Science and Spirituality

[Victoria7]

Scientists explain the Higgs Boson is responsible for the Big Bang which created all Matter and caused the universe to expand.

 

But the question remains what happened prior to the Big Bang. Was there nothing or was there something? And where does spirituality figure into this - if nothing was the state prior to the Big Bang then isn't believing in nothing believing in the original God?

[Madman81]

Scientists explain the Higgs Boson is responsible for the Big Bang which created all Matter and caused the universe to expand.

 

But the question remains what happened prior to the Big Bang. Was there nothing or was there something? And where does spirituality figure into this - if nothing was the state prior to the Big Bang then isn't believing in nothing believing in the original God?

It could well be, but it's not equivalent to believing in a God as set out in any of the world's religions.

 

We may never know for sure if the Big Bang created the universe, though from what I understand it's the most plausible explanation from a the standpoint of current scientific knowledge. But it does raise the question of "what was there before, if anything", which every other explanation also raises, even those based on religion.

 

It's worth remembering, which I also forget quite a bit, that linear time is a human construct that we use to organize and conceptualize the events we and our ancestors live through and experience. Theoretical physics and astrophysics suggest things aren't uniformly so cut-and-dried. The amount of stuff we simply don't understand yet is staggering.

[Victoria7]

It could well be, but it's not equivalent to believing in a God as set out in any of the world's religions.

 

We may never know for sure if the Big Bang created the universe, though from what I understand it's the most plausible explanation from a the standpoint of current scientific knowledge. But it does raise the question of "what was there before, if anything", which every other explanation also raises, even those based on religion.

 

It's worth remembering, which I also forget quite a bit, that linear time is a human construct that we use to organize and conceptualize the events we and our ancestors live through and experience. Theoretical physics and astrophysics suggest things aren't uniformly so cut-and-dried. The amount of stuff we simply don't understand yet is staggering.

 

You're correct we don't understand much of how the universe works. Most of the cosmos is comprised of Dark Matter and what's lurking in that may never be revealed. I've read several different theories regarding time and reality. Spend too much time thinking about it and you can go insane.

 

But even if the cosmos were filled with parallel universes something still needed to happen prior to the creation of matter.

[Ronni_W]

There is a manuscript that (attempts to) answer some of these types of questions - 'The Truth and Science of Life - Volume 1'. I've read it a few times and still can't wrap my head around most of it

 

Includes stuff about 'The Flower of Life'...and vectors and gravity. I *love* quantum science...which I believe is "spiritual" or has "consciousness" in back of it...but most of it is above my conscious comprehension...at this time...but one of these days...

 

I think it is Earth humanity's ideas, notions, perceptions of "God" that prevent us from further understanding how the Universe works. AND, scientists and faith leaders with too much too lose that blocks newer ideas from taking root. (For example, what they've done to Nassim Haramein...who has some great YouTube content about all of this.)

 

Best of luck in your striving for the Truth of Reality!

[TheFinalWord]

Was there nothing or was there something?

 

As Parmenides stated: "from nothing, nothing comes"

 

You are asking a question, which many philosophers have asked, "why is there something rather than nothing" This can get into what are called, contingency arguments. Basically, they state the universe does not exist necessarily, but is contingent.

 

Here is the basic set of premises and conclusion of the contingency argument for the existence of God:

 

1) Everything that exists has an explanation of its existence, either in the necessity of its own nature or in an external cause.

2) The universe exists.

3) If the universe has an explanation of its existence that explanation is an external, transcendent personal cause.

4) Therefore, the existence of the universe is an external, transcendent, personal cause.

 

The argument essentially says that everything that exists has some explanation for why it exists; either it exists by a necessity of its own nature (mathematical objects, sets, etc.). In other words, these necessary entities do not have causes for their existence and do not require explanations for why they exist. The exist as a necessity; it would be impossible for them not to exist (God as a necessary being). Other things are contingent in their existence; that is, they have external causes (e.g. mountains, computers, galaxies, etc.).

 

The contingency argument states the universe does not exist by the necessity of its own nature (debatable), it has to have an explanation that resides in an external cause.

 

But the question remains what happened prior to the Big Bang

 

Good question. One technical, but interesting point, is that there was no such thing as "prior" before the universe began, as time did not exist. This is important to keep in mind, because what you have basically pointed out, is that the casual agent that brought the universe into being must be immaterial (nothing, i.e. not comprised of matter) and this causal agent must exist beyond time and space.

