Divorcing the deadbeat

[jakrbbt]

Another thread, to gather my courage-- this site is really helping.

 

Those of you who have divorced a person who did not help out with income, chores, budget, administrative stuff et c, . . . is it any harder after divorce? Or is it better? Just as hard but different?

 

I am angry. I need to vent a little. I am embarrassed and resentful that I married someone so obstructive. I got myself into a mess. My husband does watch our toddler while I'm at work, and that's all he does. No emotional or financial support or help with anything else.

 

And when H watches our son, he's sweet to him but quite lazy about it-- e.g., won't feed him any food that takes preparation or makes a mess, EVER, won't do anything relating to his care except basically babysit him, won't watch him at all when I'm not at work, won't let him play with anything that might make a mess, at all, ever. There is a difference between parenting and babysitting. He babysits, then IMMEDIATELY bolts when I get home and all weekend.

 

He does no chores. None at all-- no grocery shopping, administrative stuff, dishes or laundry et c et c. I have to drag our son around with me to various stores. H says he can't do anything because he has our son, but that makes no sense because then I end up doing all those same things while I have our son-- it's not like I can do the laundry while I'm at work. And he goes on and on and on, to anyone who will listen, about how much work he does watching our son and how hard it is. Yes, it is both meaningful and difficult to watch a toddler. But I do it at least as much as he does (actually more, both hours-wise and in terms of parenting-type tasks). And my mother, who had seven children and full-time parented us, is not impressed by his martyr comments.

 

There are many more problems, interpersonal ones, but this is what has me angry tonight. It's like having a teenager-- I'll nag him for three days to spend three minutes unloading a dishwasher. It's easier to do it myself. He is incredibly sweet to me just before asking me to give him money for something he wants, the rest of the time he is surly or ignores me. Yet I leap at the chance to be friendly with him and I always give him the things he wants, so I can have a bit of affection.

 

How dismaying to be married to basically a teenager, (he's 41), after I spent many years being so choosy and befriending and seriously dating a number of active, mature, considerate men.

 

I have to get my head out of this pity-party and just leave. It is hard to do. I desperately want him to know that he is in the wrong, and to apologize. How dumb is that? Yet I want it so badly, I keep doing stupid things based on that desire, such as dropping hints to him and dragging myself to counseling sessions that have not worked for years, just to try to get him to help out a bit even though I know I would like a divorce in the end. I just want him to say that it isn't my job to do all the chores even though I am the only breadwinner just because I am a woman.

 

If I just divorce him, he'll probably have to get a job, but it's hard to imagine. (And no, I won't be ordered to pay enough alimony to support him, even if we were married long enough for that which we aren't, I don't make enough money. I've seen a lawyer a few times and gotten solid information on all that.)

 

He told me tonight quite proudly that he once, long before we were married, turned down a very well-paying job (he's never had one) just because he thought he'd find it unfulfilling. The problem with that attitude is, he did not turn it down for a fulfilling job. He turned it down for no job. Apparently he thinks that unemployment is more fulfilling. He believes himself to be above any kind of work that isn't "meaningful" to him, yet, unlike me, he has not been willing to work hard in school and/or do the bottom-rung jobs to get toward the top. He envies me for having my job. I worked hard in college, worked four jobs during college, worked damn hard in law school and afterward. I want him to stop taking me for granted and either help out, or go see someone about why he can't pull his weight. I gotta let that go.

 

If I divorce him, the only thing I'll have to do that I don't have to do now is get my son ready for day care and drop him off there before work and all the things that come with dealing with day care in general. (I have one pretty much picked out, very nearby.) I know my husband will want to have him a lot of the time, but I'm not sure what times we'd work out, because I have no idea what his work schedule would be or even if he'd work in town. I'd be a single mother, but I pretty much am now.

 

Am I deluded? Is it actually a whole lot harder to be a divorced mother than to be married to an inactive noncontributing spouse? I know that single mothers have a harsh transition, but I gather that a lot of that is due to losing financial support and having to go back to work. I've always gotten by on my own paycheck.

 

And then there is that whole matter of having some hope for a better future.

Edited August 3, 2014 by jakrbbt

[Tbisb74]

Actions speak louder than words. Like Nike, "Just do it".

[oldshirt]

 

I am angry. I need to vent a little. I am embarrassed and resentful that I married someone so obstructive. I got myself into a mess. My husband does watch our toddler while I'm at work, and that's all he does. No emotional or financial support or help with anything else.

 

Have you actually informed your husband of how angry, resentful and deeply dissatisfied you are with his performance? Have you informed him of your plans to divorce and your discussions with divorce attorney? Does he know the true depths of your dissatisfaction and your plans of departure if he does not improve?

The reason I ask is mothers make hundreds of complaints a day about how tough life is and how much they need help and how messy the house is and how many diapers are in the trash blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.....

After about the second day it just becomes background noise and part of daily routine.

Men have a hard time filtering out people just bitching and venting, and actually hearing the true greivences that people have that are actually making them miserable.

This is why many men claim to be blindsided when their wives leave and want to know "why?" and the wives say they have been telling them for years but they don't do anything about it.

