack of playfulness lately, he suggested he liked where things were and didn't want to ruin anything, etc. These excuses have come up before, but I'm not really buying it. The more I see him by living with him, there's a lot of anxiety there around multiple issues - work, health, public appearances, etc.

 

He is a single man and free to do as he pleases - I have said this openly to him. But I have also said it's hard for me to know how to behave with him because of the mixed signals.

 

I think the occasional hook-up girls are "safe" for him; minimal emotional involvement, no real commitment, not really integrated in his life, etc. But for my part, I feel like he backpedals on taking things to a more intimate sexual level because...? He feels anxious, or threatened, or scared? I told him I would never abandon him as a friend, but said I was curious to try for more. He tends to dismiss this as "oh probably not a good idea" and "I just don't know about this right now" but also says "but my buttons are easy to push" and "I've never lived with a woman before, I guess it's kind of exciting and new for me."

 

Sexually experienced, emotionally/relationship-wise, really wet behind the ears. I haven't been overly aggressive with him sexually, but I feel like maybe it's time to try a different tactic. ;-)

 

I'd like to try and feel like I have to take the lead, but we've nothing to lose and I can be happy regardless. But he seems to dwell on all the possible things that could go wrong instead of considering that the outcome could be lovely! (and ironically anxiety-quelling)

 

Ideas? Advice? I'm feeling braver and confident and am willing to try things to show him it could be really great after all, but I am sensitive to his feelings and care about him too...

[StumpyNB]

Just take your shirt off and shove your boobs in his face. That usually works pretty well as far as seduction goes. Or hop in the shower with him while he is in there. Or jump in his bed. Its all pretty simple really.

 

Just be prepared for the possibility that it might go horribly wrong. Or incredibly right. No risk, no reward.

[ThorntonMelon]

You're crazy if you don't think things will change.

 

But there's something wrong with his wiring if you're hot and he's not jumping you. Like something is actually off in his brain.

 

The fact he can't articulate his thoughts in a conversation is quite odd as well.

 

This is an interesting one...

[Smilecharmer]

He is just not into you that way but enjoys your companionship.

[preraph]

If you were his type, you said he was a hit and run guy, so that's what would have happened when you first got together if it was ever going to. I'm sure he wouldn't mind sleeping with you but since he has no intention of committing and since you're friends, he doesn't want to do that. I've been in that situation a few times. It's usually you're just not their type. I nailed one guy down about it that I was in love with and his answer was he liked bigger boobs, but then a decade later, I found out he also had a molestation as a child that rendered him periodically impotent. He felt safe sleeping with drunk little short girls and that was about it.

[tigerlily94]

Thanks, everyone! To answer some of this...

 

When we first met a few years ago, he'd made flirty comments and after some months, he did tell me he was interested in me and I was "so pretty...I want to be a better man for you... can't you kiss me just once?" This was after a big drunk escapade and at the time I was completely smitten with someone else, and I rejected his advances, saying as much.

 

So it's not like he never took initiative to express interest in me. I was just slow to come around and as I got to know him better, I liked him more and more.

 

And here's an update...since I'd decided enough was enough, yesterday morning we'd both woken up early and I started rubbing his back (he loves this and never turns down a massage)... during which I pulled off his shorts (me: "you're all hot + sweaty") and later his boxers (him: "what are you doing? Hey!" But laughingly). Ultimately I started going down on him (we've never gone that far before) and he enjoyed it but was also in sort of disbelief...

 

He was a little anxious, saying "ahhh this isn't a good idea" but gave no specific reason... But then he hopped in the shower and gave me a big grin + a kiss when he got out. Hmmm.

 

I slept at a girl friend's place last night "to give you some space" but not sure what to expect this weekend.... NEED INPUT/IDEAS/etc.!! Not sure if I should lean back more or continue to play with him....

Edited August 1, 2014 by tigerlily94
typos galore

[Potion9]

I don't see this ending well at all.

[preraph]

The "not a good idea" says he's not wanting a relationship like that with you. It's hard for any guy to turn down a bj from any girl, so don't be surprised if he keeps accepting those but continues to date other women....Better give him a day or two to think about things and then have "the talk."

[tigerlily94]

Ok, here's an update...

 

Things haven't escalated. But things are good.

