Knowing what the right thing to do when someone is seperated

[Toodaloo]

Hi Folks

 

Going through a bit of a confusing time here and could use some perspective from those who have been there and done that.

 

I will try to be brief.

 

Know a chap and his daughter through charity work that we have done for a couple of years. Just as acquaintances and friends nothing more. Get on really well with both and always have (we go on "opposing teams" and share a lot of banter). A couple of months ago the father was looking unusually glum. I asked if he was alright and it came out that he had separated from his wife and having a tough time, not spoken to anyone about it and could I be a listening ear. No problem.

 

Spent a few evenings listening and then the talking about the wife eased off and he started talking about every day things. Then something happened. We haven't had sex but we have been intimate if that makes sense. He was on top of the world, very happy, laughing, joking and back to his old self. I must confess that during our later conversations I had seen something pretty special. All of this has been kept between us. I have some friends that are not connected to that side of my life or him in any way so they know that I have someone in the back ground who is separated that I have been spending time with. No one in his life other than myself knows about me more than we are friends who volunteer to help at a local charity. Mostly because his wife is being extremely nasty towards him (and occasionally his children) and knowing about me would make it far worse for both him and his children, his daughter in particular because we spend time together.

 

I have respected that he loved his wife but from his description of her current actions and not knowing her I was puzzled as to why he was with her at all... A couple of weeks ago he said he wanted to stay away because his "head was in a mess". Judging by the situation he is in and what has been going on I can completely understand why. I have been in contact to check he is ok once after hearing he was acting out of character and also once to see if he wanted to go to see a band that I thought he might like in a couple of months. Both times he has returned my texts straight away (we both work and live in bad signal areas so phone calls are not the norm even though we both hate text) and with a positive response.

 

During all of this I have been fulfilling my promise to his daughter to take her out and do certain activities with her that she has always wanted to do but not been able to with her parents/ friends. She has been talking to me about her parents and my advice has always been "leave them to it and let them sort it out between them". During this I have met his wife. Who is actually not that bad and while I disagree with much of her behavior, and personally would go about things in a very different way, she is not a bad person. She clearly very angry, confused and taking that out on her family. She was the one who instigated the split and has remained adamant they would not be getting back together when he tried to reconcile and suggested counselling etc (all of this was a couple of months before we started talking about it).

 

My worries are these;

1. I do not want to be the person that splits this couple up. Yes they are separated, it is highly doubtful that they will ever get back together. This is the third time, the longest they have been separated for and he is now wanting to stay seperated. But I want to make sure that my actions are not a part of that and it remains their mutual decision when the time comes to sign the paperwork. I am also concerned that as I am spending more and more time with his daughter it could be seen as more or something different to what it is. I am doing it so she is involved in something healthy and positive that she is keen to do rather than getting into drink and drugs and has someone to talk to that remains neutral (and God that is so hard to do - have taken the stand to just shut up and let her talk) who is not a hysterical teenager. We also get on very well and she has told me how important I am to her and that she absolutely does not want to spend less time with me (2 evenings a week normally). I checked with her father, who responded not to stop as she loves spending time with me and can't stop talking about our adventures. His daughter has no clue about what has passed between her father and I.

 

2. I am besotted with this man. I want the best for him. That may not be with me and I accept that, if I am honest as long as he is happy that is all I want for him. However I am worried. I am worried about being a rebound and so I am staying away and not getting involved with anything intimate for the time being. I have made it clear that the door is open but I am recognizing and respecting that he needs time. I am worried that what happened between us may have caused confusion in his mind and not helped the situation. I am worried that he has now effectively "lost his sounding board" because of the intimacy we shared and now he is back to square one and trying to deal with all that messed up emotion on his own.

 

Can someone who has been in this situation please help me out and give me a clue as to whether or not I am doing the right thing? This man and his daughter are very special to me indeed.

 

Thanks in advance.