 

 

 

 

And when H watches our son, he's sweet to him but quite lazy about it-- e.g., won't feed him any food that takes preparation or makes a mess, EVER, won't do anything relating to his care except basically babysit him, won't watch him at all when I'm not at work, won't let him play with anyth that might make a mess, at all, ever. There is a difference between parenting and babysitting. He babysits, then IMMEDIATELY bolts when I get home and all weekend.

 

Another common complaint between couples in regards to domestic chores and childrearing. women ride men to do more with the kids and around the house, but then bitch about how they do it and how it's never right and its never good enough blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.......

 

If you are expecting him to be another mother, you are going to be sorely disappointed each and every time.

 

As long as he is not neglecting or endangering the child or putting him at risk for improper nutrition, he just needs more standards and objectives for meals and activities during the day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

He does no chores. None at all-- no grocery shopping, administrative stuff, dishes or laundry et c et c. I have to drag our son around with me to various stores. H says he can't do anything because he has our son,

 

 

you just plain have to call him out on this one and tell him tough$hit and to man-up and get'r done. It doesn't have to be easy and it doesn't have to be pretty. You just need to the get the $hit done.

 

 

There are many more problems, interpersonal ones, but this is what has me angry tonight. It's like having a teenager-- I'll nag him for three days to spend three minutes unloading a dishwasher. It's easier to do it myself. He is incredibly sweet to me just before asking me to give him money for something he wants, the rest of the time he is surly or ignores me. Yet I leap at the chance to be friendly with him and I always give him the things he wants, so I can have a bit of affection.

 

Once he hasn't had HIS affection for six months he'll start wondering what's up.

The bottom is getting ready to fall out on your attraction and desire and your need of affection from him and your resentment and bitterness is going to cut off his supply of affection, romance and sexuality. Once he's gone without for several months, that's when you'll get his attention and may bring him to the bargaining table to fully address the issues.

At this point he'll be bitter and resentful and it will likely require professional counseling to address.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How dismaying to be married to basically a teenager, (he's 41), after I spent many years being so choosy and befriending and seriously dating a number of active, mature, considerate men.

 

 

other men always start looking good when you are pi$$ed at the one you have.

 

I have to get my head out of this pity-party and just leave.

 

 

Or get your head out of this pity party and make a sincere effort to address the issues and not just complain about them.

Now before you get pissed at me, please understand I'm on your side and know where you are coming from. My point here is that he is not hearing your and not fully grasping your issues. All he is hearing is a mother of a young child making a hundred complaints and gripes a day as background noise. all mothers gripe and complain all day, we've heard mothers gripe and complain every day of our lives since we learned to understand words.

The real challenge in all of this is to get his attention and get him to understand the depths of your dissatisfaction.

In a nutshell you are going to have to blow something up and leave some scorched-Earth behind you to get him to take it seriously.

 

 

 

 

I desperately want him to know that he is in the wrong, and to apologize. How dumb is that? Yet I want it so badly, I keep doing stupid things based on that desire, such as dropping hints to him and dragging myself to counseling sessions that have not worked for years, just to try to get him to help out a bit even though I know I would like a divorce in the end. I just want him to say that it isn't my job to do all the chores even though I am the only breadwinner just because I am a woman.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you want to live a healthy, happy life or do you want to be "right?"

 

 

I have apologized for many things I have done wrong over the years but I have never once apologized for being me. If you are holding on to an apology for him being him, you are in for a long long wait.

 

 

You have a realistic and legitimate expectation for him to be an involved, active husband and father who steps up to the plate to manage a home and raise a child with you as a life partner. That's legit. You have the right to demand more output from him for that.

 

 

But to want an apology from him for not being you, is insane.

 

 

 

If I just divorce him, he'll probably have to get a job, but it's hard to imagine.

 

 

Most women wouldn't have considered marrying and having a child with a man without a job in the first place. I'd say you've been pretty accommodating there.

If he has to get a job to put food in his belly after a divorce, oh well too bad, so sad. My heart is bleeding for the poor little fella.

 

 

 

He told me tonight quite proudly that he once, long before we were married, turned down a very well-paying job (he's never had one) just because he thought he'd find it unfulfilling.

 

 

And yet, you thought he'd be good husband and father material.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I divorce him, the only thing I'll have to do that I don't have to do now is get my son ready for day care and drop him off there before work and all the things that come with dealing with day care in general.

 

 

You can do it.

 

 

I'd be a single mother, but I pretty much am now.

 

 

Yeah, you really are in many ways.

 

 

Am I deluded? Is it actually a whole lot harder to be a divorced mother than to be married to an inactive noncontributing spouse? I know that single mothers have a harsh transition, but I gather that a lot of that is due to losing financial support and having to go back to work. I've always gotten by on my own paycheck.

 

 

 

 

I think much of the stigma and bad publicity of single parenthood stems from traditionally when there is a divorce there is a lot of anger, passion, betrayal and two parents that are vindictive and trying to bash each other etc and in our parents and grandparents era there were a lot of single mothers that were not educated or had job skills who were suddenly thrust out into the world without means of supporting themselves and who had exhusbands that were paying lawyers thousands and tens of thousands of dollars to make sure that the wives didn't get any money from them.

In your case however I don't see that as being much issue. nothing you have said has indicated your STBX is abusive or neglectful or a bad parent or a bad person, just not as supportive as you would like.

Is there any reason to believe that he would not be cooperative coparent???? Any reason to believe he would raise a stink with anything?