 

If nothing was the state prior to the Big Bang then isn't believing in nothing believing in the original God?.

 

It is interesting you uncovered this. What you have basically uncovered is that the causal agent is immaterial. Keep searching

Edited August 6, 2014 by TheFinalWord
added link for those interested in independent research

[Victoria7]

As Parmenides stated: "from nothing, nothing comes"

 

You are asking a question, which many philosophers have asked, "why is there something rather than nothing" This can get into what are called, contingency arguments. Basically, they state the universe does not exist necessarily, but is contingent.

 

Here is the basic set of premises and conclusion of the contingency argument for the existence of God:

 

1) Everything that exists has an explanation of its existence, either in the necessity of its own nature or in an external cause.

2) The universe exists.

3) If the universe has an explanation of its existence that explanation is an external, transcendent personal cause.

4) Therefore, the existence of the universe is an external, transcendent, personal cause.

 

The argument essentially says that everything that exists has some explanation for why it exists; either it exists by a necessity of its own nature (mathematical objects, sets, etc.). In other words, these necessary entities do not have causes for their existence and do not require explanations for why they exist. The exist as a necessity; it would be impossible for them not to exist (God as a necessary being). Other things are contingent in their existence; that is, they have external causes (e.g. mountains, computers, galaxies, etc.).

 

The contingency argument states the universe does not exist by the necessity of its own nature (debatable), it has to have an explanation that resides in an external cause.

 

 

 

Good question. One technical, but interesting point, is that there was no such thing as "prior" before the universe began, as time did not exist. This is important to keep in mind, because what you have basically pointed out, is that the casual agent that brought the universe into being must be immaterial (nothing, i.e. not comprised of matter) and this causal agent must exist beyond time and space.

 

 

 

It is interesting you uncovered this. What you have basically uncovered is that the causal agent is immaterial. Keep searching

 

I'm hoping in a couple of years quantum computers will figure it out for me.

[FitChick]

Get the DVD What the Bleep Do We Know? Masterful blending of science and religion.

[writergal]

The answer to your question, OP, is of course, "42."

[DorothyGale]

Scientists explain the Higgs Boson is responsible for the Big Bang which created all Matter and caused the universe to expand.

 

But the question remains what happened prior to the Big Bang. Was there nothing or was there something? And where does spirituality figure into this - if nothing was the state prior to the Big Bang then isn't believing in nothing believing in the original God?

 

 

Most people can't comprehend common sense; I doubt they're capable of understanding this type of phenomenon.

[Disillusioned]

Most people can't comprehend common sense; I doubt they're capable of understanding this type of phenomenon.

 

To clarify, what you're referring to is actually rare sense.

 

IME the majority of people believe in magic, i.e., they really believe it's possible to break the laws of physics. Some such people have intellectual disabilities, or chemical imbalances in the brain which make them unable to distinguish between reality and hallucinations. Others, like many New Agers I've met, have a deep distrust of evidence ("out of sight, out of mind").

 

Seriously, though... how does one scientifically explain God? He's essentially a disembodied mind who can be everywhere, break the laws of physics, hijack mortal minds and bodies---and why did He first manifest Himself to a bunch of ancient Mid-easterners (who probably were prone to hallucinations anyway), but not to the ancient Chinese or Mayans or anyone else?

 

No wonder holy roller types discourage critical thinking. If people who think scientifically had their way, religious folk would all be walking around with little satellite dishes wired to the sides of their heads, and carrying God-O-Meters.

[SpiralOut]

Frank Herbert talks a lot about the nature of God in his science fiction books, usually by having spiritually enlightened aliens explain things to humans. Great combo of science and spirituality.

[DorothyGale]

To clarify, what you're referring to is actually rare sense.

 

IME the majority of people believe in magic, i.e., they really believe it's possible to break the laws of physics. Some such people have intellectual disabilities, or chemical imbalances in the brain which make them unable to distinguish between reality and hallucinations. Others, like many New Agers I've met, have a deep distrust of evidence ("out of sight, out of mind").

 

Seriously, though... how does one scientifically explain God? He's essentially a disembodied mind who can be everywhere, break the laws of physics, hijack mortal minds and bodies---and why did He first manifest Himself to a bunch of ancient Mid-easterners (who probably were prone to hallucinations anyway), but not to the ancient Chinese or Mayans or anyone else?