[PegNosePete]

My advice is to steer clear until he has a divorce and financial resolution signed and sealed in his hand.

 

Getting involved with a separated person is extremely high risk, you're very much putting your heart and feelings on the line and they can get trampled on in multiple different ways. He could go back to her (although you say it's unlikely, it has happened twice before right?), the wife could find out about you and turn VERY nasty against him and you, the daughter could find out and blame you for splitting her parents up, etc etc. The list goes on and on. You are putting your head into a lion's mouth and tickling his feet.

[Toodaloo]

You are absolutely right. Which is why I am so concerned about not sticking my foot in it. It is also why I am more than happy to take a back seat romantically and leave things be until the situation is resolved and he has had time to gather himself. However I am now questioning things that I would not even have thought of before and asking myself what is right and wrong.

 

It has happened twice before. Her actions on those occasions were not as "dramatic" as this, he was back within a short period of time and more water has passed under the bridge. Which is why I believe that this time it will probably be the end. I had no idea about any of the previous splits before he started talking.

 

I just don't want to do anything inappropriate, if this were someone that I was not already friends with I would have walked away. I don't want to damage our friendship and I don't want to hurt him.

 

My confusion is not really over when it would be appropriate to date him. That is obvious to me. My confusion is over what is and isn't helpful during this time. How can I do the right thing by him.

 

What I really want to do is walk away until a later date and be done with it. However if I did this his daughter would be extremely upset and it would affect the charity work that we do quite badly as we are both "key players" if that makes any sense.

[PegNosePete]

Right, well you can carry on being a friend and talking to him but don't do any date or date-like activities or do anything beyond friendship.

 

How is his divorce progressing? Has he even filed yet?

[whichwayisup]

Who is actually not that bad and while I disagree with much of her behavior, and personally would go about things in a very different way, she is not a bad person.

 

There are 3 sides to the truth. His truth, her truth and the real truth. As you now see his wife is not half as bad as he's made her out to be. People tend to exaggerate so they look better in other people's eyes and I think he's done that with you. Don't believe all that he tells you.

 

He (and she) are in no rush to divorce. Is this separation a break from one another? Is the separation and intention to divorce or get back together? These are things you really don't know for sure, and it's possible they don't know either. Do they have rules set up - While separated they each can date and see others?

 

I'd stop the intimacy with him, even more so since you are getting closer to his daughter. She trusts you, thinking you're a friend - Not as a girlfriend to her dad.

 

Most kids, of any age, don't want their parents to break up so please don't get too attached and think some day you'll be her step mom.

 

You need to talk to him and be honest about how you feel, where this 'friendship' is going. If he can't figure it out and is confused or doing nothing about his marriage, my suggestion is to walk away. If you stay and get more attached to him, you're gonna get hurt.

[Toodaloo]

Thank you Guys.

 

I think I am doing the right thing but I guess I just need reassurance. I have used the term probably because no one knows what the future holds.

 

The intimacy has stopped. It stopped before it could go too far and as soon as we both realised that actually this wasn't a one night stand and what was potentially happening could hurt people, not just ourselves.

 

The father has never said that his wife is a bad person. Only that she can be irrational and over the top in her actions. He has described her actions to me over the past 18 months, any sane person would think are the actions of a complete and utter B****. All of that which he has told me is very true. I suspect that the situation is that she has not loved him for a very long time but because he is supportive, caring and one of those chaps that every girl dreams of, she has got back together with him to try again only to realise that she really doesn't love him and the cycle starts again. She is also under a phenomenal amount of pressure to stay with him from friends and her family which I guess is leaving her feeling very isolated and alone. Neither of them are bad people, nor have they done anything "wrong", but I suspect this pressure and being miserable for so very long is what is causing the irrational and over the top behaviour. Having been in that situation I can empathise to some extent, only when I went through it, it was easier for several reasons a. no emotional ties such as children b. house was mine with no financial ties and the one that made it far easier c. our misery made him turn to drink so I was able to use that as the reason when in actual fact the only reason was that I simply didn't love him. The father has not in any way been dishonest about her behaviour. Everything he has said is true, in some cases he has down played the things she has done. Even then I find her actions to be completely over the top and excessive. Again read above for what I suspect are the reasons are behind this.