He may even enjoy not having to mess with a kid for a few days a week and not have to listen to you bitching all the time. He may hand you a fair settlement on a silver platter.

However as in the court's eyes he is very darn close to being the primary parent, you would need to be prepared for the court awarding him at least shared custody. If he is so motivated to do so and if he has a good lawyer, he would even have a shot at primary custody.

Would you be ok with having your child 50% of the time?

 

 

 

 

And then there is that whole matter of having some hope for a better future

 

 

If you are feeling there is no hope now, then yes even if you wake up 3-4 days a week alone in a little apartment all by yourself because your child is with him that day, you will feel hope because today might be the day that changes everything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some thoughts in bold above.

 

 

I am kind of all over the place in my responses but let me sum things up in a few bullet points -

 

 

- I understand you are deeply dissatisfied and I think you have legitimate reason to be so.

 

 

- the catch is your husband doesn't understand the depths of your dissatisfaction and all he is hearing is a thousand complaints a day and none of them are really getting through.

 

 

- you are going to have to do something major to get his attention and get him to address the situation seriously. This would have to be something like not talking to him or touching him for several months to a year, having an affair, kicking him out until he gets a job, packing up the child and leaving, handing him divorce papers.

 

 

Those are about the only things that will bring him to the negotiating table at this time.

 

 

- The primary leverage you will have is it will cost him more and it will change his lifestyle more to be a single parent than it will cost you. You will have a pretty easy transition to single parenthood. (I am assuming at this point that he does love the child and does wish to continue the father/child relationship. He may be a total deadbeat and gladly sign the divorce papers and walk away and wash his hands of both of you)

[M30USA]

I'm always skeptical when a woman says, "He NEVER...[fill in blank]." Usually this is an exaggeration which reflects more on her unmet EXPECTATIONS than his actual "deadbeat" behavior. Sounds like he might not be the worlds greatest dad but to say he is a deadbeat...I don't see enough evidence yet.

[Yasuandio]

Some people, like USA, haven't seen all the threads.

 

What I see here is a transition from the "denial stage" to the "anger stage." and too, when you are trying to seek a modicum of affection via extension of funds, that might be considered some "bargaining" on your part. All of these are natual phases one goes through on the death of a relationship.

 

This guy is always looking at the doorknob, hon. There is a reason for that - he is motivated to turn it and walk out. The question is, where does he go every night, while you tend the baby, and fall asleep in a separate bedroom? This is a portion of the "denial" you have not faced yet. You can, if you want to, begin to focus on the REAL problematic issues, rather than displacing the bulk of your concerns and anger onto peripheral matter, such as these you've listed: unloading dishwashers, baby playing style (messy VS non-messy), laundry, grocery shopping, analysis of husband's unemployment history (that you have accepted), etc.

 

Let's say all the chores were done perfectly. Would you happy in that case?

 

Probably not.

 

Here's newest suggestion from Yas:

 

1. Forget what you want and seek only what you need.

2. Make one trip to store and purchase 100 jars of baby food, diapers, wipes, whatever is needed for you. Hide them in the back of you personal bedroom closet.

3. Put a lock on that door.

4. Get a mini fridge for your room, if necessary - and stock it with stuff you like. Energy bars, dried fruit, nuts, thinks you can store (all in the one trip to store - a month or more's worth).

5. No more extra money for him. Cut the allowance to $20 bucks a week or less. That's it. His sweetness ain't worth it.

Tell him the bills are too high, and you are paying double for take-out food, can't afford, sorry about that.

6. Time for day carecare. Locate a good sitter - Mom has some evening work events she may have to attend.

7. Put attorney on a credit card. You pay it when the big bucks start rolling in.

8. Sign up for some easy on-line course to put off student loans, that will better you credentials. Worry about the loans later, when you dissapear the "Hobby-Lobby Ball & Chain."

 

Covertly set up another modest household elsewhere that you can afford near work.

 

SAY NOTHING. Be Cheerful.

 

Whenever a doubt enters your mind, replace that thought with the iPad and Alimony issue he saw an attorney about, then pinch yourself.

 

OK. Done and done. Have a nice day. Yas

[jakrbbt]

Yeah, should've been more clear that I was highlighting only one set of concerns in this thread. H is emotionally abusive-- two ICs have told me so. He is extremely controlling. He lies to me about where he takes our son, gives me days or weeks of silent treatment if I use the wrong rag to wipe the countertop or don't liine the shoes up correctly et c. He sleeps 12-14 hours a day.

 

USA, I gather that I am not the same as your ex. I was trained as a lawyer to choose my words with precision-- when I say "ever," I mean it for a reason. Here, the reason is that he has stated as much-- he won't allow baby to do or eat anything that might be messy and I have literally not known him to cook for our son one time. He still feeds him baby food (kid is 16 months). He has even asked me not to feed him rice bc even though I'm the one who cleans it seconds after dinner, and h is not even home, he doesn't like the idea of rice on the floor for a few minutes.

 

He lies to his family and uses them to manipulate and keep me in line. They call me, offended at things they think I said or did. He photographs tiny spills or crumbs I make (and I am not messy) and texts them to his family. He has refused to sleep in the same room for 2 years.

