Author Cloud794 Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 ... I admire your strength and your wisdom. I don't know if you realise how much you're helping. Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 If I were in your husband's postition, there is only one really moral thing to do: give it up. This is precisely why I think he's trying to control her through guilt. A decent man would cut her loose. You did a good thing; a rare jewel. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I admire your strength and your wisdom. I don't know if you realise how much you're helping. Thank you. You just made my day. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cloud794 Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 ... Really interesting and helpful to have your perspective as well. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. The therapist is telling me - it may or may not be true/ generalisable - that people become more and more selfish as they grow old, so it becomes less and less easy for them to see anything other than their own needs. He is 77. He has systematically refused to make any friends. He is not close to his family. He has absolutely no reason to change anything. He has a lovely comfortable home, good food, good leisure activities, exercise equipment, books, films, the latest gadgets. Until recently, I made every possible effort to include and entertain him, to make him laugh and inspire him. That part of me seems to have died, as I'm now busy struggling to survive living in my head every day. But this doesn't seem to bother him that much - or not visibly so. Interestingly, after we've had a few (attempts at) serious conversation about the situation we're in, he's actually been quite happy and bubbly, while I've been going down the drain. This makes me wonder whether he's decided to just make the best of what he's got, irrespective of how I feel. I understand why it would be really hard for him to let go, as he has absolutely no reason to want a change, other than the purely altruistic one of letting me go, like you say, for my own sake. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cloud794 Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 You just made my day. Very glad I was able to reciprocate! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 As strange as this may sound, if you're on Facebook, I recommend a page there called Humans of New York. For some reason, that site tends to help keep things in perspective because you hear the most incredible things from people. It makes me realize even more how so many people have been through so many things. The owner of that page is now on a world tour and the stuff on there is so amazing! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cloud794 Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 As strange as this may sound, if you're on Facebook, I recommend a page there called Humans of New York. For some reason, that site tends to help keep things in perspective because you hear the most incredible things from people. It makes me realize even more how so many people have been through so many things. I'm not on Facebook, but looked it up and found that there is also a website: Humans of New York Took me less than 20 seconds to see this: "You realize that without physical security, no other layers of the human experience can exist" and to understand that I am (being) stupid, ridiculous and privileged. Off to work in a cafe, with my laptop. It'll be one of my good afternoons. Thank you! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cloud794 Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 As strange as this may sound, if you're on Facebook, I recommend a page there called Humans of New York. For some reason, that site tends to help keep things in perspective because you hear the most incredible things from people. It makes me realize even more how so many people have been through so many things. Still on that website... It's mesmerising!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I'm not on Facebook, but looked it up and found that there is also a website: Humans of New York Took me less than 20 seconds to see this: "You realize that without physical security, no other layers of the human experience can exist" and to understand that I am (being) stupid, ridiculous and privileged. Off to work in a cafe, with my laptop. It'll be one of my good afternoons. Thank you! Oh, wow! I didn't realize there was a website. That makes sense, I just never thought of it. That quote struck me, too. Very, very profound. I don't really think you need to feel stupid, etc. That would be like saying that Bill Gates should feel guilty for his wealth, or that any of us should feel bad for aspiring to greater things. I think all humans should be rich; poverty and despair should be abolished. And those who raise their lives to higher levels serve as an inspiration to the possibilities and good things in life for all of us. I just think that site is a good way for us to keep things in perspective and develop a better understanding of others and their lives. I hope you have a fun day. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cloud794 Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 ... You are a very kind person. Thank you for everything you have shared. I hope you have a good day too! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SummerDreams Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I wish I was there with you and hug you. You seem like a very sensitive and good hearted person who just ended up being in a hard situation. Just remember that you are very young, you still got a whole life ahead of you and things can only go better when you've reached bottom. What I wanted to suggest is, would it be possible that you contacted his kids? They have an obligation towards their father as well. They could help financially and emotionally. That being said, I think that your husband is acting kinda selfish. He knows he is a burden to you and your happiness, but he doesn't have the strength to show you his ultimate love by letting you go. What I would advise you is 1) contact his kids and ask for help and 2) continue searching for ways to meet new people, make interesting activities, you can write a book if you want, you can go on vacation with a group with same interests, there are many lonely people who are searching for company, you are not alone. Talk to your husband and express your feelings. He's committed to be with you in bad and good times, as are you. But this goes both ways. You shouldn't leave him, but he shouldn't ignore your needs as well. Hugs. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cloud794 Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 I wish I was there with you and hug you. Thank you for your warm, supportive reply! ) What I would advise you is 1) contact his kids and ask for help and 2) continue searching for ways to meet new people, make interesting activities, you can write a book if you want, you can go on vacation with a group with same interest I nearly did 1). I may still do it at one point, I don't know. They've been strange to both of us (e.g., by always coming to us for Christmas and 1-2 other times every year, but never inviting us back - even hinting to my husband that he's welcome there on his own, but then always being busy when he wants to go). I don't think I can ask them to help him and I know he wouldn't want to ask either. I think if I do end up divorcing I'll just make sure he has a comfortable place to live and I will support him financially as much as I can. Just like he doesn't have any reason to change because he has everything he needs now, maybe they also don't feel they have any reason to step in, as he's got everything he needs. Maybe if he were on his own they would be kinder to him. I don't know... As for 2) - yes, I am striving to make new friends and go out as much as I can. More complicated with the books... I have written books and my head used to be buzzing with new ideas and new projects until a few months ago. All that has now gone. I feel completely sterile intellectually and emotionally. But, yes, I think the only possible rescue is that I continue to socialise, see new places, do new things, to the small extent that that's possible in my life right now. Thank you for your encouragement! Link to post Share on other sites
SoleMate Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Cloud, I hope you are in some very good personal therapy. Because of the years of abuse you endured, you have emotional issues to address - such as learning to trust yourself - and perhaps some treatable depression as well. I suspect that choosing such an unsuitable marriage partner is just one coping mechanism you've adopted. You've given it a fair try......no shame in now realizing it no longer makes sense. But I'd actually focus on getting yourself healthier before even making a change in your marital situation. Once you're healthy emotionally, or at least on that path, your marriage issues will be easier to address. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cloud794 Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 Cloud, I hope you are in some very good personal therapy. Because of the years of abuse you endured, you have emotional issues to address - such as learning to trust yourself - and perhaps some treatable depression as well. I suspect that choosing such an unsuitable marriage partner is just one coping mechanism you've adopted. You've given it a fair try......no shame in now realizing it no longer makes sense. But I'd actually focus on getting yourself healthier before even making a change in your marital situation. Once you're healthy emotionally, or at least on that path, your marriage issues will be easier to address. Thank you for your sage advice! I've been in therapy for 6-7 months now. I don't know how good it is, compared to other services, but it's certainly helped me understand a lot of things about myself and my situation. So on the one hand it's been really helpful and I think I am a lot stronger as a result. On the other hand, it is from there that I've got this idea that I will never be completely healed and completely able to function as a normal person in society, because of my childhood, because of the love and self-esteem I needed but didn't have when I was growing up. On balance, it's probably good. I clearly cannot turn back time, but maybe I can learn to accept myself better and understand better what my own priorities are/ should be when I make a decision. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