 

No wonder holy roller types discourage critical thinking. If people who think scientifically had their way, religious folk would all be walking around with little satellite dishes wired to the sides of their heads, and carrying God-O-Meters.

 

People are frustrated for answers. Life is difficult and often seems like a task not worth doing. I look at my own life and don't get it. I'd like to have someone to complain to and say "Hey God... WTF?"

 

But I know nobody is listening, even though I wish they were. My happiness isn't important in the big scheme of life because I'm only a particle of the whole. Humans are stupid creatures who think they're intelligent because they can build and destroy cities. But humans are just the children of the Cosmos waiting for daddy to come home.

[Robert Z]

String Theory, or M-Theory, and Brane Theory suggests that the 4-dimensional universe we observe could have resulted from the collapse of an 11-dimensional hypersurface, or perhaps due to the collision of "branes" in a multiverse of universes.

 

It is looking more like the question is, how did the multiverse originate? And the answer is, it has always existed; and outside of time and space as we know it.

 

The first direct evidence for other universes was just recently observed.

 

Our cosmos was “bruised” in collisions with other universes. Now astronomers have found the first evidence of these impacts in the cosmic microwave background... That’s an extraordinary discovery: evidence of something that occurred before the (conventional) Big Bang.

Astronomers Find First Evidence of Other Universes | MIT Technology Review

 

 

It may well be that universes bubble out of the void like bubbles in a champagne glass, or like soap bubbles in a bubble maker, and we are living in just one of an infinite and eternal multiverse of universes.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Robert Z

[Robert Z]

Interestingly, if there are other universes, then there is a chance; there could be a race of beings in some other universe a trillion, or a trillion-trillion-trillion years [relatively speaking] older than us and our universe. If it will ever be possible to transcend universes then imagine the possibilities. There may be no way to put a theoretical limit on how old a race could be - truly the stuff of science fiction!

 

And consider this: In an infinite and eternal multiverse, anything that can happen will happen. Even if the odds against an event are a billion to one, or a Googoplex to one [the biggest number with a name], in an infinite and eternal multiverse, it is guaranteed by the nature of infinity - that event will occur time and time again. And suddenly, infinitely more than a grain of sand pales in size compared to the universe, our universe pales in comparison to the vastness of a multiverse. Any kind of universe that can exist will exist. It is truly an amazing thing to consider.

 

It is also thought [speculated by some] that most universes fail in that atoms never form and therefore life can never evolve. This is suggested by the fantastically fine balance observed in the physical constants. Were any of the constants such as the speed of light, the gravitational constant, Planks Constant, and a catalogue of other values any different even by a very small amount, nothing could exist. It has always been a mystery how we ever got so lucky. The answer may be that it as possible, so it occurred. And it has occurred an infinite number of times already in other universes, even though the odds against this happening randomly are astronomical.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Robert Z

[Amy_D]

Scientists explain the Higgs Boson is responsible for the Big Bang which created all Matter and caused the universe to expand.

 

But the question remains what happened prior to the Big Bang. Was there nothing or was there something? And where does spirituality figure into this - if nothing was the state prior to the Big Bang then isn't believing in nothing believing in the original God?

 

 

The Big Bang we know of is probably one of several Big Bangs as Robert pointed out in his post. There are probably an infinite number of universes and the actuality of time is questionable. There are so many things we don't know. God is perhaps the membrane holding all the universes together. God just is and always will be as forms come and go.

 

I think the bigger question is: Why?

 

I'm confused as to why God has created all of these universes and forms that interact, merge and destroy. Perhaps life is meaningless? We are free to infuse our own meaning into it to make it bearable. I try not to harm others and do things that give me joy and pleasure. One day, I'll no longer walk this Earth, hug my family or type on the Internet. I think too much. That needs to stop. It usually doesn't do me much good.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Amy_D

[Robert Z]

God

 

 

metaphorically...

Edited August 20, 2014 by Robert Z

[endlessabyss]

People are frustrated for answers. Life is difficult and often seems like a task not worth doing. I look at my own life and don't get it. I'd like to have someone to complain to and say "Hey God... WTF?"

 

But I know nobody is listening, even though I wish they were. My happiness isn't important in the big scheme of life because I'm only a particle of the whole. Humans are stupid creatures who think they're intelligent because they can build and destroy cities. But humans are just the children of the Cosmos waiting for daddy to come home.

 

I really like this post.