 

I've laid it on the table in counseling, but the counselor tells us that we cannot constructively discuss the issues because of the pattern of defensiveness-- H says he won't talk about any of that because we don't "have the tools" and so he does not want to hear about it. Yes, I've told him that i need him to come up with a plan for when he wants to try to go back to work. I've mentioned divorce. Used to be I was crazily clinging to the idea that we could work it out. I had to give up that one.

 

Some of my other posts lay it out more.

[Tbisb74]

And you really don't need any more posts now, other than the one that reads, "Well, I have finally used my hard-earned legal knowledge and put it to good use. The papers are filed, the wheels are in motion, his backside is history".

I do so look forward to that one!!

[2sunny]

Just do it.

 

When you let go of what drags you down - it will get easier.

[daisydook]

I would personally file for divorce, given the information provided here.

[oldshirt]

OK I have not read all 57 of your posts but I have gone through some of your back-story and read a number of the threads you have started and feel I am a little more up to speed on your story and so I need to make a few changes in my responses.

 

 

any chance your H is just simply a male gold digger? Maybe not in the classic sense that he gets you to buy him clothes and jewelry so he can sit out by the pool in a bikini and look pretty while you toil at the office, but more in a nuts and bolts sense of that he is kind a slacker and a man-boy that just uses his wavy hair and charming smile and demeanor to charm you into marrying him and supporting his lifestyle of living in someone else's house off of their dime??

 

 

The real kicker here is even if he was a classic gold digger in a bikini by the pool, he would at least be expected to put out and take care of business in the bedroom on demand. ....and you've let him sleep in the spare bedroom for two years.

 

 

If you were a male attorney supporting a gold digging female that was just living off your dime and wasn't even putting in the effort to smoke his pole now and then, I would have no choice but to advise kicking her to the curb.

 

 

In an effort to not be sexist, I must advise the same here.

 

 

IMHO you are basically being used here. He just knocked you up and is taking care of your child to seal deal and keep his gravy train.

[oldshirt]

and a few other points in no particular order -

 

 

- his heart ain't a gonna be broken when he gets the divorce papers - he's just going to be concerned about the roof over his head and the food in his belly.

 

 

Those are really his concerns and not yours. he'll have his own attorney to address those issues and work those things out.

 

 

He has to be equally unhappy and frustrated with the situation and will likely be willing to negotiate a settlement that doesn't leave him in a cardboard box under a bridge trying to feed a toddler.

 

 

Approach it from the standpoint of both people coparenting cooperatively and no one being forced into poverty and he will likely be very cooperative and willing to work with you.

 

 

- Have you done due diligence in actually investigating the possibility of him getting some poontang outside the marriage??? It's really less normal for a man to be living a celibate life in the spare bedroom voluntarily than it is for a woman. I think if you were to find out he was getting some of those needs met outside while you were being deprived, it would make you a whole lot more willing to pull the ejection handle.

 

 

at least make a sincere effort to investigate his where abouts and know where you really stand in his heart.

 

 

- I agree with the those that say that divorce is always a bit painful while you are in the middle of it and may sting for a while in the immediate aftermath but within a matter of months of getting out from under this you will feel like a great weight has been lifted off of you and you will enjoy the post-divorce life much more than what you are enduring now.

 

 

- You may or may not find true happiness and true love after divorce but you stand a very reasonable and realistic chance of doing so. however you are guaranteed continued suffering indefinitely forever if you don't.

 

 

- You have no respect or admiration or desire for this man any more. The only way for you to have those things for him is if he were to transform into someone else that possess the traits and characteristics you want in a husband and father. Unless you are developing the first prototype of the Bionic Human Transformation Modulator in your basement laboratory, that ain't gonna happen. You have to find a man that already has those traits and characteristics within himself if you want a man with those.

 

 

 

 

 

 

- each day that you procrastinate in moving on, is one day fewer that you will have of your new post-divorce life.

[jakrbbt]

OK, my excuses for staying married are quickly eroding. Used to be "Maybe we can work it out" and "But I feel so bad for him."

 

Now my last three excuses are: 1) I don't trust him enough to go through a divorce with him (patently stupid reason to stay married to him, right?)

 

2) I want closure and validation and an apology from him (ok, waaah. Oldshirt you are right that that one is crazy.)

 

3) I fear losing even more control over what he does/ does not do regarding our son-- he is basically a babysitter and I want our son to have two parents. (That is a hard one for me. But as of now, having any influence over husband's parenting isn't going to happen, any more than it would happen after divorce. And taking control over MY parenting, with this control-freak around-- that's a constant tug-of-war. )

 

Fortunately in my state, courts do not just grant full custody to whatever parent is seen as primary. Especially not after such a short time with such a young child. There are statutes and legal guidelines telling the judge what to look for, and I have excellent reason to expect joint custody with close to 50% parenting. Joint custody is ok with me. The thing is, even though I don't love how h parents, my son and he have a right to each other. This is the guy i had a kid with, and he's not abusive to our son nor does he put him in any physical danger. Who am I to stifle their relationship just because I'd have picked a more optimal parent? I've seen what happens to many boys who grow up without daddy. I'd rather my son have both parents, albeit separately.

 

Someone here said, FILE, and take what happens next step by step as it comes up. That is the opposite of how I am, and it is probably excellent advice. I am predicting in circles.

[jakrbbt]

 

 

 

He has to be equally unhappy and frustrated with the situation and will likely be willing to negotiate a settlement that doesn't leave him in a cardboard box under a bridge trying to feed a toddler.