 

I haven't initiated anything since the end of last week, nor has he. We haven't brought it up, but things haven't been at all awkward between us. He is quite chatty and happy and other times quiet when he's tired, the normal stuff. A few things, though:

 

1) Saturday night, I hung out with a guy I used to see last summer - we're both well past that situation now, it was never super-serious, and we get along nicely/were friends first anyway. So we got a casual dinner that night, walked around, and ended up chatting on the front steps here. Roommate guy gets home from friend's birthday party while we're still chatting and they meet briefly. Last summer guy is younger + very very attractive. When he'd left and roommate guy + I were getting ready for bed not long after, I'd mentioned who last summer guy was - I suppose a slight dangle, but more importantly, I was hoping the hint was "See? it's possible to date people and have things be happy + all right later even if it doesn't work out."

 

2) The next morning, I get up and leave the house early but get a text: "Sorry I was so restless last night. I think I ate too much sugar during the day." I didn't really notice this, but I said it was all okay. When I got home midday, he came up to me and hugged me and said he was sorry for tossing + turning so much, again. (this is a strange action on his part) - and I said again, it was okay.

 

3) This same day, he checks the fridge + returns home from the grocery store with lots of food "so we can make real dinners for ourselves this week." I was surprised and overwhelmed, but it was nice and said I was happy to cook.

 

4) Later in the afternoon, he says he was thinking of going to a pool for a bit and would I want to join? He hasn't asked me if I've wanted to go out + hang out anywhere in quite a while. I said that'd be fun, and is there anyone else you want to join too? He dismissed that. We ended up going swimming, having a couple drinks, and then getting pizza.

 

5) Instead of curling up away from me in bed, he was way more huggy + cuddly last night. No outright kissing or anything sexual, but he was sweet + affectionate and put his arms around me.

 

I'm kind of mystified by this guy + his actions. Is this simply a "romantic friendship"? What gives? (Sigh.)

[Shepp]

It's like we've been dating, nonexclusively, minus a more sexual relationship.

 

That sounds like something I could of written a year or so back!

 

We worked it out, I'm marrying her, but I couldn't really tell you how exactly - I guess if I tried to channel the general theme of the advice I got it was kinda don't run yourself into the ground trying for it.. And that your probably best just to be totally upfront.

 

I think like it can be really hard situation to be in if your invested, so I guess like you have to be really sure it's worth the effort and agro..

 

....a guy who's into casual relationships isn't gonna turn down a bj from a decent looking girl he gets on with though, so I wouldn't read too much into that - that was the only way that situation was ever gonna play out.

 

Right now your probably heading for fwb..

[Standard-Fare]

Did you ever explain why you guys are living together right now? I know you said it was temporary, and that seems like a good thing.

 

But I'm also getting the impression you guys are sleeping in THE SAME BED? If I'm right, why on earth is that the case?

 

This situation you have right now is confusing and could get messy. First things first, one of you needs to move out and get your own place. After that maybe you can start trying for a more normal "dating" scenario, rather than trying to dive headfirst into a live-in relationship.

[jammy]

he is so lucky guy yaah

[Polak]

There are so many factors in this scenario that are opposite to what you'd expect that I have no idea how to even begin to formulate advice... From everything I have read though, I don't think this halfway-relationship can exist for much longer. Either it will eventually fizzle out, or become a fully mutual thing. Which one, I don't know. But you will probably have to communicate your intentions more specifically sooner or later.

[Molly01]

This guy seems confusing and I bet that how his thoughts are now. I guess he wants this relationship to go ahead on one side and on the other side he is not sure how it would end up. and I am sorry to be saying this, but I guess this is not going to end up in a 'happily ever after' manner.

[kajla00007]

you should show your some part of your body to your partner and after some time he will propose you to make love.

[ThorntonMelon]

Why can't you and your "close friend" discuss this?

[tigerlily94]

Thanks, everyone! I think this really summed it up...

 

There are so many factors in this scenario that are opposite to what you'd expect that I have no idea how to even begin to formulate advice... From everything I have read though, I don't think this halfway-relationship can exist for much longer. Either it will eventually fizzle out, or become a fully mutual thing. Which one, I don't know. But you will probably have to communicate your intentions more specifically sooner or later.

 

And:

 

"This guy seems confusing and I bet that how his thoughts are now. I guess he wants this relationship to go ahead on one side and on the other side he is not sure how it would end up."