 

He has told both myself and his daughter that he no longer loves his wife. Her actions over the past year/ 18 months have caused an enormous amount of pain, anxiety and hurt to both him and his children. He feels that he can not continue on this way and is currently trying to figure out how he wants to deal with it, how he wants to go about rebuilding his life. He is going to see a solicitor as soon as work calms down. It is an extremely busy period at the moment, due to the season, which I completely understand as I am from the same back ground, and he is currently working from around 5 - 6 am to 10 at night, 7 days a week, so is exhausted. He is planning to meet with a solicitor that has been recommended to him around mid/ late September. His daughter fluctuates between wishing they would split up and hoping they will get back together, most of the time she wishes they would divorce and find other people and she has spoken about how nervous she is about who those people might be. One of the many times I just shut up and let her talk.

 

The father is not living at the family home, hasn't for several months (about 6-7), and is staying at a relatives but still paying all household bills.

 

His wife is on dating websites, is known to be in contact with a particular male who lives some distance away, and has also asked him to file for divorce so they can "get it over and done with". They do not have "rules" set up, which I feel is an oversight and would have been better for both of them, however they can barely speak to each other at the moment with out it ending up in a screaming match so I doubt either of them would be able be sensible enough at this point to discuss the finer detail regarding dating others etc. He has not spoken about me however she has told him about other men she has been seeing. She is not being exclusive to anyone, she has not been intimate with her husband for around a year/ just over.

 

Both he and I were very shocked when we realised we could be more. It is not what we were expecting and we both recognised that the timing was completely off. I myself have only recently split up from a long term relationship so have been "single" for a shorter amount of time than he has. While my situation is again much easier, house is my own, no children etc. I have no intention of ever getting back together with my ex but I am still going through the grieving process and am currently very insecure (big abandonment issues after my ex's actions, he left me dying to go away on a boys weekend and had no idea if I survived until I was well enough to call him, I didn't know he had seen what was happening until a while after. But all of this was caused by him simply not loving me not being a bad person). So I am very nervous as well. Hence why we have not had sex despite sleeping in the same bed overnight on several occasions. Yes folks it can happen it just takes a lot of will power, big pyjamas and a wish to be as correct as possible! We both recognise that we both need time. I am stuck however as having never been married (I have been rather independent over the years) and my previous break ups being relatively straight forward (I either walked away with just my clothes or they left and I helped them pack all of their belongings and made an even split). I find myself unable to advise or know how to help - I actually don't think I am in the right position to now anyway.

 

This is very much uncharted territory for me. I have never "dated" anyone so close to a break up on either side and I have no idea if what I am doing is right or wrong. Not that you can really call it that, more of a realisation that I am smitten with this man and it distresses me to know he is hurting, yet trying to stay at a distance at the same time, the greater the feeling the further back we have both stepped. Because we have been friends for such a long time I am also deeply concerned, his well being and happiness means a great deal to me. I am concerned that his daughter wants to spend more time with me. I am assuming its because she can just talk and get it off her chest, and so she can get out of what is a deeply unhappy home at the moment. I do not criticise anything her mother does on purpose as despite it being excessive it really is not my place to.

 

So any advice, even blunt would be gratefully received.

[PegNosePete]

So has he filed for divorce? If not, why?

[Toodaloo]

He hasn't yet.

 

To start with he was reluctant because he knew it would cause her to be "awkward". She has a tendency at the moment to be vile at the drop of a hat, not just to him but also to the children. Example he brought and took round fairy dish washer tabs instead of liquid which then caused enormous arguments that caused children to be grounded and him to be banned from seeing them for several days until they behaved "badly" one night and she called him to settle them down at gone midnight.