 

 

Approach it from the standpoint of both people coparenting cooperatively and no one being forced into poverty and he will likely be very cooperative and willing to work with you.

 

 

 

 

Very astute, and not something I'd remembered to consider while in the fog of catastrophe and distrust. Though I have so little money left over at the end of each month, and now student loan payments have tripled as of this month-- I don't know what settlement we could possibly reach besides me letting him live here while he gets on his feet. But we can let the mediators and attorneys think up creative solutions too-- I don't want him living in poverty or losing his coparent position.

[jakrbbt]

 

- Have you done due diligence in actually investigating the possibility of him getting some poontang outside the marriage??? It's really less normal for a man to be living a celibate life in the spare bedroom voluntarily than it is for a woman. I think if you were to find out he was getting some of those needs met outside while you were being deprived, it would make you a whole lot more willing to pull the ejection handle.

 

 

at least make a sincere effort to investigate his where abouts and know where you really stand in his heart.

 

 

This is a strange one for us. H is basically having an emotional affair with his sister, sneaking off to see her while lying to me about it for some bizarre reason, texting ALL day and evening every day, inviting her to go sailing or dinners without inviting me, et c. I don't know even what to do with that one, so I basically leave it alone at this point. He used to invite her on our dates without asking me (Ew), he'd invite her to sleepovers with me when he LIVED with her and i was 2 hours away (Ewwww-- I said no and they both got mad), he sits with her and both ignore me rudely during any family gathering. Awkward, and imo, worse than an affair.

 

But is there also another woman? I kind of hope so. He was madly into me for years, and very early on. He saw me as out of his league. He tells me he loves me and that he has from day one. He sure does not act like it. But I worry all the same that he will be heartbroken. He is staunchly, judgmentally, against infidelity.

 

But I guess some ppl who judge affairs pretty harshly, still have them.

[Tbisb74]

I have a very broad circle of friends in the legal sector. It's odd, but I can pigeon-hole them, relatively accurately, according to gender. The men are huge egos on legs. Lovely people, very knowledgeable, charming - but massive entitlement egos, all the same.The women can be sub-divided into two groups, described as either Class 1 Level 'A' bitches, quite ruthless, unforgiving and occasionally wrong or inaccurate in their legal advice, whereupon they develop and instant loathing for whomsoever has shown their ignorance up - or extremely insecure about their own scenarios, all the while being cool, calm and collected on behalf of those of others. Perfect firm grip on the reality of their clients - virtually faultless legal advice. But when it comes to implementing good, sound, solid action for their own matters, they are on wobbly uncertain ground.

You strike me as being in that category. So just take a step back, pretend you're your own client - and advise her. And I have to ask - how did a successful, articulate, intelligent and obviously well-educated woman like you, end up with, and continue staying with a man of this calibre?

[Yasuandio]

This is a strange one for us. H is basically having an emotional affair with his sister, sneaking off to see her while lying to me about it for some bizarre reason, texting ALL day and evening every day, inviting her to go sailing or dinners without inviting me, et c. I don't know even what to do with that one, so I basically leave it alone at this point. He used to invite her on our dates without asking me (Ew), he'd invite her to sleepovers with me when he LIVED with her and i was 2 hours away (Ewwww-- I said no and they both got mad), he sits with her and both ignore me rudely during any family gathering. Awkward, and imo, worse than an affair.

 

But is there also another woman? I kind of hope so. He was madly into me for years, and very early on. He saw me as out of his league. He tells me he loves me and that he has from day one. He sure does not act like it. But I worry all the same that he will be heartbroken. He is staunchly, judgmentally, against infidelity.

 

But I guess some ppl who judge affairs pretty harshly, still have them.

 

Issue 1. What's Going On? (Need Proof - Bolster Case - Duh?)

 

Capturing the Bizarre. This guy has something going on when he reaches for the door knob every evening. Based on his bizarre personality and characteristics - it could be extremely weird. That information could turn custody in your favor. You'd be a fool not to look into it. I bet you find out something freaky-deaky. You need to know for the baby's sake. Put it on a charge card - you must have credit somewhere. A parent, a sister, a brother. The stake-out will not cost that much - his habits are predictable. And of course, like I said before, a nanny cam, and three VARs (one in the car).

 

Investigator. Get advice for PI from a friend outside firm - and use friend for discount. Don't follow him yourself. It will be worth every penny. You're an attorney - you'll make this money up in the future.

 

Your Own Data Collection. Your own data collection may be the very thing that convinces you to get the private investigator. The Nanny Cam is cheap on eBay. VARs cheap at Walmart. You will kick yourself if you blow this opportunity. After the divorce starts or you separate - then you cannot collect evidence - it is too late.

 

Tape You Convos. When you are trying to reason with this guy, you should be recording that too. Let it sound natural, and reasonable. No pizza crap. Stuff about his progress finding a job.

 

Issue 2. Student Loans (No Problem)

 

(a) Volunteering. As for the student loans - get them deferred - that can be done a number of ways. You might offer some legal volunteering for your city on the weekend. Schedule some sort of lecture service or out-of -country legal aid program during you vacation time. Offer perhaps pro-bono work for your Firm or the Bar Association - a feather in your cap. too.