 

It took me so long to figure this out, but I think I have... would love to hear y'all's take on this:

 

I think the key is that while we've slept together (shared a bed), we've never actually had sex. When push comes to shove, he won't cross that line. And that is an exception to the rule for him from what I understand with other women...and so I asked myself what did they all have in common that I did not? They were all really different physically - most were overweight, though, but not all; they weren't all super attractive or unattractive; not necessarily older or younger; knew each other for varying lengths of time...so what was it?

 

- His local old hook-up got into a relationship at the beginning of the year. He only found out through Facebook. There was one final flirty text that she never returned. And that was that.

- One of his flingy friends lives thousands of miles away on the West Coast. They see each other once a year, once every other year, maybe. Most of their communication is sexting and small talk.

- Another ex lives 1500 miles away in another city. They see each other about every two years. She's nearing 40. They communicate occasionally but fondly.

- His recent local hook-up seemed to happen only after the other one became less available. And he keeps this one at a distance (she previously would nag him to hang out more).

 

...and that was how I began to understand everything better. I'm quite certain that none of them know of each other. I feel reasonably certain that all of them escalated to sexual intimacy more quickly than developing any kind of deeper feeling. None of them have more than a small handful of friends in common with him, either. Most don't live here or even close by. There is no imminent, serious chance of any meaningful, ongoing relationship/connection with any of them. So they are all safe, secret outlets, in a sense.

 

For him + me: We were friends for a long time before anything physical happened between us ever, and if anything, being a friend was like the back door to intimacy with someone like him. We have multiple social circles that are common to us (family, friends, professional network through graduate school) and more depth to our history in terms of shared experiences with these people in our lives. I realize that if he keeps me at bay physically/sexually, it's his way of putting distance between us. It was like as soon as things seemed to start to work out or turn into something, it made him anxious and fearful and uncertain. So I have made zero moves on him (beyond holding his hand, or more innocent small gestures like that) over the last almost month now.

 

...the conclusion? I think I'm dealing with someone with some serious blocks. Specifically, intimacy phobia (and some degree of commitment phobia too) - but the patterns are really scary and hard to ignore at this point. Once I read more about these issues a lot of things made more sense. I haven't confronted him about it, though. "Confront" is such an ugly word, and has a negative connotation - but I have decided that it would be wise to write him a letter as that could be digested better.

 

I am moving out within the next couple weeks, which is good for this situation now. And I am drafting this letter soon. Essentially, this behavior is a pattern with us - and in other facets of his life - and he is dear to me. I've realized he's not capable of having a committed romantic relationship with anyone without getting therapy. I think there are a lot of things about himself he does not realize and does not understand why he does what he does or reacts certain ways. I think it's time for that to stop, because it's certainly left me feeling confused and hurt - and other people who begin to get involved with him, too.

 

So...here's to being helpful, somehow, and staying a gentle presence + putting our friendship above all else. I think things can change for the better, but it will take some time + patience.

[preraph]

You may be right that he has intimacy problems, but you must acknowledge that it may or may not be clinical and that he might just not WANT to be intimate at this stage and just wants as many hookups as possible. One thing I can tell you for sure is that you're spending way more time thinking about it than he is, so it's good you're moving out.

[tigerlily94]

I've HAD to think more about it because I've WANTED to figure it out! So yes. And I feel loads better, and our friendship has improved as a result - the day-to-day relating, at least.

 

The hook-ups happen only a handful of times a year at best. He's free to do as he pleases and I've said as much. But it never goes anywhere nor do I think he actually wants it to - they are safe outlets, escapes. Same goes for porn, etc.

 

He was drunk last weekend and opened up about a lot of things that have been bothering him (personal family things) and said a TON. Lots about his parents' divorce and his father's subsequent relationships, and the woman who was his companion when he passed away suddenly last winter...and then he apologized for talking about it all!

 

But it's stuff like that, that people really NEED to talk about to someone if they feel so stressed, anxious, and stuck. People you trust, friends, etc. are well and good and are supportive - and this is what I've decided to go with doing (and am moving out this week)... but I feel like the time has come for him to sit down and really consider seeing a professional therapist about his own troubles developing close bonds with others, sure, but also a lot of these other, heavy problems that he has admitted he thinks about but doesn't know to solve them. (Hence avoiding them or procrastinates dealing with them).

 

Moving this weekend but will still be living in the same neighborhood. Going to do my best to be supportive and encourage him that enough is enough - and there's zero shame in getting help (or looking into it) when there is a possibility that it can change one's life for the better. Thanks, you guys.

[Polak]

Glad you figured it out. You're on the right track, moving out and all. Good luck.