 

Now he has accepted that she will be awkward no matter what he does but it is the season during which he has to work very long hours as a part of his job so he has put it off until he can spend time making sure that he does it correctly and get some legal advise from a solicitor he has had a recommendation for from another friend.

[PegNosePete]

He hasn't yet.

This is the only relevant part of your post, and the previous long post too.

 

He hasn't filed in 6-7 months of separation.

 

There is a reason for that, and it's not the blah blah blah poor excuses that he's feeding you.

 

If he wanted to get a divorce then he'd be well on the way to getting one by now. He hasn't -- that speaks volumes about the situation. Actions (or lack thereof) speak louder than words.

[Toodaloo]

He hasn't filed in 6-7 months of separation.

 

What is a "normal" length of time?

 

Of the divorced people I know, they waited 6-12 months at least, most waited 2 years, before filing regardless of if they met someone else or not. I know 2 people who are still married but not involved at all with their wives other than for the children, and have not filed yet they have no intention of ever returning. When I asked one about his experience his reply was "Oh better do that so I can propose to my girlfriend"... He has been "separated" for at least 5 years.

 

I was imagining him not filing until around December?? He only moved out in January so I thought him doing it in September was fast?

 

Again I have no idea, I only know a few people who have divorced. I have never been involved with anyone until after they were divorced before?

[PegNosePete]

I filed on the first day I was legally able.

[Toodaloo]

I filed on the first day I was legally able.

 

How long was that after you separated? What are the legal requirements prior to filing? Again I have no idea, neither does he until he speaks to the solicitor.

 

and your right - I do waffle... apologies. Thank you though for persevering with me. I do appreciate it.

[whichwayisup]

Sorry to say this, but you know way too much about her and her faults. IT takes two for a marriage to really fall apart to the point separation is necessary. Maybe they just aren't suited well but I find it hard to believe it's all her fault...At least that's what it seems like you're saying, or am I just reading between the lines? Has he ever said anything he's done to contribute to their problems? I doubt very much he's the perfect and kind husband all the time. Don't believe every single word he's telling you about his marriage and his wife. You haven't seen it firsthand.

His wife is on dating websites, is known to be in contact with a particular male who lives some distance away, and has also asked him to file for divorce so they can "get it over and done with".

 

He told you this? Or did you see this online?

 

Nothing really is stopping either of them from filing. Those who want out, file and divorce. Awkward or not!

[Toodaloo]

She told me about the websites. He told me later after be found out directly from her. I havent painted a fair picture. He may be fantastic but he works long hours, more so in the summer. So he is not around as much as someone with an office job. He is not at all in touch with emotions and doesn't understand them at all. He can be an utter a*** when he is in a mood and is a wind up merchant. He is also meak and constantly apologising which is anoying to the extreme doesnt stick up for himself and can be bit of a lad. He is very laid back with the children imagine a chalk and cheese while she would shout at them for climbing in furniture he would be making up bear hunt games involving climbing all over it. He can also sulk as I discovered when I pointed out to him that although she ended it that she would be hurting too. As I have said before neither of them are bad people and I believe her bad behaviour is a result of being unhappy not that she is horrible or nasty. Yes it would be very easy to belive she is terrible but as I have said before she really is not.

 

I am not into stalking so have not seen her profile nor have I looked for it. I am not repeating anything either of them says about the other nor anything the daughter tells me about. To be fair to both they are both honest and both repeat the same story from different veiw points in a way that anyone being calm can imagine the other side.

 

I think I am just going to keep my distance. Let them sort it out. I shall still see him as a friend listen and be there but not allow any situations that could lead to anything until after he has filed. Then see where we stand. I think I have been overthinking everything and getting my knickers in a twist. As has been said keep it simple and keep to the point. Will have to keep telling myself that!