 

(b) Go Back to School On-Line. Take as few easy courses as possible to get the loans deferred. Or, better still, begin a new degree program thru on-line courses to get out of loans. Something related to your field.

 

© Get a Doctorate - For Real. You can come up with a wonderful doctoral thesis idea, get a Ph.D. That can happen tuition free! The professor want people like you very badly in their graduate programs.

 

Teach a simple course or 2 so the Big Professors can put their feet up on their desk (I know all about this, I was a professor). Big deal. Since you have a Juris Doctorate and a real job - you'd be highly respected in a doctoral program, for sure. Big Time Credentials! Plus deferred payment on loans! Haha! You can even have your Graduate Students help you on you work from the office. The students would be honored - class project! In that position - you would have it made in the shade, hon.

 

Take a student on Independent Study - and have them do your research for your job, and your cases, done! Teach evening courses the nights husband has baby. You work evenings anyway. You can even have graduate classes at you home (things are informal at the Uni these days). Couple two-three years, you will be smarter, and a much more valuable asset to the firm and your field. Easy breezy.

 

How does look: Jakbbt, J.D, Ph.D.

 

That is ideas just off the top of my head. I haven't even popped the cork yet. You are young, you can pull this off. If you wait much longer, you won't have the energy - that what happens. You got to get these degrees done while you're in your 30's.

 

Issue 3. Getting Your Own Place

 

I'm introducing this issue. After the data collection has been satisfied, I think you should have your own place ready and waiting. Then, get the heck out of there. This is my reasoning. Your own places will establish the amount of time you spend with the child. Call it a "trial separation." Whatever. Or - start the divorce and get him out of there if possible. I don't think he will leave. I don't you can make him leave. I bet he knows that too.

 

Endnote.

 

Maybe you find something on him, sadly. I bet anything that will be easy - and what you find could "take the cake." You never know, some people end up required to have supervised visitations for various reasons. Many times, people, (me included), are completely stunned of what they learn of their spouse's secret life that was happening right under their nose, post divorce.

 

Yas

[trippi1432]

Hmmmm Yas...ya got me thinking about getting my Phd....how does Trippi1432, M.S., Ph.D. sound?

[trippi1432]

Jakbbt - first off, you are in the beginning stages of what 15 years looked like for me and if I had to do over again, things would have certainly been different.

 

You have stated that you had a several years long relationship before becoming pregnant and your child is a year old...what is the actual timeline of the relationship and what is the background?

 

Obviously you are very educated so I won't stigmatize your profession by putting you in one bucket or the other for women in your profession....we all know that male lawyers just are after money or legs...are they not?? :lmao:

 

I have said this before on LS...and not a thump...but it's a lot to go chasing many threads and posts to really understand the "Big Picture" so many coming here don't always get the best advice under those circumstances.

 

My theory on starting thread after thread is that you are being reactionary...when you settle on not controlling what you can't control....you will settle on one thread and deal with the true issue.

[oldshirt]

You strike me as being in that category. So just take a step back, pretend you're your own client - and advise her. And I have to ask - how did a successful, articulate, intelligent and obviously well-educated woman like you, end up with, and continue staying with a man of this calibre?

 

Interesting concept....but also one certain to fail.

 

 

The OP should not be her own attorney, nor should she counsel herself. She should get a good divorce lawyer and follow his/her counsel in legal matters.

 

 

I don't care if someone is the best damn attorney on the face of the planet, when it is your own marriage, your own spouse, your own child and your own divorce, they are going to be smithering bowl of jelly at various times.

 

 

I would in the medical field and when a doctor is sick, they need to put their medical books away and go see a doctor. Layers need to do the same thing with their own divorces.

 

 

And FWIW, the OP isn't really struggling with any legal issues here. She has a good grasp on that. It's the human issues she's struggling with just like any other woman, wife and mother.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.....And yeah, I agree, what did she ever see in him in the first place?????

[Yasuandio]

Hmmmm Yas...ya got me thinking about getting my Phd....how does Trippi1432, M.S., Ph.D. sound?

 

Ince I know you personally, I can honestly say, you are a shoe-in. I say apply for your field, business school is logical, MBA is the terminal degree. But - Ph.D. sounds a heck of a lot better. The trick with (at least, a decent) Ph.D., is to add a grain of sand to the knowledge base - that means, you invent new knowledge, based on the knowledge others have invented before you (a grain of sand in the mortar that builds the bricks, or in other words, advances knowledge). That is the best way I can put. That means you need to know everything possible thing about a very small bit of knowledge that you will advance with your contribution. [AKA: More and more about less and less]. You know I can come up with an angle in your field, hon, no worries.

 

Once you have been made a REAL Ph.D. contribution thru a repututible program (which comes close to killing you), you are never the same again. And you see the knowledge base options all around you due to the hidious training of a rigorous and serious department of study. They are not all equal. Try to find an easy one. Where I ended up working the longest period of time, was pathetic, compared to my studies. No one wanted me on their Doctoral committee, that was for sure. Haha. So many of those student stroked out with my questions, nothing like I felt with. At least they had 3 others giving them kindergarten questions. Oh, my. What a stupid career. Kisses, Yas

[jakrbbt]

You all are helping me see my situation a tiny bit from the outside. E gads, I am a wimp for sticking around.