littleplanet Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Really interesting and helpful to have your perspective as well. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. The therapist is telling me - it may or may not be true/ generalisable - that people become more and more selfish as they grow old, so it becomes less and less easy for them to see anything other than their own needs. He is 77. He has systematically refused to make any friends. He is not close to his family. He has absolutely no reason to change anything. He has a lovely comfortable home, good food, good leisure activities, exercise equipment, books, films, the latest gadgets. Until recently, I made every possible effort to include and entertain him, to make him laugh and inspire him. That part of me seems to have died, as I'm now busy struggling to survive living in my head every day. But this doesn't seem to bother him that much - or not visibly so. Interestingly, after we've had a few (attempts at) serious conversation about the situation we're in, he's actually been quite happy and bubbly, while I've been going down the drain. This makes me wonder whether he's decided to just make the best of what he's got, irrespective of how I feel. I understand why it would be really hard for him to let go, as he has absolutely no reason to want a change, other than the purely altruistic one of letting me go, like you say, for my own sake. Cloud 794 and bathtub-row, Thank you, both. 77 is up there somewhat. But it is not necessarily senile or oblivious to morals, ethics or decent human behavior. You did your best to treat him within reasonable bounds of all of these - yet he fails to reciprocate. He has his (material) comforts....yet has not lived a life in such a manner as to ensure the social comforts of a life well-lived. How is it he can remain so blind to the fact that you are so miserable? This seems like more the needs of a child, than an adult. And he knew this time was coming, somewhere down the pipe. Yet he failed to prepare. To consider. When I did what I did, long ago.....it hurt. Yet I recovered. Yes.....I was younger, and had lots of time to rebound and carry on. But had I not.....would that have changed anything? Of course not. The purely altruistic choice is, after all.....an act of love. So the choice is according. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
The Like Fairy Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) This is really an easy decision to me - you need to start the divorce process NOW and get it over with. Don't waste any more time in this unhappy situation. Life is short. Divorce takes a while sometimes. I say, get started now, or at least, soon. Waiting through winter will drive you mad. You've only got one life, and you need to live it as you see fit. That includes getting a divorce when in an unhappy marriage that isn't fixable. Due to the age difference, this marriage isn't fixable, PERIOD. Now, IF he wants to play nice during the divorce, and keep a kind attitude, then maybe you can remain friends and you will help him out now and then in the future with care/concern/visits/whatever you choose. But if not, if he wants to be a jerk during the divorce, then he loses all future privileges to your kindness. Be sure and make that clear to him! No need to feel guilty about any of this. MOVE ON. Best of luck to you. p.s. you will find a lot of posters on here that will advise you to stay, try marital counseling, etc, etc. I know this won't work for you in this situation, so don't even waste your time. You need to be free to move on. At 37, you might still have time to have kids if you want! I had my 2nd child at 38. Act quickly, get out and get on with life! Edited August 10, 2014 by The Like Fairy 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cloud794 Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 77 is up there somewhat. But it is not necessarily senile or oblivious to morals, ethics or decent human behavior. [...] How is it he can remain so blind to the fact that you are so miserable? Thank you. No, he's perfectly alert, fit and youthful for his age. I really don't understand. I've always seen him as a very kind, generous person, although I've had occasional signs that may not extend beyond me. Recently I have started to wonder whether he's been apparently kind to me by actually being exclusively kind to himself. I am the only person he needs and wants in his life (goodness knows why!), so it makes sense to be kind to me, right? It also makes sense, in this warped worldview, to say: "Sure, you must go out and make your own friends, I understand. I'm not going out, no. I don't need any friends. You are my best friend and the only friend I need." What actual choice does that leave me? And how is that making me feel, whatever I do? How come he doesn't realise that?? This is why Bathtub-row's notion of "benevolent manipulator" makes more and more sense to me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cloud794 Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 ... Thank you!! Every sentence you have written describes exactly what I feel right now. This is mainly because of the kind replies that I have received here. It is slightly worrying that it took so little to change so much about how I feel. On the one hand, this could be further proof that I am vulnerable and emotionally unstable. On the other hand, it could be what Bathtub-row said: that I have a good internal radar, but I am not used to trusting it. So perhaps what you said resonates with me so much because I already knew these things, but I was afraid to accept them. I was afraid of the social stigma and the enormity of making such a life-changing decision without having any good friends or family to reassure me that I am doing the right thing. So a big heart-felt THANK YOU to everybody here for being my good friends and my family! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SummerDreams Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 So a big heart-felt THANK YOU to everybody here for being my good friends and my family! I just wanted to add (since now I'm sure you'll do what is best for you and for your good heart) that, the same way you found good and kind people here in this board, you will find good people in the real world who will be willing to be your friends and your family one day. Don't give up hope. Just be careful cause there are some bad people too out there. Keep your instincts working and you won't lose. Good luck. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cloud794 Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 the same way you found good and kind people here in this board, you will find good people in the real world who will be willing to be your friends and your family one day. Don't give up hope. Just be careful cause there are some bad people too out there. Keep your instincts working and you won't lose. Good luck. Yes, thank you. I know I need to socialise a lot more and meet lots of people in order to increase the probability of finding (good) friends. And, yes, to become stronger and wiser. Thank you very much for your help! Link to post Share on other sites
Hope Shimmers Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 "Sure, you must go out and make your own friends, I understand. I'm not going out, no. I don't need any friends. You are my best friend and the only friend I need." What actual choice does that leave me? And how is that making me feel, whatever I do? How come he doesn't realise that?? I think he does realize that, Cloud. I think it is a masterful form of manipulation and bordering on abusive because he is trying to guilt you into thinking that you should need no one but him. I am not saying he is a terrible person, but his response when you talked to him about separation/divorce was interesting too. Why does he want to wait until spring? Why put it off, if he knows that's how you feel? He does not want to lose you and from the sounds of it, he would be a fool not to feel that way. Bathtub-row is a wise and kind person and I agree. I think he knew what he was asking of you when he married you, and he knew you were in a situation where you might be vulnerable to it. As for what your mother thinks (this would be the same mother who beat you senselessly for no reason and who tried to get rid of you while she was pregnant?) she gets no vote in your life. Of course she is proud of you now - I can tell from your posts that any mother would be proud of you, but you did it IN SPITE of her (and your father) and she contributed nothing to your success. You did it on your own. There isn't a cruel bone in your body so you will treat your H well through and after a divorce. I believe that's what you need. Not once in your whole life have you had an opportunity to "find yourself", live on your own, spend time learning who you really are without having some partner that you had to give of yourself to. Never have you had a real relationship with someone around your age with the thrill and intimacy and love that goes with that. You deserve it. Don't wait until after winter, or whenever. As another poster said, that's the beauty of divorce - you don't need anyone's permission, and YOUR timeline is what's important. Don't feel guilty because if anyone deserves this, you do. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I'm curious about his estranged relationship with his children. What's that about? Link to post Share on other sites
Mascara Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 OP whereabouts in the world are you? It may be that some people know of local or nationwide resources for you. Not specifically, just general. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cloud794 Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 ... Thank you so much, Hope Shimmers! (Ha! It does.) I will not wait until next spring. I think I've pretty much decided now, with the kind help of everyone here. I can't start anything now because I have other things coming up, but I will next month. I feel A LOT better having made this decision, but I know I've got some horror times ahead of me, as I will stay in the house and H will have to go. I know that will be very hard. His best option is to move into 'sheltered accommodation' (a scheme for people over 65 to live together, but independently, in their own flat/ house, with someone on site to help if needed). He will need to add himself to a waiting list for that, so it may take a while, but then the divorce won't be instant either. He once told me he would kill himself rather than live in a place like that, which I suppose fits in nicely with all the other emotional manipulation and blackmail. If something were to happen to him, I don't know how I'll be able to live with that for the rest of my life, but I will not let this thought stop me. In the past I thought I would be able to be a complete nun and dedicate my life entirely to looking after him, but that has now changed - probably since I started therapy. I do actually want to live and make the best of the years I have got left. There are so many things I would love to do (travelling, seeing new places, meeting new people, learning languages and cultures, feeling that I am alive). (P.S. That is the same mother, yes. ) Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cloud794 Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 OP whereabouts in the world are you? It may be that some people know of local or nationwide resources for you. UK. I've put that (back) in my profile now. Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites
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