 

As for what I saw in him, well first of all, not to sound shallow but I always found him extremely sexy. Second of all, he seemed so solid in character and so calm and simple, compared to other (more educated or active) men. He was smitten with me for years and I actually thought he was a hard worker-- though he did seem to jump from job to job a lot. I never knew about him turning down a good-paying job for unemployment, until the other night.

 

I was a bit inattentive for a long time, totally focusing on my education and career while he pretty much waited in the wings along with a few other men who got their feelings more hurt than he did, and who became offended that I didn't want marriage while H just kept waiting. H also went back to school to impress me, and got a social work degree from university (he should really get his master's, but fears failure or something).

 

We were kind of a quirky romance wherein I turned down a few lawyers, a successful poet, a respected (and very sweet) British archaeologist, an ambassador and a youngish Harvard professor for this rebellious, olive-skinned, gorgeous but not caring about his looks, charming and crass, non-sock-wearing lumber mill worker and radio DJ-turned-social worker. I speak fluent Latin and French, proficient Russian and Italian, strangers still ask me whether I'm a ballet dancer (I'm not)-- he built espresso machines and cars and had gotten his ribs broken by the cops while a teenage punk in Utah. It was an interesting match, and I like interesting. I don't know, he was a fantastic kisser and he loved me and he had an ancient cranky cat that he took good care of.

 

I guess I saw him as a safe choice. I had a bully boss for years and then, as soon as that ended, an attempted kidnap at gunpoint. I mean, WHAT??? I'd always led a ridiculously fortunate and adventurous and whimsical life before all that. Think "Anne of Green Gables." That was me only with six siblings and no orphan back-story. I guess I turned into a coward after bully boss and attempted killer rape guy. I no longer wanted to be single. In the romance department, I got a bit confused and anxious over which person to "pick"-- and I went with Mr. Simplicity. I know I must have lost a lot of confidence and self-worth during my bullied years.

 

And once the problems started showing themselves, I chalked them up to something short-term, like depression from his latest job loss. Then I got pregnant. At that point I knew he'd be in my life one way or another for good. Also I did love him (though I was never weak in the knees for him)-- so I thought it would be best to say yes to marriage. I am glad I tried. I love my son, and for his sake, it's best that my husband and I try marriage. But I didn't do my research before getting pregnant. We can't make it. If we can't make it, it's best that we split up while baby is young.

 

It's been almost fun droning on. It gives me perspective and I hope that it is slightly interesting to those of you coming here to gain insight on this crazy beast that is divorce.

Edited August 4, 2014 by jakrbbt

[Yasuandio]

You all are helping me see my situation a tiny bit from the outside. E gads, I am a wimp for sticking around.

 

As for what I saw in him, well first of all, not to sound shallow but I always found him extremely sexy. Second of all, he seemed so solid in character and so calm and simple, compared to other (more educated or active) men. He was smitten with me for years and I actually thought he was a hard worker-- though he did seem to jump from job to job a lot. I never knew about him turning down a good-paying job for unemployment, until the other night.

 

I was a bit inattentive for a long time, totally focusing on my education and career while he pretty much waited in the wings along with a few other men who got their feelings more hurt than he did, and who became offended that I didn't want marriage while H just kept waiting. H also went back to school to impress me, and got a social work degree from university (he should really get his master's, but fears failure or something).

 

We were kind of a quirky romance wherein I turned down a few lawyers, a successful poet, a respected (and very sweet) British archaeologist, an ambassador and a youngish Harvard professor for this rebellious, olive-skinned, gorgeous but not caring about his looks, charming and crass, non-sock-wearing lumber mill worker and radio DJ-turned-social worker. I speak fluent Latin and French, proficient Russian and Italian, strangers still ask me whether I'm a ballet dancer (I'm not)-- he built espresso machines and cars and had gotten his ribs broken by the cops while a teenage punk in Utah. It was an interesting match, and I like interesting. I don't know, he was a fantastic kisser and he loved me and he had an ancient cranky cat that he took good care of.

 

I guess I saw him as a safe choice. I had a bully boss for years and then, as soon as that ended, an attempted kidnap at gunpoint. I mean, WHAT??? I'd always led a ridiculously fortunate and adventurous and whimsical life before all that. Think "Anne of Green Gables." That was me only with six siblings and no orphan back-story. I guess I turned into a coward after bully boss and attempted killer rape guy. I no longer wanted to be single. In the romance department, I got a bit confused and anxious over which person to "pick"-- and I went with Mr. Simplicity. I know I must have lost a lot of confidence and self-worth during my bullied years.

 

And once the problems started showing themselves, I chalked them up to something short-term, like depression from his latest job loss. Then I got pregnant. At that point I knew he'd be in my life one way or another for good. Also I did love him (though I was never weak in the knees for him)-- so I thought it would be best to say yes to marriage. I am glad I tried. I love my son, and for his sake, it's best that my husband and I try marriage. But I didn't do my research before getting pregnant. We can't make it. If we can't make it, it's best that we split up while baby is young.

 

It's been almost fun droning on. It gives me perspective and I hope that it is slightly interesting to those of you coming here to gain insight on this crazy beast that is divorce.

 

Honey, you have written a masterpiece. The epitome of coming to terms with the enivibility of divorce. Our life challenges twist our way down the stream in the way the current will flow. That is it. You said it all just now. Sleep peacefully angle. Yas

[trippi1432]

You all are helping me see my situation a tiny bit from the outside. E gads, I am a wimp for sticking around.

 

As for what I saw in him, well first of all, not to sound shallow but I always found him extremely sexy. Second of all, he seemed so solid in character and so calm and simple, compared to other (more educated or active) men. He was smitten with me for years and I actually thought he was a hard worker-- though he did seem to jump from job to job a lot. I never knew about him turning down a good-paying job for unemployment, until the other night.

 

I was a bit inattentive for a long time, totally focusing on my education and career while he pretty much waited in the wings along with a few other men who got their feelings more hurt than he did, and who became offended that I didn't want marriage while H just kept waiting. H also went back to school to impress me, and got a social work degree from university (he should really get his master's, but fears failure or something).

 

We were kind of a quirky romance wherein I turned down a few lawyers, a successful poet, a respected (and very sweet) British archaeologist, an ambassador and a youngish Harvard professor for this rebellious, olive-skinned, gorgeous but not caring about his looks, charming and crass, non-sock-wearing lumber mill worker and radio DJ-turned-social worker. I speak fluent Latin and French, proficient Russian and Italian, strangers still ask me whether I'm a ballet dancer (I'm not)-- he built espresso machines and cars and had gotten his ribs broken by the cops while a teenage punk in Utah. It was an interesting match, and I like interesting. I don't know, he was a fantastic kisser and he loved me and he had an ancient cranky cat that he took good care of.

 

I guess I saw him as a safe choice. I had a bully boss for years and then, as soon as that ended, an attempted kidnap at gunpoint. I mean, WHAT??? I'd always led a ridiculously fortunate and adventurous and whimsical life before all that. Think "Anne of Green Gables." That was me only with six siblings and no orphan back-story. I guess I turned into a coward after bully boss and attempted killer rape guy. I no longer wanted to be single. In the romance department, I got a bit confused and anxious over which person to "pick"-- and I went with Mr. Simplicity. I know I must have lost a lot of confidence and self-worth during my bullied years.

 

And once the problems started showing themselves, I chalked them up to something short-term, like depression from his latest job loss. Then I got pregnant. At that point I knew he'd be in my life one way or another for good. Also I did love him (though I was never weak in the knees for him)-- so I thought it would be best to say yes to marriage. I am glad I tried. I love my son, and for his sake, it's best that my husband and I try marriage. But I didn't do my research before getting pregnant. We can't make it. If we can't make it, it's best that we split up while baby is young.

 

It's been almost fun droning on. It gives me perspective and I hope that it is slightly interesting to those of you coming here to gain insight on this crazy beast that is divorce.

 

Admit it, you like the bad boys...the uncultured. It's okay though.....you did love him and you probably will later as well but not in the way a husband and wife feel.

 

As far as turning into a coward...I get that. The others challenged you too much and this one didn't challenge you enough until the whole dynamic of a life together appeared, you can't control nor should you be controlled. That's typically where bad boys check out...and sounds like he has.

 

On your observations...I've dealt with OCD and Narcissism....blame (for God's sake, an entire country was obliterated one night when my second ex was actually sober and watched the news...and it was my fault...lol) those are things HE is responsible for getting treated. My second ex blamed his OCD and NPD on Fibromyalgia.....easily treatable...but is no cure for d*ckhead and it's not Fibromyagia related.

 

You have to pick a side...You and be happy with what you have as everything else will work itself out as long as you let it be and accept it (dog poop on a gold spoon)......

 

or YOU and your son. You will never control how he relates to him, but it gives you better options if you learn to pick the good guys and not the wrong ones.

 

There is light at the end of the tunnel...YOU just have to get off the tracks.......

[Raena]

I was pretty much in similar shoes to you about a year ago. My ex never did anything around the house either, didn't work for 3 years and didn't do much for our son when he was watching him during that time and after. Then he got a job working nights and I was left to take care of everything by myself.

 

I had the same thoughts.... really, what would be different if he and I weren't together. Honestly, it really isn't that much different. I still have to take care of our child every night, I still have to do all the housework and everything else that I had to do. The only thing that changed was the amount of income coming into my household and it didn't take much to adjust that to work as well. I'm MUCH happier now than I was when he and I were together. It's not perfect, I was miserable for awhile and co-parenting with him is a nightmare but I don't regret kicking him out for one single second.

 

If you choose to leave, you may find that you'll be happier too. You can't force other people to be who you want them to be. Either they are, or they aren't.

 

Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

[jakrbbt]

 

 

 

- I agree with the those that say that divorce is always a bit painful while you are in the middle of it and may sting for a while in the immediate aftermath but within a matter of months of getting out from under this you will feel like a great weight has been lifted off of you and you will enjoy the post-divorce life much more than what you are enduring now.

 

 

- You may or may not find true happiness and true love after divorce but you stand a very reasonable and realistic chance of doing so. however you are guaranteed continued suffering indefinitely forever if you don't.

 

 

These two paragraphs make me feel one thousand per cent better about going forward.

 

I keep seething over crappy things he does. Time to start thinking only about the divorce and the post-divorce future.

 

I kind of think that I won't be able to think very much about post-divorce life, until I actually file. That is just the way things work sometimes. There is nothing that is going to make me do it besides just doing it, huh. I am getting there.